back to article Adobe sounds off on iPad's Flash slap

Apple claims that its just-announced iPad "lets you see web pages as they were meant to be seen," but Adobe's group manager for Flash marketing isn't buying it. "If I want to use the iPad to connect to Disney, Hulu, Miniclip, Farmville, ESPN, Kongregate, or JibJab - not to mention the millions of other sites on the web - I'll be …

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Big Brother

iPhone with extra screen space!

Can i point out, that this article is probably highly irrelevant. Flash came to the iPhone eventually, and so will this. I think apple do these stupid things to spark such reactions. Its still a useless paving slab, but all the same, flash WILL come to it. Why shouldnt it?

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Big Brother

Remember ...

when Apple discontinued the Floppy Drive?

World will end.

Apple will crumble.

Bill Gates will save the World.

Flash ... Ahahh. (for film fans)

Seen one on a computer lately?

Flash is crap. Adobe know it. Stevie knows it. Apple know it. Millions of victims know it.

Apple are right ... again.

(I'm not sure about the iPad yet, though. I don't think it will go the way of Newton or the Cube but it does need a bit more Wow!)

As to Adolf ... he chooses the HP Slate ... he killed himself. Seems about right!

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Silver badge
Linux

64 bit?

Happily watching Hitler on my Ubuntu 9.10 laptop with 64bit Flash.

As for iPads, WTF are those good for?

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FAIL

No Flash?

Good. Flash blows. Unless you are running a massively powerful CPU, Flash just rapes your system. Non-Windows support is even worse. Flash also bloats web pages with stupid ads and is why the various blockers are so popular. I hope the more-money-than-sense fashionistas who will buy this thing cause web sites designers to drop Flash.

Of course, they are using Flash in the first place to try and avoid all the browser quirks because the dominant player (MS) can't be arsed to follow the standards. The shining-white hope (Google) recently shoved two fingers to the world as well by adopting H264 for the HTML5 <video> element. That just blows too.

OGG Theora may not be perfect, but you can implement it for nowt. You can record on it for nowt. You can share it for nowt. No patents to worry about either. How hard is it to make the right choice? Just how fucking hard?

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WTF?

Err

"Unless you are running a massively powerful CPU, Flash just rapes your system"

My N900 'only' has a tiny ARM CPU, and manages Flash fine. Flash 10.1 is going to have a ton of mobile-optimised versions, and most *mobile phones* will hardware accelerate it.

But the iPoo can't ? Don't you believe it, it's *wont*.

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OGG Theora ?

While I agree that HTML5 + SVG may well be the future for a lot of things not supporting Flash or Silverlight short term is going to impact the user experience for many ... though it might result in Farmville etc migrating

Right now though OGG Theora, while it has some advantages, just doesn't hold up on a quality bar - especially for live video - in the same way that Flash and now the Silverlight Smooth Streaming (http://SmoothHD.com for some great samples)

If the Ogg folks can get some more work on their platform to provide adaptive chunked http streaming for Live and On-Demand, and some decent hardware and software encoder solutions then dropping plug-ins won't be quite such a step backward

Until then for a large part of the web Silverlight and Flash will continue to be important

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Flash is...

lame... like windows.

But I'll be honest, I have to use windows daily. I am assuming some people find flash unfortunately just as necessary.

Until something displaces it, it's here innit?

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Thumb Down

Flash blows.

It's sort of irrelevant whether Flash blows or not - the fact is the websites Joe Public uses are Flash-heavy in a lot of cases, for better or worse.

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Megaphone

More Baaaahd Apple products for Apple Sheep

So now the iPad is here and the specs are not anything to talk about, the lack of Flash for a large screen device is hillarious. True to Apple's recent hardware, it will be an overpriced lock-you-in-to their world device and once again the technologically illiterate will be bowing down and preying to MrJobs for enlightening their world with more apple godness.

Baaaahhh! - If you baaaaah-y this then you 're an apple sheep. Once again Apple prove they are only interested in hooking into your pocket with medioca products.

iForOneWontBuyAnythingAppleEverBecauseTheirProductsReallyAreAverageAtBest.

For all the anti-flash twaddle, Flash is a damm good platform, yes it can also provide advertisers with a way to visually spam you with their ads but there are countless millions of sites and games based on flash that provide intefaces and entertainment that couldn't be done otherwise.

If you want to go back to 1985 and have HTML and crusty animated gifs, thats fine, but for the majority of us, Flash does more positive than bad. I suggest you give up your adsl and 3g phones and get yourself a nice 14.4k modem you dinosaurs.

The iPhone WAS pretty good but it is old news and even the new generation iPhones are pretty poor "hardware wise" compared to other devices. The ONLY 2 good things about them are the apps and the 3G. They can't even supply a decent screen resolution or basic multitasking.

I have lost track of the countless sheep who think as a brand Apple are superior, based on the blind advertising hype, and indulge in purchasing their products based on this alone.

This is Apple who use intel based hardware (PC's) as their computer platform because their own hardware was OK at best but rubbish compared to PC's so they ditched theirs.

This is Apple who tried to cornere the market with a medioca phone that really only has 2 good features, the rest is average compared to the rest of the market.

This is Apple who force DRM on you, remember when you couldn't back up your iTunes purchases and if you lost your device you lost your money?

This is apple who don't like to support open-standards because there is nothing in it for them, or there is no way for them and their partners to squeeze you for every penny you have, which you quite rightly should lose (because you were dumb enough to buy their products in the first place!).

Oh yer, this is Apple who according to them invented digital music (MP3 etc)..... I had my first MP3 player YEARS before there ever was Apple and their iTunes/DRM. I had a lovely device that you could simply drag/drop your music files onto the device and off you go... Apple's solution to this is to lock you into a format that scams you for your money and locks you into their hardware and their rubbish iTunes software.

I don't subscribe to being dictated to, Apple don't give you choices, once they have you hooked they dictate what you can and can't do.

Finally, their laptops and desktop (PC's, yes PC's, don't argue they are not PC's - they ARE based on X86 hardware and they are PC's running OSX), are built well and are pretty good machines but I can build better PC's for cheaper and there are some pretty amazing non Mac laptops around for the same silly price, so they are so-so no better no worse. But definately not worth the "Mac is better than PC" argument being that they only represent 4% of global sales.

Great to sit in Starbucks and pretent you are writing a novel, but what a price to pay for a pitiful pose.

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This post has been deleted by a moderator

Troll

Why not take some time off...

...sucking Steve Jobs' todger and learn to spell before calling others illiterate.

"illiterate pre-pubecent Windows fanboy"

CLUE: There's an 's' missing somewhere

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Go

Not sure ...

... either of your posts are 100% factually correct - but sure found the fanboi fight funny to read. In terms of who won though ... I would assume the descent into expletives from the Apple corner indicated somebody a lot younger in terms of 'literacy years' than the un-fanboi one ... so you lose!

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Amen.

Apple is a company just out to make $$$ like everyone else.

They do not always have the best despite the spin. They are a fallible company. They do stupid things too.

Do you remember pre-OSX times? Arguably, windows at the time, 95 and above was arguably more stable with more protection and pre-emption which MacOS lacked completely.

For YEARS apple ran MacOS which was shit when they needn't have had to. On possibly the FINEST 32 bit chip in production at the time (which they DITCHED eventually when x86 caught up and overtook it, without allowing it due time for maturation, I think to allow better vm'ing of windows, despite what they might say otherwise).

AppleTards do not like to be reminded about this but this is true.

So, wake up AppleTards, by all means, buy Apple, some of their products are probably worth it, some aren't (ie iMacs), but don't be blind. They are no more indifferent (evil) than M$ or what have you.

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Alert

Sounds like a very POSITIVE feature to me

As every firefox+noflash user knows, most web pages look a LOT more user friendly without the unnecessary annoyances such as flash.

99% of web pages will be IMPROVED by dropping the flash. And if it forces a few idiot web designers to check that their site remains fully usable on a noflash reader, that will be a very POSITIVE improvement for everybody, not just iPad users.

Lets hope they also bring out a NOSCRIPT version. There are far too many sites using scripts unnecessarily. Javascript is never necessary for a search form, or in links. Just code the form properly so that scripts aren't necessary.

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Thumb Up

Hurray! Flash dies!

At last we can say goodbye to Flash, along with animated GIFs and inverse video text.

It sucked, and now it's dead.

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FAIL

Who Needs it

Tell us, Mr. Ludwig, exactly what all those sites use Flash for that is a) actually needed and b) can't be done with HTML and CSS.

Flash was a product of it's time and filled a niche, and the internet is moving on. Those sites he lists would be best served removing it altogether.

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Silver badge

www.fantasticcontraption.com

...and others. Please try implementing the above using only HTML4 or XHTML 1.0 Strict, CSS and Javascript.

I look forward to requiring a Cray supercomputer to run the thing.

Sure, you can do a lot more with DHTML now than you could do, but until HTML5, SVG and all the rest of it become standards supported by Internet Explorer, silly web games will require Flash.

Fortunately, Silverlight doesn't seem to have caught on, at least.

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Bronze badge
Boffin

FLASH != WEB

Flash is not a proper open standard, so why should Apple put their money into supporting it?

Safari is one of the most forward-looking browsers around, and supports almost all of the good things that flash can do in W3C native code: HTML, JS and CSS

There is no real need for more: the only thing worse for web-standards than Flash is Silverlight, and I don't hear much complaint about that being missing from the iPad, iPhone and iTouch.

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Flame

Hope this kills Flash

Title says it all really. I don't like Flash.

There is nothing wrong with the technology itself (except all the bugs, holes and processor requirement), but I HATE the way people use it. I was once forced to use a supplier's website that was one single flash app. You had to wait for the whole thing to load, and then every single link click gave you an animation before the next page loaded.

I hope Flash stays off the iWhatever for ever. I hope that companies hammer web page "designers" over their insistance to build the entire website in dreamweaver, and that webpages start to be web pages again.

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Grenade

Aaargh - commentard dissonance

On the one hand, I hate Flash. On the other hand, I hate Apple.

I'd love lack of Flash support to slow the relentless rise of Apple's locked-down products. But I'd love the popularity of Apple's products to hasten the demise of Flash and the adoption of web standards.

Which side am I supposed to be on, goddammit?

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There's only one way to find out...

Fiiiight!

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Anonymous Coward

Nokia has flash, but its not real flash

S60 phones can use a mobile flash (v2), but most sites I've tried doesn't like the baby brother of flash.

I've heard they will fix it soon, but not holding my breath.

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Thumb Up

Quote of the year

"AND IT SOUNDS LIKE A F**KING TAMPON!"

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Gates Halo

RE: RE: tired memes? # ↑

That my post disappointed you does nothing but turn me on.

http://www.bing.com/search?q=oi+scamps+get+on+i+need+to+talk+to+you+about+stu&src=IE-SearchBox&Form=IE8SRC

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Alert

Flash both sux and blows

In the over 10 years we've been creating marketing sites for businesses, we have never delivered a Flash 'enhanced' website. We simply don't recommend it. Period.

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Black Helicopters

Adobe censoring blog comments

Whilst there appears to be some negative comments on the Adobe Flash blog I suspect a large number of posts have not been displayed. I posted as soon as the blog entry went up and my comments do not appear, neither do those of a friend of mine. I wouldn't be surprised if Adobe are taken aback somewhat by the amount of negative feedback they're receiving about this issue.

If Firefox cave in, or are granted a license for H264 in their browser (and subsequent open source offshoots) then it's all over, everyone will dump Flash for playing back movies. It's overkill for movie playback and is overly resource hungry (and crashy).

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Pint

Poor flash

Let's be honest, Flash is dead in the water unless it can come up with some new application for itself. YouTube was its saviour, YouTube will kill it. HTML5 is putting paid to the need for Flash. It's Star Wars, Luke killing Darth, all over again.

This time next year, Flash will just be something you clean the bathroom with.

It's true.

You know it's true.

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Anonymous Coward

Feature - not a bug

"The iPad doesn't support Flash"

This is a good thing. Flash is an insecure exploit laden bad idea.

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Adobe complains about 'closed systems'?

>Echoing other complaints about Apple's predilection for closed systems, Luwig noted…

Wait, Adobe is THE original closed system company from Postscript to Flash. Kind of the pot calling the kettle black.

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Bronze badge
FAIL

Flash is the Past

Macromedia Flash was terrific. Adobe Flash sucks bytes.

Look, it's easy to see where Apple is coming from. Apple wants a reliable user experience that is as bug-free as possible. And since Adobe took over Flash, Flash has been buggy. I had one website that sold online Flash tutorials that stopped working when Adobe introduced Flash 10. Six weeks of working seven days a week couldn't get it running again and I lost all that revenue.

Flash under Adobe allows for sloppy Flash apps that eat your CPU and memory with the ferocity of a starving lion.

Apple obviously didn't want the iPad to be blamed for Adobe's failures so they figured that it's safer to exclude Flash than deal with the bugs.

But never fear - according to some articles I've read, if the website being visited is running IIS Media Services, it can stream Microsoft Silverlight video to the iPad! Oops, Adobe!

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"lets you see web pages as they were meant to be seen"

I tend to agree. Flash certainly has its uses, just a pity that most of the time those aren't the uses it gets put to.

Sites done entirely in flash and sites strewn with annoying CPU crunching bandwidth sucking flash-based ads make me want to vomit then drop my pants and crap on my own vomit. Or run flashblock, which is significantly easier albeit not quite as satisfying.

Somehow though I doubt the iPad will do much to reduce Flash abuse.

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FAIL

Flash and it's uses

I agree with this. Seems that many sites have stopped offering a "HTML only" version of their sites. I tried visiting American Greetings' Kidzone website on my cellphone the other day. The darn thing instead redirected me to a page telling me I need flash, blablabla. Disney, Nickelodeon and tons of other sites do the same. The lack of flash support on my device meant I had to go looking for a way to get flash onto the device since Adobe doesn't offer Flash as a free download for Windows Mobile.

Maybe HTML5 should make it a specification that all websites with embedded contents should have a "HTML only" version of the site offered as well. Since using flash locks out mobile users.

Fail to the web designers who designed the abovementioned sites. A "HTML only" option should be an necessity, not a luxury.

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Joke

Actually ...

Apple expect to add Flash to the iPad within the next 5 years - they're just waiting for Adobe Technical Support to respond to a query.

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Jobs Horns

HTML5 is a looong way off...

Ask yourself what the percentage of browsers in the World can render HTML5.

Then ask yourself how many people are still running IE6 which came out 8 years ago.

Then tell yourself HTML5 will not be viable for another 8-10 years.

Sorry - that's the way "Open Standards" work. You'll have to deal with that horrible, mean 'ol Flash for many years to come.

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Jobs Horns

Greed, Greed, Greed

Don't think for a second that lack of flash has anything to do with html5 idealism, or security. Apple is not in a business of making devices which are designed with consumers best interest at heart. You are foolish to think otherwise. Ipad is meant for you to to buy more of THEIR shit; apps, books, video, music, TV. Why would they want you to have other people's free content (flash games/etc) ?

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openstandards this, JS that, HTML5 whatever....

God you web developers are a bunch of girls. 'Oooooh flash is dead because Apple doesnt support it. This might force people to start coding to new standards so in a few years flash wont be as widespread on the net as it is now'. Great....you hear that guys?....run out and spend $800 on a device that will allow you to see most of the internet in at least 2 years.

Are you the same bunch of lazy arsed, copy/pasting, shortcut using morons who slagged off MS for trying to get their browser closer to your so called wonderful open standards because it meant you might have to do some work and recode your IE6 optimised sites?

Listen kids, we, the people who build server farms for multi-site hosting, fix things, provide solutions to REAL problems actually understand how computers operate. We know that the reason the website doesnt work isnt because the server has run out of disk space, its because the developers crappy PHP script is trying to load 2TB of modules when its called.

Web developers will always blame the technology and not their own abilities (You Firefox/Opera users will understand). Actually I should admit I use that excuse when it comes to Dell kit. In a few years we will see them slagging off h264 or whatever the popular tech is at the time. Web development is about trying to obtain maximum reward for minimum effort.

As for the iPad, it just fills a hole that was never there so I suppose it could be called a lump. It will sell of course as they have again taken someone elses ideas and made it idiot proof. OSX users should be worried though, the iPhone OS ands App store look like the beta for OS11. Any graphics workers out there care to run 1 CS app at a time?

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Can't help wondering if

Google Translate or some other machine translator was used to translate from the German ? Had to use my arms to keep from falling off my chair when I saw those subtitles ! Hilarious !...

Henri

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Bronze badge

The Same Clip

...was used for a satirical video about those CDs with thousands of fonts on them. I suppose it's a great example of a tantrum.

It is true that a Tablet Mac would have been a useful product; if Apple had made a Tablet Mac with multitouch extensions to OS X, it could indeed have been a major item.

But while the iPhone 10" does underwhelm me, hey, it does also double as an eBook reader. That is something useful. Except not anywhere but in the U.S., as I've learned from the Register. And the video seemed to have one thing wrong: I thought you could make phone calls with it. Perhaps I was mistaken.

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Anonymous Coward

Best you can hope for really.

What's worse than two control freaks? One control freak. Let's hope that Apple, Adobe, Microsoft and the like remain locked in retarded squabbles for eternity, so that the rest of us have a little room to manoeuvre.

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