Sony has officially extended its tax on gamers who buy secondhand PlayStation titles, confirming that all future Sony games with network functionality will be mediated through an online pass system. The company told Destructoid that the PSN Pass system will be incorporated into all upcoming Sony Computer Entertainment PS3 games …
And what happens if your PS3 dies ?
Madness... and will backfire on Sony mark my words. What happens when I buy a new PS3 or I want to take the game into the office where I have a second PS3 ?
And they wonder why people pirate games and try to get round them.
Same as always
You download off your download list in Playstation Store.
Another good reason not to get a PS3
Yet another attempt by Sony to screw its customers.
Alternatives no better
Xbox owners have a similar system and also have to pay for Live.
Nintendos online - sorry it is useless and a nightmare to use.
PCs not sure, haven't played any online multiplayer on them, nor traded.
The money would be going back to PS and used for the multiplayer servers.
Pay for Xbox Live?
Have a joke for online with the Wii?
There's basically no resale value on PC games - for all intents and purposes, once you've bought a PC game you can never resell it; the consoles have traditionally relied on "untweakable" hardware and physical disks as copy protection - on the PC it's been the wild west since, well, before there were IBM compatible PCs (think every generation of "personal computer" since the Beeb).
Circumventing copy-protection systems on the PC has been there since the get go so the protection systems have been getting more and more shirty forever (Starforce comes to mind - sack of cak that was).
So, the advantages of PC gaming are that the games cost less in the first place and (MMOs excepted) there's no additional fee to play online - some are even "free to buy", like Team Fortress 2 and rely on micro-transactions after the fact to fund the game (moar hatz).
The downside is that there's no resale market for PC games.
All new Sony published PS3 games
You haven't made that particularly clear.
Was looking forward to Uncharted 3, guess I won't be buying it now. As far as I am aware, the second hand market is not illegal and sony have no right in restricting the functionality of their products based on whether the user is the original purchaser or not.
Quite likely to be one of the best games this year, I will be buying on release.
As to second hand, yes you can use it all you like on single player.
As to rights - I work in software developement and the transfer rights on a lot is a lot stricter than that of a game.
You seriously wouldn't buy Uncharted 3 because someone that isn't you would have to buy multiplayer access if you sold it on?
No, the second hand market is abused by the likes of Game, CEX and HMV to make profits without those pesky publishers getting any more money than that original sale. This move isn't banning the second hand market, it's simply upping the cost of second hand titles... or, potentially, dropping the price you pay at the shop since demand for them will be lower as the cheapskates balk at the extra costs. Which I never understood anyway since the price of recently released second hand games tend to be close to the price of a brand new title anyway and the packrat in me won't sell titles back for store credit.
This is only affecting online multi-play... which isn't so big a deal since single or local multiplayer will still work. Besides, console gamers can't provide their own private servers and have to use the platform holders middleman software and public servers and once those are closed down, online multiplaying of those titles will go with them.
The key thing is ensuring the publisher gets a slice of the pie so they can keep paying studios to pump out titles.
They do have the right to restrict access to their gaming network however they see fit :o/
Good news for me!
This means that the second hand prices will plummet. Excellent news for me as I have no interest in multiplayer will be able to get the single player campaign for next to nothing.
Except at Game
More than new and was there an online pass?
Funny really the last S/H PS3 game I bought was the first game in the series which had the first online pass.
£10 for a launch game - was entertaining and more fun than its sequel. Part 3 though - that is good as well.
I don't blame them
When you look at the gouging Game and co do on second hand games, it seems a little unfair that the developers are not getting a cut. I saw R3 second hand for £4 more at a high street shop (HMV or Game) than I paid at a supermarket day after release.
If I paid a decent amount S/H eg £15 I would not begrudge paying this, provided it is not a lot (around £5 I suppose).
That said I do tend to buy new and keep, only selling games which are really poor.
I went to a lot of effort to obtain the US only Uncharted 3 demo, as before this will not effect me.
The online pass is per PS3 and can be redownloaded per account so if you lose your PS3 or have more than 1 you can reuse it.
lol, wonder what this does re rentals from say lovefilm lol
Anyway give up on the consoles and get Onlive on your PC instead. Most new games aren't worth more than a couple of hours game play anyway. *Goes back to working and muttering until home time so as to play more nuclear dawn and buildcraft.*
Hahahaa Sony ... twunt
Was going to buy my kid a PS3 ... not anymore!!!!
Denying them the Sackboy
That is child cruelty.
(Parent with 3 LBP loving children)
Yeah, buy them a 360 instead, where you'll run into the same problem. Or you could buy them a Wii, which barely has an online presence to speak of.
Alternatives have no Sackboys
That is a huge reason to get a PS3 for children LBP series is possibly one of the best games around for 8 to 13 year olds.
I did a survey among two young gamers about their favourite game and LBP came top - even over Super Mario Galaxy.
Despite all the Sony bashing...
....this has been going on for quite some time, and it isn't a Sony invention. I've got a PS3 and an a Xbox 360 and I've run into far more games that use an online pass system on the Xbox 360 than I have for the PS3.
Was for DLC content not online multiplay though.
Doesn't this just promote piracy?
I mean, if you're a pirate you can't normally play games on the net because of some version difference or because your console is detected as being modchipped etc.
So, think of it from some young kid who occasionally buys a game new but buys a lot of his games used. All of a sudden he can't play most of his games online. (yes, I know this isn't retroactive to old used games, just spitballing here)
He looks at the pirate option as a lot more enticing, after all if his legally purchased games give him the exact same experience as a pirates then why not just pirate? After all it costs less and he's not going to lose any functionality.
@Robert Long 1
Yeah - exactly.... becuase Vauxhall, Ford, Volvo and others all get a cut when you sell your car to someone else ... Oh wait, that's wrong isn't it
Let me try that again, Barrat's, Wimpy, Cala homes etc all get a cut when you sell your house ... nah, that's wrong too.
One last try, Nikon, Canon, Panasonic, Sony etc all get a cut from the 2nd hand camera market ... nope - still not working.
Same as before
These items are not using any infrastructure from the builders/manufactures, but in fact require spares and supplies.
I am the third owner of my car and I still buy parts from the dealer (with a trade club card).
You buy parts from the dealer?
You made of money?
Dealer - yes I do
It is cheaper and the bits last longer.
Cam cover gaskets - all non genuine leak - genuine don't.
Under £40 for 40 litres of semi synthetic oil of a decent brand. (Fuchs I think).
Good for Sony
Personally I'm really sick of the second hand game market. Just a couple of days ago I brought a nice fresh copy of Gears 3 in game for 39.99 only for the spotty oik to tell me I could have a second hand one for 37.99.
The thing is, I'd rather most of the money went to the company who made the game so maybe they might invest some of it in making something else I'd like to play, rather than going into the pocket of a money grabbing leech of an organization.
See my post about Resistance 3
£38 S/H £34 new
Game are a bunch of thieving gits when it comes to second hand game prices.
Oh and no midnight opening for Uncharted 3, as I said to them "So might as well get it from Tescos or Sainsburies".
What's wrong with that?
What's wrong with that exactly? It's not like Game will have stolen the second hand copy back is it? As others have said, if you buy a car and sell it on, the dealership doesn't get a cut. However if you give it back to the dealer - new but registered - they can't sell it as new anymore, they have to absorb a hit on their profits for the sale. If you sell it back to the dealer - used but practically new - they'll make a bit more as they charge you for the use you've had, and then sell it for a little less than a brand new one. This is exactly what Game do, and they're within their rights to do it.
As for the publishers deserving an extra something back, their part of the bargain is to provide an online space for each copy of the game, for as long as there is decent support for it. If the original owner sells their copy, they can't play anymore, and so the online space for that game transfers to the new owner. It's still one space, per game, and still the same number of games in circulation.
Frankly I'll stop buying stuff for either of my PS3s, plenty of content is impossible to copy between systems, even if you 'officially' redownload it from the PSN store. While xbox might be doing the same thing for certain games, its not policy yet so until it is, they will get my gaming dollars.
So don't buy second hand from game then - there are plenty other second hand game retailers.
Game price gouge - just ignore them
Actually there will be multiple profiles, they are not deleted when the game is sold on, this does need storage.
As to S/H cheap off Ebay - why worry about the pass?
S/H from Game - aghhh!
Dollars - the UK market is a bit different to the US
Stupid and short-sighted
Currently, you can buy a brand new game, play it, get bored of it, part-ex it for a shiny new game, rinse and repeat.
Under Sony's brave new world, you buy a new game, play it, get bored of it, it has no residual value so you throw it away, you don't part-ex for a new game and Sony lose a sale. They don't make an additional sale to the second hand gamer and they miss the opportunity to sell downloadable content to two customers.
What Sony fail to realise is that the second hand games market is actually good for them.
I for one see an upside
It will stop all of the PS3 fanboy gloating about their "free" PSN.
Happens on Xbox as well
And we only use free PSN when provoked.
I can't really see a problem with this. It happens all the time with PC games that are bought second hand. Some require you to register the keys, and if thats done nobody else can play the game online even with a valid key because its already registered to somebody else. It was bound to happen sooner or later.
good. hopefully this will kill the 2nd hand games market. The prices are stupidly high for a 2nd hand product.
Only from Game ect
Not elsewhere - got Resistance Fall of Man £10 from Ebay, R2 was £12 from Argos.
Bargains are where you want to look.
Older games & multiplayer, are people still playing?
I see theres a lot of people commenting here who actually have no idea what they are talking about.
First off, the online pass is linked to your psn account, not your console, so if you buy a new console, you can simply log into your old account and download the pass again at no extra charge.
And secondly this is done to try and get some revenue back off there games as games companys are losing a lot of money off second hand sales, if you want someone to blame for this it's shops like blockbuster.
The fact that this system is slowly working it's way onto 360 titles is worrying though, i mean your paying for the online features pretty much in advance. It's understandable from sonys stance, microsoft seem to be using it as a platform to make themselves more filty rich though.
In respect of second hand games, There has to be a reasonable price difference for me to consider a used item, £2 wouldn't cut it and in the past the spotty oik in Game has been =told they are having a tin bath.
I guess when the sales drop Fony will be screaming about piracy being the cause rather than the removal of the legitimate right to sell on property that you have paid for. Another reason the Fony products DONT get any consideration in this household. In light of their repeated attacks on our fair and legitimate use, we vote with our wallets, others should do likewise - nothing focuses a group of shareholders like falling sales figures.
and another reason
Not to buy a PS3 no matter how
Nothing new surely.
Multi Play DVD's which have a digital copy for your portable device have a one time code. Get one of these second hand, you have to hope that the person selling it hasn't already got his digital copy, because if he has, you don't get yours.
Don't have an issue with this, running and hosting an online service costs the publisher money. Currently buyers of second hand copies of games are enjoying that service at no cost, this is not a great business model for the developer. If you accept that the second hand game market is here to stay then moves like this are inevitable, the purchaser of a used game can obviously enjoy the offline experience and then has the choice of paying for online if they wish.
First they bring out DLC (means they don't have to finish making the game before they can sell it - plus it's a great way to charge for bug fixes). And of course DLC ain't transferable so if you sell on your game it's useless to you and the buyer has to buy it too.
Now they nobble their online play. It's Sony for now but they'll all do it.
How long before they start scamming us with "activation fees" or some other BS way to destroy the second hand market even more?
That's how the PC gaming market (with the odd exception like Egosoft) has worked for years... now that consoles are basically PCs (they have HDDs and connect to the internet) it's not entirely surprising that the consoles are coming in-line with the PC world of DRM.
There IS no second-hand market for PC games ... expect no different for consoles in the long run (though will they bring the price of console games down in-line with PC games - I doubt it).
Re Next Step
Bug fixes MAY be in DLC but I have never paid for a bug fix. Only paid for DLC I have seen are as follows.
Most bug fixes come automatically and always free
I am ignoring XMB backgrounds and your piccy as they are not in game.
Playstation are imposing this online pass system to all their published games.
Microsoft do not include online passes to their games. E.G Gears of War 3 recently released without a pass required.
People need to stop making out like they are being "double taxed" by Microsoft because of live + these passes, it is NOT microsoft who make you buy an online pass for certain games it's the publishers, EA are a prime example with their FIFA games.
To my knowledge no microsoft game requires an online pass to play.
AFAIK Sony published, not others.
Will MS do it?
That I do not know.
You're missing the point
XBox Live Subscription *is* the Pass.
See how many games you can play online without XBL. AFAIK none.
To add injury to insult almost all on-line multi-user games are hosted on your own XBox along with the cost of bandwidth to support the game. So MS do not even provide dedicated servers (except for GOW3).
MS offer a glorified matchmaking service and charge you a premium for the service. There is no alternative so no competition.
To make things worse XBL is user based not machine based.
So if four of your kids want to play (say) SF4 online then four separate live accounts need to be paid for.
Even though they can only play one at a time so there is no extra cost network or hardware wise.Even the Family pack is a mockery. XBL should be machine based.
e.g. 1 user x 1 hour per day : Cost $60 per year.
2 users x 30 minutes per day = 1 hour : Cost $120 per year.
Why the price differential given the same usage?
As for this ridiculous myth of covering the cost of Hosting that's a decision MS made. They could have easily allowed a PC Server model such as Quake/Unreal/HL Servers being hosted by whomever desired it when they desired it. Alternatively if the games are peer-hosted then a Server is not even necessary.
As a monopoly they can charge what they like on their own terms.
All this means is that second hand prices will have to drop by the cost of the online pass?
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