back to article Raygun dreadnought project reports 'remarkable breakthrough'

US Navy boffins say they have achieved a major milestone in their quest to build an invincible raygun battleship. The breakthrough comes in the Free Electron Laser (FEL) project, intended to produce an electrically powered, megawatt-range laser able to sweep the skies of pesky aircraft, hypersonic shipkiller missiles etc. …

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    1. Ken Hagan Gold badge
      Alien

      Re: I'm not optimistic

      "Offensive weapons that couldn't be defended (i.e. nuclear bombs on ICBMs) spectacularly failed to deter war"

      Er, I must have missed that global thermonuclear war then. I think the Russians missed it, too. They seem *very* concerned that the deployment of an effective defence against ICBMs might be a problem.

      "there seems to be no limit to the stupidity of military leaders and ..."

      Welcome to Earth. You may come in peace, but don't make any assumptions about us. We're all bat-shit insane.

  1. Steve X
    Coat

    missile fuel

    Drive your hypersonic missile with a Bussard ramjet. The more ions you pour into the scoop from the FEL, the faster the missile will travel. As for targeting, it can just zero in on the free food...

    1. Daniel Evans

      Ions?

      I'll let you have the ion point, as the laser would do a pretty spiffy job of ionising the atmosphere between A and B. Wouldn't it have a slight fit over the rest of the high energy photons which weren't used in plasma-fying the atmosphere?

      (All the above words are obviously the correct technical terms.)

    2. MeRp

      great idea... except

      the FEL doesn't fire ions. It uses Light Amplification by Stimulated Emission of Radiation to deliver it's killign energy... ie. it is not a particle weapon (which could fire ions), but rather an EM energy weapon/LASER.

  2. Tigra 07
    IT Angle

    Here's a genuine question...

    Wouldn't a nuclear powered warship provide enough energy?

    I'm sure there's already some in use.

  3. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Last paragraph

    Is genius.

    Although are we limited to shark-deployed weapons? Would one of the members of Tylosaurinae (15m of pure bloody-minded viciousness) make a better platform ?

    Or even a brachiosaur with water wings.

    Just so long as this wouldn't delay the delivery of my pet dinosaur.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      "15m of pure bloody-minded viciousness"

      You've met the wife, then?

      Anon, 'cos I like keeping my nuts attached.

  4. james4765
    Boffin

    One thing to remember about shiny defense

    No mirror in existence can handle 100 megawatts for long. In order to protect yourself, it would have to be a 100% reflective surface. A 99.9% reflective surface would still absorb 100KW of energy, which would do the melty thing on pretty much any material in existence.

    Plus, the best lab-quality first surface mirrors are around 99.5% reflective. That would net you 500KW of heat energy being unloaded on your missile.

    1. crowley

      Yeah? Try this:-

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kAe7V7tcBys&feature=channel

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W4nnLP--uTI&feature=channel

      http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/5158972/Starlite-the-nuclear-blast-defying-plastic-that-could-change-the-world.html

      http://itotd.com/articles/653/starlite/

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starlite

  5. Gobhicks
    WTF?

    @Lee

    Mirrors don't reflect, they scatter.... only able to see your own retinas...???

    I thought the idea that light pours out of the eyes went out with the ancient Greeks?

    Your face absorbs some light and reflects the rest in many directions (diffuse reflection). A mirror reflects some of the light from your face back onto your retinas. A real mirror diffuses a bit of light to be sure, but the whole point of a mirror is that it exhibits specular reflection - light from a single incoming direction is reflected in a single outgoing direction - angle of reflection equals angle of incidence. If you want to reflect a beam back to its source you need a retro-reflector.

    1. Fluffykins Silver badge

      I've got a mirror from the 1940's

      Is that enough of a retro-reflector?

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      @ Gobhiks

      Did you actually read what I wrote? Cos I state you need a retroreflector to reflect the beam back to its source rather than a mirror but you have seen fit to lecture me (with a small amount of ridicule it seems) because what you really need is a retroreflector and not a mirror.

  6. phuzz Silver badge
    Heart

    Sharks and fricking LASERs

    "[a] whale-sized prehistoric megashark - perhaps crossed with electric eels using genetic-meddling abomination technology"

    Oh el reg, don't ever change :)

    (isn't it about time we got a shark+laser icon?)

  7. AJames
    Happy

    You missed the headline!

    "Divert all power to weapons!"

    I guess the captain of future warships really will say that!

  8. Luther Blissett

    Free electrons?

    Is that free as in a beer, or free as in speech? Or merely free as in free-fire zone?

    1. Daniel Evans

      Hmm

      Well, they're free to do what they want, so I'd have to go with speech.

      Pointing one of those things around would probably still result in free beer, mind.

  9. Random Coolzip
    Stop

    Are torpedoes really effective anymore?

    Aren't "dreadnaught-class" ships equipped with hulls on the order of a dozen or so feet thick? ISTR that the *Iowa* class battleships were supposed to have the ability to withstand several direct torpedo hits (from WWII-era torpedoes). Aren't most submarines just damp missile platforms nowadays?

    1. Ed Deckard
      Thumb Down

      Nope

      Dreadnought class (the original): 11 inch (maximum) belt

      Yamato class (the largest): 410 mm (16.14 inch) belt

      Vanguard class (the last built): 14 inch (maximum) belt

      Iowa class (the last in service): 12.1 inch (maximum) belt

      1. Matt Bryant Silver badge
        Boffin

        RE: Nope

        I think what Ed meant to point out was that the torpedo defence measures (thick plate belt armour and hull "blisters") that designers thought would make their later battleships immune to torpedoes were defeated by developments in torpedo design. In the Yamato's case (the battleship with the heaviest belt armour), the fatal blows to this collosal ship were delivered by aerial torpedoes with the new Torpex warheads. Those aerial torpedoes were much smaller and lighter than the older TNT-armed torpedoes the Yamato had been designed to resist, much smaller and lighter than modern hunter-killer sub torpedoes (and that's before you consider modern H-K torpedoes can have nuke warheads to produce massive pressure waves to rupture an opposing ship's or sub's hull).

  10. raving angry loony

    the fog of war

    Sounds awesome. I wonder if they've bothered to test it on a foggy day? I smell... marketing, trying to get yet more taxpayer money.

  11. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

    @One thing to remember about shiny defense

    That goes both ways of course.

    Unless you are intending to put the entire laser lab on a turret and have it track and point at an incoming supersonic target from a rolling ship - then you are going to have to feed the laser beam to a tracking telescope - with mirrors.

    The real pain in high power laser tech is keeping the mirror surfaces intact. Even at kW levels you need carefully matched interference coatings, spotless cleanrooms and water cooled mirrors. Even them you need to replace the mirrors regularly

    Piping a MW beam from the bowels of a ship to a tracking turret telescope is going to be 'interesting'. Of course thats just an engineering detail that the scientists don't need to worry about.

  12. Boris the Cockroach Silver badge

    I dont care

    if it works or not

    I'm off to corner the market in sharks that have been cross bred with electric eels

  13. Stephen Booth
    Grenade

    May still get funded

    The thing about zany military tech is that does not have to work all that well or be deployed in large numbers to be worth having.

    OK there are lots of ways of countering a super laser but its going to cost the other side a lot of money to develop these especially when they are not sure how well your super laser works.

    The more laser shielding you can persuade the other side to put on their missiles and planes the less effective they will be.

    Yes subs are probably immune and its probably easier to harden surface ships than planes.

    Thick armour plate would take a while to melt and might help against rail-guns too. No wonder the navy seem keen on this.

  14. Matt Bryant Silver badge
    Coat

    Good luck defeating my flock-of-seagulls-missiles!

    Hey, Obambi, send me some cash! I have a right smart idea for making robot seagulls, with artificial feathers, that act so real they even cr*p on your car and steal your fish'n'chips! Each one carries a small incendiary charge, only a few hundred grams, but I'll be sending out about a hundred at a time to crash into your ship and drop their loads (and the incendiary material too) down the funnels, vents, hatches and portholes. They won't be fast 'cos otherwise that would look suspicious, but there's no way nutters like PETA will let you toast every flock that comes within twenty clicks of a USN fleet, so I reckon I've got a good chance of getting a strike in and overwhelming your fire-fighting teams before you can get permission to toast them al out of the skyl. If you don't want me to sell my ideas to the Ruskies or the Chinese, best send me enough funds for forty-plus years of research, and I'll probably have something ready for you in 2051....

    /no, I'm putting on my labcoat, not heading for the pub, honest!

    1. Charles 9

      Real birds can be scared off.

      Most birds know better than to stick idly around when particular noises abound...such as a sound that might occur when a bird's about to be grabbed from above. Point is, there are ways to humanely make birds scatter--usually through the application of sound or directed air.

      Directed air would divert even a bird bomb (since it'd have to behave like a bird), and since it would ignore a sound-based chaser, it could be distinguished from a real bird.

  15. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Wow!

    They have experts!

    They are based in laboratories!

    Wow!

  16. Eduard Coli
    Grenade

    Nice but just so

    Outside sable rattling, impressing the locals, etc. a missile cruiser can do pretty much everything a carrier can do for less. It is the politics that keep carriers operational.

  17. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    I for one

    I for one await the Macross Cannon http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j7r25c8Ke1I

  18. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Ruse

    How can I get my enemies to spent huge amounts of money on a completely useless wild goose chase? I know, I'll issue a press release.

  19. Gotcha Lookin

    And by the way ... tunable and multiple wavelength output ...

    A free electron laser is not only tunable - but with enough power - it can deliver multiple output wavelengths as harmonics of its tunable microwave resonance cavity. The desired weapons effect is therefore not to produce just one output frequency - but can be set to group multiple EM wavelengths to pump a solid to liquid, liquid to gas, and gas to plasma - simultaneously.

    When dealing with meta-material cloaked projectiles - this ability to rapidly reset whole groups of EM output frequencies in response to observed target state changes allows the FEL / PHASER to penetrate metamaterial cloaks through plasma shock ablation.

    Simply put, with a couple of nuclear reactors behind it, a FEL/PHASER is a Star Trek disintegrator beam with potential orbital reach - especially when provided with reverse conjugate acoustic gas-phase optics to correct for atmospheric scatter. By being able to ramp thru EM frequency ranges from radio to infrared to visual to X-ray, solid phase projectiles can be simply erased in flight with a sweep of the output beam.

    This ability has special value for penetrating reinforced command and control bunkers. It would be considered a more humane penetrator than current penetrator warhead designs, since direct contact with the beam would disintegrate a human instantly. Note that secondary plasma shockwaves can be extremely damaging to surrounding human tissues and organs, with enough force to shatter bone, as well as 20 foot thick reinforced concrete walls.

    A mobile sea-based platform is ideal for the same reasons ballistic missile submarines provide deterrence. Nothing in the FEL/PHASER specs prevent it from being submarine-based. or capable of producing EM wavelengths tuned to penetrate water to submarine operational depths, or from submarine depths to orbit. Torpedo defense is possible with sufficient FEL/PHASER power at radiowave frequencies.

    Nominally, there are current space treaties preventing the use of nuclear power in near earth space for military purposes. While these treaties are honored, sea-faring FEL/PHASER systems will remain its principal mode of deployment.

    We are not talking about deadly white sharks with lasers mounted on their heads.

    We are talking about really, really, big sharks capable of running silent and running deep for months at a time with arrays of FEL/PHASERS installed into converted sea-launched ballistic missile silos. The big boomers will have a new mission protecting the fleet and near space.

  20. solaries
    Big Brother

    death dreams

    The problem is these weapons will have to be made smaller to be useful and wend that happens air craft will again be a threat to surface ships and as others have pointed out there is the good old submarine torpedoes can do the job on a surface ships thou who knows what the future holds

    1. Matt Bryant Silver badge
      Pirate

      RE: death dreams

      Immense, nuke-powered hovercraft, maybe? Torpedo-proof but still capable of carrying a useful load of weaponry. And for all the submariners, it is possible to shoot lasers through water, it's just a lot harder to do so. Should lasers reach the point where they are powerful enough and can reliably shoot down multiple airborne targets then it wouldn't take much to produce a torpedo defence, even if it was limited to a range of a kilometer or two.

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