An advert for an IT professional "preferably of Indian origin" is being investigated after complaints were made to the Equalities and Human Rights Commission. The ad, placed on jobsite.co.uk, said: "Minimum six years of experience in IT ... The person should be a UK citizen with security clearance from the UK Government. …
Is all racism negative?
Is all racism negative? You decide:
New Museum of Swedish Doorknobs and Beauty seeking bright, young Swedish woman to polish our knobs. Must be blond so as to avoid clashing with our decor. Should have huge... tracts of land.
So what is the problem here?
Is this a government agency hiring? No. This the private sector.
Then people should shut the fuck up.
If these dudes need Indians, then so be it. It's more efficient to be up front than to have candidates coming in which you then have to reject because they are not between 4'12'' and 4'13'' tall or something.
...i totally agree with.
- i pay the wages, i can pay who i want and if i reject a better qualified person as a result its my own stupid fault for hurting my business.
however legality has nothing to do ethics, morality or common-sense, only with (past and present) government policy and if the advert had said "no indians" or "whites only" they'd have been run out of town.
i think sexism is almost officially defined as "bias against women", so you can't actually be legally sexist by discriminating against men.
i can only assume that, given this and the BNP having to change their constitution (it would be so good if every "ethnic minority person" in the country tried to join) but with the Black Police Officers association (an explicitly racially exclusive name/organisation, no?) being allowed to continue existing, that the same sort of 1 way traffic must apply for race.
the joys of being white male - but thats a topic for the BBCs "Have Your Say" not mr. register's posting page :-)
Hmm.... 7 downvotes to my post
Yep, the belief in the Nanny State For Everyone and Justice For All is alive and well.
Black Police Officers association not racist
Resticting membership of an association is different to restricting employment. Associations are no more than clubs, which to my mind, should always be allowed to be run as "private clubs" rather like I run a "private home".
If I decide not to let someone into my home because of his race, then my racism (and stupidity etc.) are irrelevent because it is *my* home and he/she has no right to demand an explanation. (If I shout racist crap at him from my doorway then that might be different.) The right to decide who you let in to your home/club/orgy/etc. is called freedom of association.
Employment is a different matter, although this is purely because the law has (rightly, IMHO) decided that freedom of association does not extend to staffing of a business be it public or private.
@This day and age...?
"In a previous day and age, there would have been some sort of "costumer service" between the advertiser and the press and they might have queried the wording."
I think you may have overstated your point....
Happens here - but only recently.
Looking at jobs as a cleaner. Office joint. Part-time work. Evening work, when everyone's fuc*ked off home. High-tech international company. For the client, English is the working language.
Ad. reads "Excellent Finnish essential (in Finnish)". Basically, they don't want some immigrant/refugee mopping the floor. They want a native.
Even if a Somalian refugee's learnt near-perfect Finnish, my Somalian mate who has, tells me there's still some excuse to trip him up, like a colloquialism he doesn't know. "What is a 'mäyräkoira'?" "I don't know" "It's a twelve-pack of beer. Sorry. Next" "But I'm Muslim, how would I know???" "NEXT!!!"
Same with McD's rival, Hesburger. Because of tourists/businessmen, every member of staff has to have English. But, to mop the floor, I need "Excellent Finnish skills"
Why doesn't your Somali mate work as a translator?
But no, gotta do floors in finnish.
Probably placed by someone in India
Look at the classified jobs ads in the "Times of India" sometime. A few weeks ago I saw an Indian law firm advertising for a legal assistant, the ad stated "Persons aged over 35 need not apply." . Rules must be different there.
(Then read the matrimonial classifieds. It's a *very* different culture... )
...it's because they are tired of hiring cowboys...
@Nothing new here #
"There is a number of...
You mean 'are a number'
" that continuously put...."
You mean 'continually put...'
Questionable, that one. "There is a number of people" sounds a little odd, it's true, yet "there are a number of people" is clumsy. My question would be: "what number are that?"
"There is a group of people over there" is right. There are several people in that group, but there is only one group and that group "is", not that group "are".
...to our English jobs.
Oops, sorry, I may be being racist here!
I think you mean, "all our English jobs to Tata"
... as in cheerio, tara, bye etc.
You're not really English!
"Tata... ... as in cheerio, tara, bye etc."
An English person would have laughed at the Anonymous Coward's **joke**.
happens all the time
Im indian and i know friends in HR who recruit only indians..
At the same time there are others who do not even look at a CV if it belongs to someone with a foreign sounding name.
it happens all the time.
and i bet everyone here knows this
The only upside here is if you know they are going to reject you if you are not Indian, you won't waste your time applying. Similary, if you are Indian, you might not waste your time if you know an employer is going to reject you because you aren't Anglo Saxon.
Jobserve and Jobsite are like eBay - placing all responsibility on the advertiser.
We need to audit these companies on the number of applications and their ethnic origin versus the ethnicity of the successful applicants. No positive descrimination, just need to penalise companies (e.g. by trebling their corporation tax) who vary from acceptable statistical variation based on UK population figures. OK, there may be flaws (e.g. in comparing areas like outer London to the Lake District).
India is such a big place I can't see the point in requiring an Indian...Sikhs may dislike Hindus who may dislike Moslems and then you have the whole caste system... being "Indian" does not ensure harmonious working. Of course, if you're on a work visa, you might be willing to work on contract for £150 a day versus £300 - at least until you've been here 4 years when you get permanent residency.
Stalin tried that
Stalin tried that with the USSR university admission policy (and it remained of years after he died).
The result was that let's say in maths or physics the passing grade for chuckcha (the russian equivalent of the innuit) was under 3 out of 5, for jews was 5 out 5 while for the general population in the same discipline it was around 4-4.5 out of 5.
Do we like it or not the population is inherently stratified. If you apply ethnicity/race statistics to any recruitment/admission policy the result will be positively discriminating against jews and a couple of other affluent ethnicities. Besides it being a bad idea (imagine denying Einstein a place in a Uni just because his grades are too high for a jew) it is going to happen only on a very cold day in hell.
@ Paul 4 "Yep"
**Indians are well KNOW for using TOTALY 100% perfect written English. UNFORTUNATLY to most English speakers is comes ACCROSS very odd, because they use the type of English that we would have used 100 years ago.**
"know" should have been KNOWN, "totaly" = TOTALLY, "unfortunatly" = UNFORTUNATELY, "accross" = ACROSS
As your message isn't 100% perfect written English, we can safely assume that you are not Indian then lol.
We are all equal....
but some are more equal than others.
It used to be called "positive discrimination", but that still included the bad "D" word, so the pigs decided to call it "affirmative action", and all of the other animals were happy.
Big Brother, because there isn't a Napoleon icon....
I keep wondering if there is a equivalent to Godwin's Law, where any any online discussion about the British Labour Government will eventually lead to someone mentioning Orwell.
daily mail pah!
Not surprised this story is coming from the ultra racist daily mail. They'll print anything that makes white people look downtrodden. They wouldn't have printed anything if the job ad was for asking for a woman.
..oh wait a minute, yes they would cos they hate women as well as black people.
Are a racist trollop.
Now sue me.
what is "Indian"?
Is "Indian" refering to an race/ethnicity or to "having citizenship of the country of India" (very possible for a caucasian to have)
Don't have a clue what the legal definition is, but...
- its race/ethnicity then surely this must be illegal?
- if its geographical/political then they wouild seem to be treating all EU citizens equally (thats the important bit) as NONE of them can apply and they are probably okay?
Does the capital letter ("Indian" as opposed to "indian") make it a geographical/political?
Job advert in dubai
Remember a job advert I saw in Dubai. It was for PA to the director. Started out as "must be Filipino, female and under 25".
Just gone to have a look to see if I was remembering correctly and found this
So that would be a transexual employee, right? Females from the Philippines are 'Filipina', the fellas 'Filipino'.
It's wrong and it's illegal, why are we debating it?
It may be actually useful in a workplace to have Indian language and cultural knowledge. Spelling of common names, say. Well, Cliff Richard was born in India (as Hari Webb). So was Spike Milligan. I'm not sure who I want running IT, but we've just had half a day downtime because something in Glasgow broke and there are worse things than a sing-along. I'm guessing that they had in mind someone more Indian than that, though. (Jai Ho!)
Of course it's quite likely that someone who has an Indian background like you is from the people that hate your people back home... they didn't think it through.
...something in Glasgow broke...
It was one of Spike's cardboard & leather hard drives! Couldn't get the wood, you know.
God I miss him.
I was going to comment on this...
But in the end couldn't be bothered as the whole equal opps, offshoring, onshoring debate is broken.
Yeah yeah, it's awful this has happened but get over it ok.
Sorry but you have it all wrong.
This is how you sort out Quebec.
First build a big water tight wall around the province, make sure no one escapes and shoot those that try.
Then flood the entire place.
Once all Quebecers have sufiiciently drowned, send in the Armed Forces to remove the bodies.
Next take down wall and build one big ass shopping mall. Multiple stories with theme parks and cinemas.
Now open it and let the Yanks come in and spend money.
.. I've seen several on jobserve which could have been taken as a bit dodgy:
"Applicants must be local, applicants who are not local will not be considered"
"Applicants must hold a first class degree from a good university".
are two that spring to mind.
Sounds like this is an Indian BPO/outsourcing firm...
So its tough to say that they need someone who can deal with staff in India or if they are looking for some work visa holder that they can push around on salary until his visa runs out.
Sure, it's illegal, but if they're going to discriminate anyways, the fact might as well be known up front.
The lesson this company will learn will be to either hide their intentions all together, or to squirm around the discrimination laws by requiring a skill only indians could have. Aka "10 years experience with the indian language".
Must have thought he was in the Middle East or India, where such advertising is not only legal, but common.
You should have seen it coming...
I am not even going to explain why....suffice to say that colonization had to have a price. Is anyone surprised? Things are upside down in UK.
"act improperly in any shape"?
I admit to not being a native speaker, but that just sounds like your shape does not make a difference to whether you acted improperly.
"Preferably of Indian descent" is just another way of saying "Prefer someone we can underpay that won't complain about it"
...I'm Navajo. Where do I apply?
To call this racism is a joke and an offence to what is really classed as racism. They might have had a good reason for their decision. PC has gone too far in this country and is turning everyone into aplogetic wimps.
They are all called Sandeep or Amit and they all work at Dell.....so it must be a requirement for the job.
Multi page comments
What raving lunatic at the Reg thought it would be a good idea to make the comments link take me to the last page of the comments and not the 1st page?!?!?! When I want to read the comments on an article I want to start at the top of the thread, not somewhere in the middle.!
Fix it please el Reg.
(as to the article - who gives a toss if they want to employ foreigners, perhaps they feel Indians have a better work ethic?)
If they'd just listed a few Indian dialects and said "must be a fluent speaker in one of ..." nobody could/would've batted an eyelid. I work for a large company where the only black people employed have British-sounding names, proving someone else's point about racist CV-filtering
It is racist...
And next time they will just ensure that they write, 'preferably able to speak Hindi, Urdu and English', which pretty much excludes white people on all three counts, but will be perfectly legal.
There are lots of jobs advertised like this, here's two from today:
Small hiccup: clearance problems
If this is a job requiring clearance, the person should be living in the UK or it will cost more (if they decide to bother at all in the first place). Sounds like a conflict to me..
Personally I think this kind of advert should be legal. I do not condone the advert, however I think many innocent companies/employers are prosecuted for racial discrimination and loose because it is simply impossible to prove a negative. It is a law of good intentions with unexpected consequences.
So, why does anyone care?
Maybe it was a CV honeypot.
You would be hard pushed to find......
An Indian National with Security Clearance in the UK who hadn't lived here for some time, six years, continuously, I believe.
But I could be wrong.
"David Davies, said the ad was clearly racist "
hang on mate we have courts to decide that stuff
if you feel strongly enough file a case
otherwise shut up
and next time don't call the papers first
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