back to article Jobs dubs Google's 'open' Android speak 'disingenuous'

Apple cult leader Steve Jobs has hit back at Eric Schmidt over the Google boss' repeated claims that Google is "open" and Apple is "closed." During a surprise appearance on Apple's quarterly earnings call on Monday afternoon — "I couldn't help dropping by for our first $20bn quarter" — Jobs called Schmidt's characterization " …

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Silver badge

Ahem.

"please note the spelling; after all, you're the one claiming to be an expert"

I make it a point to never claim to be an expert.

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One thing Steve forgets...

Fragmentation does not matter too much when the phones get bought and discar...er,recycled by the consumers faster than they get bored by the particular app store it works with (provided they even see apps at all important - most people I know don't). The difference with iPhone and others is that the others don't cost an arm and a leg, so people don't cling to them so much.

I notice that the Chinese grey market web shops are nowadays full of cheap Android phones, these are unlikely to be tallied by anyone. As Android costs nothing to no-name manufacturers while stile providing a good use experience, this alone may make it beat all other phone OSes in the long run.

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IT Angle

Perhaps I was just young and idealistic...

but I remember a time when CEOs said stuff that defined their companies, told us what to expect, excited us even. Now, between Jobs, Ellison, Ballmer, Schmidt. all we get is this laughable doublespeak. How they manage to lead an organisation rather than just cause baldness through endless head-scratching I do not know.

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Go

Yeah,

doublespeak and political correctness. What the fuck wrong with these bastards?

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Stop

Playground business

Blah, blah, blah, they're smelly, we hate them, we're more popular.

All the major players seem to be doing this these days, it's like kids in a playground.

Please, give us something useful to listen to. Explain how the companies are so great by extolling your virtues, NOT by highlighting the others failings.

Either that or SHUT THE FUCK UP!

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dct
Stop

openness and trash talk

Android ISN'T free to "no-name" manufacturers, except that they don't put their names on devices and hence avoid paying license fees to Google. And those chineese phones ABSOLUTLY don't provide a "good use" experience. HTC and the like don't put their own UI's on for the fun of it - they do it because those generic devices suck (anyone want to swap my "open" Android Tablet I got in China for one of their nasty closed iPads? - come on... It runs 1.6 but I'm sure you could upgrade it cause its "open"... thought not... didn't think anyone REALLY thought they were as good as iPads).

As for lock down - how is an Android phone OK because they're "hackable", but an iPhone not because you have to "jailbreak" it? Same approach by manufacturers, same effect on consumers, and same trick to get round the problem, giving the same result.

Yes - Steve should do better than trash-talking the opposition. It's no cooler when he does it than when Ballmer does it, but Android is not "open" to any usefull degree.

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You are confusing...

The openness of Android, with the closed nature of the hardware it runs on.

Android is open. You can download the OS source, and recompile it to your hearts content. Whether you can then make it run on the closed hardware you have is another matter.

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Yes it is free

Android can be downloaded, built and installed on any device with Google's permission or not. Someone could ship an Android decked out with Yahoo or Bing apps if such things existed. That's why you see no-name devices because there is no obligation to licence the tech or pay Google any money. Your crappy Chinese tablet exists precisely because Android is open.

Where Google tries to exert its influence is by only granting access to the market place app and Google's own apps to devices that are certified as compatible as laid out in the Compatibility Definition Document. If a device is compatible and passes the compliance test suite they get the market place app and access to the Google apps. That's good for Google because they get extra revenue and the incentive of the extra apps keeps the platform cohesive.

Unfortunately the 2.2 CDD is pitched at smart phones which is why a number of tablets are not compatible at the moment. If this situation were left to continue I expect the platform would fragment because devices which do not implement smart phone features like GPS, compass etc cannot be compliant the way it stands. I expect this deficiency will be addressed by 3.0 which will probably classify different device profiles. The android dev blog is already laying track for this with articles about how to detect and use optional devices, cope with larger screen sizes. The sooner it happens the better.

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FAIL

All Your Handset Are Belong To Us

Steve appears to baulk at the notion that there are 244 types of handset for developers to contend with.

Wouldn't life be so much easier all round if there was only one type of handset in the world? Perhaps one with an Apple logo on it?

There you go. Problem solved.

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Pot, meet kettle

He says you're black

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Joke

"With over 300,000 apps on Apple's app store,

RIM has a high mountain ahead of them to climb."

Apple did have a lot of help scaling those heady heights. I mean the amount of methane in a lot of those apps adds up to a truckload of buoyancy!

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Fart away

Funny, but also true.

It seems all the other manufacturers have spent years making it their business to produce 'tat', which left the market open for someone to come in with a 'just works' device and clean up.

I love my iphone 4 (even with it's occasional problem), but just can't see any device I would like to own more.

Yes there are a few HTC (and other?) models that compete technically, but with all their 'issues' I still don't see anything more worth my pennies.

It's unfortunate that I can't have some of the openness that Android supplies, but I'm willing to give that up for a device that has, so far, caused me ZERO problems. No crashes, no dropped calls, no grip of death dropouts (although the bars do go down if I hold it wrong :)

I'm more than willing to look at the latest bunch of Android models in approx 20ish months when my contract finishes, so let's hope Android/Blackberry/Apple/Microsoft/whoever use the time between then to make their handsets even better. Good times ahead.

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Coat

Idiot

Steve Jobs claims the iPhone is not a closed system. He probably thinks you are all holding in wrong!

I have never heard so much crap in my life. Android is an open system. So open it allows people to add their own user interfaces to it. The Android base is still the same! Ok, there are different versions of Android out there but then there are different versions of iOS out there.

The guy is desperate, otherwise he wouldn't conflate the iPhone, iPad and iPod activation numbers to compare them to Googles Android activations, would he!

/Mines the one with the fragmented pockets.

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Anonymous Coward

Living under a bridge

And yet you spend time reading and then commenting.

Trollmuch?

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Jobs Horns

Doublespeak translated...

I think what Steve Jobs meant was "Android brings you choice. Choice is BAD. Choice makes you have to make decisions. Decisions are BAD. They are too complicated for you and you wouldn't understand. The more you have to make the greater the chance you will make a mistake. Mistakes are dangerous. We protect you from this danger; We bring you a single handset so you don't have to stand in the shop with everyone looking whilst you decide what to buy. We bring you a single app store so you're protected from having to go on the Internet and choose where to buy from and from making the mistake of giving the wrong company money.. We will even protect you by removing apps from your device if we think you've made the wrong choice.

Curl up nice and warm. you're safe now. We're here to protect you. Trust us."

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Linux

This is some form of title

When I hear the word 'Open' I certainly do not think of Windows, unless it's the summertime.

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Gates Halo

He's discussing the average man on the street, not geeks

The average bloke out there doesn't give a flying donkey cock about open source or whatever, and likely doesn't know what it is. To him, yes, windows is the definition of open. To him, the iphone is effectively open - he can go on the app store and install pretty much whatever he wants on it. Can he get root access? He doesn't know or care.

The geek minority is going to be incensed by all this, but the actual point is going to go way over the heads of most of them. The finance people (who he was talking to at the time) will mostly get it. Apple is a mass-market company, they're not catering to the geeks, and Jobs isn't discussing the geek meaning of open here.

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Damn!

My Ford truck is closed! I can't make a Chevrolet key work in it or for that matter my wife's Explorer key. Or battery, or seats, or hell anything that's not either custom designed or OEM. Just damn! My beloved 1999 Ford truck is an iPhone. But as a driver and not a design engineer I just don't give a damn. I just drive it and enjoy it's features and grow older with it under my butt getting me to the apps sto .... er no ... the gun store. And damn again! Glocks are iPhones too! Frakk, I need to stop thinking about this. Pretty soon my bride will be an iPhone. Thank God she's not from Stepford. Oh frakk!

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Windows open is not iPad open

Windows lets me download and install apps from anywhere I please. So does OS X for that matter. How can you possibly equate the openness of Windows to the iPad where you get exactly one store to connect to and there are an entire raft of other restrictions built into the device.

I think this "average bloke" would get it quite fast if you said to them that Android offers a great deal more freedom, from the device's price, form factor and features, to the apps you are allowed to install, to where you get your apps from, to the files the device permits you to copy to the device, to ability to play things like DIVX movies on many devices, to allowing things like tethering in unlocked phones. And so on.

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WTF?

OMG I NEEEEEEEED DivX for my pr0n and pirate movies!!!!

" I think this "average bloke" would get it quite fast if you said to them that Android offers a great deal more freedom "

Really ? Go try it and watch how fast their eyes glaze over.

Oh, and you can play DivX movies on iOS. CineXPlayer, VLC.

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Doublespeak

So integrated == locked down, and fragmented == open. This truly is double-speak as he isn't stating anything new, just applying new terms by twisting them to fit a new meaning...

Although this may not be the case here, I would have thought a lot of 'fragmentation' comes from the nature of open-source being that anyone can branch anything. Hell, you can branch a piece of open source software a thousand unnecessary times. They may be unnecessary but I'm still happy that I have the option if I want to make positive changes to software.

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Android the platform is open although implementations may not be

All of the source necessary to produce an android device is right there for download. So yes it is open Mr Jobs. Even commercial distributions of Android that wish to be "compliant" must also conform to certain guidelines which allow users the freedom to chop and change the OS, such as by replacing the default apps.

As far as fragmentation is concerned, I think Android will be fine. Devs do not code to some random Android branch, they code to 2.1, 2.2, or 1.6. As APIs are forwards compatible, a dev states the bare minimum API level their app requires in a manifest and then they code to that. We've seen pie charts from TweetDeck which make the situation look far worse than it is. Most of the supposed branches of Android are just people who've downloaded the source code and built it on their home PCs. The build process *asks* for a branch name when you build the source which would explain why a huge raft of branches turn up Tweetdecks stats.

As for 7" tablets, I think he may be right that they are cramped and 10" is going to be more spacious but then again claiming you can do nothing with smaller devices is utterly absurd. Personal media players (for example) would be pretty stupid if they were 10" in size. 10" may also be too large and cumbersome for kids. It might also be too big for comfortably using on a beach or on a plane.

Then look how much iPads cost. There are Android tablets for ONE FIFTH the price of an iPad. Crappy devices to be sure but precursors of where the market are going. There will be completely functional, reasonable quality tablet devices possibly sporting 9-10" screens in the $200-300 range before long.

In summary I think Jobs is getting a bit touchy. Sales of iPads have been good (over 4 million sold which is a lot of iPads) but they fell short of analysts expectations. Apple's head start is over so perhaps analysts think the free lunch is too.

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Boffin

It's (not) the API, stupid

"I think Android will be fine. Devs do not code to some random Android branch, they code to 2.1, 2.2, or 1.6. As APIs are forwards compatible, a dev states the bare minimum API level their app requires in a manifest and then they code to that"

So what ? The WinMo API was stable for a long time. The problem - or rather the additional challenge - is that you have to contend with the number of different devices with disparate specs in terms of things like screen size, resolution, battery life, storage capacity, CPU speed, etc, etc.

Dealing with some of these things is not impossible, but it does add extra complications to the design and coding process. And even when you've taken as many of them into account as possible, the diversity of hardware means that sooner or later you're going to lumber some users with a shitty UX.

And when that happens, users will think their phone is shitty and/or that your app is shitty, when in fact there isn't anything wrong with either, they just happen to be mismatched.

Those of us with slightly longer memories and more mobile development experience than the average Reg commentard remember this kind of pain from the WinMo days, which is why we keep banging on about fragmentation.

The WinMo comparison stands further examination, because of course the handset OEMs actually built their own versions - making MS driven updates all but impossible - provided their own (often flaky) drivers and inserted their own crudware to the detriment of the platform.

Android is of course susceptible to these very same things, by virtue of it's very openness,

This is not to say that Android is bad, wrong, or will fail, far from it. Simply that it has these additional challenges to overcome and there is historical precedent to suggest that not dealing with them gracefully can result in serious problems.

Why do you think MS, with all this experience from their foray onto the market, have chosen to ape Apple's model ?

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Most of those things don't matter

"So what ? The WinMo API was stable for a long time. The problem - or rather the additional challenge - is that you have to contend with the number of different devices with disparate specs in terms of things like screen size, resolution, battery life, storage capacity, CPU speed, etc, etc."

Screen size - Not much different from iOS really. Android will pick the best layout from those your app implements. If your app has minimum dimensions you can say so in the manifest. If you want to target a specific layout (e.g. a tablet), you can do so by writing a new XML file. Same as issues facing apps when targetting iPhone / iPad really

Resolution - I'll take this to mean screen density since resolution / screen size produces DPI. Android works in device independent pixels for the most part. If you insert an image in pixels which is smaller than the space required in dips, Android will upscale the image. Alternatively you can specify different images for different densities, or use scalable svg graphics.

Battery life - most apps don't care, although most app developers regardless of platform should be conscious of not having their app consuming CPU or bandwidth 24/7. If your app eats the battery you can bet it will get uninstalled.

Storage - No different from any other platform. An iPhone could be short on space and app might fail to write a file out. Apps on any platform need to check or cope gracefully when files cannot be written out.

CPU speed - Not hugely different from the same issue faced by games on Windows, OS X, iOS, Linux etc. and resolved in a similar way - a game loop that processes, updates and renders the world as fast as possible. The time difference between one iteration and the next determines how granular the animation / physics etc. is.

"hardware means that sooner or later you're going to lumber some users with a shitty UX."

Android provides tools to help cope with different layouts, screen densities and the market place app filters out apps that don't match your device's criteria. If by chance an app doesn't work properly on a device... well it's a self correcting issue. Your app will be uninstalled from those phones or downrated into oblivion. Survival of the fittest etc.

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FAIL

Yes, yes you did

Just repeat the exact same points I made, only without the reality.

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locked into the playground or free to roam?

I'm delighted with my £80 (if you try hard enough, list is £99) San Francisco Android PAYG. £400 for iPhone PAYG just ain't going to happen for me. And I'm bright enough to calculate that the alternative of iPhone for £99 plus £35 a month for 2 years on contract comes to £929 - and at that cost I'd need to take out insurance adding a bit more to the price.

Maybe if you use a mobile a lot and can justify £35 a month on contract just for the calls iPhone becomes competitive but for me £10 a month on calls/data is fine - I'll have had 2 years use for a third of the iPhone cost. If I write off my S-F or have it stolen I'm not stuck with the contract, and a repIacement phone is only £80.

If iPhone is so great why are people jailbreaking it? Those are the guys who made the wrong purchase, they need Android.

Alternatively if you go Android but want to play safe then don't root the phone and just stick with your service providers walled garden app shop.

As a developer maybe the Android platform is more fragmented than Apple but I can publish anything I want, I don't have to pay the apple tax nor seek their approval.

This is Mac vs PC all over again, same issue: choose between paying a premium for being locked into the playground or free to roam, more risks but more choice, more benefits and cheaper. And after 20 years of Mac/PC which business model has proven the most popular?

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Ah the price premium argument yet again, with knobs on

"As a developer maybe the Android platform is more fragmented than Apple but I can publish anything I want, I don't have to pay the apple tax"

$99/year is a tiny fraction of the overheads for a professional developer - if you expect people to be paying for your apps.

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Flame

@Rob

"This is Mac vs PC all over again, same issue: choose between paying a premium for being locked into the playground or free to roam, more risks but more choice, more benefits and cheaper. And after 20 years of Mac/PC which business model has proven the most popular?"

Pure sophistry old Son.

I've been a happy Mac user for over 20 years because I've always found the MacOS to be IMHO easier to use and more stable than the various contemporary versions of Windows.

"Locked into the playground"???

I haven't yet found anything I want to do with my Macs that I can't, or that would necessitate acquiring a Windows machine. There may be more variations of standard software types written for Windows as a platform, but how many spreadsheets, or word processors do you need to run? 14 of each?

I couldn't care what others use, but a lucid cogent argument would be preferable to the blind tribal rant which does characterise so many MAC-PC discussions.

When these 'discussions' degenerate (all too often) into yar-boo-sucks name-calling, I switch off. As long as I'm happy with my preferred choice, and it continues to be available, I'm happy. I really don't care if others are using Windows, Linux or even nursing CPM/86 machines, or DEC PDPs.

Enjoy what you've chosen, get a life and accept that others might differ.

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The title is required, and must contain letters and/or digits.

Too true matey.

Far too many people take this tribalism too seriously.

Use the correct tool for the job. The last thing I want to do is have to mess/fix problems when I'm not at work, so I chose a device to suit my needs.

Plenty more people want more options/don't mind messing/fixing/etc. Good on 'em.

My life, however, is too short and my time too precious to waste it fighting with a fucking phone.

(That's what PCs are for isn't it?)

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Anonymous Coward

ah...but do you switch off?

...or do you spend 1000 keystrokes telling everyone how you're above tribal ranting?

...just before saying "get a life"?

(faceplant)

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Thumb Up

He has a point.

Just about a year ago I invested in my first smartphone, the much anticipated, and much hyped G1, only to discover that the phone was obsolete a third of the way through the contract. Eventually it was upgraded to android 1.6, but that was it.

By rooting my phone and Installing Cyanogen mods I have managed to keep the software fairly current, but this is without the support of the provider (T-Mobile), who insisted that the G1 was incapable of >1.6.

Despite this, I may have considered another Android phone, until I bought an iPad anyway. I had always avoided Apple as being overpriced, but I have always liked the idea of a small touch controlled table device, and the iPad seemed to push all the right buttons for me. I had one or two doubts concerning for example the lack of adobe flash, but bought one anyway (The fact that the promised flash lite on the G1 never materialised showed me that I can easily live without).

Ultimately Apple, through the iPad, have gained a convert, and next month when my contract expires I'll be getting an iPhone 4. I do like iOS and the benefits far outway the cons. I expect that the phone will be supported by Apple for at least the length of the contract.

I know that the iPhone4 is expensive, but no more than a high end Android phone, that may or may not have the latest Android version, and may or may not get updates.

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I had a dream...

...that I was poisoned and had to milk Steve Jobs' moobs daily for the antidote.

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FAIL

Android Versions

"Jobs went on to say that when TweetDeck recently launched its Twitter client on Android, it had to contend with 100 different version of Android and 244 different handsets. "The multiple hardware and software iterations present developers with a daunting challenge," he said. "Many Android apps work only on selected Android handsets running selected Android versions, and this is for handsets that were shipped less than 12 months ago.""

Tweetdeck didn't have to "contend" with 100 different versions of Android. It was beta tested by users running 100 different versions of Android. No-one is checking that it works on all 100 versions. Tweetdeck's beta programme would have been more about functionality, bugs etc.

This "fragmentation" issue is, to anyone who's read about Android development, a massive exaggeration. When you build an app, you specify the required minimum version features (in the manifest). If your device doesn't support the feature, it doesn't even show in the store to download. In your app, you can query what features the device has, or will let you have at a more granular level. The view model is designed around not having to worry about pixel resolution. You can if you like, but generally, you should really use percentages of the screen space.

All of this means that you actually don't have to test on lots of devices. It's probably worth checking resolution on a couple of devices to make sure you've got your views set up right, and then to release it.

The other good thing for developers is, of course, that you can do small scale beta testing, which you can't on iOS.

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Jobs Horns

git

the arial issue with the iPhone 4 is exactly where his view is wrong.

If HTC for example brought out a crap Android phone, you just buy a different one, you still get the goodness.

If your iPhone doesnt work you told to sod off, what choice do the users have? Even when they admit fault by offering a case to fix the issue the phone doesnt apparently have.

Apple users are such saps. Look at the stagnent Mac platform, its had so little development its still in the dark ages. they didnt even support a stadard UK keyboard untill a couple of years ago, and im not sure if they do now. But if you asked them to fix it they would tell you to buy apple rubbish, and go f$$$ yourself if you wanted them to actually support a setup used by millions of people.

I he dies in horrible pain with an iPhone shoved up his arse.

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Anonymous Coward

STOP THE PRESS

CEO comes out battling for his own company as it announces it best ever quarter to a group of analysts!

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Jobs Horns

Jobs: " I don't see them catching up to us in the foreseable future ..."

Maybe this is a case of myopic vision.

Jonathan Swift said "There’s none so blind as they that won’t see."

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Anonymous Coward

The title is required, and must contain letters and/or digits.

I usually disagree with almost everything you say, but this time you are probably correct.

Just as with the phones/laptops/computers, there will always be a market position for a low-end (inexpensive) and the high-end (expensive as hell) product.

Android might be able to cover both ends. Maybe. But probably not.

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Android already covers both ends, and the middle too

There are cheap-as-chips low-end phones running Android, and at the other end there are the Nexus One, HTC Desire, HTC Desire HD, Samsung Galaxy S, etc - all of which are considerably better than the iPhone 3GS and some of which are better than the iPhone 4. I've even seen video of Android running on an iPhone, although I have no guarantees of the vid's authenticity.

Use whatever phone you want and whatever OS you want, just remember Android already has the whole spectrum covered.

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Jobs Horns

I know the phrase 'open' has taken a beating this past year or two, but..

To say

"The first thing most of us think about when we hear the word “open” is Windows..."

Is a bit of a stretch, even if you do have the FUD inducing RDF turned up to 11!

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Jobs Halo

hate to say it but jobs is right about android

Android may be open for the device manufacturers, but that just gives idiot distributors even more freedom to screw it up for the consumer.

I bought the wife an HTC Tattoo here in Dubai. The local HTC distributor, in his infinite wisdom, loads EVERY SINGLE HTC Android device sold in the middle east with a nice app which 5 times each day will start up the GPS, find Mecca and then sound the call to prayer rather loudly so you don't forget to do your duty.

Just in case you accidentally risk eternal damnation by accidentally turning the app off, it has no 'off' switch. If the phone is on, rest assured you'll be woken up at 6.15am (and have meetings and movies and whatever else ruined 4 more times during the day) to ensure you get yourself to the mosque.

In fact, the HTC distributor has done the extra mile to keep us all out of Hades by thoughtfully blasting this app onto the device's ROM, so you cannot uninstall it with anything other than perhaps 'rooting' it (like the average punter is going to be able to do this).

HTC's support line in the UAE advised me that the app cannot be turned off and cannot be uninstalled. The helpful man advised that I take it back to the store, complain, and then buy one next time I am in Europe which hopefully won't be ruined by such a ridiculous software installation.

I am not a fan of jobs, but to be fair even apple would not stoop to crippling a phone with such an app just because of a puritanical whim of the someone in the supply chain.

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Silver badge

But But But

What you have described has nothing to do with Android.....its solely a problem with the distributor.

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Think Hi-Fi separates.

In the good old days, when dinosaurs roamed the Earth and "Windows" wasn't a curse word, people listened to these things called "records", recorded by chiselling vibrations into plastic. (Or, if you were *really* old: shellac.)

These "record players" were read-only devices—nobody ever got around to inventing an "LP-R", or, indeed, an "LP+R", "LP-RW" or "LP+RW". To record their own (for which, read: "pre-recorded, commercial") music, a separate medium involving rusted metal smeared along a plastic tape was created, known as a "cassette tape recorder".

These devices needed to be connected to amplifiers that, in turn, connected to the loudspeakers. And manufacturers also produced radios that could share these same amplifier units too.

So manufacturers came up with a whizzo idea: create a standard width for these units—say, about 19 inches—and sell them to customers. Thus the hi-fi "separates" stack was born. Musos, audiophiles and the like *loved* them, even though it meant having to wrestle three or four remote controls into submission just to listen to a track.

Joe Public, on the other hand, was happy to buy all-in-one devices, often called "Music Centres" from the likes of Panasonic and Phillips. Those with no money and even less taste bought incredibly nasty "all-in-one hi-fis" from (cough! spit! PTANNGG!) Amstrad.

In this strained metaphor, "Fragmented" = "Hi-Fi Separates". "Integrated" = "Music Centre"

My point is that there will always be the geek that wants to have absolute, complete and total control over their user experience, *regardless* of the the market. You see the same thing in many other fields.

Unfortunately for these geeks, they're *not* in the majority. You're not even a particularly big minority!

Most people really, seriously, honestly, DO NOT CARE about "open source" or "open systems". It's utterly fucking irrelevant to 90% of the market. Demanding that an entire industry places such a tiny (albeit very vocal) minority at the top of their list of priorities is fun to watch, but it ain't gonna happen. Deal with it already, and stop stamping your feet in anger like a bunch of children. It was already old 30 years ago, when the exact same arguments were being had over complete and "kit" computers.

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A breath of fresh air from an open wind... oh wait

Blessed are the cheesemakers.

Your ultimate paragraph says it all mate. Not one person in a hundred outside Geekdom gives a flying fuck about ''open source', 'open standards' or probably 'open-crotch panties'. They really really really want something that just does what they purchased it for.

To make calls.

Go down to any Tesco, Somerfields or other major hub of human interaction and watch the masses in their daily toil. They would use a can and a piece of string as long as it works.

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Go

Open Systems

"Most people really, seriously, honestly, DO NOT CARE about "open source" or "open systems"."

It's not so much that people care about open systems, it's what open systems do for them. Find 2 comparable products released at a similar time with similar features, and in every case I can think of, the more open one became the biggest. Open solutions end up with competitors fighting to lower the cost and improve the features in a way that closed systems don't or can't.

Compare sd cards with Memory Stick, Windows with Mac (more open in terms of hardware it could run on), TCP/IP with every other networking standard, Wordpress with every other blogging platform. The open one won.

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Flame

One of these days...

I'll understand why people get so upset about these things. If you have Android and love it, fine, get on with your iife. If you don't like Apple, fine, don't buy their stuff, get on with your life.

Then again, feel free to continue coming on to sites like this venting and ranting about open this, jobs that, blah blah blah. In the meantime Apple will continue to churn out devices and software that the MAJORITY of the world wants and likes and who couldn't give a flying frack what all you geeks think about Jobs, iOS, fragmentation or anything else. They buy a device, use it, like it and enjoy it. You however spend your time pointlessly ranting.. and yet you call them the sad ones??

I take that all back.. I'll never understand it.

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FAIL

open as in golf tournament ??

open as in golf tournament,? don't make me laugh !

it took many year before they alow female into the tournament

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Stop

Tweetdeck say Jobs is wrong

http://phandroid.com/2010/10/19/tweetdeck-to-jobs-with-only-two-android-developers-development-wasnt-a-nightmare-at-all/

Erm - in your face Steve!

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Pint

Now for some sanity!

Love Apple kit own plenty of it, but Steve Jobs really is a complete prat of the highest order!

Chewing food on the phone, yeah OK you're billionaire but you don't have to act like some toss-pot futures trader. It's not big and not clever, OK?

Open Source/Open Systems, nice! Lovely way to try to get the geek crowd on board eh? Use the word "OPEN" and the geeks sit up and pay attention!

Listen Steve "Dipstick" Jobs, Joe Public doesn't give two monkey's wotnots what is running on his phone OK?

Joe ( or Josephine ) Public see's his/her mate has a phone. It's shiny and it has FaceSlap/Twatter/Browser/Games on it. Whatever JP see's first will almost certainly be the one JP goes down to Phones4Twats or WhoreHousePhones and asks for. JP wants shiny, simples. Whichever shiny JP sees first will almost certainly be the one JP buys. It's only sad geeks who have no life that feel the need to spend 6 weeks weighing up the pros and cons between iOS. Android and Symbian, face it there's bugger all else worth bothering with. It's a phone, you phone, you text, you play the

occasional game, it's not a lifestyle choice, it's a flipping phone!

Now if you'll excuse me....Landlord, same again please!

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Heart

The narcissism of minor differences

Thanks stackoverflow for the Freud:

"It is clearly not easy for man to give up the satisfaction of this inclination to aggression. They do not feel comfortable without it. The advantage which a comparatively small cultural group offers of allowing this instinct an outlet in the form of hostility against intruders is not to be despised. It is always possible to bind together a considerable number of people in love, so long as there are other people left over to receive the manifestations of their aggressiveness. I once discussed the phenomenon that is precisely communities with adjoining territories, and related to each other in other ways as well, who are engaged in constant feuds and in ridiculing each other — like the Spaniards and Portuguese, for instance, the North Germans and South Germans, the English and Scotch, and so on. I gave this phenomenon the name of “the narcissism of minor differences”, a name which does not do much to explain it. We can now see that it is a convenient and relatively harmless satisfaction of the inclination to aggression, by means of which cohesion between the members of the community is made easier."

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