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back to article Apple refuses frozen iPhone repair

Apple has refused to repair an iPhone 4 on the grounds that it was used in an ambient temperature below zero, in breach of the specifications. Norwegian rag Bergens Tidende reports it was -12 outside as Lenin Kristin Løvvik connected her iPhone to the car stereo for the provision of musical accompaniment on the way in to work. …

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Jobs Horns

Move to a warmer climate...

...Not that big of a deal

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Happy

Why?

Why do Americans say "not that big of a deal"- the vestigial and unnecessary "of" just sounds clumsy and gives it an awkward rhythm.

That has puzzled me of late. People who do that should be struck with the frozen corpses of people who say "we are where we are".

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It makes sense to us.

When you say it "NOT that-BIG-of-a-DEAL", it comes off the tongue pretty smoothly.

And as for "We are where we are," we tend more towards, "We are WHO we are."

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Boffin

Actually,

The colloquialism here is "no biggie" which actually does roll off the tongue quicker and smoother as well.

I, myself, have never heard it expanded out into the form of "not that big of a deal."

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Headmaster

understand?

I would have not made that post- it's not that big of a deal.

We are where we are and We are who we are, no biggie , understand?

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Because most of them theselves do not know what move to a warmer climate means

http://www.dpchallenge.com/forum.php?action=read&FORUM_THREAD_ID=905237

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Jobs Horns

Never heard it? Get with the program...

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/11/20/jobs_email/

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No biggie?

Growing up in Hawaii, I'd say "small kine" ("kine" being Pidgin for "kind" or "type"). I relocated to the U.S. mainland for work where "no biggie" is common.

Back on topic, I wasn't aware of the temperature limitations of the iPhone. I used my phone in 5F (-15C) weather and the biggest problem was trying to keep my fingers warm. On these cold mornings I miss the stylus.

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Coat

No need to move

Just wait a couple of centuries, global warming will take care of it!

The heavy one with the fur hat, please...

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Coat

why?

why did the owner say "oh yeah it was -12 and it stopped working" rather than "its knackered please fix"

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Unreasonable terms?

Isn't it unreasonable for Apple to specify an operating range of 0-35 for outdoor kit sold in Norway? Shouldn't that mean the government slaps them with a lawsuit, as Norway/Sweden have *decent* consumer rights?

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/metoo

I reckon they'll get bitten by the watchdog for this one....

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Go

They are unreasonable.

In the original Norwegian article the watchdog does indeed chime in.

They state that under the law one is safe in assuming that something sold in Norway will tolerate the Norwegian climate.

They also point out that the consumer protection law assumes device fault in the first 6 months after purchase unless the manufacturer can PROVE otherwise. So, in most cases you are pretty well protected. (Tire tracks on said iThingy might constitute proof of abuse.)

That isn't to say that companies don't try to get away with denying coverage. They do it all the time. But the consumer protection agency here is pretty good at putting the companies in their place when needed. :-)

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Anonymous Coward

Re: They are unreasonable.

"But the consumer protection agency here is pretty good at putting the companies in their place when needed."

Yes, I'm looking forward to the bit where Apple claim that their shiny products are not subject to a five year statutory warranty period, just like Nokia and pals tried to do a few years back. (In fact, Nokia and pals argued against a much shorter warranty period, the plan backfiring when it was pointed out that you'd spend less on a washing machine and get a five year warranty.)

As for the condensation excuse, this was a pretty common way for manufacturers to reject warranty claims, insinuating that somehow the punter had really put their phone in the bath and it was all their own fault. I imagine that the watchdog did a few rounds with Nokia and pals over that, as well. That Apple probably want to trot out this excuse now just shows the arrogance of that outfit.

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WTF?

Why sell to those countries?

Why does Apple sell iPhones to countries with such low temperatures if the device is unable to operate correctly?

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Really?

"I'm not going to sell to you cos it's too cold in your native country." Isn't that racist?

"You damned Eskimoes aren't allowed iPhones? Want an iPad and live in Africa? Stuff you!"

I'm kinda thinking that would be more of a PR-disaster than pointing out the working conditions when one goes wrong on a rare occasion. Temperatures in Manchester and Belfast both dropped to record lows, and my missus and I have had no problems.

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Silver badge

Intel CPU's

work @ −196 °C.

I thought the operating temperature range of the iPhone was a result of the battery operating temp range.

For Li-Polymer batteries such as used in the iPhone;

Charge 0ºC to +45ºC.

Discharge -20ºC to +60ºC.

Obviously not.

Perhaps then the restrictive operating temperature range of the iPhone is a result of the quality of the components used in it's construction.

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I have an iPAQ h4150 pocket PC

that I use as my satnav, it's about four years old, and it stays in the car overnight tucked away. When I plugged it in when the UK was having it's -15 degree season in December, I got it out of its hideyhole, its metal case was freezing cold, switched it on and plugged it in to charge, and it powered up happily and popped up a message saying something like "too cold to charge the battery - as soon as it's warm it will start charging".

Ran from plugged-in power for ten minutes then began charging.

Windows Mobile... Microsoft wins again.

(Posting as AC as I've left my asbestos suit got burnt when I told this story to the fanbois in the Apple store)

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Anonymous Coward

Quartz crystal specs

Microprocessors need a clock signal. The crystal oscillators, especially the teeny weeny ones, often don't like getting cold though they should start up again once warmed up.

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No tittle required, just a little tattle

"while the Sony Ericsson X10 reckons it's tough enough to play Angry Birds at -10 at least."

I can confirm minus 10 and it still works, connects to the net and gets a full signal.

...Mine does have a cover on it though

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g e
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Stop

Good old Apple

So, with the exception of countries near the equator, your iThing warranty is void in winter.

Just cos you claim your house was 20degC won't presumably wash, either.

Presumably this user walked from house to car, defrosted car while waiting in house then went back to toasty car. I mean, you would, right? I doubt her pocket was sub-zero, either, humans being naturally around 37degC.

It's just apple being, well... apple. i.e. 'Fuck You'

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nononono

Not TOO near the equator... Those countries may exceed 35C sometimes and void the warranty

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Happy

So...

Why doesn't Apple make new iPhones for different regions? Maybe add a qwerty keyboard for those who need one. Micro USB so that it can be charged with a standard charger. As a Micro SD slot for expansion. And of course, maybe tone down their grips on the app store so people can have some more variety in what they download.

I think that would be ace.

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One Phone To Rule Them All

A One-Size-Fits-All design is a lot easier to send down an assembly line in quantity and quicker to get to market, wherever that market may be.

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To judge from your requests

it sounds like you want an Android phone.

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Val Thorens

I was in the French alps over xmas, at it's coldest it went down to -22 and my iPhone 4 was absolutely fine, I was (perhaps irresponsibly) snowboarding while holding the camera filming in HD. It also got pretty damp too.

On a side note, while a little worse for wear, I once dropped my iPhone 3GS in a puddle. It lay completely submerged underwater, with the screen still lit up. I fished it out and wiped it on my jeans. No problems whatsoever!

The iPhone's I've had have been by far the toughest phones I've owned for this sort of thing.

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That may be so...

... but chances are that your humidity detector registered that, and whenever the thing fails, for whatever reason, you'll feel sorry.

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FAIL

Bad Apple....

Another reason to jump off the Apple bandwagon....

I've had a 3GS for about 18months and considered of upgrading to an iPhone4. When my contract is up, I'm moving as far from Apple as poss.

My phone currently reboots itself whenever it feels like - usually when I'm on a call!! O2 told me that as it is over 1yr, I will have to pay to have it repaired, even though I have a 2yr contract - thanks Apple!!! I might just argue that my contract is with O2 and not with Apple!!!

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re: Bad apple

@AC, your contract *is* with O2. It's up to them to make things right.

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1 year warranty illegal...

Since 2002, an EU directive came into force that means you have a 2 year warranty.

"So from what I understand, if something breaks within 2 years and the retailer or manufacturer claim that there is only a 1 year warranty, you just need to quote Article 5 of the EU Product Warranty Directive (1999):"

There is also the Sales of Goods act, but it's a little vague to quote since reasonable use could be 5 years, and what defines reasonable.

Are you near an Apple shop? I've always had great service when going in. I broke my 3GS on New Years day, went to the Apple shop to see how much to repair. Even though my phone was out of warranty (only a week though), as a goodwill gesture they replaced it for free :-)

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Pint

Interesting

All I can say is that I have taken my iPod Touch from a home around +16C, out to a car of around -9C, warmed up the car to around +5C and used it to play music for a couple of hours on journeys. I have on two occasions I can recall ,left the iPod Touch in the car overnight, dropping to around -4C, gone out when the temperature reached +2C and switched it on and driven to places. Each time the iPod felt "cold and clammy" but each time it has worked flawlessly

Sounds like she might have had in -12C then got it stuck in front of the warm blowers subjecting it to a very rapid heat rise. I am not sticking up for Apple as I know they can be complete scumbags when it suits them to stick by the rules, but there are some details missing from all this that don't add up.

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Jobs Horns

Shoddy Merchandise

The answer is simple, stop following techno-fashion and dump that Apple crud into the waste bin

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Meh

I thought this was a story about 1 phone which failed in Norway, and that it was potentially down to the cold, although quite why the phone would be so far below zero doesn't make entire sence. I keep my phone in my pocket, which keeps it above freezing, in a handbag it would still likely be above freezing.

But from some of the posts on here you'd think every phone in Norway had broke.

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Apple customer support has lost its way

You would have thought that Apple of all people would like to keep its customers loyal and happy. But now they have gotten sooo big, perhaps its customer support have forgotten the old days when every mac user was important.

Apple. Sorry you've turned so sour. you used to be so sweet!

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Coat

Gone Rotten, maybe?

Gettit, rotten, apple, rotten apple?

The one with the pear in the pocket, ta.

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FAIL

If...

...your device is not specced to operate in the temperature range an area frequently inhabits, don't sell it there.

...you sell me a device in a given geographic area, I'm going to assume it can operate in the conditions one normally expects to find there.

Apple fails. Again.

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Hmm...

"...you sell me a device in a given geographic area, I'm going to assume..."

Whilst I sympathise with the customer mentioned in the article, I can't sympathise with this statement.

You know what the bofh says:

"Assume makes an ASS out of U"

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@ AC 16:18

This assumption, the law requires that I be able to make. It's called fitness for market.

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Jobs Horns

Apple warranties are like Allstate - The Good Hands People - Rarely On Your Side

Apple is always cheating someone of their warranties, just like the reputation of Allstate, whose adverts show a pair cupped hands purportedly to save you but as the late Allan King demonstrated, the 'safe' hands evaporated when an insured submitted a claim.

Apple has demanded non-disclosure agreements of claimants, denied there are battery problems (except in Japan when the government knocked on Apples door), refused to repair equipment subjected to smoking environments, etc., etc.

In two words, Apple is a "fraud artist".

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It's her fault

Where does it say in the manual that she can use it in a car?

Silly woman...

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Surely not!

I saw -13.5 outside my house in a village nr hull... i had cause to use my phone for a 3 minute call and 2 text messages and was out in the weather for about 45 minutes... miraculously my bricklike Nokia N900 survived fine. Can see the advantages in building a phone in Finland over Cupertino, California... -12 doesnt seem that cold tho, do iphones routinely fail at this temperature??

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Bronze badge

Which begs the question.......

.....of why Apple submitted a patent for a pair of winter gloves with little rubber caps so you could use their touch devices in cold weather?

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So...

This is the same Iphone for which Apple happily approves all kinds of Skiing apps?

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Jobs Halo

normal apple isuer

Something has gone wrong, it cant be my fault!

Electrics do work 'better' at lower temps (to an extent) its the moisture/condensation.... that buggers things

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Boffin

It will be cheap components

It will be cheap components and that includes the PCB.

Yes, some electronics do work better if you cool them a little, but other work better when warmer.

Condensation may well have had a significant part to play also.

My hardware boots up at -60C, or +90, at 100% humidity, and in balistic shock situations.

Many of the chips (processors and GPUs for instance) are only available in commercial temperature ranges, but buy good quality components, treat them properly, design using good quality PCB's, and a number of other techniques which I had better not discuss, and these temperature ranges are just about possible. (-40 to +80 is easy!)

[There's no better demonstration to a customer than taking a board, encased in a block of ice out of an industrial freezer, powering it on, and knocking the ice off with a hammer while it is running a complex graphics simulation!]

AC because unlike Lewis Page, I know that DARPA are not all mad.

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Merchantable Quality or Something Like that.

If you sell a phone in a country where the temperature regularly drops below 0 during winter, as a consumer you would expect the product to function in normal weather conditions.

Sounds like Lenin Kristin Løvvik should check on iPhone failures in Canada, Northern US States, Finland, Sweden, Iceland etc.

And should also go for the people who sold it to her, because, one assumes they were in Norway, and should understand the Norwegian climate.

The idea of a mobile phone is that it is mobile, and pretty much any time any place any where.

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Moisture damage

The poor thing died form excessive condensation build up which I'm pretty sure is going to be a problem with any phone, though I guess more so ones made out of alu and glass. The problem is Apple's attitude to water damage, but it's hard to suggest they should toe the opposite line and fix every phone that's water damaged for free.

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Coat

"...while the Sony Ericsson X10 reckons it's tough enough to play Angry Birds at -10 at least..."

...but never on anything above Android 2.1 'cos SE have a new phone out to focus on so forget about all the X10 owners...

OK, off topic, I'll leave...mine's the one with the 10 month old £500 handset that SE have given up on in the pocket...

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Stop

You forgot to add...

which you can't change for another 14 months because of the stupidity of 12-month contracts!

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