Court orders seizure of PS3 hacker's computers
A federal judge ordered prolific hacker Geohot to turn over his computers and hard drives and to stop publishing the tools used to root Sony's PlayStation 3 after finding his hack was likely a violation of US copyright law. The temporary restraining order was issued on Thursday by US District Judge Susan Illston of San …
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I don't own a PS3 and have no intention of buying one so I'm no more than a casual observer here.
But what I do believe is happening here is that previously people just went out bought a system and never read the T&C's. They didn't care as long as it did what it was supposed to. I don't think that attitude will continue for much longer. Users will start to read/be aware the increasing unfair conditions and this will affect their choices of what to buy. How long will it be before Sony is viewed as a monopoly and a competitor has to be established? Will the market level itself? Is that what is happening now?
This discussion wasn't about Freetards although commentardss seem to be determined to develop it into that argument. The discussion was about whether an owner/person/user should be allowed to change/hack/modify their own hardware/software but I guess your comment proves my point. When you have nothing of consequence to say you infer it is linked to Freetards/Pirates/Terrorists/Pedos.
I love screwing/tinkering around with my PC. That's why I have a PC and not a MAC. You can't screw with a MAC or a PS3 so they are of little interest to me
Maybe just a troll I don't think so…. Israel has long been known to employ Web Activists to patrol the internet reporting, engaging and contradicting discussions critical to Israel. So what's you motivation in changing the focus of this argument anonymous coward? Are you being paid to be here?
The title is required, and must contain letters and/or digits.
"I love screwing/tinkering around with my PC. That's why I have a PC and not a MAC. You can't screw with a MAC or a PS3 so they are of little interest to me"
Nah it just requires more thought to screw with a Mac. I used to enjoy attacking ROM chips and and multipliers with soldering irons on my Macs in the good old PPC days.
Of course these days its cheaper just to run a Hackintosh.
By the way MAC is Media Access Control, a Mac is a Macintosh.
Sir
I hope Geo has had the sense to load up some virii to his machines before handing them over.
Perhaps a Sony Rootkit based worm called 'Chicken'.
That way it can go home to roost and shit all over their servers.
What Now for Sony?
Following their legal success today, a spokesman for Sony said the company will now be, "turning their attention to a stable door that has been left open, reclaiming lost toothpaste for future use, and committing resources to returning their cat to its soft storage receptacle."
I'm sure we all wish them the best of luck with that.
Thing is, the stable door isn't all the way open.
IOW, the horse hasn't escaped yet. It still isn't possible to install custom applications onto a stock PS3 without hacking it in some way. The big problem is there are only two avenues for installation normally, and neither one has been hacked yet (Game discs have a hardware lock, and downloads are protected by Sony's SSL key, which is still unknown). All Sony needs to do is release a new firmware that reinforces this restriction by making sure no other installation method can ever be opened again. Don't be surprised if they remove the firmware-by-USB route (thus killing the jailbreak keys), make all future firmware updates go through SSL (thus killing the man-in-the-middle approach), and prevent any form of downgrading, even by Sony itself, once installed (thus killing using Service Mode to downgrade it to a hackable version).
What do you mean by "hacking"
You can install custom firmware on a pre-3.55 machine just by handing it a 3.55 software update, then install what you like, including new ssl root certificates...
But in as much as it isn't yet possible to directly install programs, you're right.
Cat
bag, out of.....
Dear Sony, further to my earlier comment about pissing your paying customers off, now you're pissing off your non paying customers as well...
Will this end up like the blu-ray key?
You know, the one that's been replicated on a millions .sigs across the Internet?
Good luck, Sony.
Not Blu-Ray
Although there have been plenty of Blu-Ray keys published if you know where to look, there is no single 'do everything' key published that can't be revoked.
You are likely thinking about the HDCP key - that's the encryption that goes on across the HDMI cable and actually has nothing to do with Blu-Ray.
Likely?
"after finding his hack was likely a violation of US copyright law"
In other words, guilty until proven innocent?
Hopefully that will teach people that albeit they are told they have rights, they are not expected to use them.
It's not Sony 1/Geohot 0, it's corporate world 1/people 0.
Restraining orders are not punishments.
Punishments can only be rendered after trial. Restraining orders have been and will continue to be useful and effective tools of the law to protect citizens from criminal activity. The clearer example is the spouse who obtains a restraining order against a violent soon to be ex. But if the law is to be fair to all, that has to extend beyond that example. Another example would be the restraining issue ordered by the Illinois Supreme court that the Board of Elections could not proceed to print ballots without Rahm's name on them until the court had heard the case. Without the order, irreparable harm could have been done to Rahm's case before the verdict was rendered. (Personally I'm of the opinion that the final verdict was wrong, but even before hand I grant that the restraining order was legally in order and necessary).
In other words, guilty until proven innocent?
Er. No.
At this stage the Judge can only find against Sony if he believes that in the balance of probabilities Sony will lose.
Sony still has a massive up hill battle to win. The first being that they have yet to prove that Geohot actually is the person they claim he is.
Nothing new here
Sony are way up there with Apple in their contempt for customers.
If you want a packaged solution which you may only use in the manner prescribed by the manufacturer, buy from one of these companies and live with it, preferably in silence.
If not, buy from someone more accommodating.
If the "walled garden" vendor's bottom line is hurt, they'll change their ways. As long as they're making money, they won't.
The inconvenient truth is that they're making money.
(Hand grenade because they're pretty)
Linux
Don't forget, Sony removed the option to use Linux on the PS3. I am sure Sony were quite within their rights to do this (who reads pages of legal small print). They will have annoyed plenty of people by doing this and I fully support people bringing this facility back to the PS3.
I don't regularity use Linux on my PC although I would like to at some point.
Also, why do companies that release powerful games consoles "cripple" them? The PS3 (and Xbox 360 and the wii to some extent) have the potential to be ultimate media centers but it often takes the hackers to realise this potential - see XBMC on the original Xbox.
Agree
I hacked my Wii to play avi's, mkv's, and other formats as well as DVD's.
Seeing the wii has the ability I don't see why nintendo just didn't make it a system channel and charge like $5.
Instead you have to hack it run a pile of commands that potentially could brick the system, if you fudge up, and run some home brewed app like WiiMC to watch them.
give them an old machine
If i were Geohot i would just look on Craiglist for someone selling an old Pentium 3 computer for $10 and put the PS3 'crack' on it and hand that over, after all they don't know which computer he uses if they havent served a warrant and confisgated his computer personally.
But to be honest just as in the DVD copy protection from a few years ago, once the horse has bolted its no good trying to close the stable door by now stopping him from publishing it as its already on the interwebs and i expect 1000s of forums and other websites have mirrored the info now.
All that this tells people who want to try and crack further consoles etc is to use a proxy server located outside the US to publish the info so you can't easily be traced so the big corps will have no one to try and sue so will instead spent the money on trying to make their systems better rather than on expensive lawyers.
Jail time coming up methinks.
I'm guessing any of those failoverlfow team and GeoHot subject to US law will be facing jailtime pretty soon.
LOL, not so cocky now....
Jailbreaking takes on a whole new meaning...
Don't drop the soap in the showever George. I heard they like young boys.
Sir
I may be jumping to conclusions here, but your post reads like you condone rape of young boys - and you want a _hacker_ locked up!
I wish El Reg would change the AC handle to Anonymous Arsehole, because that seems to be the main* reason people post AC - i.e. to post something they are ashamed of admitting to with their regular handle.
*Unless the article is about privacy of course, and then it's de rigueur.
I bet these kids
Thought they were being cool too...
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-stories/2011/01/28/two-schoolboys-arrested-in-investigation-into-hackers-who-attacked-credit-card-firms-over-wikileaks-row-115875-22880653/
These things will catch up with you. You publish codes, circumvent security, the law will catch up with you. 4CHAN won't be there to bail you out then thou.....
What if he had used a 'cloud' service: How do you impound a 'cloud'?
Another recent unlock exploit was achieved by using a 'cloud' service. If this had been the situation in this case how would you go abut impounding the 'cloud'.
I hope the Defendant in this action has gathered together all his old 386/486 junk, and a very old hard drive to give to the court - suitably erased, of course.
In the mean time Google has, once again, come to everyone's assistance with their 'Cache' feature <https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:30hHr5XIU2UJ:geohot.com/old_index.html+&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&client=firefox-a&source=encrypted.google.com >.
An interesting part of the page reads:
-----
erk: C0 CE FE 84 C2 27 F7 5B D0 7A 7E B8 46 50 9F 93 B2 38 E7 70 DA CB 9F F4 A3 88 F8 12 48 2B E2 1B
riv: 47 EE 74 54 E4 77 4C C9 B8 96 0C 7B 59 F4 C1 4D
pub: C2 D4 AA F3 19 35 50 19 AF 99 D4 4E 2B 58 CA 29 25 2C 89 12 3D 11 D6 21 8F 40 B1 38 CA B2 9B 71 01 F3 AE B7 2A 97 50 19
R: 80 6E 07 8F A1 52 97 90 CE 1A AE 02 BA DD 6F AA A6 AF 74 17
n: E1 3A 7E BC 3A CC EB 1C B5 6C C8 60 FC AB DB 6A 04 8C 55 E1
K: BA 90 55 91 68 61 B9 77 ED CB ED 92 00 50 92 F6 6C 7A 3D 8D
Da: C5 B2 BF A1 A4 13 DD 16 F2 6D 31 C0 F2 ED 47 20 DC FB 06 70
-----
Just paste the above into Notepad and all should be revealed/readable.
Guess this is yet another judge who is gaining InterNet knowledge whilst 'on the job'.
war
This is a war against private property and creativity. I sincerely hope that Sony loses. If Sony wins, everyone in the world loses as the concept of private property If Sony wins, I will never buy another Sony product again!
I blame advertising...
...because if the code was published on a page where there was any advertising, someone was making money from Sony's IP, and that's illegal (I Hate Ryan Air.com suit as precident).
No money being made = fair game.
Hotz is obv a talented guy with a non-illegal goal, I wish him the best of luck fighting this.
T-Shirts
Get T-Shirts printed in Taiwan or some-such that have visualizations of the key emblazoned across them, and distribute at hacker conventions, etc. Piss 'em off good style.
T-shirt - like this one?
http://www.zazzle.co.uk/ps3_master_key_shirt-235860327384146059
Stable doors and bolting horses...
Too late Sony. This code is out there now in the wild and there is nothing you can do to stop it.
Rather than litigating against your customers, why didn't you offer this guy a job as it seems he is much smarter and brighter than your internal developers.
Too late for that.
Last I heard, Microsoft's been courting him. And I think they'll be able to top anything Sony could offer.
Digital Myriad CoverUp Act?
if Sony would make door locks with this stupid code, they would be sued for damages.
they would not even have time to whine "but, but, but that was a evil hacker" - everyone would complain NO you idiots, you just released a badly tested product, and i want my money back (and damages from break in). and there would be no more Sony.
but alas it is just a game console, and what they might loose is the aftermarket sales.
sell this stupid console at a price that will break-even after 3-5 years and sell the games cheaper.
have the consoles sold with SaaS e.g. we will replace your hardware no questions asked for some bucks/per month/per year whatever.
I mean business ideas are there, you just don't use them wisely.
Simple, Don't buy Sony
There are plenty of other good manufacturers out there, the only way they will listen is if nobody buys their products.
These people have a long history of trying to stiff you the consumer, fancy a rootkit on your PC then just ask those nice folks at Sony.
Regards
Mr F.U. Sony
No No No
What you do, is buy a PS3, buy a USB key, stick on the backup manager, fill your hard drive with games rented (soon to be downloaded!!!, ISO's on the way) from block buster, lovefilm etc and then hit em where it hurts. First, Sony loose money on consoles but make it on the games, well, if you aint paying for the games then its a double hit for Sony.
Now, before the broadside, as a rule i dont condone piracy but in Sonys case, i'm happy to shaft them. After all, they have shafted us umpteen times.
Up the jolly roger.....
www.eurasia.nu for the latest....
Some areas perhaps, but not gaming.
If you want the best gaming, then PS3 is the only option.
If you want 2000-era get a Wii, (or a Xbox Kinect)
If you want gaming stuck in 2006, get a Xbox 360.
The only want to play the best and latest games, is by getting a PS3, simple as that.
As I said before
If you want the best gaming buy a PC - apart from MGS4 and GT5, what other "must have" PS3 exclusives are there?
"want to play the best and latest games, get a PS3, simple as that."
depends on your definition of "best".
The best game in the world has already been released: Half Life 2.
I stopped gaming shortly after completing it. There's no point anymore, all other games are a thinly veiled excuse to let low IQ (think 20-40) 12 year old boys mash buttons and look at badly rendered CGI tits. So they can spend all day drooling into their laps which when you think about it is a lot more productive than the life of crime they would almost certainly be leading otherwise, given that they are hopelessly unimaginative. In that respect; Sony's infinite potential for criminally immoral behavior fits their customers like a fine satin glove.
To hell with the lot of them.
what other "must have" PS3 exclusives are there?
How about Uncharted 1, Uncharted 2, Motorstorm 1, Motorstorm 2, Resistance 1, Resistance 2, Little Big Planet 1, Little Big Planet 2, Heavy Rain, Killzone 2, God Of War 3, Infamous 1, Mod Nation Racers, and Wipeout HD. That's just the games I think any gamer should have at least played.
And that's just the games that are out. Confirmed and coming soon there is Uncharted 3, Resistance 3, Killzone 3, and Infamous 2. I'm sure there's a load more too, that's just off the top of my head.
That's not to say the Wii/360/PC doesn't have their share of great exclusives, and equally not to say that the PS3 doesn't have it's share of absolute clangers (I'm looking at you Lair and Haze). But actually, for me at least, the PS3 has way more excellent games. Virtually all of my favourites for the last few years are PS3 exclusive.
And you yourself mentioned 2 of the most defining games of their particular genres (assuming GT5s genre is driving simulation) Metal Gear Solid 4 and GT5.
The old standard of "PS3 has no games" has long been far from the truth, that's for sure.
@ Octopoid
Out of the 20 "must have" games you mentioned in your post 13 of them are sequels, and 3rd or 4th sequels at that. To any non-Sony fanboy that's pretty fucking pathetic.
PS3: Bringing you the same old shit you've been playing since the PS1... but now in HD!
Even better idea
Why not go out and meet people or get a life ?
@AC replying to Octopoid
"Out of the 20 "must have" games you mentioned in your post 13 of them are sequels, and 3rd or 4th sequels at that. To any non-Sony fanboy that's pretty fucking pathetic."
AS pathetic as having a console that owes its mere existance to one single game? If it hadn't been for Halo, the Original Xbox would have gone the way of the 3D0 and the Apple Pippin. And it still is the #1 reason to own an XBox360, that and Gears of War.
As much as I hate Sony for pulling the 3.21 "remove OtherOS" bait-and-switch, I would rather buy another PS3 to be able to play games released after April 1, 2010 than purchase a 360. Barring the Linux brouhaha, Sony actually lets you stick a bog-standard HDD in your PS3, while MS will make you buy an overpriced "Xbox HDD".
Engage brain, comment
You know WHY the PS3 has so many sequels? Because the original games were brilliant. Maybe in your world, you release a game, then forget all about it, but to my mind, that only happens when the game was shit. Really, I think that that is a fair old chunk of clutching at straws. SEQUELS DON'T COUNT LOLOLOL.
And also - try to know anything. Most of those games debuted on the PS3 in HD, not to mention that the 2 games referenced in the original post - MGS4 and GT5 - are both sequels!
So anyway, flaming aside - do tell what must have games you enjoy that are not available on the PS3 and (for some bizarre reason) have NO sequels? Half life..oh. Gears of..ah. Halo...hmm. Civiliz...damn. In 2011 I think you'll find that tricky.
@Octopoid
Dude, serious gamers buy a tricked up Windows based PC. And with a PC you get to do stuff other than play games.
Children get their mummy to buy them a console. What flavour of console is not relevant.
Aghh - why fight?
We have a PS3 and a PC well capable of gaming.
I prefer sitting on a comfy sofa to sitting on a dining room chair.
I prefer our 46" TV to the 17" monitor.
I like the holdability of a controller over KB & mouse.
Yes I do both.
And I am using a rather DRMed PC gaming system, but everyone loves it - Steam.
May be sequels - but really good sequels
When you have a series which you enjoy, which gets new and exciting games which provide different stories you are happy with sequels.
HL2 metioned before - sequel
Portal 2 soon - sequel
To many gaming fans near the end of the year there are two "3" sequels being released, my favourite series Uncharted and a lot of peoples favourite Mass Effect.
Why are they worse by being sequels?
Well they are not, they are well respected series.
Don't forget Uncharted Series
One of the best series of this hardware generation.
"I prefer our 46" TV to the 17" monitor."
You do know that most TVs these days have DVI/VGA/HDMI ports in them? You know, so you can hook up a real computer?
Also a controller might be good for some games, but for a first person shooter all other interaction methods fail beside the awesomeness of ye olde keyboard+mouse combo. At least until we have some kind of funky augmented reality stuff going on like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CyCyzB0CedM
And Steam/EA Downloader/whatever Ubisoft's utter horse-wank is, can suck my balls. That is all.
Different rooms! and I still like Steam
TV is quite a way from the PC.
Also I am not that great at FPS so mainly PC game during Dancing on Ice/XCraptor.
Downloaded PC games - just Steam - they work
If Sony...
...had not removed the "Run other OS" option (which was initially cynically added to get tax breaks) then they would not have this trouble. "Other OS" let people do amazing things with PS3s. Even MS have wised-up and stopped threatening everyone who hacked the Kinect.
Why is Sony not in court for breach of contract or something for removing this feature?
None of this is likely to save Hotz from serious jail time though.
Nice that you rewrote history there.
Sony removed OtherOS BECAUSE Hotz was hacking the hypervisor using it.
Seems idiots want to rewrite history to make it look like Sony removed it for no reason.
They might as well have
Hotz's hack simply allowed Linux to use the full capabilities of the hardware. There was no threat to Sony's bottom line with it and thus no reason to kill off other OS. Besides it required a soldering iron. By removing the other OS option they opened themselves up to soft mods that will eventually lead to the ability to play backup discs (backed up from your buddy's copy of course). It was a dumb move on their part.
And for the record, they did get sued. I haven't heard anything about it in a while, but I remember reading about the plantiffs trying to get class action status.
Re: Nice that you rewrote history there
No rewriting ... in fact Hotz did that because Sony decided to take away that option in the PS3 Slim. IIRC he was mostly trying to get OtherOS capabilities in the Slim as well, and unlocking the HW restrictions in all PS3s initially. He didn't actually gun for piracy.
The fail0verflow dudes even explained this in the CCC conference.
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