back to article Mystic Met closed Europe with computer model

So the UK Met Office closed European civilian airspace on the basis of one computer model, which it didn't check against reality. We already knew that the great volcano shut-down was based on a model, but we didn't know how little atmospheric sampling was performed to test the simulation against the atmosphere. It turns out only …

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  1. Douglas Lowe
    Dead Vulture

    Going to the dogs

    That is all

    1. SilverWave
      Happy

      But... that's the fun, sorting out the Troll bait from the real stories...

      Looking at the video links posted in the comments they do seem to indicate cause for concern...

  2. graham crocker
    Thumb Down

    "Contingency Plan" Definition Required ...

    I keep hearing talk - especially from the chaps at Nats that upon receiving news of the cloud they have implemented a "Contingency Plan".

    What is their "Contingency Plan"? - It looks to me like the ability to say "Stop" when confronted with data, not generated by them, which is compared to a rule book issued by the European agency. Anybody could do that. They appear to have no executive authority, at all.

    In my book, a "Contingency Plan" would include: Alerting Ferry companies to put on extra ship. Alerting coach and rail companies to put on extra vehicles and coaches. Contacting embassies abroad to implement previously agreed visa and travel waivers to ease the chaos abroad and alert UK "Border Agency" to expedite passage back into the country without petty -fogging beurocracy likely to try the patience of the most stalwart returning "rough sleeper" and family. A phone number to someone with real information instead of a time-serving jobs-worth would also not go amiss.

    When this is all over there should be a complete clear-out of these hopeless Apparatchiks into some less demanding role.

    1. Intractable Potsherd
      Pint

      Graham ...

      ... have a beer on me!

  3. Robert Carnegie Silver badge

    The Met Office and others

    http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/corporate/pressoffice/2010/volcano.html

    says

    "The Met Office is the north-west European Volcanic Ash Advisory Centre with responsibility for issuing the Volcanic Ash Advisories for volcanoes erupting in this area in line with internationally agreed standards and processes. This means the Met Office’s role is to support NATS, CAA and other aviation authorities decision-making."

    Apparently the other main input into aviation authorities' decision-making is the rated tolerance of retail jet engines for volcanic ash in the atmosphere, which is, by them, zero. Fly through even a whiff of that stuff and you've lost your warranty. Well, "warranty" isn't quite the right concept, and it may be over-strict. But for an airline to fly a plane in conditions where the manufacturer's advice is "Don't fly the plane in these conditions" is, correctly, a dreadful liability.

    Up to now, keeping aeroplanes well away from the effects of volcanoes evidently hasn't been very difficult.

    I must say I was shocked though by one commentator's description of the failure scenario: "The engines stop working, the plane goes down and everyone dies." Surely that doesn't -always- happen?

    1. Smallbrainfield

      I wouldn't fancy my chances...

      ... on a 747 with no engines. Basically you'd be sitting in a large glider, with (I would imagine) a pretty steep descent angle to keep you from stalling.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      re: Surely that doesn't -always- happen?

      Usually if the engines flame-out they can be re-started - as the dust cloud tends to be pretty high there's plenty of air to play with as long as nothing gets in the way of the big glider with the worried pilot.

  4. SilverWave
    Alert

    Andrew Orlowski Comments and Ratings?

    Damn I actually like the article...

    TANJ

  5. Anonymous Coward
    WTF?

    Outside their remit

    The MET only has a remit by the ICAO to run the London VAAC and provide expected Ash distribution for the next 24hours. It is not responsible for sending monitoring gubbins into the sky.

    The reporting to the CAA and NATS can then use other information as they see fit - test flights, balloon instrument monitoring etc.

    1. Intractable Potsherd
      WTF?

      But surely ...

      ... the question must be "WHY is it not in their remit?" If they are expected to provide infomation in the form of forecasts, then they need the data from which to make the forecasts - or am I living on a different planet (again)?? If they don't have the ability to collect the relevant data then they are worse than useless, because it is just guesswork with a machine that goes "beep"!

  6. LinkOfHyrule
    Coat

    LIEdar not Lidar

    They should rename it if its basically a bit bollox.

    Mines the one covered in volcanic ash

  7. trox
    FAIL

    We like El Reg

    as long as they stay within competence boundaries. Weather forecasting or air traffic control apparently are outwith. Zero article zone, El Reg!

  8. nichomach
    Thumb Up

    @Robert Carnegie

    http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2010/04/19/340763/case-study-when-volcanic-ash-brought-down-a-747.html

    Worst case, all engines fail - oh, and you can't see where you're going, which MIGHT under the Top Gear over/understeer principle be considered a blessing... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EQWPumtDXk0

  9. trox
    FAIL

    We love El Reg

    as long as they talk about stuff they know. Thus not weather forecast and air traffic control.

    1. vic 4
      WTF?

      RE: We love El Reg

      @trox: They don't do air traffic control, they provide advise to them. And their short/mid term weather forecasts are pretty accurate, most people claim they aren't based on TV broadcasts where rain cloud/sun is put on top of a 100sq mile area and automatically assume the forecast is crpa because it did/didn't rain over their house. Try one of their localised/bespoke forecasts if you want accuracy.

      BTW, I don't work for the met office.

      1. Douglas Lowe
        Headmaster

        misunderstanding...

        vic 4, I don't think that El Reg (which was who trox was commenting on) advise air traffic control. Well, not on anything to do with weather forecasting anyway ;-)

  10. David Pollard
    IT Angle

    Vulture 1 + Balloons? How exactly?

    "Field testing from balloons ... would have filled the knowledge gap."

    So, we need to cover an area of about 4,000 miles square at, say, 200 mile intervals or better, sampling every few thousand feet up at six-hourly intervals. Even if there were some means to perform remote assessment, so that it wasn't necessary to collect the samples after descent and examine them under a microscope or whatever, at least half of the 400 field stations would have to be sea-based.

    Rather than the rant against the Met it might be nice to know a bit more about how LIDAR works and to have a few details of the software they and the other eight VAACs worldwide use to model pollution incidents and the sort of kit they run it on.

    1. Andrew Orlowski (Written by Reg staff)

      Re: Vulture 1 + Balloons? How exactly?

      We'll send them balloons. Maybe you can chip in.

      1. Douglas Lowe

        Fantastic

        How many? 20? 30? 100?

        Will you chip in for the optical particle counters required for each one too? And the ground crew (plus transport) to deploy, follow and retrieve each balloon? And the trained technicians to analyze the data within the 1-2 hour window in which the data will actually be useful?

        And then will you pay for their upkeep and training during the 20-30 years in between the extreme incidents during which their immediate deployment will be useful?

        1. Intractable Potsherd
          Thumb Down

          Douglas ...

          ... that is what our taxes should be paying for - readiness in the case of emergency. Nothing you have listed is useful only for this particular type of incident (pun not intended), and so should be part of the civil defence kit that should be maintained routinely. However, preparedness for eventualities is not "efficient", and so all civil defence stocks have been run down to nothing.

          1. Douglas Lowe

            I agree...

            ...it would be great to have the government provide more field work equipment for tracking this kind of event (though I think that we'd be better off having more aircraft, rather than more balloons). However the cost of providing this would be very high, and the equipment would not be as useful for other work if it was required to be readily deployable with 24 hours (our department conducts field experiments in Borneo, Chile, France, etc, as well as ship-based campaigns - none of which would be possible if the equipment and researchers were on call for UK work). If such a network was to be setup it would have to be funded in addition to current research work, it could not be funded by moving money from other projects.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Joke

      HW and SW assessment

      With their budget priority, the same as it was in 1986.*

      * Please refer to in-depth analysis and inventory reports of that time. Filed on microfiche in 1991, and conveniently stored in the bottom drawer of a locked file cabinet in the disued lavatory in the basement of the Official Government Records Repository - the closed tube station under the Thames.

      Thank you for your interest!

  11. Martin Lyne

    Because

    Let's say the composition wasn't as bad as suspected, and only 0.5% of jet aircraft/helicopters would crash.

    Is that still an acceptable amount? Compared to a few days cessation of business?

    I'd rather not have jets landing on my house, thanks very much. Safety first, as they say.

    Considering how vulnerable jet engines are to foreign objects, caution is the best option.

  12. Henry Wertz 1 Gold badge

    damage

    First off, I agree with everyone saying el reg is being too rough on the the Met here. Modelling is difficult business, and it's not their job to collect Europe-wide data. Expecting them to fly *planes* into the cloud is daft too given the potential problems. It's really not safe to be all "well, we're 50 miles outside the ash so it's fine" either, so it's not like the model being slightly off REALLY would have effected the airspace being closed.

    Second off, @Mountford D "A question of risk". I doubt the airlines would go for it even if they were permitted and got people to pay A LOT to get the f' out of the airports. To be honest, the risk of a crash may not even be that high. But, they probably would be putting like 10 years worth of wear on those engines in a single flight. No airline would go for that! There's no air filter on a jet engine, it'd be like driving your car through a sandstorm, or down a gravel road behind another car, with no air filter. The car probably won't die mid-trip, but I doubt any of you would do it!

    1. Andrew Orlowski (Written by Reg staff)

      Re: damage

      Running a marathon is difficult too, if you decide to tie your hands and feet together. You then have to hop 26 miles - it takes a lot longer.

      You have so comprehensively missed the point I am tempted to think you drove past it deliberately, HW.

    2. David Beck

      Hurricane Hunters?

      I'd agree with this post except the NOAA (and US Navy and Air Force) still fly real airplanes into real hurricanes to gather real info to validate the information provided by satellites, ground radars and models. I suspect these flights are not particularly "safe".

      I also suspect the Met Office felt it was doing so well with the climate change model (no controversy there) the ash dispersion model was a "doddle".

  13. Luther Blissett

    Hail to brimstone

    May I be the first to simulate welcome to our Nu Ashen Overlards?

  14. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Modern Gas Turbine Engines 101

    Many thanks to nichomach for posting actual primary sources (the Finnish pictures etc).

    Any gas turbine engine experts here? I'm not claiming to be one but I do know a few things. Here are a couple which just might be at least as relevant as Willie Walsh's opinions (and a few others round here too).

    (1) Turbine tip clearance

    To get best efficiency, modern gas turbine engines have tiny clearances between the (moving) end of the turbine blades and the (stationary) enclosure in which they rotate. Anyone know the kind of dimension we're talking about? I'm thinking it's of the same order of magnitude as the larger ash particles. So, what do readers think will happen to the blade ends and the enclosures, either immediately or later, when they've been rotating at (say) 10,000 rpm for a few hours in an enclosure containing something with similar effects to a sandblasting mixture? Hint: it won't be pleasant. Think about taking the lid off a modern hard drive, scattering a little talcum powder inside, and seeing if it still works reliably for long.

    (2) Single crystal turbine blades

    Modern gas turbine engines are miracles of engineering and science, with complex designs (including complex control systems) intended to cope with a variety of predicted conditions. Flying through the kind of volcanic ash which produces the effects shown on the Finnish photos is not one of those conditions. The turbine blades in many engines are manufactured from single crystals in order to allow them to resist the extremes of mechanical and thermal stress they routinely have to cope with. When they end up looking like the ones in the Finnish pictures, they are no longer single crystals and as such they are greatly weakened, and in due course will fail even under normal stress loads.

    Rgds

    A Engineer (not a metallurgist, but solid state physics was my thing once upon a time)

  15. Ugotta B. Kiddingme

    all these comments and no one's said it yet.

    Biggin Hill? Is that anywhere near Benny Hill?

    (Supply your own rimshot and Yakkety Sax)

  16. Graham Bartlett

    @Robert Carnegie

    No, they don't *always* fall out of the sky. There's the documented case in 1982 which the BBC wrote up. The 747 was at 36,000ft when all four engines died. By 12,000ft enough glass had cleared itself from the engines that they could restart - had the engines not restarted then, they would have had to ditch, bcos there was nowhere on land they could set down.

  17. John Smith 19 Gold badge
    WTF?

    Model not updated *since* 1986?

    Don't know if that is or is not correct. Pretty suspect if it is. The physics, mathematical techniques and AFAIK the number of sensors have *all* improved.

    Note 3 other facts.

    Procedures *do* exist to handle the simultaneous shutdown of all engines.

    Other parts of European airspace *have* re-opened, some of them undoubtedly flying through the UK sectors. If *nothing* happens on those flights the Met Office will look like it's crying wolf.

    A number of long duration "weather reconnaissance" drones exist which could run sampling missions. These vehicles are usually propeller driven and while not very fast could sample most of the airspace fairly quickly. Being uncrewed if anything did happen they would be expendable.

    1. Intractable Potsherd
      Thumb Up

      Thanks, John ...

      ... I was just going to mention UAVs myself.

  18. Anonymous Coward
    Alert

    Aviation sensors 101

    A Engineer here again.

    Some readers may be aware that aircraft use things called "Pitot tubes" to measure airspeed. Fwiw, airspeed is *not* the same speed as you'd get from asking a GPS how fast you're moving, because airspeed factors in the influence of the wind as well. This is an important difference if you want the aircraft to stay in the air.

    In June 2009 Air France flight 447 crashed into the Atlantic killing all 228 people on board. It is suspected that simultaneous identical faults on two of three Pitot tubes, leading to misleading numbers being reported, caused the aircraft's control systems to "do the right thing" based on the information received, with disastrous results.

    It is entirely plausible (indeed, predictable) that Pitot tubes will be adversely affected by atmospheric ash, either immediately or as time goes by.

    There are probably other aircraft systems and sensors that can be affected by ash too. Engine and airspeed sensors just happen to be quite important to safety. BA and BAA revenue isn't really quite so safety critical.

    1. Ralphe Neill

      Air/ground speed 101

      "Fwiw, airspeed is *not* the same speed as you'd get from asking a GPS how fast you're moving, because airspeed factors in the influence of the wind as well. This is an important difference if you want the aircraft to stay in the air."

      Errr ... no ... the figure derived from GPS is the groundspeed and THAT factors in the wind. The airspeed is the speed of the aircraft through the air ... it matters not if the air is moving.

      Just a bit of pedantry ...

      1. Anonymous Coward
        FAIL

        @Ralphe Neill

        You have just commented to change a post by providing incorrect information to a correct post.

  19. Jón Frímann Jónsson
    Badgers

    Mean ash cloud

    The ash cloud from Eyjafjallajökull was quite mean and big few days ago. The eruption now is about four times bigger then last eruption in 2004 in Grímsfjalli.

    Ash also makes a jet engine into a scrap engine in no time. Things will get better when Eyjafjallajökull has stopped erupted. But until then, hope for the best.

  20. John Savard

    Mystic Met

    Non-UK readers might miss the reference to "Mystic Meg", who does an astrology column for a British newspaper.

    There is some concern that Eyjafjallajökull's big brother Katla might be next, and I've spotted at least one web page which blames global warming for this: apparently, the heavy glaciers on top of the Icelandic volcanoes squeeze the rock down, holding the lava in, at least for a few extra years between eruptions.

    While Eyjafjallajökull being smaller than Pinatubo, which bought us only a decade's respite from global warming, doesn't affect that issue... Fox News apparently thinks that Katla might plunge us all into a new ice age. And here I thought it was ocean salinity turning off the Gulf Stream was how global warming was supposed to start an ice age.

    1. Hud Dunlap
      Megaphone

      @John Savard

      I haven't seen the FOX news item but Carl Sagan talked years ago about Nuclear Winter.

      How many Nuclear warheads is the eruption equivalent to?

      www.cooperativeindividualism.org/sagan_nuclear_winter.html

  21. Anonymous Coward
    Thumb Up

    ex-Rolls Royce research director speaks

    A Engineer again again.

    But this time you don't have to listen to me. Instead, listen to Professor Alan Turner of Sussex University, former head of a relevant Rolls Royce research organisation, someone who might just know something about the subject.

    "Alan Turner is a Professor Emeritus in the School of Engineering and Design at the University of Sussex, UK, and Founding Director of the Rolls Royce Aero-Thermal Systems Research Centre. For over 25 years, his main activity was aero-thermal systems research on large turbofans (Trent) and military engines at Rolls Royce plc"

    Large turbofans (such as Trent) are what power all modern long range civil aircraft.

    Interviewed on BBC R5 Live, starting at about 2h 7m in.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00s1tqg/5_live_Drive_19_04_2010/

    Turner or Walsh. Take your pick.

  22. Anonymous Coward
    Troll

    Why do you all hate science?

    You volcanic ash cloud deniers are all the same. Trying to tell me that the sky is blue, when my model clearly says that it is lollipops. Next you'll be telling me that bumblebees can fly.

  23. Mr Templedene

    Volcanic Ash

    Doesn't show up on aircraft's weather radar (or inded the met offices radar) and is not visible at low concentration levels, but those low levels are enough to cause serious problems.

    http://www.newscientist.com/blogs/shortsharpscience/2010/04/paul-marks-technology-correspo.html

    Yes BA flight 9 survived the experience, but FFS having a go at the MET for using models to estimate where the ash (which doesn't show up on radar) will be is a bit childish really.

    And for those who have said fly the planes lower, there are a host of problems, not even considering the extra fuel burn

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/8632583.stm

    But of course reasonable scientific explanations must be ignored because we must put profit before safety.

    Really Andrew, you disappoint me with this somewhat childish swipe at the met office.

  24. Dodgy Geezer Silver badge
    WTF?

    Why are there so many idiots around?

    There is patently not a problem.

    Yet people are queuing up to make 'authoritative' claims that there is. It's beginning to sound exactly like Global Warming....

    What is it about various sections of humanity that makes them want to pretend the end of the world is coming? And why do the press keep reporting this? ?????

  25. John Smith 19 Gold badge
    Boffin

    Listened to Dr Turner

    Side note. Single crystal turbine blades are *very* expensive and AFAIK remain confined to military gas turbines. Unlike Silicon they are not grown from a seed crystal. Gas turbine blade clearance is on the order of a 4-8 mils (c100-200 micrometres, which is tight but I think the ash is *smaller* than this)

    Dr Turner makes a more general point. All modern aircraft turbine blades are *cooled*. They use "300micrometre holes in about 6 rows" The sand melts and blocks the holes. This mechanism is what allows blades to operate at (IIRC) 80-90% of their melting point. Disrupting this airflow is therefor a Very Bad Thing.

    Dr Turner criticized airline test flights as failing to test for loss of power after landing and borescoping the engine for damage. Damage would also show up as worse fuel consumption which should be apparent given the high resoltuion of engine management data recording. Given the revenue losses they are having airlines ideas of "Acceptable risk" might well be a lot different to what the general public's is.

    Dr Turner makes a lot of sense but I think he may underestimate the ability of an engine to recover if shut down at altitude and allowed to glide to lower (12000 ft) levels to crack the glass off. He did point out that airlines in the Middle East do fly into dust storms at 30 000 ft so in this area its effects on engine life are quantifiable. At the end of the day an airline has to be in business to be worrying the overhaul costs on its engines. For some not flying *now* might be the last straw.

  26. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Trent 500 (introduced 2002) uses single crystal blades

    http://www.rolls-royce.com/civil/products/largeaircraft/trent_500/ - don't know if this was the first, so there may be earlier.

    It's not specifically the single crystal stuff that matters, it's just that these things are designed to work safely and efficiently in specific circumstances which are well explored, and for efficiency reasons they work far closer to the margins of safety than folk outside the industry may appreciate. Move outside the standard operating envelope for any length of time, and you are entering unexplored (but not unpredictable) territory. Here be dragons.

    1. John Smith 19 Gold badge
      Thumb Up

      AC@13:28

      I stand corrected.

      I commented that blade cooling lets turbine blades operate *astonishingly* close to their melting points. Knocking that system out puts the engines under a *lot* of additional stress.

      I guess the biggest database on this subject are aircraft flying through sandstorms in the Middle East.

      In electronics it is sometimes called the "Safe Operating Area."

  27. Andy 40

    climate change anyone?

    Hmm, so the met office is making headline grabbing doom and gloom predictions based on dodgy models and insufficient data,and not checking their predictions against the real world? Sounds familier...

  28. Anonymous Coward
    Boffin

    Rolls Royce CEO on "single crystal"

    Here are some words from Rolls Royce on the subject of single crystal turbine blades. These particular words are from Sir John Rose, Rolls Royce plc Chief Executive, in a 2009 speech to the Royal Society of Arts on "creating a high value economy". Not totally definitive, and doesn't illustrate the history of single crystal going back several years, but will it do for now? It's the best I could quickly find.

    <begin quote>

    Let me illustrate the point by taking just one small component. This is a ‘single crystal turbine blade’.

    • It’s one of 66 in a Trent 1000 engine.

    • It is grown in a vacuum furnace from a single crystal of a proprietary Rolls-Royce alloy.

    • It operates in the high-pressure turbine, where gas temperatures are up to 1,600 degrees centigrade – that’s around 200 degrees centigrade higher than the melting point of the alloy from which it is made.

    • It delivers the same horse power as a Formula One racing car.

    • Because of the extraordinary precision required to ensure maximum efficiency and safety, the blade’s dimensions cannot be ‘out’ by more than 10 microns – that’s 10 times less than the width of a human hair.

    • Yet, for all its complexity, it travels seven million miles between major services.

    • A component of this complexity demands the close involvement of an enormous number of parties outside Rolls-Royce: in this case 37 universities and research centres around the world, 35 large companies and 34 small or medium sized companies.

    • Unsurprisingly, it is not cheap. In fact, this small component costs around $10,000, the equivalent of over $1,000 an ounce.

    <end quote>

    Rose goes on to mention the Electronic Engine Control (aka FADEC), whose programming allows the engine to operate close to the limits of **normal operating parameters**. What he does't say is that ash ingestion is not within those "normal operating parameters" and the EEC's programming almost certainly is not intended to cater for those circumstances.

    The traditionally engineered safety margins which might have been expected in the days of analogue controls have been sacrificed in recent years and in many industries in the interests of better economy. Consequently there is now less "wiggle room" for safety when exceptional circumstances do occasionally arise.

    Full text (worth a look) at http://www.thersa.org/__data/assets/pdf_file/0007/249154/Rose-RSA-speech-10-November-2009.pdf

  29. Anonymous Coward
    Flame

    Single crystal blades, operating at temperatures ABOVE their melting point

    The single crystal turbine blades are operating in gases whose temperature is above the blade's melting point, hence the critical importance of the cooling vents mentioned above by various folk.

    Don't take my word for it, read the words of John Rose, CEO of Rolls Royce plc, addressing the Royal Society of Arts on "creating a high value economy" (it's worth a read anyway).

    For the "single crystal blade" stuff start at page 4 of

    http://www.thersa.org/__data/assets/pdf_file/0007/249154/Rose-RSA-speech-10-November-2009.pdf

  30. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    @John Smith 1:13 (am!)

    "In electronics it is sometimes called the "Safe Operating Area."

    Indeed. And if you look at a chip datasheet, it will typically say that permanent damage may result from operation outside the safe operating area. It won't say "if you go 0.1v outside the safe Vcc for 5 minutes you'll probably be OK". But that's what the airlines want the engine companies to say, except in this case the airlines won't actually be able to say how far outside the "safe operating area" (in this case, no ash) their aircraft have been or will be going.

    Apologies for the duplication of the single crystal stuff. One of them got lost in the post, so I tryped it again (but shorter) and then it re-appeared. IP packets have this problem too, sometimes.

  31. proto-robbie
    Headmaster

    Per ardua ad astra

    Telescopes, starlight and science might provide all that's needed for informed decision making here.

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