A Dutch court has warmed the hearts of Apple's patent Nazis, issuing a preliminary injunction against the sale of three Samsung Android phones: the Galaxy S, the Galaxy S II, and the Ace. As noticed by the ubiquitous Florian Mueller, the injunction is due to take affect in the middle of October, but it only applies to certain EU …
F*** off Apple
Name me one thing that Apple didn't copy from somebody else. I am not talking about the legal side of it, no arguments about xerox etc I know they have licensed things from other companies (usually when forced) I just want to know what Apple have ever come up with first and on their own merit. I can't think of a single thing. What they are good at is nicely packaging the work of others.
Wherever they can get away with it Apple will quite happily steal anothers work and pass it off as their own. When they get caught out they pay the fine but they hardly ever approach a company and say 'we like that, can we license it'.
In St Jobs own words Good artists copy great artists steal
And in Krytens words an apt description of the company known as Apple:
a disgusting, pus-filled bubo who has all the wit, charm and self-possession of an Alsatian dog after a head-swap operation
@EyeCU: overstating your case
I think that in any argument like this, the concept of an invention becomes so debatable that you end up thinking nobody invented anything at any point.
For example, it's fact that Apple designed the Firewire port. But that's clearly just a development of the SCSI line of thought. Though on the other side, USB conceptually looks a lot like ADB, so should we award Apple credit for that?
How about the canvas tag? OpenCL? Pull-down menus? The modern laptop form? The Clang compiler front end? The scroll wheel?
And Apple should design and create their own hardware instead of sourcing it out cheap and then charging outrageous amounts for it. Well, I guess that's what you pay for something being "pretty" and "cool". Look back at Apple's history, they ALWAYS charge at LEAST a 33% premium for "their" product. You know, at least when Apple started, they had good, well made products and actually were creative. Now, they just hobble existing tech together, make it look smooth, and color it white, and then call it innovative. I'm going to create a tablet computer that has lights around the irregular edge and call it innovative. Apple innovates like I digest, they take one thing in, and then pop something different out. About the same quality too. Except I flush what I do.
> For example, it's fact that Apple designed the Firewire port.
FireWire is Apple's implementation of (what was then) P1394. 1394 came from a multitude of sources; it's not Apple's invention, although they were a significant part of the WG, and drove much of the innovation.
Had Sony not been such utter dicks about how they marketed stuff, we might well have been calling it i.Link now. But that's Sony for you...
 I was working for Sony at the time, and was tasked with trying to find appropriate uses for i.Link. But I wasn't allowed to let on that i.Link was 1394 - they wanted it seen as a Sony proprietary technology, even though it wasn't :-(
Firewire - already answered by somebody else. Thanks
Canvas - a different software method to do something that is already done differently elsewhere (SVG, which most people wanted to be developed further but Apple wanted their own proprietary version and I know that isn't entirely correct but its close enough) so that's a no. Not to mention they patented it and wanted license fees until W3C said if they did that they wouldn't include it in the html5 spec and so they backed down on the fees, but kept the patent. BAD APPLE, software patents are BAD.
Open CL - Apple own the trademark and nothing else. AMD, IBM, Intel, and Nvidia worked together to create it as Apple couldn't do it on their own.
Pull down menus - As first seen on the original Xerox PARC GUI (You know the one that Apple liked so much they asked if they could use it)
The modern laptop form - are you serious? Try Compaq with the SLT/286 (1988) or if that isn't quite close enough to a modern laptop try the NEC Ultralite (1989). The first Mac portable was in September 1989 AFTER the other two.
Clang - Sponsored by Apple, created by the community but given Apples heavy involvement I will give you that one. it's nothing but a front end and that's what Apple are good at, putting a new covering over other peoples work.
The scroll wheel - Prepare yourself for a shock, created by MICROSOFT in 1993
1 out of 7 and even the 1 is debatable, oh dear. try harder next time.
You're all good but for the pull down menus. Apple absconded with it. XRX took them to court. WHY XRX woke up one day and fond GET THIS: APPLE WAS SUING MS OVER MS TAKING "APPLE'S" IP. BUT WAIT IT WAS XRX. APPLE HAD STOLEN IT FROM XRX!!! XRX was a tech Co. and (NOT like GATES FOLKS, ATTY'S) Courts indicated XRX had let the statute of limitations expire on Apple.
DO YOU SEE. APPLE STEALS THEN says "IT'S MINE"
ALSO COURTS WERn'T so patent ( ip) hip then.So listen to St. Steve talk here on youtube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nK7TQVFSA1Y
Apples culture's die is cast. APPLE isn't ashamed to take another's idea.
Apple designed the IEEE 1394 port with the help of several other companies.
ADB was NOT hot-swappable and too slow to support anything past a simple graphics tablet.
And laptop form? Sorry, Toshiba beat them to that by four years.
Pull down menus? QuickTab by about two years.
Canvas Tags? Sorry again, that was W3C.
Scroll wheel? Oh, that was Kensington.
OpenCL? Well, Apple did get the ball rolling on that one, but again, a LARGE GROUP was involved in it actually being made.
And the CCFE? Wow, really reaching there.
Know before you speak. Spouting off incorrect "facts" that aren't actually facts is quite close to propaganda.
The Job's a good un!
It is actually quite a good result for Samsung. The Galaxy Tab running Android 3.0 does not have the offending photo viewing interface, only the phones running Android 2.3. The problem with the phones can be fixed by a software update.
The lawyer for Samsung (Bas Berghuis van Woortman) made the point that most consumer electronics are shipped just-in-time to distribution centres in the Netherlands. So the number of the offending phones shipped to the Netherlands is quite small and hence applying the software updates to the phones already in the Netherlands will not take long. The planned launch date should not be affected.
The important point of the ruling is that all the other 'look and feel' claims by Apple, (supported by the doctored photos) have been thrown out by court, for both the Galaxy Tab and the phones.
My Palm TX almost does everything the Apple patent covers, so no need for Kubrick in here. Maybe there is a program for Palm out there that covers the rest. Nice of the Empire of Evil to keep the description vague and generic.
You know, I just thought about it, pulled out my own TX and WHO WOULD OF GUESSED?!?! The icons for the programs are ROUNDED!!! The device is ROUNDED!! There's a button in the middle bottom of the device!! HP needs to sue Apple now for being a TX patent troll. I think Apple shouldn't have hired all those lawyers from Rambus.
not all Europe, just a few countries
as Florian Mueller says on his blog, the ruling only applies in Germany, Ireland, Sweden, Switzerland, UK and Netherlands.
It does not apply in Austria, Belgium, Czech Republic, Estonia, Greece, Iceland, Italy, Latvia, Lithuania, Portugal, Romania, Slovenia, Slovakia, and Spain because in those countries Apple has abandoned the patent registration process mid-way and it lapsed.
quote from INPADOC LEGAL status: EP 2059868 (A2) for those countries:
LAPSED BECAUSE OF FAILURE TO SUBMIT A TRANSLATION OF THE DESCRIPTION OR TO PAY THE FEE WITHIN THE PRESCRIBED TIME-LIMIT
That's very bad news :-(
> as Florian Mueller says on his blog, the ruling only applies in Germany, Ireland,
> Sweden, Switzerland, UK and Netherlands.
Crap. Seeing as Florian is always wrong, that's real bad news for Europe...
I find it strange that any court within one EU member state can order a ban throughout all member states, but, I'm no legal expert, so maybe they can.
I'd be more surprised the any court anywhere in the EU could tell Switzerland what to do.
Is it too late to ask for a translation into English?
When you cannot innovate, litigate!
apple suing over everything rectangular still... over gloss and rounded corners.. to any court who has the time to listen..
Some where across the internet apple fanboys pleasure themselves to this bs.
It really shows how draconian the patent & court systems are.
It shows how afraid of competition and unamerican apple has become.
Apple is trying to rewrite history if it thinks its the first to create a tablet or smartphone with a touchscreen. When you cannot innovate, just litigate. sue the competition, deny the consumer a better product, for as long as you can.
is this more about Android?
This looks more like Apple doesn't like the competition. I do not think this is about Samsung, It's about Android and it's new dominance in the mobile phone market.
I just rememeber when
Apple and Microsoft played silly buggers over mouse driven GUI interfaces. Xerox kicked in and said behave or we will sue the Sh1t out of you both. They behaved.
Please let there be a 'Xerox' in this field too. It is needed to ensure the consumer is protected from the anal antics of the major players
Talk about screwing the pooch and shooting ejecta...
No, apple, you not only screwed the pooch, you emerged from the other side of the pooch's mouth, and fired your wad everywhere. If an iphone existed in 2008 or 2009 for Sprint, I might have bought one. But, your bullying attitude, damaging Samsung and other tablet makers is PISSING ME OFF. NO iphone for me, EVER.
apple, not only is your firey wad from behind emerging from the pooch mouth, the force is ejecting the dog's blood toward the crowd and passersby.
Maybe, what Samsung should do is support manufacturers who make HIGHLY COMMODITIZED components and parts so people can construct their OWN smartphones and tablets. Then, suddenly, 25,000 or more variations will exist, and be the oil that loosens apple's grip off the virtual loin of any company trying to sell tablets that don't trap people in a walled garden.
Samsung and others may not be angels, but they DAMNED SURE deserve to play on a field where consumers WANT the products and where companies aren't barring their users from escaping the garden.
RE "Talk about screwing the pooch and shooting ejecta."
I say old chap, steady on with those similes. I was eating a sandwich whilst reading this thread - oh god I've got to go.......
Don't the jury know....
...that if an item can't be purchase legally, it will create black market?
Only one problem with that...
... no jury was involved in this. It was effectively a Judge in chambers-like affair. The European courts are markedly different to UK or US courts in this respect.
Aside from being obvious
So aside from being unpatentably obvious, and easily by-passed by making the image viewer an 'optional' downloaded component (no longer a device, and unpatentable as mere software), you could actually get round this patent by making the thumbnails scroll horizontally with a vertical swipe to next/previous picture. How dismal
Hey Samsung! Here's your new ad campaign!
"Our phones are so good, the competition would rather fight than compete!"
Or how about..........
......The Galaxy S II: Sued by Apple, built by Samsung - Your quality guarantee.
I really like Samsung and hope they can pull it out of the fire, but honestly,
I do feel the device is VERY look-alike externally. I went to Best Buy last weekend and sort of was confused, except there was no middle-bottom dimple button.
Samsung should add ports or more ports, slots, and maybe something non-symmetrical just to further erode the onslaught that is just wasting Samsungs money fighting litigation.
Windows, doors, office partitions, tin cans, cardboard boxes, and filing cabinets are tough to innovate to extremes without losing money. But, computers, phones, toothbrushes, combs, and numerous other things simply by ergonomics, economics, attractiveness will have not much wiggle room.
RE: but honestly
I wen to Best Buy this morning and look at the TV, they all look a like...Sony, Samsung, LG...and they all had a moving images on them....so confusing....and all I wanted is a Sony TV...when does the madness stop......
I got Galaxy Tab cause I didn't want iPad, not because it look like iPad.
(No i didn't get that TV, i'll just stick to the internet Pron....I know they all look the same but oh well).
LOL! So, I taket it that the 4 thumbs DOWN means I SHOULD have said...
"SAMSUNG, maintain course and KEEP ON cloning the iPad".
That'd be counter to common sense. The Galaxy Tab II DID confuse me, but I found if FUNNY. I cannot afford to buy either, and personally, I don't want to be forced to use Wi-Fi, yet I am loath to sign up for another 2-year contract, so my confusion doesn't impact either company, as neither is getting my money.
Now, to me, the Lenovo tablet looks really nice because it is ThinkPad-ish and has accessory ports that *might* come in handy. I don't want to be compelled to move my data via bluetooth. Some don't mind. Lenovo found it economically sound to do so, and some others did, too. That the Galaxy tab 2 looks like an iPad is a calculated risk Samsung took, and, seemingly, it is not ultimately the big worry anymore. It now seems the SOFTWARE (which seemingly will be rectified by software changes) is the issue. But, depending on the court, it very EASILY could have been deemed that the Tab II is sufficiently close enough to confuse.
However, at $499 a pop, only a dolt would buy either tablet and think it was the other's tablet being bought. The sales rep would be discussing warranties, benefits, accessories, air charge rates, user interfaces, training on offer, and so many more details as to make it clear to a Samsung consumer that is was not an iPad. And, honestly, HOW MANY iPad pursuers or Apple fans and consumers would by something that LOOKED like an iPad but WASN'T an iPad when the purchaser clearly said s/he is intent on having an iPad?
Those recent quakes...
All those east coast temblors and minor quakes were caused by Steve Jobs' jumping up and down and throwing fit that some of his USA-annointed patents were tossed out in parts of Europe due to apple's failure to submit translations or pay required fees... Amazing. Going thru ALL the trouble to be 'better' or 'different' and fracking up on the paperwork.
I guess the 2 thubms down suggests I should have suggested that
I should have waited a day so say it was really the effect of his being handed his resignation letter, and not so much the patents...
Now that Apple...
...have been slapped down for this 'look and feel' nonsense I hope Meizu will finally release their M9 in Europe. Top end android phone with the kind of low price you'd expect from an obscure Chinese manufacturer. It does look a little too much like an iphone 4 for comfort though.
F**k off apple
I have patented the useage of the * to obfuscate swear words, please pay me my royalties :)
Seriously this patent BS is getting worse by the day, how on earth can you patent the bleedingly f**king obvious?
Can I still slide my physical photo print outs from side to side?
I just can't believe you can patent the sliding of a picture from one side of a screen to the other. I assume that the left to right wipe on PowerPoint and other slide presentations is also banned now?
APPLE YOU ARE PATHETIC AND THE MORE YOU DO THIS KIND OF STUFF THE MORE YOU WILL BE SEEN AS SUCH - I was going to buy a Mac later this year but if you keep this up you can forget it....
And, what about the snappy-bounciness/bounce-back?
That exists in Linux... I forgot what app it is, but I use it subconsciously out of fun... Oh, yeh, in Compiz, I used it in one of the Metisse effects, too. Way the hell back in 2007, IIRC.
How the hell can a company's legal team expect to get away with this crap?
In Compiz and Metisse, once you have the effect settings just so, then, IIRC, right-clicking or a shortcut key and a right click with dragging off center makes the window snap and bounce. AFAIAC, a file manager window in the background snapping is not different than the photo or the app containing the photo. The judge seeing this case should be informed of the prior art existence of this effect.
Once more... with the link to the Youtube clip.
So if this is the patent that has been enforced. http://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/description?CC=EP&NR=2059868A2&KC=A2&FT=D&date=20090520&DB=&locale=en_EP
What's that portable glass panel displaying thumbnail images which are then manipulated by a computer program with hand gestures doing at 00:37 in this YouTube clip? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NwVBzx0LMNQ
Samsung really must get some better lawyers.
There's already a small update underway that will kill this patent suit anyway, so no major issues here. I have now actually taken it upon myself to start a crusade against all Apple products (no, even more then I've done up till now). I'm calling for a general boycott of any and all Apple products, as for anything they make, there's a competing product that's not made by these semi-scientologists.
Please people, leave all that Apple crap to the fanbois and rejoin us in the civilized world, no good will ever come from using Apple products.
"wherein the different photographic image is selected in accordance with a scrolling gesture comprising a substantially horizontal movement of user contact with the touch screen display"
(Which, while only a tiny extract, appears to be the crux of the patent).
So, albeit in a very specific context, that's basically scrolling, then.
If using a mouse, you'd be clicking and holding the button down, and moving the mouse to drag the display in one direction, but here what Apple have done is said is that if you use your finger on a touchscreen instead of using a mouse, and the displayed content is thumbnails, then THOU SHALT NOT SCROLL.
Patent law has gone feral.
Maybe the lawmakers have, also.
Patent Application <> Patent Specification
To see the granted claims go to page 40 of this PDF:
Watch more SF-movies!
Maybe the judge (and the patent office) should watch more SF-movies...
After watching Minority Report from 2002!!!! most of todays "modern" touch-screen manipulations would appear less "innovative":
And reacting this this, Samsung shares went up
You keep quoting Florian Mueller as if he meant something other than a self regarding individual with a propensity for being wrong
Is it just me,...
..or is anyone else so sick and tired of Apples arsy attitude, their over priced toys, the anal ill informed banter of fanboi zombies, and all the pointless trivia everyday on IT sites about apples legal nazi's - this company has no integrity, it's just a greedy, whiny, underhanded producer of 'style over content' gadgetry. I used to think they were ok (technically, they are) I would even have recommended them to aged or dull relatives (saves me having to explain the more complex Windows OS to them, and saves me having to attend for repairs when they do something stupid - I can say, soz, i don't know anything about them, and point them to a Mac shop :-)
I will never buy another apple product or provide support or advise.
total fruit based FAIL
Win for samsung
If this really is easily rectified through a software update, then samsung are the major winners in this case. The are getting masses of free publicity and apple are being made to look like petty bullies. The end result will be more sales for samsung and a tarnished image for apple.
If this really is easily *rectified* ..
Does 'Rectified' mean thoroughly shafted??
...I had my eye on a S2 when upgrade season rolls around, it's not quite yet, so hopefully this will be sorted quick sharp by a common sense judge (oxymoron I know). If not, then I know for certain that I won't be getting an iPhone, I can't abide the way that Apple conduct business, they never actually innovate any more, just stifle the innovators until they have caught up.
Could be a pyrrhic victory
If Samsung turn aound and says. "Apple, we will no longer manufacture your parts."
Scrolling is the same on Honeycomb I thought.
"The Galaxy Tab running Android 3.0 does not have the offending photo viewing interface"
I don't understand that. I've Android 2.3 on HTC Desire HD and Android 3.2 on Asus Transformer Tablet and the scrolling in the HTC gallery app seems identical to the Asus. (Also applies to V 3.0 and 3.1 which didn't change this AFAIK)
Whilst we are on the subject - I had 2 iphones before the HTC, 3G and 3GS (my wife and daughter now have them) and I don't miss them at all. There's nothing I could do on them, that I cannot do on the HTC, and the OS is stable and runs for weeks and weeks on end continously.
I remember also the Apple 3G crashing now and then. I was going to get the iPhone 4, but worked out that 2 years 3G service with internet access at 3GB/Month was much cheaper than buying the iPhone 4 as pay as you go!
There's plenty I CAN do with the HTC that I could not do with the Apple. View flash web sites, for example. Install what I want. Write my own programmes easily, and give then to my friends to install on thier android phones. The same applies to the Asus, versus an iPad.
The only phone I would currently consider now would be a Galaxy S2.
As for these software patents, well they are ridiculous, and I always beleved they were not allowed in Europe, especially such trivial ones as the one that Apple did succeed with.
Looking round the internet it appears that a lot of Apple fans have been upset by recent actions by Apple. I am sure they belived that Apple didn't need to take action against such trivial matters, and would continue to try and lead the market by innovation, rather than incrimination and bully boy tactics, and I would agree with them. Having no competition is no good for anyone, dedicated Apple users included.
Android 3.x maakt geen inbreuk
To quote from Webwereld.nl
"Android 3.x maakt geen inbreuk
De inbreuk geldt dus alleen voor Samsung's smartphones die Android 2.3 draaien. Android 3.x, dat op de tablet draait, maakt geen inbreuk."
Which translates approximately as:
Android 3.x does not infringe (the Apple patent)
The (patent) infringement is only relevent for Samsung's smartphones that run Android 2.3. Android 3.0, as used by the Galaxy Tab does not infringe the patent.
I've never been an Apple hater. Microsnot, OTOH ...
But I'm fast becoming one.
As others have said, where do Apple innovate? Clever design and great marketing, sure, but innovate? I don't see much.
Apple are starting to make Microsoft look good (and, which is really, really annoying to a MS hater, Bill Gates is a great philanthropist, damn him). Also I'm starting to think that the Samsung products must be miles better than the Apple competition. Time to go and buy one.
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