McKinnon battles renewed Obama-era extradition push Family and supporters of Gary McKinnon remain confident that their campaign against his extradition to the US will ultimately prove successful, despite the insistence of a senior Obama government law official that the alleged hacker ought to stand trial in the US. Eric Holder, the US Attorney General, vowed that the Obama …
No, not really. I recently discovered that I almost certainly have Asperger's too. It's a huge relief, I can tell you, finally understanding why everyone else is so weird. The unfortunate thing is that the real weirdos have been treating me as one for as long as I can remember. I've always felt different from the majority of people although, on the whole, as an adult I, more or less, pass muster as a slightly odd neurotypical and have a reasonable number of friends. The problem is that some people are highly attuned to the differences I do exhibit, take an instant dislike to me and, if at all possible, endeavour to make life difficult for me. This has been happening all my life and hasn't made for a uniformly happy existence. I've been mistreated by those in authority since nursery school, i.e. primary school, secondary school, university, employers, doctors, police and parts of the legal system. If this sounds like a sob-sob story, it is, I'll be honest.
I don't doubt that Gary has Asperger's and I'm sure that he's faced difficulties in life not too dissimilar to mine. I have also spent a considerable number of years working my way through the legal system in an attempt to put my life back together after it was destroyed by the criminal acts of others but I'm still not there yet. It's remarkable the lengths some people will go to and the risks that they will take in order not to admit fault even though it's clear that they will be exposed eventually, their lies will catch up with them and the end result even more damaging to their lives and those of others. In Gary's case, as in mine, he exposed the criminal incompetence of people charged with protecting something extremely valuable. They are desperately trying to pin the blame on Gary in order to detract attention from their own failings. Nothing more.
I would say Gary has certainly suffered enough; not just as a result of his own actions but as a result of the way he's been treated throughout life because of his differences. Extradition would be "cruel and unusual punishment" and his chances of a fair trial non-existent. He should've sent them an invoice for helping to harden their security and they should've offered to pay him not prosecute him.
For those referring to Asperger's as a mental condition, it's nothing of the sort. It's the result of an unusual brain architecture. People with Asperger's think differently from the majority of the population and it's a bloody good thing too. People with Asperger's are responsible for some of the greatest art, science and literature ever created. They should be identified, helped and encouraged to make the contributions to mankind their often brilliant brains were made for. Instead, they're singled out, bullied, humiliated, mistreated and forced to expend their energies just surviving day-to-day life rather than applying themselves to whatever they have a talent for. It's a shocking waste and a tragedy that so many people are ignorant of it. I knew nothing about it myself until a few weeks ago.
This paragraph of yours:
"For those referring to Asperger's as a mental condition, it's nothing of the sort. It's the result of an unusual brain architecture. People with Asperger's think differently from the majority of the population and it's a bloody good thing too. People with Asperger's are responsible for some of the greatest art, science and literature ever created. They should be identified, helped and encouraged to make the contributions to mankind their often brilliant brains were made for. Instead, they're singled out, bullied, humiliated, mistreated and forced to expend their energies just surviving day-to-day life rather than applying themselves to whatever they have a talent for. It's a shocking waste and a tragedy that so many people are ignorant of it. I knew nothing about it myself until a few weeks ago."
it so spot on there's not much I can add other than the general population don't get it that it's the 'anomalies' that truly advance the human race, without the likes of Einstein etc. we'd still be just be banging rocks together and living in caves.
The human race has a lot to thank the exceptional for and they need to help nurture their abilities to help everyone.
I don't profess to be exceptional, just different, and a lot of my energy is spent trying to 'fit in' and be one of 'you' instead of spent exploring new ideas etc., that's where we're let down.
Mckinnon is a test case so that America can feel free to extend its jurisdiction and extradite any web designer/ blogger/ hacker who does not fit in the American Global Picture'. Be very very clear you could next.
The inhumanity of the McKinnon case is obvious to anyone sane and knowledgeable enough to care. But the underlying problem is that as a treaty, it allows governments to evade the most basic legal protections citizens have by asserting blandly that very different legal systems are so similar that no injustice can arise. That is eminent twaddle.
McKinnon acted in the UK based on a lifetime in the UK. He assumes people are logical. They are not. He is being sacrificed to appease a 'special relationship' which apparently guarantees only that British citizens will be denied standards of justice and fairness which we take for granted. That treaty is unconscionable and must be amended. It would not take a major change, merely a requirement that the courts asess a prima facie case. Our government owes us that much if it has any respect for ancient British traditions of justice and fairness.
Gary McKinnon has severe mental illness on both sides of his family and his NHS records show that he was referred to a neurologist in 1983 and in 1994 as recorded in Professor Declan Murphy's report on his assessment of Gary McKinnon and as publicly stated during a public debate on Gary McKinnon in the House of Lords and as widely reported in the media.
We all know that America frequently executes vulnerable people with mental health issues and often shows scant compassion for them in their courts.
See this link via: Reprieve: Brain Damaged Man to be Excecuted on 17th May 2011 with drugs meant to cure him. http://bit.ly/ll4Ch4
Gary McKinnon must be tried in the U.K as is his right. He was arrested in March 2002 long before the 2003 extradition treaty with America was even written.
He was left on the internet for a further three and a half years after his arrest proving that the U.S and the U.K Governments did not consider him any threat whatsoever.
The delay was America's fault as they waited three and a half years before requesting Gary McKinnon's extradition from the U.K as by then the 2003 Extradition Treaty was being used requiring no evidence whatsoever of the alleged damage without which the alleged crime was not Extraditable.
American prosecutors frequently use a loophole of issuing superseding indictments in order to trawl back years in order to Extradite. In Gary's case the only change in the superseding indictment was withdrawing several American universities who came out publicly to say that Gary McKinnon had not caused any damage.
Thankfully this coalition government have promised to substantially change the 2003 Extradition Treaty with America. The unpopularity of America's relentless pursuit of Gary McKInnon will help to ensure that this will happen and the sooner the better
The GM case has become an echo chamber on the internet, with people shouting the same 100% wrongheaded 'facts' at one another to mutual applause.
I will simply reiterate - read the Jack of Kent blog about the GM case. It clears away all the fallacies that are being mentioned on this thread, and on countless others all over the internet.
I have read some of JoK's blogs on the matter. JoK is certainly a good self-publicist but I don't think he's totally infallible or that his legal opinion, qualified as it maybe, would necessarily hold in a court of law. The vagaries of the justice system are such that, well, you never know.
JoK changed his mind, it seems, deciding that McKinnon should be extradited and any mercy owing to his Asperger's applied in sentencing. However, McKinnon has had his life turned upside down for the best part of 10 years. If he is anything like me, then his legal troubles will essentially be the focus of his life meaning that it is exceeding difficult, if not impossible to apply himself to anything else in the mean time. His life is essentially on hold and he has effectively already "done" 10 years for his crime. People with Asperger's have great difficulty stopping one task and starting another. They also have difficulty in resuming whatever task they were engaged in when interrupted by another. In my case, I have had two major court cases in my life and every other aspect of my life essentially fell apart because my attention was focused on the cases and I couldn't put them out of my mind even when there was nothing to do in order to do other things.
I watched a video of McKinnon on YouTube being interviewed about his experiences so far. At one point he said that, as a result of his arrest, he stopped eating and washing properly. I recognised this immediately as a characteristic of Asperger's: one particularly issue takes precedence over everything else to the detriment of most other aspects of life. I would say that the prolongation of the extradition process is a breach of many of McKinnon's Human Rights but particularly, I would say, Article 3. McKinnon has already been subject to torture defines as "inhumane or degrading treatment". It's self-evidently inhumane to treat someone with Asperger's in the way McKinnon has already been treated because of the effect it has had on his life. We then have Article 5 which provides for "the right of prompt access to judicial proceedings to determine the legality of one's arrest or detention and to trial within a reasonable time or release pending trial, and the right to compensation in the case of arrest or detention in violation of this article."
All of this is in addition to the one-sided nature of the extradition treaty, the trumped up damages claimed, the excessive tariffs for the alleged crimes and the apparent refusal of the US to put any assurances regarding McKinnon's treatment in writing.
...for your response.
It is perfectly true that JoK's analysis is just his and may not be accepted in a court of law, suffice to say that judges in multiple courts all agree that he should be extradited. JoK merely analysed the publicly available documents to find out why the courts found as they did.
I obviously do not know about your court cases or the outcome, but I will say that >anybody< facing two court cases will find them all consuming and very stressful. People with Asperger's do not have a monopoly on stress or fear.
Moreover, it is not an infringement on anybody's human rights to have to account for themselves in court when there is evidence they have committed a serious crime, guilty or not. This is not inhuman or degrading. If they have 'mental issues' (usually much more serious than Asperger's) then they should be taken into account, but in no way do we just let people off. The length of time this matter has been going on reflects the number of appeals GM has made, typically with shoddy legal arguments. Had the prosecution been the party messing around, I would grant your argument about the length of time.
If you had read JoK, you would know that the extradition treaty >was< one sided, but it has since been ratified by America and is thus no longer one sided, and in any case GM could have been extradited under the old treaty had it still been in place.
Of course anyone facing court cases experiences stress. In the case of someone with Asperger's, however, the effect is far more debilitating than on the typical person. I am afraid that you will just have to accept that and, if you can't, then it's fortunate for McKinnon that you won't have anything to do with his case.
You may have missed the part in my post about timely justice(see Article 6 ECHR). McKinnon committed his crimes before the US extradition treaty came into force, 2000 and 2001 I think. The US didn't start extradition proceeding until 2004 and didn't ratify the treaty until 2006. If 70 years for making the US look foolish isn't inhuman then perhaps the problem here is that you're actually one of the ETs Gary threatens to expose and you're posting here as an agent provocateur?
How many times does it have to be explained to you that Asperger's isn't a "mental issue"?
McKinnon commits crimes in 2000-2001; the US don't apply for extradition until 2004; they don't ratify the treaty until 2006 and you claim McKinnon is somehow responsible for "messing around" and delaying things? Come off it.
You seem to doubt that I've read JoK? Are you serious? I've read what I wish to read of it and more than sufficient to comment.
My central point, which you have failed to pick up, is that regardless of what conditions anybody has, it doesn't mean due process stops. If someone with, for example, schizophrenia commits a crime, it must be terrifying for them to have to face justice if they believe those around them are trying to harm them. We don't stop them facing justice because of that - we account for it.
I meant 'mental issues' in a broad sense, meaning all 'brain related problems/differences that a court must allow for', which would include Asperger's.
We will have to disagree about whether he has received timely justice. Every block in this case has been placed by GM, such as the refusal of a plea bargain (to a crime he admitted), or the discovery of Asperger's in 2008 and his legal team deciding it is somehow relevant to him being extradited or not (courts disagree).
He won't get 70 years either. All just rubbish.
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I think I did pick it up and deal with it. A person's mental state goes to the appropriateness or otherwise of them facing a court in the first place. In the severest cases, there is no court case and the person is committed to a secure mental health unit. The argument is whether or not McKinnon is fit to face "due process" in the US or if it would be "cruel and unusual punishment" which is my central point but seems to have eluded you.
Your broad sense is simply too broad I'm afraid but amply demonstrates that you have little appreciation of Asperger's and its effect on the fitness of a defendant to plead.
McKinnon is on the record as saying that he would have accepted the verbal plea bargain had the US been prepared to put it in writing. They refused, leaving him with little choice but to reject it. Now, I don't know about you but, unfortunately, I would not be prepared to accept someone's word that such a plea bargain was available if they would not commit it to writing in good faith before getting on a plane to a country where life means life. In any case, I fear that the agreement would not have been worth the paper it was written on.
I repeat, he had no guarantee that he would not find himself facing the full gamut of the charges and a potential 70 years in prison which is, of course, effectively life.
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