Re: Sigh
Trouble is, as soon as you do anything like that some people will take it as an invitation to argue about the rejection, and then complain bitterly if that argument isn't accepted. It would take up far too much moderator time.
1. Firstly and perhaps most importantly: Moderation is at our discretion. We publish what we feel is fit for publication. We accept the vast majority of all comments posted, and we try to be broad-minded and consistent - but in the end if we don't want it published on our site, it doesn't go up. Correspondence will rarely be …
Well, okay two:
1: Thanks be to the moderators; I've only ever seen them as impartial and rather useful! I can only guess at the costs this activity must soak out of El Reg and I'm very gald you support it.
2: My comment. Why not put a static link to this article in the 'Post your own message' page? Somewhere where we can't miss it: After the link to creating a new account, maybe.
Again, thanks all mods. and to my fellow posters!
Would you mind awfully waving a copy of No 7 under Lewis' nose? Having been accused by LP of being a shill, astroturfing to be precise, I think he needs to read the rules too. Ta.
NB. I am aware that I did rattle his cage rather firmly on that occasion, perhaps more than was warranted.
And you can't quit the game!
But seriously, those are quite reasonable guidelines that shouldn't be hard to live with. You have a difficult job and from what I can tell, you do it capably and with a good sense of humor (which you have somehow managed to retain).
The beer is for after work.
Just a minor (pedantic) quibble...I wasn't going to post, but seeing it posted in the title, mean't I couldn't resist.
Surely, we "try TO do something" "try AND do something" - it is just WRONG !
I see and hear it everywhere , and it just gets to me. I know , I'll try to be brave...
Seeing it twice in the guidelines was just too much for me.
It is not true that only posts in violation of the policy get deleted.
Some posts are deleted simply because a particular advertiser might object to the comment. Even if it is true.
You think not?
I have had posts deleted AFTER others have responded to it and added their own two cents. Nothing violated the stated policy. Only the policy that if advertisers might complain the post gets zapped.
It has happened a number of times.
Censorship rules.
I have looked at your rejected comments - nine about Microsoft and one about Intel.
We have never pulled or rejected comments for fear of offending advertisers. And no advertiser has ever asked us to pull a comment.
May I refer you to this:
9. If we suspect comments of being libellous we reject them. We err on the side of caution. Remember we are subject to UK libel laws.
Also, to this.
17. Once again - moderation is at our discretion. Having your comment published on this site is not one of your human rights.
At the risk of repeating myself: this is our site and these are our rules.
Crying 'censorship' is ludicrous: everything our journalists write is open to public scrutiny, debate and dispute. And if not on our site - then via blogs and other websites. Everyone can say their piece: no-one goes to jail.
What about the stuff that's between those lines, like having you nether regions boiled in oil etc....
Mmmm, now there's a thought.
And Secondly, 'Comments may take longer to appear at different times of the day or when we are very busy' Does this translate as we are out for a very long liquid lunch?
#3 is pretty difficult to adhere to given the pre-moderated nature of these forums. Just because there aren't any comments doesn't mean that someone hasn't posted the exact same thing as you - it just means that it's stuck in the moderation queue.
I'd like it if post-moderation was introduced on a trial basis. Or has this been tried before, with unsatisfactory results? Or even just showing how large the current moderation queue is.
#8 can be awkward with very short comments, and generally it's only done because we're forced to enter a title. Is there any particular reason for this?
These are guidelines to try and stick to - they're not absolute. We do understand that sometimes there will be multiple posts saying the same thing - it's a pain when it's obvious people haven't read previous comments, but it's totally understandable if there's been a backlog.
As for posting comment in the box rather than the title field, I don't see how it's awkward to do. I think it interrupts the flow of a thread to have 'N/T' popping up everywhere.
Post-moderation - I think I'll let Drew handle that one.
3. We are mulling over different classes of Reg commentards, in preparation for introducing non-story forums. One possibility for story comments would be to experiment with straight to page for Power Users, or whatever we call them.
8. No reason why we have to have a title. That's just the way we started. Anyone else feel strongly about compulsory titles?
Yes! sometimes a single word reply is enough. especially Now we can use reply, we dont need to title a comment with the @Poster
Mind you it can be fun reverting to silly defaults:
This is a title
Type your comment here — plain text only, no HTML
Let me sidestep to a different realm for a moment: I've usually found that finishing a freshly written email with a usable Subject: line does improve the message as a whole. Viewing titles here as much the same, I'm not opposed to them, though their function is slightly different -- titles don't have to introduce the message before I can read it whole, and they can sensibly continue into each other.
Regarding writing titles, especially in the beginning I'd be at a loss for a title but with a suitable arsenal of placeholders this is no longer a problem. Regarding reading titles, seeing how the no-title-complaint message ends up as a title and I find myself reading that in full, wasting my time, not requiring a title and making the line vanish when empty might be a useful experiment, at least.
So, long story short: Sure, go ahead and make titles optional.
No complaints at all about the moderating or the rules set out in this article. I like the way that everyone can comment with a fair amount of latitude and all are equal. So I'm a bit concerned about what "Power users" might mean. There are Gods (moderators) and mere mortals (the rest of us) - do we need to be creating a hierarchy of commentards? Or am I getting the wrong end of the stick?
Story comments will always be the province of Reg moderators only.
We are thinking of rewards:
For example - html links. It is a pain checking those out - and they are not enabled.
But plenty of our commentards have been round long enough for us to trust them. What if we let such readers use basic html in their posts?
Some readers clearly are technically competent AND helpful to fellow readers - what if we identify them as such?
I think most readers here are savvy enough to copy/paste an url back into the browser, and it has the upside of not distracting formatting wise, hiding the destination, and so on and so forth.
Then again I found myself using a <S></S> tag today. If I got to choose I'd pick some basic text style mods like *bold*, /italics/, _underline_, -striketrough-, but I'd be happy to keep them without html-y effect for flavour and not having to see what amanfrommars (proverbial sense) would do with it. So, well. I for me myself am happy without, but that's just my, myself and I.
And then you get intriguing. What would you do with a marked-up commentard?
The title? Oh right, yes, been reading tvtropes. Sorry about that.
I don't know about the need/lack of need for hyperlinks, but the ability to italicise would be grand. Bold might be a little distracting if used improperly. Consider however that the ability to use italics could be added to the system without making comments look horrible yet also without requiring tiered commenters.
That said, I am personally of the belief (though I know it is controversial) that Ars Technica’s subscriptor program is the best going. You get Custom RSS feeds, forum formatting superpowers and most importantly the ability to view the site without ads. (Possible only because you paid a subscription fee.) They still maintain a free tier which is ad-funded, but frankly Ars’ Nobel Intent is completely worth the money. (As would be El Reg.)
Personally, I’d throw in a few more subscriber goodies as well. Periodic roundtable chats with the writers/editors, or maybe access to a Reg IRC channel, subscriptor only forum or what have you. Nothing that would substantially detract from the “free” side of the site, but at the same time give the subscriber-base of commenters something of a greater sense of community.
I know the whole idea of subs is hugely against a lot of people’s approach to things, but many other sites have seen the need. It also might be a moral “out” for those folks who love to read El Reg, but insist on using adblockers. (Debate done to death here http://arstechnica.com/civis/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=317 with no real resolution.)
Either way, there’s lots of approaches to enhancing and expanding forums. Why not get the Freeform Dynamics guys to put some research time into it? They are great at surveys, and most especially at analysing them. Could be what they learn from El Reg’s commenter base is of economic value enough to them as others amongst their customers might care for their own Web 2.0ification. Maybe even of enough value to get a freebie?
Just thoughts; and I would be deeply interested to see the thoughts of all the other regulars on this topic.
A title is useful as a reference when replying to a previous comment especially in a thread of mainly ACs. If it's beyond the powers of some to think of a title whether relevant or not then maybe they shouldn't be posting.
PS. The moderators do a good job, can I have a bun please?
in thats its mostly made up of people you wouldn't talk to in real life (in both meanings of that sentence).
Sarah, some constructive criticism - there occasionally is a "stealth-troll" competition to see who can get a rise out of you as a moderator (I will own up to succeding once myself). Perhaps deny these posts the oxygen of a reply?
As far as I'm concerned The Reg is the only tech news site that has a comments section worth the name. Thank you and long may it continue.
At least with the "new" system we can amend and resubmit any rejected comments, rather than have our carefully-crafted flames/half-baked insults disappear into the void like they used to.
Oh, and a request. Can we have some sort of system whereby commentards who upvote their own posts are highlighted so the rest of us can all point and laugh?