Steve Jobs' App Store for Apple's famous iOS devices - the iPhone, iPad et al - is no stranger to controversy lately. The company has been happy to take a firm and positive stance on various issues, weeding from its lucrative walled garden any dissenting program. Now, Apple has taken a stance which will upset a lot of Americans …
Cake isn't a theory ... the cake is a lie!
Process vs. Origin?
As far as I know, Evolution is about a (factual) PROCESS that starts with ... err 'something'. 'Creation' is about ORIGIN ... that 'somthing'. I should not have to point this out as the words EVOLUTION and CREATION pretty much speak for themselves! (In case this is too challenging, an example: When speaking about how an IT system has evolved to be what it is today, nobody would think that you were talking about the reasons and whyit was put in originally)
The bible was never written as a scientific manual (imagine Moses writing Genesis and trying to explain the Big bang?) ... it is about God as the ultimate creator and our relationship as humans to him and it emphasises that at *some time* in a PROCESS, God intervened and made us different to other animals be giving us a conscience.
Christians who choose to read the bible as a scientific explanation (i.e. 7 days, no dinosaurs mentioned etc.) miss the point. 'Evolutionists' who choose to take issue with this clearly do too!
It is a shame
A lot of people won't get that comment, they simply don't know what you mean.
I thought Palin was nuts, I feel sorry for S Delaware, but this is the country where scientology is allowed to flourish.
Chlorine + Gene pool etc etc.
Well said, Sir.
That is possibly the best post about this subject yet. You win ten internets.
Most creationists would tell you "you might be descended from monkeys but I'm not".
But not as a joke.
And the creationists would be right
In the strict, pedantic sense. We are not descended from monkeys.
We are descended from some kind of proto-ape from when we go us, and the other ape's 'n monkeys.
Apes descended from monkeys
But if you went back, would this proto-ape be a monkey? Err, yes. It wouldn't be a species that's around today, but it would be an earlier form of monkey. A form of monkey whose descendants turned into the branch of life known as apes.
creationist young earth/ old earth
I really do wonder about the trolling here, in that people can't seam to differentiate between creationist, and the whole young earth old earth debate amongst Christians, there is also some debate in the difference around evolution of a species and evolution within a species. There is a lot of evidence that implies evolution of a species but not proves, and there is proof of evolution within a species. At some point I would like to see the level of thought of some commentators rise above the mentality of the young earth crowd. <sigh>
You are either joking, or my sarcasm detector is faulty. Overlooking observed speciation, evolution within a species = variation. Variation over time + selection = speciation = the origin of species.
(WTF, because, really, I have no idea what you're trying to say).
Speciation not proven? Pah!
St Jobs has also given access to a great series of videos called "Facts of Evolution" that can be found on "iTunes U" or from the link below.
The video presents a wide range of scientific evidence that cannot be accounted for by any other mechanism than evolution.
Not that I'm attempting to state a personal viewpoint, but the sentence "The video presents a wide range of scientific evidence that cannot be accounted for by any other mechanism than evolution." is obviously incorrect. Certainly Divine fiat is a mechanism that can explain any and all evidence. It simply explains it in a way that is not satisfying/testable from the point of view of humanity using the scientific method.
Nobody can disprove
that the earth was created 5 milliseconds ago, complete with all our memories of the past, just the right mix of radio-isotopes, fossils etc to fool us. The Great Green Argleseizure just happened to sneeze that way, or the <insert creator of choice> has a really strange sense of humor.
It is just not a very useful theory (it is positively begging for a rigorous trim by Occam's razor). There are alway alternative explanations, but it is best to adhere to the simplest theory that explains all (in part for aesthetic reasons).
Having said that, there is very much evidence in favour of the evolution of new species.
God - The ultimate practical joker
"Certainly Divine fiat is a mechanism that can explain any and all evidence."
No it isn't. I tried this "maybe God did it" argument in court but I was still convicted.
I have a masochistic bent of arguing with creationists
and there are a variety of different creationist arguments, the most popular being (in no particular order):
1) young earthers
2) the earth is old but God created it in stages, just long stages, that match Genesis (specifically JWs). This also necessitates that macroevolution does not occur, but many rationalise that evolution occurs within the bounds of 'kinds' (it's woolly at best)
3) the earth is old and everything evolved except humans, which god placed on earth perfectly formed
All of them are very poor arguments in light of the evidence, but they just can't see that.
They don't believe in themselves, so...
I don't believe in creationists.
Oh they are real alright
Mrs AC used to work in a natural history museum in a regional British city, on the occasional Saturday the Creationalists would turn up (obviously not on Sunday).
En mass they would shout a lot and try and tell the museum's visitors that it was all lies, especially the dinosaurs; eventually security arrived in large enough numbers to throw them out.
Did they remove the playboy and co apps then? I thought they just removed all the freelance and non-American apps that showed flesh?
Someone had to say it..
"...Steve Jobs is happy - assert that he considers himself, like the rest of us, to be descended from monkeys..."
I assume the phrase "the rest of us" excludes a Mr Ballmer who, based on the evidence of a certain viral video, has yet to descend...
Steve Jobs descended from monkeys?
What evidence does The Reg have that Jobs is like the rest of us? Surely His Jobsness is at a higher level of evolution than mere simians, but he knows what they want and how to make his monkey customers happy with iPhones and monkey apps.
ID, where is the inteligence?
The ID debate always reminds me of the old joke,
How can you tell God was an architect?
Who else would put the waste disposal unit in the middle of the play ground.
If we evolved from monkeys, why haven't the monkeys kept evolving?
"If we evolved from monkeys,"
We didn't. We and monkeys share a common ancestor (as do, um..., alligators and yeast, slugs and pineapple, ...).
"why haven't the monkeys kept evolving?"
They have. So have we.
There's an app for that!
And there's a picture and description of it in the article! Fancy that, it's almost like it's explained in explicit detail, positioned so that you had to scroll past it to get here to troll.
the "monkeys" we evolved from are not the monkeys you see in the zoo today. Common mis-understanding going all the way back to deliberate mis-quotation of darwin by creationists: he never claimed we evolved from monkeys, but that we and other apes evolved from a common ancestor. But claiming the "from monkeys" line is better propaganda, as any political manipulator could tell you.
Well they have!
We didn't evolve from present-day monkeys. We evolved from the same "monkey-like" creatures that they have evolved from.
And both groups of species have in turn evolved from small mammals, and before that reptiles, and before that fish, and finally from worms and little blobs like human eggs and sperm..
You can follow the course of evolution from the development of all animals in the womb. TO start with most animals on earth look pretty much the same in the womb. Like fish embryos with gills!
But.... Evolution is not global...
And there are some monkeyhumes that have not evolved....
And they are the ones believing in creationism... Although I understand the proper spelling is "Cretinism".
This reminds me of a scientific correctness survey
in Annals of Improbable Research
Q: Did man evolve from an ape-like ancestor:
c) Not in Kansas
The situation in the US is pitiful
I can understand a movement which wants less government spending and / or taxation if its backed up by some rational arguments. But the Tea Party is anything but rational. A better name would be the Hate party since its members appear to run the spectrum from racists, xenophobes, homophobes, misogynists, zealots to common-or-garden bigots.
What is particularly alarming is the success they are enjoying at least in the Republican party. Scandals seem to be running about 1 per week at the moment and it's like their supporters don't even care. The latest features no less than Christine O'Donnell who espouses the usual religious phooey even though she was just shown on TV confessing to dabbling with witchcraft. Pure hypocrisy.
Well said sir!
Most these cretins seem to on latch on to religion as an excuse to cover up their pecadillos. The extreme being the RC priests unable to keep their hands to themselves.
Then there are the Sunday-is-Sacrad-God-Squad who say we should all be in church praising the Lord's name on Sunday and no one should work. Well I tell you what, how about you get all the firemen, police, hospital staff, power-station, santiation and travel workers to spend all day Sunday off work and down the local church. Let's see how long that lasts before we start stringing you up, you bunch of pillocks!
I have no problem with religion, if it helps you get through the day, fair play but it's hypocrisy and the exclusionism I can't stand. 'Don't do that! Don't do that, especially not that! Of course I will be doing it, but do as I say not as I do!'
Balls to the lot of 'em!
Mines the one with a copy of my own bible, The God Delusion in the pocket.
Keep Sunday Sacred
I used to go to church where a guy used to beat the Keep Sunday Sacred drum. Only problem was he was only at church every other Sunday as he had to work shifts. I seriously don't think that he saw any hypocrisy or irony in this!
God and evolution....
I believe in God AND evolution, so does the Pope actually!
How will all the angsty teenagers have straw man arguments now?
you're joking right ?
I mean, have you actually read what he said ? Do you understand evolution ?
"In the book, Benedict defended what is known as 'theistic evolution', the view held by Roman Catholic, Orthodox and mainline Protestant churches, that God created life through evolution and religion and science need not clash over this."
Thereby quite neatly summarising his complete inability to understand evolution* and the selfish gene. sigh.
*im tempted not to have to explain that - but for the hard of thinking: evolution does not 'result in man' anymore than it results in an ameoba. Perhaps god was happy to wait and see and would have written the bible for ameobas if evolution had played out that way ? personally I think the pope needs to give up trying to make a cat bark.
Science needs to hammer home the evidence ...
If Apple get this kind of reaction to Timetree then they should make programs like Timetree factory installed on all American iProducts to finally help drive the evolution message home in America.
The amazing way scientific progress is moving forward, the creationists are going to have their worst century ever in trying to hold back the ever increasing weight of scientific evidence that shows creationists are wrong.
It is however becoming very clear though that the creationists are lining up to fight back against science. They will ultimately fail, but they are becoming a threat of holding progress back like all the creationist propaganda they are trying to put into schools.
So science needs to hammer home the evidence at every opportunity. Science needs to step up the war on Creationism because the Creationists are stepping up their war on science.
Could it be the personality of Job's kidneys OEM are taking over?
Job's has always been a miserable bastard but his bitchiness seems to have reached new highs.
Could his donor's personality, memories or consciousness remain within the tissue of the new set of kidneys and have been passed on to the MOS (Miserable Old Sod)? See: < http://scienceray.com/philosophy-of-science/a-medical-mystery-transferred-organ-donor-consciousness/ >.
Further links: <http://www.google.ca/search?client=opera&rls=en&q=personality+of+organ+donor+transferred&sourceid=opera&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8 >.
Blah Blah Consciousness is an EM field Blah Blah
Ooh, so if I wave this magnet next to your head, you might stop being silly?
...cos it wasn't his kidneys that he had replaced.
It was his liver. Something that ten seconds of Googling would have revealed.
I don't understand the problem. We should most certainly teach both in school; Evolution should be covered in Science class, whilst Creationism could be covered in any Literature class that discusses fiction and/or creative writing.
What ever your views on Christianity the Kings James bible is widely regarded as being a significant piece of English literature.
Posted on christianforums.com
"I'm not going to participate in the debate. I'm just observing for now. Sadly I lack the understanding of biology required to have a rational, well-thought out opinion on evolution."
"Don't let any lack of knowledge on any given topic stop you though.
I wear my ignorance like a badge!
It's our faith they need to see --- not our knowledge."
I think it speaks for itself.
letters but no digits
"It's our faith they need to see --- not our knowledge."
I think it speaks for itself."
Indeed it speaks volumes
Yep, journalists are descended from monkeys.
Lazy journalism... again. Humans and monkeys (broad term for primates) share a common ancestor, which is not the same as saying humans are descended from monkeys.
And as for all those idiotic Americans who believe in Intelligent Design and creationism or whatever they call it, well if god's design is so intelligent, why do you circumcise boys? Why do your girls and women shave their legs and fannies (that's the English fanny, not the American one, although, a lot of women will have that dealt with, too). Why do you shave off your beards (men and women)....
Strikes me that you don't like the way your god had designed the human race...
Arsewits, the lot of you. Greatest nation on earth... I think not. Greatest nation of hypocrites... almost certainly.
Pots and Kettles?
Hypocrites, perhaps. We kind of felt that way about the crown in 1776, too. The whole citizen/representation thing. I guess every nation has to go through that whole process to become has-beens. Our country (the U.S.) is unfortunately sliding down toward the abyss in which our Pond counterparts now find themselves.
Ladies and Gentlemen, Mr Paul Vail, King of the On-Topic Rebuttal.
What the funk does citizenship/representation have to do with the other guy's argument?
What is this "abyss" that the UK now finds itself in?
Vis-a-vis the citizenship thing, when the UK ruled the US they never made any secret of the fact that they were just another one of the colonies and were treated just as badly as any other. They never pretended that the US was of equal stature to the then-mighty UK.
poor old 'merica
Watching them increasingly tear themselves apart over religion and terrorism would be entertaining if it wasn't so scary. Would be interesting to see what percentage of US citizens subscribe to the >10000 year old Earth 'theory'. However given the dire state of scientific education in the UK it won't be long before we're in the same mess, give it 100 years and we'll be burning people for witchcraft again.
What is faith, anyway...
Faith in God is by definition a belief without a proof. Was there a clear, ubeatable proof that God exists it would not be a faith any more, just an acknowledgement of the proof. From the point of view of faith seeking a proof is like not believing.
Drawing directly from the Bible (e.g. Paul's letters), faith is a gift from God to the ones He has chosen. Expecting others to 'start to believe', not to mention forcing them to, is pointless at best, and rude - for sure.
A true Christian should not even try to take sides in the public 'fights for schools' between the so called creationists and the secular society. What a waste of time to be a part of a political agenda of some unscrupulous people posing as 'saviours of traditional values'. History has seen a lot of that before...
This is not biased
This would be big deal if Apple were blocking creationist apps but they are not.
As a Christian I have several bible applications on my iPhone. As a Christian I also believe Apple have done the right thing by allowing this app. All people are entitled to their beliefs and we should always seek to have healthy debates on these topics.
I also recommend iphone bible apps. As an antitheist.
reading and searching for stuff in the bible is a hilarious way to pass the time.
Did you know that it is a sin to eat an owl for example ? Or that women raped in cities who do not cry out should be stoned ? (the inference being that they were clearly asking for it...)
hours of hilarious top tips in there.
it's better than Viz.
Bill Hicks quote
"Ever noticed how the people who don't believe in evolution look really unevolved"
Seriously though, what's all this about no pron on the iPad?? I don't have one so someone please set this straight for me. You can still go to your choice websites to have a wank right? Just no pron apps. If so, I don't see a problem and think that apple have made a very good, wipe clean, device.
Creationists don't deserve iPhones
What these idiots don't grasp, is that that vast majority of our modern technology has come from knowledge gained through the scientific method. That collective knowledge spans a vast range of fields from chemistry, biology, geology, mathematics, physics and archaeology, through to the application of that knowledge in engineering and other applied sciences.
It's all self-supporting and largely (highly?) consistent, but more importantly, _highly_interrelated_ - so you can't just reject a small piece like evolution without bringing into question everything else. I'm not suggesting we shouldn't be open to questioning it, just the opposite - healthy skepticism is good. But we also need to accept evidence when its overwhelmingly suggesting something, even if it doesn't match the fairlytales we grew up with.
To ID'ers and creationists: That knowledge, that technology, your iPhone, is all evidence of the success of science. If you don't believe it, hand over your iPhone, trade in your television and the other fruits of scientific endeavour, and phuck off back to living in a hut.