back to article Speed cameras slide out of LibCon budget

Jeremy Clarkson can start pressing his itchy accelerator pedal back to the metal - the new LibCon Government isn't going to fund more speed cameras. It's acknowledging the suspicion that the devices are being used as revenue generators, and is encouraging local councils to “use other methods and effective safety measures” to …

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    1. Intractable Potsherd
      Stop

      It isn't democratic ...

      ... when they haven't been asked to vote for it! If there are so many people exceeding speed limits, perhaps they have a democratic right to be heard. In the USA there are many places that are voting against speed and traffic-light cameras (see www.TheNewspaper.com for more details). We don't get that option - some control freak decides it is going to happen, and it does. If each one had to be justified to the electorate in terms of the history of accidents in that place, and how it would actually affect the risk of those accidents happening again, and how they would catch all vehicles, including motorbikes (which don't have front number-plates so forward-facing cameras don't work), then perhaps we would get somewhere.

    2. Steve X
      Unhappy

      tradeoffs

      The problem as I see it is that it is impossible to define a numerical speed limit that is valid for several km of road, under all circumstances. For a given stretch of road it may sometimes be safe at 30mph, sometimes at 40, sometimes at 20. It depends on weather, condition of vehicle, time of day, etc.

      Since the fundamental objective is safety, that leaves two choices. Either an adaptive system that can judge the conditions and other variables, or a mechanical system that must target the lowest value to ensure safety in all circumstances.

      Cameras fall into the second group, and in the above example would have to be set at 20. That not only causes frustration, with the potential for 'road rage' and accidents, but wastes potential road capacity. It also means that drivers, especially good drivers who are experienced at adapting to conditions, have to drive with the attention fixed on their speedo, to ensure that their driving instincts don't let them stray to, say, 22mph (only 10%). That, in itself, is dangerous, since their attention is not fully on the road and other vehicles.

      Prior to the use of cameras, speed limits were enforced in general by police, who (if trained) are capable of making judgements. The speed limit could be set at, say, 30. Police could judge if someone driving at 35 in very good confitions, or on a stretch of road that was better than the average, just merited a warning, or if someone driving at 25 in bad conditions or on a stretch of road that was clearly poor, still merited prosecution for driving without due care, etc.

      Overall, that solution improves traffic flow, reduces stress and likely consequences, and leaves the mechanical solutions for places where it is clearly appropriate, i.e. 'binary' infringements like drivers running red lights, or ignoring level crossing barriers.

      Of course any solution involving people costs money,, and politicans have never been very good at choosing between money and safety where common sense is required.

      1. ravenviz Silver badge
        Stop

        Re: tradeoffs

        "have to drive with the attention fixed on their speedo"

        A good driver knows how fast they're going without looking at the speedo. Drivers who need to look at the speedo all the time need to slow down.

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      We Wish!!

      I worked in local government for many years, and I can tell you that if I thought the income from speed cameras might lower council taxes, I'd speed on principle!

      NOTHING lowers council tax except constant public pressure - and that succeeds rarely. Extra funds, whether generated by speed cameras or firing a few school auxiliaries, just go on better offices, bigger expenses and jobs for the boys.

    4. Anonymous Coward
      Flame

      Where?

      "If you don't like it then you can choose to drive within the limits you agreed to when you received your driving licence. It's the democratic way."

      Tell me, where do we get to vote about speed limits?

      _That_ would be the democratic way.

  1. Anonymous Coward
    Headmaster

    I wasn't disappointed

    ... the comments on this article were just as I expected.

    1. Circadian
      Grenade

      @Anonymous Coward

      Surprised in a good way or a bad way? Using the "pedant" icon in this case is pretty clueless because pedantically you do not indicate quite what you thought. Without prior identification of your guess, you could make this claim about any forum at any time - even if the comments veered off into talking about Douglas Adams and cricket quotations.

      Reminds me of that old Abbot and Costello sketch (no, I can't remember how to spell their names, and can't be bothered to check) where they argue about who should do an unpleasant task. Abbot: "What number am I thinking of?". Costello: "Seven". Abbot (patting Costello's cheek) "You were sooo close." (This was a running gag in the film.)

  2. Anonymous Coward
    Thumb Down

    Speed

    The problem is that cameras only catch people speeding, regardless of whether they're driving dangerously or recklessly.

    The reality is that today, you can drink drive, weave about all over the motorway, cut people up, chat on the phone and text to your leasure, aslong as you're not speeding the chances of being caught are virtually zero... and everyone knows it.

    The only real and effective way to police the roads is with traffic officers, but they're so few and far between nowadays I can't recall the last time I saw one!

    1. Chemist

      Re : Speed

      Agree entirely.

      Yesterday driving on fast A-road at the speed limit+ I had another car a few feet behind and so far out in the road that they were often over the white line. This went on for a few miles even though the opportunity to overtake was there.

      Today on a WIDE road I was overtaking a parked car whilst still within the white line and a POLICE-CAR came round a bend ahead over the white line with a car's width of empty space next to the kerb.

      Speeding might contribute to injury and to some extent the original accident but there are far more dangerous driving practices that cause accidents in the first place that cameras will never spot.

      1. AndrueC Silver badge
        IT Angle

        Twats on the road

        Yesterday as I turned off the A43 (dual carriageway) onto the B4100 (single carriageway) I nearly had a head on collision with some pillock. Apparently he thought it appropriate to overtake the traffic waiting at the entrance to the roundabout.

        Luckily for both of us I was travelling at a sensible speed and was able to move over into the gutter but it just proves what total twats we share the road with.

        If he'd been unlucky he could have met one of the other twats who come piling off at that exit barely hanging on.

  3. Anonymous Coward
    Happy

    Angle Grinder

    I have seen many cut down or destroyed entirely by angry motorists, if the government are not giving them out for free now, the local councils will not/should not be able to afford to replace them. The more that come down the less that will go back up!.

  4. Steven Jones

    Road safety trends

    Whatever people's personal feeling about speed cameras, then there has been a very considerable drop in road fatalities.

    The "safe speed" site tried to make a case that speed cameras (and other road policies) were costing about 1,000 lives per year based on a highly selective set of stats comparing an annual trend from 1950 to 1993 with a two year trend from 1999 to 2001.

    http://www.safespeed.org.uk/fatality.html

    However, they have now given up updating the stats on that site, and it's not difficult to see why as it now undermines their own case. In 2001 the number of road fatalities was 3,443, whilst in 2008 (the last year for which I can find full figures) it was 2,538, an annual compound reduction rate of about 5%. Using their preferred measure, fatalities per bn vehicle kilometres, the reduction was even more - an annualised reduction rate of a little over 6%.

    So, whatever argument there might be about speed cameras, it's extremely difficult to make a statistical case that they are counter-productive in terms of road safety.

    On the subject of pure the pure physics involved, the kinetic energy that has toi be dissipated in a crash goes up to the square of speed, so a 20% increase in speed result increases the amount of energy to be lots by 44%. The vehicle will travel an extra 20% distance in the time taken for a given reaction time (which includes other road users including pedestrians) and the braking distance is distinctly non-linear with speed so that 20% extra speed would result in about a 44% increase in stopping distance after the pedal was depressed. Then there is the point that it is simplier easier to lose control, all other things being equal, at higher speeds.

    Of course it's not speed alone, or motorways would be out most dangerous roads when they are actually the safest. It's speed in context and mixed-traffic roads and, especially, rural ones are, per mile travelled, the most dangerous.

    nb. if motorcycles are taken out of the equation, then the fatality rates fell considerably faster than that.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Flame

      drop in fatalities= from a very bad year to very good year, ie. random noise

      "Whatever people's personal feeling about speed cameras, then there has been a very considerable drop in road fatalities."

      Choosing the years right you could say anything about any statistics by comparing one year to another year and then getting "considerable drop" of 20%. Yearly variation from mean value is 15% but you don't say that, that would ruin the value of announcement, wouldn't it?

      Also: Not on the roads where the cameras are. You'll notice that they very carefully avoid to say that. Those roads see the steady increase of rear-end collisions and otherwise the same as other roads, so the cameras are actually increasing the accident rate than lessen it.

      Counting fatalities is statistical trick, easier to manipulate than amount of accidents, which is much higher and thus less variable year-by-year basis. Also discarding the evolution of cars is blatant omission: Safety belts, air bags and general passive safety has increased tremendously from 2001 to 2008 and they don't attribute a single life saved to these. Lying bastards.

      "So, whatever argument there might be about speed cameras, it's extremely difficult to make a statistical case that they are counter-productive in terms of road safety."

      When your whole organization is dedicated to prove cameras are increasing the safety, you don't publish any data which could be "used wrong". It's that simple why they don't have any newer data. Or they bother to make excuses anymore, cameras are already everywhere, why bother? It costs money and the purpose of cameras is to make money, not to spend it.

      Finnish road safety authority, obviously by mistake, published one, quite large research paper (2 years, 15 roads with cameras and 15 otherwise similar roads without) and noticed that effects cameras brought: rear end collisions: Increase 22%, others: Zero, nada, zilch. As statistically valid result as you can get in a small country.

      Decrease in safety, increase in revenue. Proved by authority backed research. The research paper vanished from public very quickly and now it doesn't even exist in their reseach catalogs. Gee, I wonder why ...

  5. Gavin 2

    +10% is wrong

    >I never understood the fuss about speed cameras, you have to be travelling in excess of the >speed limit + 10% to get a ticket. That's hardly dificult is it?

    I thought this as well but it's wrong. I went on a speed awareness recently (instead of the fine and points for speeding). Was told that 10% is a guideline only, some forces are going for zero tolerance.

    1. Richard 12 Silver badge

      Zero tolerance? Take them to court then.

      Ask the Chief of Police in those areas what the tolerance of the camera is, how often that camera is calibrated, and if they check calibration immediately before and after every single photograph is taken.

      Then ask them what the legal tolerance of a car speedometer is, and therefore how exactly they expect a road user to comply.

      Alternatively, you could wait until said Chief is caught speeding by such a camera. Oh yeah - that already happened, didn't it.

    2. Circadian
      Unhappy

      @+10% is wrong

      Oh dear. That is bad news. It means that whoever is in charge has no clue about margins of error, gauge capability, and all the other typically engineering type stuff :-(

      If they start enforcing "zero tolerance" then they have "zero clue" about how stuff works in real life. Hmm, OK, that's tautalogical.

      Still, could be interesting to see if there are class-action suits against car-manufacturers about the accuracy of their speedometers. And all the expense of ensuring that every speed cam is properly calibrated at the appropriate frequency laid down by the manufacturers.

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Flame

      "Didn't see it"

      ">I never understood the fuss about speed cameras, you have to be travelling in excess of the >speed limit + 10% to get a ticket. That's hardly dificult is it?"

      You aren't geting the point, aren't you?

      Who tells you what _is the speed limit_? You just "need to know" and not like general knowledge like laws in general, but right now, at this spot. And this changes several times in a minute, all the time. 2 hours, >200 changes and one mistake is enough to get you busted. Show me any other law that changes 200 times in a two hours? To random values, on top of that.

      Humans are not machines and the thieves who do install cameras do know that extremely well, it's enough that 1 in 100 makes a mistake at any given point, that brings in nice revenue effortlessy. Pure statistics.

      But, to the point: Who tells you?

      No-one. Defininitely not the police, before giving you the ticket. Maybe afterwards.

      Do you want to guess why is that?

      RFID on the speed limit post and reader to car: automatic speed limit registration, which will never happen because the idea of cameras is generate as much revenue as they can and confusing the drivers of current speed limit is essential part of that, that's why there's always a lot of speed limit posts. Automatic data would ruin this and thus ruin the revenue: It will never happen. technology for this is already existing and practically free. It's just not used. Gee, I wonder why?

      Most accidents are caused by people who "didn't see" other car(!), how do you expect people to see something as small as speed limit sign? Especially when there are several of those in every mile, all different, all the time.

      Very well tuned machine vision makes an error about 1 in 10 000 objects, in laboratory. In road the error percentage increases to 1%, in rain or snowstorm 100%. And now you tell it's not difficult, just don't look at the road or other cars, just look at the side of the road, there might be speed limit posts.

  6. Anonymous Coward
    Go

    It's not the camera it's the location

    Speed cameras and speed traps are fine in the right place. I.E. where they are supposed to be at accident black spots, bad junctions and built up areas.

    But for some reason rather than putting cameras outside schools and busy shopping areas they stick them in the middle of mile long straights where the only accidents have been caused by alcoholics driving into ditches.

    Cameras take no account of dangerous driving. Something I think is far bigger problem these days. Tailgating and poor lane discipline are rife. Driving standards are frankly piss poor these days but as long as you stick below 70 you'll never get caught.

    1. Robert E A Harvey

      Not to mention Lorries

      The wretched things are set to catch speeding cars, not speeding lorries. Which is the biggest danger?

      1. ravenviz Silver badge

        Re: Not to mention Lorries

        I've always thought speed limits should be momentum based, so the consideration is on the energy of the vehicle, not just its speed. So bikes can travel faster, lorries slower, on the same stretch of road. Where this falls down however is that roads are not just long and straight, they have junctions and intersections. If someone pulling out sees a 30mph zone, sees a car x distance away, are they to assume it's doing 50? Probably, but the car travelling at 50 in the 30 zone will make a lot of mess broadsiding someone who pulls out in front of them.

        *and lower speed improves traffic flow, again due to people being able to pull out of junctions

  7. Anonymous Coward
    Flame

    A reasonable start...

    This needs to go much further, any camera being used as a source of revenue must be removed and destroyed.

    ANPR cameras must be strictly controlled and used to only locate a specific vehicle where there is sufficient evidence of a genuine crime. No records of other vehicles can be kept for any reason.

    Mobile speed cameras are to be scrapped.

    All speed cameras must have prominent warning signs, if there is a sign, there must be a camera, no camera can be installed unless the signs are present.

    The whole question of 'speed causes accidents' needs to be reevaluated, this should be carried out by the Association of British Drivers and the conclusions implemented

  8. Anonymous Coward
    Grenade

    Cameras Abuse Motorists and Reduce Respect for Law and Police

    They are indiscriminate money makers and job retainers for the pen pushers that work the tickets through the system.

    Biggest cause of accidents: Tailgating lorries and cars...People not taking driving seriously...Being taught to pass a test & not to drive with intelligence and safety...Too many distractions (speed cameras, mobile phones, masses of signs, etc.).

    Speed only helps an accident, when it's wielded by a nutter and that can include all those that think they can multi-task beyond that necessary to drive well.

    Accidents will always happen, but care and attention can help you miss the vast majority. That care should mean slowing down BELOW the limit, when it seems appropriate.

    My road experience shows me most drivers ignore the 30 limit until they see a camera...slow down...speed up. I personally agree with 30's and most 40's, can't see the point in many 50's, find the 60 one annoying and the 70 one daft in many many places, but it depends on road conditions, including volume of traffic.

    Vehicles are much more capable nowadays and drivers need to learn how to use them safely, not just to some arbitrary limit like speed. Maybe a more relaxed but educational approach outside 30's would get speed down in towns, where kids do stupid things and old people do slow things.

    Police should do what they used to do, stop, talk, then nick IF the transgressor was doing something dangerous at that place, but generally, get nicking real criminals.

    Dare I say, I'm beginning to respect the current government more that the police...Nah, but it's getting closer, each time they say things that follow common sense and each time the cut a stupid spending ideas.

    While the police keep pushing out statistics that are always questionable because they rarely fit with real life. Just like the AA who last year claimed their membership supported lower speed limits and higher penalties for speeding. They didn't ask me, so I'm no longer a member! That's those smoothed statistics at play again.

    1. Red Bren

      What police used to do

      "Police should do what they used to do, stop, talk, then nick IF the transgressor was doing something dangerous at that place"

      Something dangerous used to include driving while black. Cameras are impartial, they don't let underlying prejudice interfere with their operation or turn a blind lens for their masonic friends.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Nice thought.

        Unfortunately, as far as being white and/or mason - if you decide to fight the ticket, you'll find yourself facing a bench which is probably both. The prejudice is simply better organised these days.

  9. Anonymous Coward
    Grenade

    Headless chickens

    Daily Mail readers - Stop whinging and moaning and start up a fund to buy the cameras yourselves.if they're so bloody important to you.

    The rest of us can think of more effective ways to spend £40k than a device that only polices 50 yards of road and waves drunk imbeciles through.

  10. Stuart 22
    FAIL

    Tax the stupid - but who are the stupid?

    Taxes on criminals reduced this week. Taxes on non-criminals to rise next week?

    To fund the extra casualties the hospitals will have to handle. Oh we are cancelling hospitals too ..

    Joined up thinking at work ...

  11. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    They are not...

    ...needed anymore anyway....the SPECS system is being installed and funded by central gov.

    That combines speed-over-distance with [fixed] video surveillance and ANPR...

    Gotcha three ways: how fast, what you look like and whose car it is [registered to]

  12. Zirzirikos
    Go

    About frigging time

    The NSL was set in 1965 when the average car on sale had a max speed of 72mph, woeful passive safety features (seatbelts/airbags/crunch zones) and even more woeful active safety features (breaks/traction) compared to even the lowliest piece of crap on sale in the second hand market today.

    As others have pointed out, you can drive safely at 100mph and dangerously at 10mph. Yes, all things being equal, more speed equals higher chance of a serious accident but other factors are much more important and this is all about risk vs. convenience - if you want everyone to be perfectly safe you'd have to ban driving altogether. There's a sweet spot somewhere, and I think it's fair to say we're well below it at the moment.

    In the UK today, even on an average family car you spend most of the time looking at the speedo instead of looking at the road to make sure you stay beneath the absurdly low speed limits and that's dangerous in itself. 30mph should only apply anywhere were pedestrians are often by the road; on a clear day a motorway with 3 lanes and barriers on both sides is perfectly safe at 90 or even 100mph.

    1. Robert E A Harvey
      FAIL

      and

      The nsl was set as part of the fuel economy measures after the first oil price shock. As far as I know no evidence has ever been set before parliament that 70 is safer than 60 or 80.

  13. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Burn them, blow them up or otherwise destroy them.

    Now all you Brits need to do is to keep destroying them and pretty soon the local governments won't be able to afford the replacements. Stick it to Big Brother again, guys!

    For a nice collection of destroyed Gatso's, visit the following site:

    http://www.speedcam.co.uk/gatso2.htm

    And no, I am not involved with that site; I just like to see pics of burnt and torn up speed cameras. :D

    1. MnM
      Happy

      Smile restored!

      After world cup despair.

      Presumably the funds to replace these are now less.

      A currently unburned favourite plies its trade on the three lane A1, in the little-advertised 50 zone, just before the siren call of two HUGE national speed limit signs. F*ckers.

  14. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    The Problem

    The problem I think most motorists have with speed cameras (and its not just speed cameras, it's basically all automated systems) is there is no judgement available. You broke the rule, that's it.

    Case in point: My Son severely injured himself some 10 years ago. Rather than wait the hour or so we knew the ambulance would take, I drove him and his Mum to hospital, and on the way, yes I broke the speed limit. I was duly pulled over, and explained to the Officer what happened. Not only did I not get fined, I got escorted to the hospital with the good officer making sure traffic kept out of our way.

    Speed cameras can't do that.

    There's also the gripe about the automatic payment system that sent a friend of mine a bill for £103.01 because an error had meant that she paid one penny too little on her council tax, but thats another story.

    1. Steve Evans

      Agreed

      I have exactly that problem. They are letter of the law, not spirit of the law.

      There is one near me by a school. 30mph.

      If I go through there at 35mph at 2am on a clear dry night, I will get a ticket.

      If someone goes through there at school kick out time at 29mph in the pouring rain they won't.

      Who is most likely to hurt someone?

      Then again, what am I thinking... Who's got a hope of doing anything like 29mph at school kick out time... But that's a different rant!

      Another camera near me had an interesting effect on accident stats. Yes it did reduce the number of injuries (shifted them down the road 500 yards I'm sure), but curiously it doubled (from 1 to 2) the number of fatalities. They didn't mention that statistic... Yeah, I know, lies, damn lies etc.

      1. Intractable Potsherd
        Thumb Up

        The letter v the spirit of the law

        There is no excuse for black letter law in a democracy. Everything depends on context. Strict liability laws are inherently wrong, and simply act for the benefit of the lawmakers, not the populace. Once this government has sorted out the mess left it by the last bunch, we need to get them to review black letter law enforcement (oh, and "targets" such as the number of rape convictions, but that is another story).

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Lack of discretion...

      ...isn't a side issue with Gatsos, or with automated systems of any kind. They're the actual point of the exercise, so that the jobsworths can wash their hands of any and all responsibility. Decision making - especially hard decision making - is alien to such people. Much easier to blame the system/machine/computer than actually earn their salaries.

      On the subject of other stories... My local council has just sent a court judgment and bailiff's warning to an elderly neighbour for non-payment of council tax. The fact that the old gentleman has been desperately ill in hospital for 6 months (probably his last stop) impresses the council clones not a jot. Without 'appropriate documentation' (which of course the old guy has been in no position to provide) they claim to be powerless, even to lay the matter temporarily aside. When my wife called at the council offices to discuss the matter (she didn't trust me to hold my temper) she was told that if she wasn't the next of kin (he has none) she should mind her own business. A social worker phoned me yesterday to say they were concerned about the old man - I told them they'd taken their own sweet time to get around to it!

      Bloody jobsworths - it's always the 'system' to blame and never them.

  15. RichardB

    @the historical stats

    I wonder how much of that is to do with vehicle age and design?

    Also how many teenagers are now priced off the roads?

    How do those stats break down when untaxed + unmot'd, racing and vehicles engaged in (proper - ie not traffic related) criminal activity are taken out of the mix?

  16. heyrick Silver badge

    What was he really saying?

    " “There are now three times as many speed cameras in this country as there were in 2000, and the public must be confident that speed cameras are there for road safety, not as a cash cow. Under this Government, they will be." "

    Under this Government, they will be there... as a cash cow?!?

  17. Stu_The_Jock
    Coffee/keyboard

    Cameras vs Other safety methods

    As a "younger driver" I have been penalised for the last 18 years, first it was drivers under 25 that were a problem, so insurance was extortionate, then 30 and so on.

    In 18 years of driving I've had one speeding fine, issued by a camera, on a dual carriageway outside Glasgow. For as long as I could remember it was a 50 mph zone, always had been. ( My father agreed) but they changed the limit to 30, as an "accident blackspot".

    No longer living in Glasgow, I was unfortunate enough to have glanced in my mirrors to check it was safe to change lane, and then over my shoulder as you should, and in that time, I missed the solitary 30 sign on the right hand side, the van I was about to go past blocked the other.

    I got a fine for 47 in a 30 zone. Surely if it was an accident blackspot then better signage to warn of the lowered sped limit, the reducing width lines across lanes approaching the junction (what happened to thise, they told you you NEED to be braking pretty darned soon) would be a better safety measure than a yellow box set to trigger at BELOW the "normal" speed limit on a non-residential area dual carriageway.

    Tell the councils they can't have the £40k for a camera, but they CAN have it in a dedicated traffic policing unit. Areas with active traffic policing see a big drop in crime, and not just speeding, as "human enforcers" can also react to other things, like an assault, or an accident on a narrow twisty city street, sorry specially designed traffic safety chicane system . . . . .

    /Rant mode OFF/ because I escaped the UK to a Norway. Where incidently I've been breathalised on average every 3 months, usually about lunchtime, in the random checks they do, and speed cameras are controlled. For example near the bottom of a 2 1/2 mile 1:12 descent in a tunnel (dead straight) just before it turns 30 degrees. Trust me, arguing with unlined rock tunnel walls at high speeds will NEVER leave the car/driver as a winner.

  18. David Kelly 2

    Revenue Collected

    Once Upon A Time, over-the-road trucks in the USA bore signs on the rear doors stating to the effect, "This vehicle pays $12,400 annually in taxes." back when $12k was several times what it is today.

    Would be a worthy step towards "transparency in government" for speed cameras and traffic light cameras to bear a similar sign. "This speed camera levied $120,000 in fines last year."

  19. Anonymous Coward
    Happy

    foolproof way to get round speed cameras -

    drive inside the speed limit.

    if you can't do it, you're not fit to be on the road, sucker

    (no points on my licence since i passed in 1974)

    1. ml100

      how constructive

      Youre probably the twat that insists on driving too slowly on the motorway - moving lane to prevent others getting on with their own business.

      And insist on driving at the speed limit in heavy rain and fog.

      But well done with the clean license.

      Hope you become the victim of road rage.

    2. MnM
      Go

      Or, stand up for yourself

      Two lane motorway. I'm in the outside lane and see a camera sign approaching the crest of a hill (so there may be a camera soon, out of sight). I do 70, as these Royston Vasey cameras sometimes don't give you the leeway you tend to get around London. I notice a black car a long way behind me is rocketing along. Sure enough, there's a car in the left lane doing 68, so I can't move directly into the left lane.

      Dilemma: Do I brake and try to slip in behind the blissfully unaware law-abider to my left, potentially forcing the speeder onto the brakes more than if I just held 70 in the outside lane (this guy was doing an easy 110-120 and seemed to be speeding up). Or do I hold firm, definitely forcing the speeder to brake? Or do I speed up and pull in in front of the car on my left, by far the safest option on an otherwise empty motorway?

      I sped up and was promptly flashed at 85. The guy behind me didn't even get flashed, he was so close behind. I know this because I defended myself in court, and the camera operator later gave me a description of the next car on the reel, and it wasn't black. He also told me that the camera can take photos every 1/3 or 1/2 second, I forget which, but the guy was up my arse anyway.

      So fuck off, you moralising dimwit.

      I went to court, read copies of 'The Mason' in the waiting room, said my piece (a defence of 'duress', on advice from a barrister friend, which had the clerk of the court flipping through his books). I said any police car who witnessed this would have been glad to see me get out of the way safely, and would have pulled over the serious speeder. Although the gentlemanly prosecutor said to me afterwards he thought I did pretty well, the bench had none of it. They awarded a light three point spanking and a meagre financial penalty. I paid and handed over my licence, but I suppose their worships must have seen sense eventually, as my licence was posted back to me unendorsed! Still clean, all my 15 year driving career!

      Justice served, albeit strangely - but a worthwhile trip to court. They do help you along if you represent yourself, although I think I was helped more than most.

  20. Graham Marsden
    Boffin

    When these cameras...

    ... can spot people tailgating or driving drunk or using bloody mobile phones whilst driving etc etc, I'll be happy to support them!

    There used to be something that did this job... I think it was called a Traffic Policeman...

    1. Steve Evans

      and...

      Not indicating on roundabouts!

      Round my way they're usually taxis/mini-cabs, the first people to start tail gating and getting impatient if you hold them up when they are empty... They go much slower when they have a fair... Odd that.

  21. jizzflam
    Grenade

    stats lies and farcts

    some interesting things appear when you look at the stats of accidents - such as green cars have more crashes than other colours - nearly twice as many as silver cars, but nearly twice as many silver car accidents result in serious injury or death (silver cars are driven by bellends?). Lloyd is the most likely first name to have a 'collision' (the word accident is out of favour as it implies no one is at fault ). The week before Christmas is deadly; one day has higher average incidents than an entire 'normal' month, generally 'black Monday' - this is why these factoids have a large impact on you insurance (just try changing you forename next time) - I could go on but the most interesting : Why we have a 70mph limit ? Money. As can be seen at

    http://www.brake.org.uk/motorway-crash-barriers ( or the highways 'site')

    that metal thing separating you from the oncoming motorway traffic is rated to contain a 1.5 ton CAR at no more than 70mph impacting at no more than 20 degrees. Anything heavier/faster/ more direct or with a higher centre of gravity than a CAR will breach it and enter oncoming traffic. Most average cars now weigh more than this (even a spec'd up 'Mini' comes close enough when occupied). God forbid you meet a Chinese gent called Lloyd driving a silver/green 2.5 ton Range Rover lorry coming the other way at 90 on the monday before christmas . Good luck.

    1. Graham Marsden

      @jizzflam

      "that metal thing separating you from the oncoming motorway traffic is rated to contain a 1.5 ton CAR"

      And it will also do damn all to protect a motorcyclist who is liable to either slam into a solid post or slide right under it.

      Of course upgrading barriers to actualy provide proper safety protectin costs money...

  22. ShaggyDoggy

    RE: CCTV

    "You only need to watch one or two of the usual cops on tv shows to see that they play an important part in reducing crime"

    Erm, if they reduce crime so well, there would be barely anything worth showing captured on a cctv cam ?

    1. Steve Evans

      Re: Re: CCTV...

      I remember about 2 week after my local high street got CCTV, someone smashed in the front window of the chemists and empties the place.

      The local paper reported it and said "Police believe the raiders must have been from outside the area as local people are aware of the highly publicised new CCTV system."

      Which was fair enough... However the last sentence in the report just cracked me up.

      "Police are appealing for witnesses."

      CCTV that good eh? lol!

  23. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Review speed limits too

    Good news. However, we also need a review of speed limits and a way for motorists to realistically challenge the imposition of ridiculously low new limits on perfectly safe bits of road.

    There are plenty of those around here. Wide straight roads with no turnings, pedestrians, buildings or anything really in sight. They used to have 60mph limits but they're now 30 (or even 20 in some cases). Everyone, even the cops themselves, drive along them well over the speed limit because the limit is so stupidly inappropriate. Except that once in a while, the police will hide a mobile camera behind a bush and rake in the cash.

    This does nothing for road safety. It does everything to undermine confidence in the road safety authorities and the police. In my view that loss isn't worth the money they get as a result.

  24. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Actions speak louder than words

    There's a bridge connecting Runcorn to Widnes, it's four lanes, no central reservation and accidents happen on it all the time - it's really quite dangerous - 40mph speed limit.

    So where do Chesire Road Safety Partnership point their mobile camera vans at?

    Traffic on the bridge? Traffic entering the bridge? Traffic leaving the bridge?

    None of the above.

    They point their guns at traffic with the bridge half a mile behind them, 10 yards from the 50mph sign, three lane dual carriageway with central reservation and no padestrian access.

    Safety my a**e!!!!

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