back to article Memo to iPad mimics: No one wants a $799 knockoff

There's a growing list of would-be iPad killers born each month, but none yet to grok the central message that made Android beat the iPhone: cheapness. Motorola and others may have all sorts of reasons for why their tablets are superior to Apple's iPad, but until the price tag is significantly lower, their devices are going to …

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      1. Gordon 10

        Two words

        Advent Vega - £250 very very comparable functionally to an iPad.

        Also note that there is a huge difference between the hardware cost of an iPad compared to retail. Apple ARE making a very good markup on each one.

        I do tend to agree that most of the usual suspects will/ are overpricing their tablets though. Whether this is through belief in their brands or completely misjudging the market remains to be seen.

        1. aThingOrTwo

          Re: Advent Vega

          This device has none of the appeal or quality of the iPad. It is also lacking in quite a few important specs as well. I completely disagree it is anyway functionally comparable to Cupertino's offering. Far from very, very close, the two devices couldn't be further apart.

          The Vega trades quality build materials for cheap ones, base 16GB of flash storage for 512MB and a SD card, LED backlit IPS Screen for a lower resolution screen without IPS, a 10 hour battery for a 6 hour one, 802.11n for 802.11g etc. etc. etc.

          It doesn't take much digging to see where the costs have been saved. Reviews also found problems with interaction — the edges of the screen not being as responsive as the middle, not picking up touches etc. And I haven't even mentioned it's running an OS which Google doesn't even recommend for tablets. Advent barely did any customisations like Samsung did with the Tab. No Android Marketplace either.

          Look, I don't doubt or dispute Apple are making good profit on every device, but that it more to do with their operations, end to end integration and buying power. For their competitors is is a different story and it is very hard for them to hit Apple's prices, let alone undercut and still make money. Again, read any other analysis on this. I'm not saying anything remotely controversial here.

  1. Danny 14

    or

    if it works in a business environment. Apple still isnt fantastic integrating into a windows domain as a GPO'able device.

  2. aThingOrTwo

    Don't read it the same.

    > “Android has a great brand on it's own”

    No it doesn't.

    > "People are discovering that tablets really don't do many things particularly well, and hence can't justify a hefty price tag. For this majority crowd, prices will continue to fall, and Android is likely to win."

    If that is the case then why do you assume so many will be sold?

    Most people need a phone, you don't need a tablet.

    I could see a scenario with not everyone choosing to buy a tablet and those who do choose to own one choosing iPad. And Apple would have 60-70% of the market, like they do with media players today.

  3. RachelG
    Jobs Halo

    Could it be...

    So they can't undercut. Could it be the iPad is an Apple device that isn't <shock/> overpriced? :-P

    1. Big_Ted
      Jobs Halo

      Its simple............

      Apple can sell for the price they do as they know they will make a fortune from itunes apps music etc.

      Others with Android on them can't as they don't control the software etc source.

      It will be hard to undercut Apple with a piece of kit that is as desirable unless like RIM you have your own ap store.

      Apple will be the device of choice for many until someone comes out with something that feels as good in the hand and is much cheaper, otherwise a lot will pay the extra say £50 because its an iPad.

      1. Walt French

        Follow this much?

        “Apple can sell for the price they do as they know they will make a fortune from itunes apps music etc.”

        You really don't follow this business much, do you?

        Apple makes a fortune from its iTunes stores for exactly one reason: it helps them move more gear. Customers know that they can watch actual TV programs (unlike the Google TV fiasco), so they get an AppleTV or iPad. That they can get almost any music they want (unlike Microsoft's PlaysForSure disaster) and play it as long as they like on their iPod. That they can get the same Chinese dictionary as their friend has on her iPhone, so they buy an iPad.

        The store revenues are indeed big bucks but they pale in comparison to the profit margins on the hardware. If Apple reduced its 30% or whatever share to 10%, their company profits wouldn't notice it and stock price would drop only if it suggested a competitor was halfway close.

      2. Tim Bates

        Or...

        >otherwise a lot will pay the extra say £50 because its an iPad.

        And other people will pay the extra $50 because it's NOT an iPad. I wouldn't pay $300 for an iPad/iPhone (if they were that price), but have already bought an Adam for $US600.

        Why? Because I can do what I want with it, not just what a loony CEO says I might like to do.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re

      I think the stats on the iPad were something along the lines of a 60% markup over cost. Shouldn't be a problem to undercut it.

      What are the rules on something like that anyway? If I bought and assembled essentially the exact same parts but put it in a different case and sold it at 20% margin, would there be a problem? It's not like Apple invented anything about it, it's all tech they buy from other people, the same as I would be doing.

      1. nation of stupid

        @Bullseyed

        Not a problem assembling exactly the same parts in a different case to undercut Apple.

        Just a couple of problems though, you'll have to develop your own OS to run on it, develop and maintain an online app shop to support it, then create the infrastructure to allow developers to create the apps you need for the app shop.

        Can't really compete with the iPad unless you have the whole experience, not just the hardware.

  4. Giles Jones Gold badge

    Prices

    It must show that the iPad isn't all that overpriced as the competitors come in at around the same price. Competitors are either profiting from the hype or that is how much it costs to design and build one plus make a worthwhile profit.

    The main problem with the iPad competition is quality or lack of it. Each one seems to have a downside in the design or software.

    Some might say that laptops are cheaper and more complex but laptops are different, few have touch screen, they can weight more as they're not hand held much. Laptop batteries don't run to 7-10 hours usually. There's more room in a laptop for everything.

  5. Mark Broadhurst
    Flame

    Fanbaiting ?

    My personal feeling is that the Ipad and the Android Tablets all suffer from the same thing.

    Its phone software on something which isnt a phone.

    I hope the next generation acctually take a proper OS and shrink it so it works with a touch interface rather than upscaling a phone.

    1. RichyS
      WTF?

      WTF?

      Really? Because that's been so successful in the past?

  6. Anton Ivanov
    FAIL

    Kind'a

    RIM or Cisco can ask 1000$ for a tablet and it will still sell to corporates exactly because it is not Apple. Your average MCSE has no idea how to administer OS X and how to make it fit into the already set in stone corporate IT policies. They know that where iPhone and iPad goes the MacBooks will follow and they do not want that. So they will quite happily pay a premium over the iDevice price for something familiar that fits their picture of the universe.

    So RIM will sell. So will someone like Cisco. Similarly, cheap as chips Chinese and Taiwanese Android tablets based on the Wonder MediaVia chipset will sell as well.

    It is the like of Motorola, Toshiba and Samsung which have a problem here. They are neither fish nor fowl. Too expensive to go for the consumer part and not sufficiently business oriented and with no supporting infra to go after business.

    1. Walt French

      The Times They Are A'Changin'

      “Your average MCSE has no idea how to administer OS X…”

      Whoever they are. Your average MSCE has no clue how to administer WebOS; Android versions 2.1, 2.2, 2.3 or 3.0; or QNX (which they have never seen and for which there is not even a native dev kit).

      Probably clueless about the Windows 8 Tablets, as well.

      My organization's IT is also exceptionally closed to new technology. But the iPad and iPhone are coming in from both the top — CEO's who wonder why their competition has all the sexy customer-facing apps and the competition's marketing people all have slick-as-snot info-sharing devices — and from the bottom, employees who happily bring functional hardware in their pocket when making service calls, going into meetings, etc. In these days of high demand for productivity and zero budget for costly, one-trick-pony mobile workstations, Times will change.

      1. Robert E A Harvey

        Average MCSE

        Most of the ones I have to deal with have no idea how to administer Windows...

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re

        Costly one trick ponies?

        Surely you mean iPads not workstations.

        There's no way you could be that daft and still be employed.

  7. Chas
    Jobs Halo

    And another thing...

    Please show me the apps on RIM's Playbook or on any Android device that are certified by the FDA for use as a remote diagnostic imaging tool (http://www.mimsoftware.com/products/iphone) or have FAA approval for use as an alternative to paper flight charts (http://www.jeppesen.com/company/newsroom/articles.jsp?newsURL=news/newsroom/2011/iPad_EFB_authorization_NR.jsp)

    Oh, that'll be zero, then. I suppose I'd better not mention the 80% of Fortune 100 companies that are adopting the iPad in the enterprise. Where's Android? Nowhere!

    1. Anonymous Coward
      WTF?

      eh?

      What's the FAA?

      And is the 'Fortune 100' some kind of lottery?

  8. NoneSuch Silver badge
    Joke

    Yup...

    Nicely written article.

    "People are discovering that tablets really don't do many things particularly well." which would make them the Hula Hoop of the first decade.

    1. Doug Glass
      Go

      Naaww, not Hula Hoop ...

      ... pet rock.

  9. Brian Gannon

    Couldn't agree more

    As a consumer I just want a half decent Android tablet around the £200 / £250 mark. I just cant see value in a tablet costing more.

  10. Anonymous Coward
    Jobs Halo

    Another revenue stream

    Next thing you know Apple will want a 30% cut of any iPad like device sold...

  11. Badwolf

    Cheap as chips

    Android is Cheap?

    Crappy handsets are cheap, stuff comparable with the Apple build quality are not cheap

  12. Anonymous Coward
    Jobs Horns

    Tablets are ridiculously overpriced..

    Doesn't matter if it's Apple or not I'm not interested in buying a tablet until it's ~$350. Not sure why anyone is contemplating the device for $799. Note I bought an android one for that (350) off ebay from viewsonic (replaced it rom with custom) and it's ok (1Ghz cpu etc) so it ploughs along nicely however I can tell you once u get over the gimmick factor it's a rather pointless device in *general*. I prefer taking my laptop outside while relaxing than have to hold the tablet with one hand and type with the other.

    When they invent a laptop with a remove-able tablet for $799 I'll be interested.

    1. Robert E A Harvey
      FAIL

      Yes!

      It's a laptop with no keyboard, hinge, optical drive, hard drive, or M$ tax.

      I can get one of they laptop thingies for 300 beer tokens. Why does leaving chunks off add 500 b.t. to the price?

    2. Rainer
      Coat

      You should have...

      ...bought an iPad.

      It's only the ViewSonic device that is pointless ;-)

    3. CarlC
      Happy

      Like this you mean.......

      Check out the Asus Eee pad transformer halfway down this page.....

      http://ces2011.asus.com/archives/ces-2011/asus-tablet-computers-providing-choice-through-innovation-at-ces-2011/

  13. Keith Doyle

    Cheap price to compensate for...

    ... the lack of an app store with a few hundred thousand apps. Thats a significant feature, even if 99% of those apps are crap. And as someone else observed, Apple's piece of that action allows for smaller margins on the hardware if necessary. Apple has a good thing going, and may be as hard to unseat as eBay, and for similar reasons.

    1. This post has been deleted by its author

  14. Walt French

    All About Margin?

    “Apple is all about margin, which means maintaining a healthy price premium for its products.”

    Pardon me, but did some gremlin introduce a sentence that entirely contradicts the rest of the article? And ignores the fact that lower-priced tablets announced to date are fugly hodgepodges of chips and crapware?

    There was an interesting comment in 2004 in Newsweek, criticizing Apple's pricing policies that went for “obscene” profits instead of going for market share. Speaking to Dan Lyons was… Steve Jobs.

    Apple may have forgotten the idea — it was a shot at marketing types, leaping from Mr. Sculley to one Mr. Ballmer, after all — but the apparent reason why Apple's prices are so high is simply that they have no incentive to reduce the price until they can make more of them.

    Once they can quintuple capacity, their profits would probably maximize at something like 2/3 of today's equivalent pricing. There will be other tablets and phones, but as costs are unbundled from the carriers and can be compared, Apple's huge volumes are going to make it hard to produce a similar quality ecosystem.

  15. JaitcH
    WTF?

    Diesel or Gas/Petrol: Do Consumers really know the difference between OS?

    Many consumers don't actually know what goes on 'under the hood' - they simply buy the name on the box which is, essentially, what iPhans do. If you produced an Android handset with a fruit logo most could tell the difference, at first glance.

    The most the average consumer knows is the equivalent of whether a car runs on gas/petrol or diesel.

    Later they would discover the freedom to use it for practically anything.

    Only techies rant and rave about OS and what percentile of the market do they represent?

    1. aThingOrTwo

      I agree

      Many consumers don't actually know what goes on 'under the hood' - they simply buy the cheapest iPhone lookalike which is, essentially, what Android users do.

      If you produced an iPhone with Google's might see an update, probably won't policy and general lack of fit and finish most could not tell the difference, at first glance.

      Later they would discover they have freedom to use their device with the biggest range of accessories and the freedom to choose from the biggest application marketplace in the world…

  16. Jean-Paul

    Personal media player

    It seem that many are still looking at it from a personal media player perspective with a bit of email and online browsing perspective.

    My iPad is the from which I hook up a projector, edit the PowerPoint, do the presentation, create a visio workflow or process prototype. Review and annotate key documents. Update expenses spreadsheet. Share an always on me project plan which I can view anywich way I like.

    And also watch a movie on my way home that I bought legally instead of some divx knock off. And sort my emails etc.

    My point is, it is about the apps. The android Market, yes I do have a desire hd phone, is severely lacking in serious applications that allows someone to do their job. Please do point me in the direction on how to create/edit visio files, or ms project, or even something as simple as reviewing a PDF and embed the annotations, highlight sections etc. If you can and do by all means vote me down others just think why you do.

    I think the rim playbook will work in the corporate world but purely because of the ease of integration with existing bes services and handheld bb devices. Still needs some business grade apps though.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Joke

      Visio?

      If creating PowerPoint, SpreadSheets, MS Project and Viso charts count as work, you need a proper job.

    2. JEDIDIAH
      Linux

      The joys of monopoly

      > And also watch a movie on my way home that I

      > bought legally instead of some divx knock off.

      Here goes the "piracy accusation".

      Unless you only buy through the platform monopolist, ANY movie you have on the iThing is going to look like some "divx knock off".

      The problem with "apps" on a tablet is that you are stuck with the tablet interface. This is especially true for a closed platform like PhoneOS. That is where more PC-like tablets can have a considerable advantage.

  17. Anonymous Coward
    Happy

    NO ONE BUY A WALKMAN JUST BECAUSE IT IS A SONY

    ONCE PEOPLE START TO REALIZE APPLE IS JUST A FRUIT LIKE BANANA

    1. Ilgaz

      actually...

      Sony/Ericsson does sell a lot of older Os androids because of the name Sony made for excellent mp3/aac audio decompression.

      As an ex Sony P1i (symbian uiq3) owner, I agree to them.

  18. yella
    FAIL

    its not a pc or a laptop

    working in a very apple encentric job i can confirm that most people buying the ipad are buying it thinking it is mucj more than it actually is.

    I can honestly say upto 50% of the people I speak with are disappointed in the ability of the device.

    Flash, a mobile browser, and the way that setting up mail on the wifi 3g versions are just messed up, works on wifi fails on 3g, works on 3g fails on wifi.

    Overall most people will not actually complain and look the fool when they realise it isnt a laptop.

    These devices are way over priced and need to be at least halved. They are just glorified netbooks locked into the apple garden.

    Pads will take off when :-

    1 - they are as powerful as a current laptop (then you can justify the price at around 500-600 euros)

    2 - they are recognised for what they are, glorified netbooks, that should be priced around 200-300 euros.

    How many people are outwardly going to say they spent 800 euros on a ipad to find out it doesnt do what they thought it would........ Hense the lack of bad comments methinks.

  19. Wang N Staines

    My requirements

    1. Flash

    2. Freedom to install apps from any stores

    I will pay extra for those.

  20. Andyroid5

    Ipads ?? tunes ??

    Could never get my head around why anyone would let themselves get tied in with one particular vendor...

    Methinks its down to base tribalism which is the root kit used by most company's.

    Spotify anyone ?? ;)

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      shiny

      Probably because most people don't understand the concept.

      They go into the nice shiny shop that sells 'PCs/phones/pads/laptops/etc' and ask the nice smiley man for a nice shiny device.

  21. Daniel 36
    Happy

    Umm yeah Archos 101 cost €$329

    I have one of these and will never go after an ipad or the samsung galaxy tab.(Stupidly priced) It may not have 3G built in but it tethers like no-ones business.

    May want to think about it. What is really a shame is that companies such as Zinio and a few others only make software available for the Samsung. But people have already hacked it and now I read my magazines just fine.

    Nice toy cheap and works fantastic. No thanks Apple or Samsung

  22. Biomech
    Jobs Horns

    Poorly Made

    It's funny to think that Apple continue to release products that require people to "break" them in order to get any useful functionality from them. They are excessively overpriced and really don't do anything. Steve Jobs knows that the army of fanbois will buy what he tells them to, and then buy the same thing 6 months later with half the features that should have been in the first release.

    I'm a photographer, I wanted a 10" tab that I could use on location as a stand out viewing device for clients to see work and make selections. The iPad just can't do this without having all sorts of crap hanging out the side. And even if it could, I wouldn't pay such an extortionate price for what is essentially a netbook with the screen snapped off.

    I bought an Advent Vega for £230. 10" capacitive multipoint touchscreen on Android. USB port, android market, HD divx support and flash enabled out of the box. And the battery life is great. I use it for client work or laying in bed reading. When I was willing to spend £600, I bought a substantially powered laptop.

  23. Ilgaz

    4G is the comedy factor

    Does those devices with 4G come with a list of suggested sites that makes use of such bandwidth and battery waste? FYI, loosely compressed h264 of blu ray with uncompressed 7.1 audio is 25mbit and it is designed for a high end screen with high end audio.

    1. Robert Carnegie Silver badge

      I wondered about that.

      A device may be capable of downloading 5 gigabytes of data in hours or less on mobile service, but why would you do that? It doesn't make sense unless a user is actually consuming data. High definition video yes, or a copy of a DVD such as a Linux distro, but otherwise... are your ears and eyeballs wide enough to consume data at that rate?

      Then again, I only have mobile broadband, and I have almost maxed a 5 GB limit one month.

      1. JEDIDIAH
        Linux

        Bandwidth? This is 2011 already.

        > A device may be capable of downloading

        > 5 gigabytes of data in hours or less on mobile

        > service, but why would you do that?

        What? You don't have Amazon streaming over there?

        It's not really that hard to exceed a mobile bandwidth cap even without using your mobile device as a telly. Some mobile devices have a nasty habit of just plain being "chatty", even without someone "at the console".

  24. david 63

    Windup article

    I can't believe the author really wants to see a monopoly on the tablet market. i'm currently hovering over the samsung galaxy.

    Therefore article is a troll an needs to be ignored

  25. gerryg
    Thumb Up

    N800

    Still use mine four years on

    wifi, browser, skype, streaming radio, media player, video, FM radio, clock, alarm, GPS (with gadget), maps, pdf reader, notepad thingy for drafting, chess, tetris, some other game I've never played, other stuff I've never used, no app store, no cachet, fits in pocket, drops on floor safely.

  26. wraith404
    FAIL

    apple is crap for morons

    I don't associate anything with apple except a high price tag on worthless garbage. Garbage that can't integrate, garbage that can't communicate, garbage that is locked down and under functioned just so it can appeal to a fanbase with an average IQ at about 4. They build toys for morons who want to appear tech savvy without actually needing to know how to turn on a computer.

    The xoom is actually worth it's cost, because it can do 10 times what the ipad 2 is going to be able to.

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