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back to article Toyota Auris hybrid e-car

It's hard not to feel a little sorry for Toyota. Over the years the Prius – reviewed here – has not only been a healthy sales success, but the name has become synonymous with hybrid motoring technology. Toyota Auris Hybrid hatch: Toyota's Auris Yet still, the hard-of-thinking and loud-of-mouth insist on telling anyone …

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  1. Chris Miller

    It would be interesting* to know

    How far you have to drive in order to recoup the extra purchase price compared to a standard car. Back of an envelope suggests that if you travel a fairly typical 12,000 miles a year, then 60mpg against 40mpg** will save you 100 gallons or around £500 at current UK prices. So if it costs an extra £5,000 you'll take 10 years to get your money back. (In the US where petrol is less than half the price, it will take much longer.) A fuller analysis would take into account maintenance costs and taxation, but I don't think it would make an order of magnitude difference.

    * for suitably low values of 'interesting'

    ** ignoring the fact that you can get a standard diesel that should give you 60mpg - but even my 2 litre turbo gives me better than 40mpg on long journeys

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    1. annodomini2
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      +Servicing

      You're not accounting for servicing, all the extra components and specialist knowledge and tools required

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      1. Geoff Campbell Silver badge
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        FAIL

        Servicing costs for a Prius

        Are pretty much on a par with other similar cars, and quite possibly lower due to lack of brake wear. In fact the new Prius has a completely belt-free engine, reducing service costs further. The batteries and electric drive have no service requirements.

        GJC

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        1. MrT
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          Just wondering...

          ... if anyone in the dealership has quoted life and replacement costs for the battery pack? Also, do Toyota warranty all the hybrid stuff for life? Things break down (not just the battery pack degrading but more regular things like age, wear and tear etc) and all the extras will add to the upkeep if they need attention.

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  2. John 62

    economical because of congestion

    Hybrids are only economical in congested areas where you can drive mostly on battery power with the engine kicking in to recharge the battery or give a bit more sustained acceleration. With a big petrol engine and its fuel tank and electric motors and their batteries and the transmission needed to combine the output, that's a lot of extra weight to carry around.

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    1. Geoff Campbell Silver badge
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      Boffin

      That's bollocks....

      ....if you'll excuse the bluntness.

      My current commute is 80 miles, initially on hilly rural Welsh roads, then on a free-flowing M4. I get an average of 60mpg, as I've said.

      Oh, and the Prius weighs 1.4 tonnes, very light for a car in this class.

      Anything else you'd like me to help you with?

      GJC

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      1. John 62
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        remove the batteries

        you could get even more miles to the gallon!

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        1. Geoff Campbell Silver badge
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          Flame

          Really?

          The batteries are a useful energy reservoir, allowing the capture of energy that would normally go to heating up rhe brake components, which is then re-used for acceleration, reducing MPG.

          The oft-heard cry of "but it would be more fuel efficient without the weight of the batteries" is, once again, complete bollocks, and doubly so for congested routes where I can negotiate traffic jams using no fuel at all.

          GJC

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          1. Parax
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            Boffin

            re: Really

            Charged by Braking, I think you'll find that was the OP's point. if the car just drives steady (say on a motorway) it cannot charge from braking and having batteries is just a pointless load. capture of momentum energy storage and re-release - by definition requires stop-start conditions. ie normal city traffic.

            Geoff nobody is doubting your mpg the pruis is efficent, but its regen ability IS designed for stop-start. as OP suggests. and if you only drive steady on motorways you really dont need the batteries.

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            1. Geoff Campbell Silver badge
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              Boffin

              Really, again?

              I've been watching the regen meter on mine. It does generate charge in the batteries on the motorway, and it also uses that charge. Motorways aren't flat, and the regen braking doesn't only work when you hit the brake pedal, it also cuts in on closed or near-closed throttle positions.

              But, yes, the system works better in stop-start than cruising at a steady speed on the motorway. However, at a steady speed on the motorway, the weight of the batteries is irrelevant anyway.

              GJC

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  3. Simon Redding
    WTF?

    So where do I plug it in?

    I've got a 3500Wp solar farm on my house roof. How do I connect this useless bit of petrol-driven junk to it to drive on sun-power?

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    1. Geoff Campbell Silver badge
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      Thumb Up

      There are plenty of kits available

      To give the Prius a much extended electric-only range, with plug-in charging. But rumour has it that Toyota are releasing a plug-in version shortly anyway, I saw a prototype a while ago at a car show.

      GJC

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    2. Anonymous Coward
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      Boffin

      re: So where do I plug it in?

      Well if you're at work during the day it's a bit pointless isn't it! Get work to put cells on the roof, instead, then you can charge the leccy car whilst the sun is out.

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  4. Alex King
    FAIL

    Motorbike

    My chosen commuter vehicle gets me 80+mpg on a 7 mile commute, and I promise I'm not holding up any of the gridlocked cars that I pass.

    Really, the only reason for buying a hybrid is if you want to spend less on fuel in a country that doesn't really 'do' diesel, like the US of A. In the UK they're pointless, based on an economy or pollution basis.

    Just from memory, here's some cars in the Prius/Auris size class with diesel engines that do comparable or better MPG:

    Volvo C30/S40/V40 1.6D

    Mazda 3 1.6D

    Ford Focus 1.6D

    VW Golf 1.6D Bluemotion

    Seat Leon 1.6TDi Ecomotive

    Vauxhall Astra 1.3CDti Ecoflex

    etc. etc.

    If this makes me loudmouthed and hard-of-thinking, then sign me up.

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  5. Bassey

    Strange

    I'm finding a lot of the comments on here quite strange - mainly the diesel ones. What's the point of getting "equivalent mileage" out of a diesel when diesel fuel costs 5-7% more than petrol? You aren't saving any money. You're paying 5-7% more.

    Anyway, you can buy plenty of petrol cars with ridiculous fuel economy figures now. The Focus Eco does 76mpg, the fiesta 84mpg. The VW Polo bluemax does over 80mpg so why get a revolting diesel and pay more for the fuel?

    And, as has been mentioned, you are actually far better getting a car that fits. I drive an i10. A tiny car from the outside but I HAVE had four adults in (I'm 6'4 and another was 6'2) with relative comfort plus I'm lugging around a ton* of mountain rescue gear wherever I go. We have two kids, I drive 12k miles and year and it does just fine.

    But the biggest savings come from lift sharing. I lift share with two other people in my village who basically pay my petrol so it only costs me road tax (bugger all), insurance (bugger all) servicing (actually, quite expensive over here) and depreciation. All in all about £1k/year.

    * slight exaggeration

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    1. Alex King
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      Unhappy

      Umm

      Those examples you've given are diesel...

      Never mind though, I'm sure your point still stands...

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    2. Anonymous Coward
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      Anonymous Coward

      One point, multiple fail.

      "I'm finding a lot of the comments on here quite strange - mainly the diesel ones. What's the point of getting "equivalent mileage" out of a diesel when diesel fuel costs 5-7% more than petrol? You aren't saving any money. You're paying 5-7% more."

      Fail 1: The Prius/Auris hybrids are not about saving money, if they were about saving money they are a total failure. Costing, as they do, at least £5K more than a similar IC powered car. They are supposed to be about saving the planet from CO2 as such their cost is irrelevant, but so is the cost of diesel.

      Fail 2: We're not talking about similar fueld economy. There are clean diesels around that can beat these hybrids by considerably more than your 7% (BTW the price difference is 3p at my local garage - about 2.5%) so they will tend to produce correspondingly less CO2 emissions while still saving money on fuel.

      The matter of a diesel Prius is, however, probably explained by the fact that it is primarilly a US market car. Perhaps the more European focused Auris will encourage Toyota to build a diesel version which would almost certainly beat the petrol version on economy.

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  6. Alan Brown Silver badge

    Re: economical because of congestion

    Hybrids kick everything else's arse (even with the new stop/start systems that are becoming common) in congestion/stop start/school run/city driving/3 mile shopping runs - and that's probably the ENTIRE operation mode of at least 2/3 of the UK passenger car fleet.

    On the open road they're not so wonderful because of the weight, but the electrics can give you a kick in the pants when it's needed for passing/hills, etc

    How much open road driving do you do and how much tootling around town, to the shops, work, etc etc etc?

    If it suits your lifestyle, buy it. If not, then don't. Wanking on about how your econobox gets 60-80mpg on the motorway is of no use if its real consumption is 30-40mpg in short haul commutes. Hybrids are aimed for that usage cycle - and they'll have lower engine maintenance costs because once the engine starts the computer systems won't turn it off until it's thoroughly warmed up and won't let you mistreat it when its cold.

    That said: The batteries are a huge problem. A hell of a lot more R&D into chemical energy storage systems is required. Tossing waste heat overboard because the system can't regenerate fast enough on long hills or heavy braking is still an issue too - better/larger supercapacitor staging would likely help that but right now that would drive the cost up even further.

    I wonder if an atkins/miller cycle is adaptable to diesel

    How about using an exhaust turbogenerator/supercharger setup to catch as much as possible going out the pipe and provide more stick when it's really needed? (GM trialled using exhaust turbogenerators instead of belt driven generators in the 50s but decided that it was easier to stick with proven technology. The split system is currently being touted merely as a way of getting completely away from turbo lag but if you have it, you no longer need as many belt-driven accessories.)

    (In other news a Wankel-based diesel is doing the rounds as a possible aeromotive/military transportengine. If that comes to civilian engines it could get interesting.)

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