It's called the Constitution...
...and it trumps state law since this is a freedom of speech issue and would not cause undo harm in it's performance/display.
Koran-burning 'pastor' loses website
Red-nosed pastor Terry Jones, who plans to burn copies of the Koran and Jewish text the Talmud at the weekend, has either had his website hacked or his ISP has pulled the plug. The site, at http://www.doveworld.org/ is unavailable this morning. The pastor of a tiny fundamentalist church in Florida, which has reportedly lost …
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Thursday 9th September 2010 09:38 GMT Liam Johnson
Plan
I hear correct way to burn the devils own literature is to cover it liberally with petrol.
Then you need to get all your god fearing worshippers right in close, to stop the evil spirits escaping.
Everyone needs to start praying very hard.
Then the pastor sets light to it all.
If they are holy enough, then they will be protected from the ensuing cloud of evil plasma as it escapes upwards to be absorbed by heaven.
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Thursday 9th September 2010 09:38 GMT Anonymous Coward
I'm in trouble....
If the weekend is nice I plan to burn a few sausages.... The pigs will be revoulting...
Seriously, these people are such a danger to global society but years ago they were widespread and classed as prophets... Most of the largest and bloodiest wars are down to religion... I weep for the past(ors), present and future...
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Thursday 9th September 2010 10:24 GMT Michael H.F. Wilkinson
It's the old freedom vs license issue
Freedom is fine, and we are not stopping him. We can call him an idiot, and he SHOULD be held (directly or indirectly) responsible for ANY damage or deaths caused by this action, especially because he has been warned about the consequences. Freedom is empty without responsibility.
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Thursday 9th September 2010 12:13 GMT Eric Crippen
so...
If a wife leaves her husband because she has the right to divorce and he kills her after warning her, then it's her fault???
It's a book. He's not the state, ergo the whole nazi-blow-a-load imagery doesn't apply. He's a babbling citizen exercising his right to be stupid. That doesn't mean he's responsible for someone going out and killing people because he burned a BOOK. Was the Dutch cartoonist responsible for the killings after the his toon was published or was it the editor, or maybe the shareholders who own the company, or how about the paperboy who delivered the paper?
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Thursday 9th September 2010 12:42 GMT Michael H.F. Wilkinson
There is a difference
between being threatened directly by the man you wish to divorce (e.g., because he is a violent bastard), and being warned that your action could lead to innocent deaths, and which could be prevented from expressing yourself differently. If I want to express my anger, disrespect, etc, and I am told that a particular way of expressing it: (a) offends many I do not mean to offend, and (b) could lead to a violent backlash, should I then not consider expressing myself better?
Again, I am not denying this man his right to free speech, but the right to free speech does not deny my option to sue someone for libel, or defamation, etc. Inciting hatred is another reason you might be sued. If you call for all members of any ethnic, political or religious group to be rounded up and hanged, and send out this message repeatedly, should you go unpunished if some idiots take precisely this action?
There are no easy answers, and different rights need to be balanced.
Rather than calling for a ban on the burning of books, I would suggest he behave in a more civilized way.
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Friday 10th September 2010 09:41 GMT Paul RND*1000
Free speech is great...
...but the speaker must remember that it carries a heavy burden of personal responsibility. Words are powerful. Words have consequences. Words can start wars. Words can destroy churches, end pastoral careers and get innocent people you've never even met killed just because they happen to have a certain nationality or religious belief.
The right to free speech is NOT a license to be deliberately inflammatory or hateful and expect there to be no consequences to yourself or others just because it's "protected speech". There are way too many people in positions of influence who have forgotten that, or aren't willing to accept responsibility for the consequences of their words.
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Thursday 9th September 2010 09:39 GMT Steve 48
Pot calling kettle...
One of the justifications this nut job gave was about the link between Islam and terrorism - how about he reads the history books about things such as the crusades, witches, the inquistion and the sectarian violence in Ireland - violent episodes *justified* by radicalised christian views. Perhaps this guy should extend his event to include bible burning too, no scrub that - let's have a tw*t burning instead!
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Thursday 9th September 2010 09:46 GMT Greg J Preece
Gotta love the name
"The Dove World Outreach Center also sells "Islam is the Devil" T-shirts and runs an eBay business."
The name of his "church" has been amusing me since this story broke. Way to reach out to the world, dickhead.
"Their fundamentalist religion is evil! They want to call people heathens, and burn their symbols, and potentially kill them! All we want to do is..er...um..."
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Thursday 9th September 2010 09:46 GMT Cameron Colley
Why shouldn't he?
I am not suggesting that all Muslims are fundamentalists, nor all fundamentalists terrorists -- but his point that without the Koran the attacks would not have taken place is true.
While he's at it he should burn the Bible (well, those books the Catholic church have allowed him to have in a book) as well for all the suffering that has given the world.
Perhaps those in any sort of organised religion should look to their own faith and wonder how it may be divisive and why such abuse can be carried out in its name.
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Thursday 9th September 2010 11:56 GMT Anonymous Coward
but his point that without the Koran the attacks would not have taken place is true.
What a dumb ass comment.
If it wasn't the Koran that was used as a justification it would be something else.
Catholics and Protestants have been killing each other in Ireland for years and they both read the same book.
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Thursday 9th September 2010 12:42 GMT Cameron Colley
I disagree.
The people in Ireland are a great example that proves what I just said. Without the ability to call someone "Catholic" or "Protestant" or, even, without the fact that the two religions are, from the outset of protestantism, at war it would have been a bit tricky to polarise people in Ireland and maybe, just maybe, whoever was the most sensible may have become the majority without the need for murder and from-birth indoctrination of children to their cause.
If it weren't for people taking these fairy stories far too seriously to the point of using one as an excuse for murder or just using them as excuses to get people to vote for them we wouldn't be in this mess.
Yes, humans are violent and will war without these books -- but doctrines like these make great mechanisms to control large numbers of people who would otherwise call you a twat and ignore you.
The reason some of these cults started in the first place seems, from their history, to be to band people together to kill another group of people, in fact.
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Thursday 9th September 2010 17:53 GMT sT0rNG b4R3 duRiD
Excuse me...
It's the Sassanach b4st4rds that came across and invaded us.
They just happened to be protestant. No doubt if no religion existed we'd still have wanted in them old days to kick them out and would no doubt have found some other differentiating issue.
While it is good to remember what they actually did to us as a lesson, I would say, forgive and move on, eh? :) I find the Brits are generally infinitely more pleasant to deal with than Yanks, to tell you the truth!
But my point stands. People will find differences to make trouble, all the time, Religion or otherwise.
And when they don't want to, they can find reasons to be friends.
I don't think we're doing all that bad with relations with the UK and sure, aren't the US and Japan much friendlier now than they were nigh 70 years ago?
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Thursday 9th September 2010 13:23 GMT DrXym
Every religious book is the same
Fundamentalist idiots are fundamentalist idiots. It doesn't matter what magic sky pixie demented worldview they've bought into, they're as stupid as each other.
I propose flying every fundamentalist and dumping them all on a small island. There they can brutally kill each other in their insane never ending holy war and leave everyone else alone. Whichever faith comes out victorious shall receive a small Tesco Value plastic trophy for their troubles.
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Thursday 9th September 2010 09:49 GMT irish donkey
freedom of speech
The problem with freedom of speech is everybody has to have it.
If the media hadn't picked it up nobody would care that he was having a B-B-Q in his garden.
I think most sane IT individuals will agree that it's not the book but more how the book has been used by head banging preachers that are the problem. Much like how the Rev Jones is using the Bible to justify being a complete C*unt.
icon ... obvious
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Thursday 9th September 2010 09:49 GMT The Gopher
What can I Say
Hmm there is always one somewhere that wants to upset the apple cart, the small minority that ends up getting the rest of us tarnished with the same brush. I do hope it was some white hat that took his site off line, I'm sorry but as independent bible believing baptist myself, this saddens me terribly. I'm just thinking maybe someone, a Christian would be nice should go deal with this Inbred idiot who's doing to Christianity what the Taliban and "old hook-hand" did to Islam, and then let God judge him..
@ Jake that ain't strictly true now it's just what happens when the garden don't get weeded right and the hateful get left to grow and then preach their own TWISTED version of the truth.
@NH - yeah when Sarah Palin thinks your a nut job, it's time to call the men in the white coats to come take you back to the nut house. I wonder if the nut house there is missing a few nuts.
@AC - Yup totally true, the bible comes from the original Hebrew through Greek to English with nothing left out and anything added clearly marked, at least in my bible it is.
@S.Pam - I feel for ya, I can see why you've probably stayed away from church, there are other churches out there, as God (if ya believe in him or not) has a purpose for all.
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Thursday 9th September 2010 10:24 GMT moonface
Why the fuss!!
It's a crazy place when world leaders incl. Tony Blair condem someone for burning a pile of old books but are not so concerned when their actions lead directly to burning people. i.e. mainly muslims in Iraq.
My only suggestion to the pastor, would be to, add the Torah,Nevi'im and Ketuvim, to the pile of Korans and Talmuds.
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Thursday 9th September 2010 10:24 GMT Just Thinking
Freedom of expression
The guy is expressing his disrespect for something which he doesn't respect. He is allowed to do that.
He is burning some books which he owns. He is allowed to do that.
His motivation may be to insult and offend half the world's population, and get himself a load of publicity in the process. So he is a deeply unpleasant jerk with views that most of us completely disagree with. He is still allowed to express those views.
Are ordinary muslims offended by this? Only those that want to be, I suspect.
Some nutter in Afganistan might use this as an excuse to kill a soldier? Blame the nutter. He would have found a different excuse.
If we carry on suppressing freedom of expression to avoid upsetting terrorists, we may as well give up.
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Thursday 9th September 2010 10:33 GMT Michael H.F. Wilkinson
Not quite so simple
If you know certain actions (while legal) may lead to the deaths of others (through no direct action of yours), you are still in part responsible. We are not claiming he should be silenced, he can vent his distasteful ideas in different, less insensitive ways, but if he chooses not to, he is in part responsible for the consequences.
All that people have been saying that they feel the action is unwise, distasteful, etc, and have been warning him of possible dangers, whilst at the same time indicating that he has the right to be the complete jerk he appears to be (he may of course be an incomplete jerk).
The right to say what you want goes hand in hand with the right to be called into question, and the duty to face the consequences
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Thursday 9th September 2010 12:48 GMT mike2R
Re: Freedom of expression
No one is suppressing his freedom. People are saying he is a deeply ignorant, egotistical, self-serving, pathetic excuse for a man, and the world would have been a better place if he had been strangled at birth. But no-one is denying that under the US constitution he does actually have the right to do this.
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Thursday 9th September 2010 13:44 GMT DrXym
@Just Thinking
It boils down to this. If this person publicly does what he claims he will do, people will die. That is the outcome, and the cause rests firmly with his entirely avoidable and completely offensive act.
Possibly it will be US soldiers who die, possibly some poor bastards who get caught up in the frenzied demonstrations that will inevitably follow, possibly some Muslims in the crosshairs of the police, possibly some time later when some radical uses it to justify blowing themselves up.
This "pastor" is a moron. I think he should be allowed to burn the Koran if he wishes. I believe he flown to the main square in Tehran where he will be promptly stoned to death by the angry mob. Then we can get this shit over with until the next loon decides to exercise his free speech in the most offensive way possible.
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Thursday 9th September 2010 23:16 GMT Anonymous Coward
@ DrXym
"It boils down to this. If this person publicly does what he claims he will do, people will die. That is the outcome, and the cause rests firmly with THAT OTHER PERSON WHO WILL USE ANY EXCUSE, INCLUDING THIS ONE, TO DO his entirely avoidable and completely offensive act."
There, fixed that for ya.
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Wednesday 15th September 2010 15:14 GMT Anonymous Coward
@AC 23:16
Why give them the excuse? Sure, they'll probably try killing some soldiers, some civilians anyway - hell, who can predict what a religious nutsack will do?
But this will also give the terrorist cells the fuel to recruit and train new recruits as well, something that he WILL be DIRECTLY responsible for.
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Thursday 9th September 2010 10:33 GMT Chronos
Interesting point
I heard someone political (completely forgettable so I can't remember who) saying that although this is a minor disturbance in the grand scheme of things, this little troll of one particular set of god botherers will never go away due to the persistent nature of the web.
So they've just discovered this little foible of the web? Then WHY in the name of ANY deity do the politicians and big business alike advocate we forget all about privacy when it comes to the Internet? They obviously recognize the drawbacks.
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Wednesday 15th September 2010 14:56 GMT Anonymous Coward
Religion? Tollerance??
Two words that definitely do not go together mate. Hell, I have family who claim to be JW's (claiming to be the most tolerant of all religions) and they're pretty bad at any kind of tolerance.
Want to know who are the most tolerant people that rarely get into stupid arguments? Atheists. Simple really; when you think of the majority of wars in mankind you notice that religion is at the forefront. WW2 was actually encouraged by the pope's inner circle, in fact it is stated that their comment was "God wants them all to die"... yeah, 'not part of this world' indeed.
Funny thing that God/Allah/Mohammed/whoever is supposed to teach tolerance as a basic requirement of faith.
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Thursday 9th September 2010 10:43 GMT Chris Harden
Tesla Cannon
Um, has anyone invented one of these: http://ualr.edu/cjarnold/wp-content/uploads/2008/10/tesla-coil1.jpg that can shoot like one of these: http://wm.blem.org/img/unit/lightningpod.jpg yet?
If we know where he will be doing the burning, we could actually strike him down with lightning. Steep shot off of a building, it could actually look like the work of god.
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Biting the hand that feeds IT
