Pakistani authorities have ordered ISPs to block access to Facebook ahead of an "Everybody Draw Mohammed Day" planned by users for tomorrow. Prompted by a court order, the Pakistan Telecommunications Authority today told providers to suspend access. The order runs until 31 May. The Facebook group for "Everybody Draw Mohammed …
Hero for a day
Have to agree that posting a drawing safely to 'show them extremist Muslims' that we ain't scared of them means precisely zero, and its childishness would, I suspect, offend my MOTR Muslim friends simply because it is childish.
But you don't need to carry a sign of a black gay-married Jesus in Texas to face real danger. I did that just as an ordinary out Lesbian being white, middle-class and myself. Anything extra (a placard, whatever) would have been superfluous: I was already in danger asking for directions. I will skip the details, but let's just say I was glad I was out of town before nightfall.
I do get tired of the dominant group showing how brave it is by taunting the less dominant. What courage, etc etc.
So many religious beliefs need serious disrespecting.
Its the religious belief of some that should they strap themselves with dynamite, wander into a crowded cafe and detonate themselves they will get a direct pass to heaven. You might think it offensive and ignorant to disrespect that belief, but I think it idiotic in the extreme not to.
Its the religious belief of some that women should not be educated nor have a say in who they marry. You might think it offensive and ignorant to disrespect that belief, but i think it misogynistic not to.
Its the religious belief of some that contraception is a sin, despite the multitude of social and health problems that can be prevented or helped by the use of prophylactics. You might think it offensive and ignorant to disrespect that belief, but I think it terribly callous not to.
I will respect a persons right to religious belief about as much as I respect a persons right to psychosis, after all they're nearly the same thing. If someone has a religious belief then the practice of that belief better not negatively impact on me or the community/society I live in if you want me to respect your right to that belief, and in a globally connected world that is damn near impossible.
In this case their religious belief requires the surrender of a tiny little bit of my freedom. Well F*** that I say. I may never have a good reason for exercising that tiny freedom, but I am loath to give it up for fear of offending some nutjob's religious beliefs.
Having said that I am pragmatic and to smooth my ride through life I will tolerate religious belief where the impact is minimal, that does not require that I respect it.
As a final point, you sir lack the conviction of your beliefs. Call yourself an atheist? the logical conclusion of that belief is that all people of faith are at least a little bit unhinged. You're more an agnostic if you think its alright for the god botherers to perpetuate these myths and mental illnessess.
To my mind,
I think it's offensive and ignorant for someone to expect me to abide by their religious beliefs when I am not a follower of their religion. I wouldn't deliberately go out of my way to offend the religious, but if I want to draw something I will. If I want to consider belief in a magic sky fairy a form of mental illness, I will. I don't accept the thought that it might offend someone as a valid reason, on it's own, to refrain from doing or saying something I would otherwise want to.
That being said, I wouldn't be a part of this drawing Mohammed day because I can't see the point, but if I did want to draw Mohammed for some reason, someone's religion is simply not going to be a factor I consider. And that applies whether their particular magic sky fairy is called Allah, Jehovah, Ahura Mazda, or Bob.
Thats a bit stupid. You could go to a millwall game dressed in a man u shirt and get fucked over. Go to our local pub "the crown" and profess that you are polish and you'd probably get the snot kicked out of you (lots of anti poles near here).
But in the same vein, put said group of people taking pictures of "dress up like a woman and carry a sign that shows a gay-married black skinned Jesus wearing a gay pride t-shirt giving an abortion to a pregnant preteen" on facebook and see if texas goes to court to block access to facebook. You also wouldnt get the pope calling jihad and death to all ^^ would you?
"a sign that shows a gay-married black skinned Jesus wearing a gay pride t-shirt giving an abortion to a pregnant preteen"
I'm sure even Hockney would struggle to get that one done.
I'm curious, why do they have to go to Texas? I don't think the FB group is advocating everyone travelling to Pakistan to draw Mo.
If beliefs can't stand up to a bit of ridicule or scrutiny, then they're not very sound.
As an atheist are you not p*ssed off that the various religious powers around the world are trying to push their beliefs and views onto you? I am.
I don't need a special book to tell me that I don't want to go around killing people, but I do reserve the right to take the piss out of those who do and then don't condemn those who claim the same beliefs, but go around killing people because they've been "insulted".
And by that I mean all the Abrahamic faiths particularly.
It's no good saying you are non-violent and peaceful if you don't back that up by actually being non-violent and peaceful.
...think it's offensive and ignorant to disrespect other peoples religion beliefs."
Wow, just wow.
1. You think they give a flying f--- about _your_ beliefs? They wouldn't think twice about locking you up or worse for heresy, blasphemy or apostacy or other thought crimes.
2. We mock all kinds of non-religious beliefs - politics, sexuality, artistic, musical taste. Why does religion get special treatment? It'd be nice if the religious freaks kept their snouts out of peoples political beliefs, sexual mores, artistic tastes and musical preferences (think heavy metal), but they don't.
3. Free speech > people's feelings.
Look we all know why they want his image to be kept secret it's an IP issue
It is because people always assume he is like the jewish god i.e. human looking.
In actuallity from a distance he looks somewhat like a green rectangle with a crescent and star done out in white. Hey wait a minute, I know some people who uses his image in vain daily, burn the infidels.
I say take a leaf out of the religious maniacs books and do unto all of them as they would unto others.
I always wondered if god is love/peace/compassion etc. why so many people are killed in his/her/her/star crescent green rectangles name
Why stop at Mohammed?
Why not have a "draw your favourite invisible sky daddy" day?
There must be thousands of gods to choose from*
That would be fairer for all people of faith.
* however not as many as there once were...
In a hoodie
So here we go ...
Mohammed in a hoodie...
thats not mohammed
Oh my god you drew Kenny
The title is required, and must contain letters and/or digits.
Not just in Pakistan...
...but right here in the Holiday Inn, Nottingham as well:
"This page has been blocked by your Service Provider"
...and even the BBC Search results page was blocked too!
(Accessed via mobile connection to view and post)
Draw what you like
But remember that at the same time, there's been a massive amount of interference in muslim lands which has inflamed opposition and resistance to millions of people being killed. And not only are the outsiders killing and stealing mineral wealth to bolster their economies, now they're taking the piss. This however, doesn't make it right to riot and commit violence because they're annoyed.
We're lucky to have the freedom to say and do what we want in our own countries, yet it's more important to us to wind up certain groups, whilst out goverments work out which country to bomb next, and we sit and do sweet FA about it.
Could somebody work out how many people have been killed in the name of socialism and democracy and religion, we'd then have an objective fact in order to compare which ideology is worse for humanity?
Wise heads would ignore the cartoons and focus on a world in which we can justify invading and oppressing others in order to make our own lives comfortable.
The group is full of Muslims either
a) saying how peaceful they are
b) threatening to kill people
Mine a picture of Mo hiding behind a pint of his favourite beer.
If you look closely you can see him with his 7year old wife......
The ghost in the machine
Arthur Koestler maintained that the problem with people is not so much their capacity for violence but rather the underlying drive to belong to a group which is hard-wired into human psychology. Perhaps he wasn't far wrong.
The Tltie Is Rqireud, And msut cnotian lteters and/or dgitis
Everyone seems to be offended by everything these days.
And that really offends me!!!
Now that you have rejected my last post, I suggest to read the Quran for your own and verify my claims. You will see that I made up nothing.
I rejected it in the interests of trying to keep the scrapping to a minimum, jlocke, it's not a reflection on whether I think you're right or not.
For future ref, it's Sarah, not Sara. Ta (rah).
This protest will do nothing
One, it's upsetting my Islamic friends.
Two, their families and friends in Pakistan now can't talk to them on Facebook.
Regardless of who you blame - the group, Facebook, terrorists, the Pakistani government - the people who are being damaged by this battle are, as always, normal people.
That's why I'm against this protest. Yes, you have a right to free speech, but just because you have the right doesn't mean you HAVE to exercise it and unneccesarily upset people. It's just childish.
Sunni / Shia
"Islamic teaching typically forbids depictions of its prophet." Actually Shias are more relaxed about this, and Shia art sometimes depicts the prophet. Sunnis mostly don't, though, except for some very old pictures. So it isn't really an Islamic thing as such, more a Sunni thing.
RE: This protest will do nothing
>Yes, you have a right to free speech, but just because you have the right doesn't mean you HAVE to exercise it and unneccesarily upset people. It's just childish.
Ok, fair enough we have the right to freedom of speech, the problem is however those who oppose OUR freedoms in OUR OWN countries!
A friend of mine said it best:
"They all complain about how hard their lives were in their own country, so they decide they want a better life and move to Europe/America/where ever in the free world they desire to live in, and as soon as they get here they bitch and moan about the freedom we all enjoy"
Although his statement may not represent the mass majority, the minority certainly aren't happy and cry the loudest.
A troll: he's Mohammed!
it's been shut down
Facebook seem to have shut the page down. How predictable that they be so weak and pathetic, just like the people sending death threats to members that posted images.
For all those who still don't understand how all this came about...
1: South Park episode has Mohammed dressed in a teddy bear outfit (so you can't see him).
2. Matt and Trey get death threats from Muslim extremists for depicting the prophet.
3. A cartoonist made a cartoon poster "Everybody draw Mohommed day" organised by a fake group called Cacah, featuring pictures of the prophet as various inanimate objects. Nothing more than a cartoon, not really suggesting that a real EDMD be created.
4. It goes viral. Youtube fills with videos encouraging people to draw Mohommed, even if it's just a stick figure. Facebook group gets set up.
5. Cartoonist distances herself from the protest, as does the creator of the Facebook group.
6. Muslims all over the world tell us how they're offended and we should be more understanding. Others say "sure, draw him, but be nice so everyone can see what a great guy he was".
7. People who HAVE read the Quran, who follow the human rights violations in Arab countries and have witnessed their own countries come under attack by Islamic extremists cry "WTF??? Why should we back down? "
Here's my picture of Mohammed, peering over a wall:
I'm not a Muslim and I DON'T have to respect Islamic law since I don't live in an Islamic country.....yet. In the same way that Wahabists feel no quilt about teaching their children to call for the murder of Jews, I feel no guilt for pissing of Wahabists. It doesn't even matter that they're Muslims - if Christians, Jews, Hindus and Buddists made the same ridiculous death threats, I'd feel inclined to give them all the finger too...
8. The English Defence League (or scum like them) have a field day.
Vain attempt to inject sanity
Do they really care that these people have drawn Mohammed? Probably not, actually. What bothers them is that 50,000 people want to actively disrespect their religion, and Facebook don't seem to care about it.
If 50,000 Pakistanis joined a Facebook group called "Wipe your shitty backside with the American flag", I suspect Americans would get upset fairly quickly. Or if 50,000 Jews joined a group called "Dip your circumcised cock in the font of a Catholic church". And both groups would, I suspect, be deleted by Facebook admins pretty damn quickly.
Or try making a picture of the Virgin Mary, which (and I quote from Wikipedia) "depicted a black African Mary surrounded by images from blaxploitation movies and close-ups of female genitalia cut from pornographic magazines, and elephant dung". Chris Ofili was *very* not popular with Christians after that one.
While I'm not opposed to this "protest" outright
it does seem incredibly childish.
A group of 10 people threatened South Park over a drawing of Mohammed (or something... I stopped watching South Park when I turned 12), and now over 50 thousand (a lot more than that but the FB group is now gone so I can't check) people have aligned themselves to a cause that basically amounts to the wanton trolling of Islam - purportedly with the goal of using their free speech to bitch about how they don't have free speech.
Some of the pictures did make me laugh, but I have to say that I've come away with the impression that this is a needlessly divisive stunt that only stands to cause a backlash that will limit people's freedoms in the long run. Pakistan have already banned Facebook and you can bet your bottom dollar Labour bureaucrats are drafting knee-jerk legislation right now. At least they would be if the Miliband clones weren't bitch slapping each other around over leadership. Just goes to show what a joke that party is when their choice of leader is between 2 brothers - neither of whom have any discernible human qualities whatsoever.
... but I digress.
A new low...
Well, with a few noteable exceptions, this is a new low for The Register's Commentators.
"These people are different, they have different beliefs and different values to us: Let's piss them off and upset them, that will help in fostering understanding between nations and work towards world peace."
Really, some of the comments here would shame the Daily Mail, do any of you have friends or collegues who are muslim? Have any of you any idea about Islam? (Don't bother answering, I won't believe you anyway.) If a few of you could just stop and think a bit before vomiting your ill concieved opinions out onto the internet, maybe the world might be a nicer place.
The larger picture
I think the fixation on Islam here is a moot point, its more of an expression of distaste at censorship. The drawing of Mohammed has just been used to bring it to the fore as its so controversial, particularly with the Danish cartoons and the fact there is no good reason for it to be banned in a western, non-islamic country.
I respect the ideal, if not the methods.
The pirate symbol looks a bit like a dead Mohammed with his well used scimitars by his side...its how he would have wanted to go. I take this as my contribution to the drawing debate.
"Have any of you any idea about Islam? "
I have read quite a few pages of the Quran and there are peiodic requests for violence, lethal and non-lethal.
The PC brigade denies this in the name of "tolerance" and "respect". All "a problem of translation".
The sucide-bombers are just taking their "holy book literally".
Now will Sarah censor this ?
No, because I don't 'censor' comments. Please stop being hysterical and elevating your witterings to the level of something greater.
Respect for religious feelings...
...or respect for psychotic episodes. Same old, same old. Christian, Muslim, Jewish, Buddhist - once someone mistakes their religious feelings for reality they're headed for the closed ward.
Says a Zen Buddhist...
@A new low...
I think you're missing the point - this isn't a case of "lets piss off Muslims for fun". Revolution Muslim started this by threatening to kill the creators of a cartoon show for depicting a prophet in a teddy bear outfit (thus ensuring he wasn't being portrayed, and that it could be anyone in that bear suit, and a screen capture would give you no idea as to what it was about or who the guy in the suit was).
Lets put this in perspective - Lets say I belong to a religion where I believe that everyone who draws a picture of a sunny day should be put to death. Sounds silly yes, and you'd write me off as a kook and forget about it. Then when you draw a picture of a sunny day, I then directly threaten to kill you FOR DRAWING A SUNNY DAY. Suddenly I'm not just a kook, I'm a danger to your very life. On top of that, I've clearly lost all sense. Would you just roll over and say "Yeah, you're right. I'm wrong. Sorry, I'll never EVER draw a sunny day again"? I'd hope not.
There is a very real war going on here. Fundamentalist Islam is creeping into our lives from every angle. If fundamentalist Christianity was doing the same thing (and in the US you could argue it is) then people would see the threat the same way and treat it the same. Here in the UK we're already getting "suggestions" by some Muslims that office workers shouldn't eat during Ramadam as they consider it offensive. We already have Sharia courts, so Muslims can deal with things like theft, assault, infidelity, homosexuality etc in secret rather than report it to the police and follow UK law. And lets not forget that in Sharia Law many crimes are punishable by death. I'm a vegetarian, and I'd never "suggest" people not eat meat around me, even if I did find it offensive. If I don't like it, it's up to me to put up with it, or go somewhere else.
In my work I have met and worked with many different people from many different countries and religions, including Muslims. I particularly liked a man called Dhaffir who is an Iraqi but now lives in the the UK. He was funny and hard working with his own flourishing business - nothing like the hate mongerers who are now threatening democracy and our way of life.
Please understand this isn't about hating Muslims, or even hating Islam. It's about standing your ground when someone threatens your life or the lives of others for doing something so innocent as drawing on a piece of paper. Islam forbids the drawing of the prophet because they're terrified of idolatry, the same reason why ancient Mecca is being levelled. But really, do these people honestly believe anyone's going to worship teddy bears instead of Allah because of a South Park episode? Of course not, it's all about control and the need to feel superior, tied to the fact that they really do believe what they say they believe.
Freedom of speech means you can say things others don't agree with or even like. Nothing however gives you the right to threaten to kill others over a theological disagreement.
I'd much rather just get on with everyone - life and let live - but others do not share my viewpoint, and I'll be damned if I'll let them get away with it. World Peace doesn't come from people shouting "Do as we say or we'll kill you".
Ok, this facebook group was either specifically designed to offend muslims en mass or the people who started it are ignorant in the extreme. Dressing it up as a protest doesn't cut it. Let's be clear: Ten people sent death threats to the South Park people, the people who did this do not represent Islam and are not acting within its teachings, hell they may not even be muslims - it could have been people who have interest in discrediting Islam. For someone to then create a protest about this outrage, which will seriously offend a large proportion of muslims is at best disproportionate - especially as it will not single out those who carried out the threats, rather it tars all muslims with the 'violent jihadi' brush. This is why I object to it, it is nothing to do with free speech.
As for the rest of your post, it seems to drift off into the realms of paranoia. You admit that the only muslim you have known was a nice chap, but seem to buy into the nonsense churned out by elements of the tabloid media about not allowing people to eat in offices during Ramadan and Sharia courts in the UK. Sharia courts only exist to "police" matters such as divorce and the like, matters which can also be dealt with by UK courts but are not criminal or are matters which are specific to Islam and are not in contravention of UK/European law. They don't deal with criminal matters, this would still be the the UK police/CPS/Courts. They don't deal on matters of sexuallity, this is not allowed under the human rights act. Sharia courts cannot impose the death penalty. (do you really think they can?) Not allowing eating during Ramadan was suggested in a council, I seem to recall up north somewhere, by a non-muslim and was dropped as soon as it was suggested because the muslims objected to it.
My facebook account disabled, LOL [part 1]
I posted two images at those "everybody draw ..." [the unmentionable] FB pages, which did not actually depict [the unmentionable].
One was simply an image of a T-shirt that had "The Prophet" written on it. The other was a bitmap of a discourse between a devout and an infidel, which contained some ASCII stick-figures, which were NOT labeled [the unmentionable].
I'll be glad to put the text in a separate comment, so that it can be censored separately, if necessary (don't want to get your office bombed, what would I do all day without the Reg).
So anyways just now after I posted the T-shirt picture my account got disabled. I should probably make the T-shirt and walk around in it in meatspace until someone offs me.
(the T-shirt meme of course is that if you wear it you're not depicting [the unmentionable], but all those randoms who take pictures of you with their mobiles will)
My facebook account disabled, LOL [part 2]
Below is the ascii that probably got my facebook account disabled.
Pretty harmless i think
(the comments web-app chews up the stick-figures, but I'm sure you get the idea)
Devout: It is prohibited to depict the prophet and those who do must die!
Infidel: Since your prophet lived long ago, and no-one knows exactly how he looked, is that not strictly speaking a prohibition of labeling the prophet rather than depicting?
D: Your splitting hairs. Amounts to the same thing.
I: Not entirely. If I draw...
I: Chill. No need to stress out just yet. If I draw a stick-man like this:
...and I label it...
D: Watch it!
I: Relax. ...I label it to make sure it doesn't depict your prophet, like so:
_/\_ *NOT* who-you-think-it-is
D: Er- alright.
I: Of course, based on the context of our chat, you could be forgiven for thinking I'm just being sneaky with the labeling and the stick-man is really meant to be your prophet.
D: Hey! Prepare to die, infi...
I: But then it's you who's doing the labeling, not me, so you should really be offing yourself instead.
West vs East
We simply have to accept that Islam cannot be reconciled with Western Ethics. Many other cultures like the Hindus and the Buddhist are no problem whatsoever, because they are simply tolerant of others and their culture.
Just stop that multi-cultural pipe dream and errect solid barriers between the Islamic world and everybody else. If not, we can have two other Afghanistans in Jemen and Somalia. I am sure the Merkins already develop a new superdrone and AI software that will help their soldiers to fight (==lose) those future wars on islamist terror.