London rioters should 'loose all benefits' Amid angry calls for UK rioters to face plastic bullets, water cannon, the Army, a spell in the Army, jail or all of the above, comes this e-petition demanding that the feral youth of Britain be stripped of their state hand-outs. Or rather, it insists that convicted public disorder offenders "loose all benefits", which we …
You mean from social workers like Jake Davis's mother? Yeah, she did such a good job - not! Just make them "repay" their debt to society with a few years in a chaingang, then put them on probation terms of straight back to the chaingang if they re-offend in the following ten years after release. They can claen out London's sewers by hand.
Whilst I have no sympathy for these idiots, taking any benefits they receive (although primary school teachers earn wages) will only force them into committing crime, since they will be reduced to crime or starvation.
The idiots need to be punished, but I think we should leave that to the courts.
Because they have demonstrated a rational response: 6 moths for a bottle of water? 4 years for inciting riot (while the hook did it every day for years with no penalty) that had no discernible effects, while MPs simply walk away from stealing from public coffers via expenses? I think the example to the public has been set at the highest levels.
And it was not just the unemployed taking part, there were educated, employed people, joining in the frolics.
Excusing them? no not in the least, but with everything else that has been happening I find it difficult to condemn outright.
The more I think about it the greyer it gets.
(From a friend)
Also known as I Don't Care About The Consequences Just Make Those Baddies Go Away... a point for everything you spot on Twitter/ Facebook/ chat site of your choice.
1) Call in the Army
2) I'm so proud that racist thugs are patrolling the high street to 'defend the community'
3) Shut down the Internet
4) Shut down the mobile phone networks
5) Blame the mothers
6) Ban violent videos/ computer games
7) Ban gangsta rap (even though saying this proves you are old as gangsta rap now unfashionable with the yoot)
8) Have a curfew
9) Multiculturalism isn't working
10) At least everyone's stopped fussing about Murdoch and phone hacking
11) Let the Police use Rubber Bullets
12) Bring back National Service
13) Bring back the Birch
14) Bring back the Stocks
15) Bring back the Death Penalty
(burned down) HOUSE!
Fail yourself, because you missed the bit that says "I Don't Care About The Consequences Just Make Those Baddies Go Away"
Too many people are willing to say "Fuck Civil Liberties" as soon as any trouble breaks out and they're happy to come up with lists like that which will "solve" the problem.
The fact that what that will leave after may be *worse* doesn't seem to occur to them. (Remember ID cards et al? What if we had them now? Would the Rioters be carrying them? Should the Police stop *everyone* on the streets and check them for ID cards and arrest *anyone* who doesn't have one, even if you've just popped down to the shops, come back to find trouble has kicked off and you forgot to pick up yours??)
Well there is a fine line that got blurred this week. A protest can turn into a riot and then looting simply by taking a sensitive situation and throwing in some violent thugs.
When the protesters were kettled at the G20 last year it made me want them to fight the police. But instead they just let the police do what ever they liked. AT the same time actual rioters were smashing banks windows and the police were letting them.
People can't comprehend that police can chose to allow this stuff or chose to tackle it. Just because the looters get away with it does not mean the police could not cope and need more powers. People also can't comprehend that powers to tackle looters and rioters will be applied to protesters since effectively it's all degrees of the same thing.
As I was waiting for tonight's helicopter spotting (I live near the Blues ground in Birmingham which is on a slight rise and affords a 270 degree view of the city centre) I read this and deposited most of a mug on the (purchased and paid for) LCD.
As a housing association tenant, can I remind everyone that I have a legally binding tenancy agreement that has clauses covering antisocial behaviour but limited to immediate neighbours? Salford Housing managers appear to have forgotten about the law. See the BBC twit feed for 1733. We have housing officers reviewing CCTV footage. Since when did they become judge, jury and bailiff? Madness.
Seriously, as I'm addressing a group of puzzle solving challenge accepting types of higher than normal intelligence, PLEASE have a look at
http://www.equalitytrust.org.uk/
and cogitate.
Black helicopters because that is what you'll get if you let the tabloids dictate the response.
"We have housing officers reviewing CCTV footage. Since when did they become judge, jury and bailiff? Madness"
I dont disagree with your sentiments; however the contract you signed as a tenant is a civil one. If someone has broken their contract then they can evict you. Of course you can contest this in a court of law (as is your right)
5) Blame parents. Why not? Shouldn't they shoulder a decent proportion of the blame? Why was their 11-year old out at 3am?
8) Have a curfew. Would have helped, actually. As the police said, there were huge problems caused by people hanging around watching. Having a curfew doesn't mean those out are shot dead, you know.
9) Multiculturalism isn't working. I thought this was accepted knowledge now.
12) Bring back National Service. Why is this such a ridiculous idea? Compulsory education to 18, then for 18-21 you either are at university, in an apprenticeship, or join the army? While there you pick up qualifications, learn to actually show up for work and do things, and so on. Germany still has National Service, and their civil liberties seem fine.
"5) Blame parents. Why not?"
How many of the rioters are 11?
"8) Have a curfew. Would have helped, actually."
Right, so have a curfew where anyone on the street is an automatic suspect and is rounded up and arrested. Great for all those people trying to go about their lawful business without let or hindrance.
"9) Multiculturalism isn't working. I thought this was accepted knowledge now."
Only in the Daily Mail.
"12) Bring back National Service. Why is this such a ridiculous idea? [...] Germany still has National Service"
If you hadn't noticed (of course you hadn't or even bothered to check, you'd know that a) German National Service was only compulsory for men and b) They stopped it as of July 2011. Oh and c) German civil liberties *aren't* fine because they have restrictions on freedom of expression, data retention laws and monitoring of the senders and recipients of e-mails, phone calls and other electronic communications.
Still, judging from your comments, you probably think that that's a perfectly acceptable situation...
National service may well keep the kids off the streets and maybe even benefit a couple of them. It would, however, be a bad move for the forces. The UK operates a small, highly-trained, motivated professional volunteer force. Everyone there chose to be there.
If we were to dump tens of thousands of angry youths on the forces, they would have to come up with a lot of extra money and resources to deal with them. For many of them it would effectively be a prison camp. Good people would be taken from their real duties and forced to babysit people who don't want to be there. The days of needing cannon fodder in the UK forces are behind us and many of the conscripts would be totally unusuable for important duties; I wouldn't trust them with anything that needed doing well, not paperwork, not maintenance, not supply, certainly not combat - I can't think of a single role in the forces that I'd feel comfortable assigning an angry, surly conscript to; they'd be passed from pillar to post, nothing more than an extra burden on the forces. The UK armed forces are not prison wardens, teachers or babysitters for tens of thousands of people with no interest in it. It would sap resources and morale and at the end of it they'd just be dumped back onto the streets.
Agreed, national service in the old form of military duty would be a bad idea, but then it would be a much better idea to bring back chaingangs and make the scum work for local councils. The councils can then spend money that would have been spent on employing third-parties to tender to do other jobs that would have been off the table due to budget restrictions. And for all those that would say this would impact third-parties by taking away opportunities to bid for council business, it doesn't as more opportunities would be offered from the extra money available by not having to pay for the work done by the chaingangs.
I'd suggest a jailterm broken down into two phases - the first half you do good ol' hard-time, this is the punishment bit; then you go before a review board, and if you've behaved you get the next quarter of your sentence spent on training for a trade, the re-education part; then another review and if you pass you spend the last quarter on parole. Misbehave at any stage of the process and it's back to repeating the hard-time half of your sentence again. Rinse and repeat as necessary. And I really don't care if that means some stupid scum get to waste their whole lives in prison, it's probably cheaper than having them out on benefits and committing crimes anyway.
And to quash the usual and predictable leftie/Libtard squealing - I don't read the Daily Fail or watch Fox News.
Trust me, the army knows how to deal with angry youths. Its been doing that for a very long time. Its mostly about changing habit through the time honoured and accepted method of - keeping you so knackered that you have little energy left at the end of the day for rebellious though, let alone action. Before you know it, you are voluntarily polishing your mess tins for inspection.
Ok so I was a volunteer but there were guys in my platoon who were offered the Army or far less pleasant alternatives (by a magistrate I think). I don't think it was widespread, but he was from Manchester, who I think invented angry : )
But I am opinionated and from Scotland so WTF do I know eh ? actually since I'm from Scotland I could probably leave out the opinionated :)
Most will be aware of the Darwinian Award - idiots remove themselves from reproduction thereby improving the quality of the gene pool. I am in total favour of permanent riddance of these gangs that blight decent society.
Interviews with one of the rioters/looters showed an arrogant total disregard for society and that his parents would do nothing and at worst shout at him for 5 minutes. If arrested, he would get off with a caution for first offence or have an ASBO slapped on him. Big deal.
Should such an arsehole be allowed to reproduce? Will he at worst shout at his offspring for 5 minutes if his sprog in years to come went and beat someone up at a bus-stop? Bleeding hearts will accuse me of social engineering. Well, extreme circumstances require extreme solutions.
Actually you touch on a good point there, i know the human rights lobby will get up in arms on this one but im all up for serialization of REPEATED offenders, im not talk talking about slap on the wrist joe, im talking about billy boy who will not change, serialization would at least help stop innocent kids being brought up in a family who doesnt care and has no other intrest than sponging off the state and/or commiting crimes who by there own missfortune will more than likely end up doing the same or burning good peoples homes down.
Stop them reproducing will have the added effect of reducing the number of people being brought up in these circumstances there by helping to reduce crime rates from that one specific group and help keep the population in control, when i see "those" parents walking up the street shouting and swearing whilst slapping the arses of their 4 kids up the street i actually feel sick, but unless they give me their name an address i cant even report them to social, and the police cant do much unless their is proof of abuse
It will save us money, good children will be lesslikely to end up junky neds and perhaps we wouldnt have scenes like the last few nights in the future.
Impregnate all tracksuits and similar sports wear with a chemical than sterilises the wearer if they eat anything from Greggs while they're wearing it.
That way, the odd genuine sporty person will be OK, but the chavs could rut away to their hearts content without burdening the state with their flat headed offspring.
Hanging is *TOO* good for them. Lets bring back the stocks.
Those convicted get stocks erected in the immediate vicinity of their crime and are required to be strung up there, completely naked.
The government meanwhile sets up a rotten fruit stall nearby, the proceeds to go towards repairing their damage. The perpetrator meanwhile remains there from 9pm to 6am every night until they have fully repaid their debt to society, or until death.
I think the benefits should be loosed into a fund to compensate riot victims ;-)
In all serious though, while I really don't like paying for these scumbags' lives, I wonder whether the loss of benefits will mean they're even more likely to commit crimes. I suspect it's a more complex issue than the petitioners have realised.
Sherlock because he's not exactly needed to identify a lot of these rioters as they post their own photos on Twitface.
But if the only way they got them was to have to turn up for 10 hours a day 7 days a week starting at 8am, when they are usually still in bed, and do menial work in order to get their benefits then perhaps they will either get an interest in a real job or be too bloody knackered to be out on the streets causing problems.
"as we publish this from the Vulture Central insurrection-proof London bunker complex."
Nice.
Been trying to tell my fellow Merkins all morning that the Gun Lobby lies and that the (Western) Gun Culture is lazy and forgot to mention something: The reason 'self-defense' works is the law of Castle Doctrine (not available in the Washington, DC area), which removes uncertainty in self-defense. If I find an intruder in my living room at 3am, I can take whatever necessary steps to defend myself without further legal repercussions (excuse the pun please). In my case, that would be running like hell, because I don't own a gun. Nonetheless, there is no uncertainty in what I must do. The police have to assess, not me.
London merchants need Castle Doctrine, not guns. And after they have run like hell, the police have to handle it.
Quite apart from the spelling (and "loose" for "lose" is almost as prevalent as substituting "your" for "you're" or "could of" for "could have"), some London Councils are looking at evicting rioters from social housing.
http://www.southlondon-today.co.uk/news.cfm?id=29577&headline=%27If%20you%20riot%20in%20Southwark%20you%20risk%20losing%20your%20Southwark%20council%20flat%27
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