back to article Manchester ID staff suffer isolation as new dawn fades

The people of Manchester have either lost all interest in travelling abroad and drinking, or couldn't give a monkey's about the government's lame duck ID card scheme, if a commons answer is anything to go by. Manchester is the first big trialling ground for the ID card scheme, before a broader trial across the rest of the …

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  1. Rick Byers
    FAIL

    Missing Stat

    Does NuLiabore have the stats of how many party faithful, in Manchester, have applied and got a card, compared to the whole?

  2. Captain Mainwaring
    Happy

    For those who don't look old enough...

    For those unlucky souls who are blighted with an eternally youthful appearance and find difficulty in being served in pubs and clubs around the country, there is a cheaper alternative to the National ID card. It is the excellent Citizen Card, an officially-approved ID card that can verify your age for age restricted goods and services and available at the bargain price of only ten pounds.

    Oh, by the way, it is not suitable for continental - bound P&O ferries from Hull, for that you will need a full National ID card!

  3. Anonymous Coward
    Thumb Up

    Glorious news comrades!

    Tractor production up 1800% !!!

  4. Guy Herbert
    Pirate

    @ Elmer Phud

    You seem to have spotted the typically nuanced Home Office announcement, but missed the fact that UKIP and the BNP have both been opposed to the ID scheme from the start.

    I don't think the TPA has any position on immigration per se at all (any more than NO2ID has). But they were among the spendidly motley collection of signatories objecting to "ID cards for foreigners":

    http://www.no2id.net/downloads/TelegraphLetter27NOV08.pdf

    1. Shakje
      WTF?

      Stop being so sensible

      UKIP are still a bunch of useless tossers ad criminals, and the BNP are still a bunch of racist twats.

    2. Elmer Phud

      Missed it

      Nah, BNP and UKIP (BNP with suits) are only too happy to jump on any available bandwagon as long as it can be made to seem as if it's heading in thier direction.

      Both bunches of fascists want to keep foriegners out but findit convenient to use No ID to gain votes. They both are isolationist motherfuckers who would have some form of checking the suitablility of residents if they ever got any power or influence.

      Both are relying on a slate of hating anything non-UK despite their public faces - the ID thing is a smoke screen as both are well-versed in populist lying to gain support.

      I'm really not as dumb as thier followers seem to be.

    3. Elmer Phud

      And as for the TPA . .

      TPA is heavily backed by off-shore Tories and right-wing groups - the only reason they would welcome foreign workers would be to exploit them - the chuck them out again (see Bahrain model)

  5. John Smith 19 Gold badge
    Happy

    Well done Katherine Courtney & Stephen Harrison

    Katherin is (or was) the Direc tor of the HO identity cards programme and Stephen heads (headed) the ID card policy unit at the HO.

    Without the fanatically committed work of these two little know civil servants it could never have happened.

    Perhaps El Reg might like to provide some photos of this dynamic duo, who have so contributed to putting the UK on the cutting edge of population management.

  6. John Smith 19 Gold badge
    Thumb Down

    And watch out for the biometric passport

    This is the one some people want to make a "reportable document," IE report changes of address, marital status or any of the other 50 odd shings the ID card (Schedule 1) lists.

    Still gives the "It's not compusory" spin but still covers a hell of a lot of people.

    140 days tops to go before regime change.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Grenade

      And its only a matter of time...

      You know, I can think of a great way of reducing the loss of government data.

      All they have to do rename the 7:33 to Paddington, "The public records office",

      and all of a sudden, when some idiot leaves a folder or a USB stick on the train, its not a case of "Some overpaid muppet left all your personal data on the train", rather its "Your personal data was alas stolen from the Public records office by some unscrupulous journalists."

      A plan with virtually no flaws methinks.

  7. Mike Byrne

    half a million quid

    "The government has been spending almost half a million quid trying to publicise the scheme in the city, touting its uses when travelling to Europe and clubbing."

    As a Manchester resident and someone who commutes about the city on a daily basis and who reads the Metro every day - I haven't seen one single piece of marketing material to push the ID card to me.

    Where has this half a million been spent?

    I wish I won that contract :-/

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Another Manc.

      You don't listen to the radio then? It was being pushed pretty hard over the Christmas period on commercial radio around Manchester, I've also seen billboard ads for it around the 'burbs of Manchester.

    2. Ascylto
      Big Brother

      Hidey Cards

      I got two unaddressed junk mails announcing the arrival of ID Cards.

      Both went into the shredder.

      I can't think why I've got a shredder, after all I've got nothing to hide! It must be a way to dispose of government (euphemism) junk mail.

  8. AndrueC Silver badge
    Thumb Down

    I call bull!

    So Meg Hiller is effectively saying "We received over four hundred thousand passport applications last year but we don't really know where they came from".

    Either incredibly incompetent or she has very little respect for the public and can't be bothered to even come up with a decent excuse.

    Oh and as a side story my colleague is applying for passport 'online'. According to their site the way it works is that they take the information and print out a form. They then send the form to you to sign so that you can send it back. Impressive use of technology there :-/

    1. Anonymous Coward
      WTF?

      Meg hilller

      So Meg Hiller is effectively saying "We received over four hundred thousand passport applications last year but we don't really know where they came from".

      Ah but you forgot the second bit:

      ... So if anyone applied for a passport last year, there all waiting here, cos we lost all your return addresses. Sorry.

      I assume.....

  9. Captain Mainwaring
    WTF?

    National ID Cards, useful throughout Europe.

    Just come back from local Sainsburys superstore where I witnessed a young German student from the local Uni, attempting to purchase a Bacardi Breezer type alcopop drink. The checkout assistant asked her for proof of age and after waving away her student ID as unsuitable, the young woman produced her Personalweiss (German National ID card) to prove that she was indeed over 18. With rather a puzzled look, the checkout assistant called over her supervisor who carefully checked the student's strange new ID credentials. After a minute's muted discussion, the supervisor then announced to the young freulein that this type of ID was not on their list of accepted ID and that she would have to return with her Passport to complete the transaction!

    It would appear then that a EU national ID card then can legally allow you to take residence in any EU country, but not to be an acceptable form of ID when purchasing age-restricted goods from the local supermarket. I wonder if our UK National ID card would be treated with the same disdain on the Continent as this student's National ID card was here? If it is not accepted as a general means of personal identification and a national passport is always required for personal ID purposes, then the card is basically just a sawn-off mini passport, with few practical applications outside one's own country of residence.

    1. Paul 25

      Why it's not accepted

      Whether a form of ID lets you buy alcohol is simply a product of whether your average cashier can actually spot a legit one.

      I couldn't tell you what a German ID card is supposed to look like, but I could take a decent stab at spotting a fake German passport.

      A border guard will know how to recognise a legit German ID card, because that's their job.

      Oh, and I seem to remember reading that currently the Germans don't accept the UK ID card at their borders yet, for precisely this reason, they have yet to train up their border guards/immigration officers.

      It's up to the county you are visiting to decide if it will accept a form of ID or whether they want to let you in. Just because UK.gov decides the ID card is legit, doesn't mean other countries automatically have to honour it.

  10. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Ahhhhh - one moment, please.

    "Fingerprint biometric passports are due to kick in from 2012, at which point anyone seeking a passport can also get an ID card."

    Will get an ID Card?

    Will have the option of applying for an ID card, will have a record prepared for them that will accumulate other data?

    Will be asked if they want an ID card as well and, if the option is declined, no further action will be taken?

    Just a clarification, please.

    1. Cameron Colley

      I read it as "will get an entry in teh card database".

      The only option being whether you want an ID card to carry around or not. By which time the police will have the power to arrest anyone who can't prove who they are when questioned under section 44.

      You don't think that this shit will stop just because some other puppets are "in power" do you?

  11. John 62

    time to get a new passport

    Last time I renewed my passport was a few years ago and I paid the horribly expensive price for getting it done there and then in the local passport office. Now it's more expensive for the normal service than it was for my same-day one. My current passport runs out shortly after the biometric stuff comes in, so I might just get it renewed early to save hassle later.

  12. Anonymous Coward
    Thumb Down

    British National (Socialist) Party

    @Shakje: BNP are still a bunch of racist twats

    Worse, they are socialists too.

  13. Anonymous Coward
    Black Helicopters

    How many were IPS employees

    Would somebody please put in an FIA request to IPS to ask how many of the 1400 Manchunians were IPS management bused in for a card?

    Anon for obvious reasons

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Not to mention

      All the other government departments quartered around Manchester, I reckon percentages in the high 80s will have been issued to guvmint employees, the rest to care in the community types..

  14. Jamie Jones Silver badge
    Joke

    Joe, you're so P.C.!

    "However, a quick back of the envelope calculation using"

    Everyone knows it's "back of a fag packet"

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Flame

      Lapsed smoker..

      I didn't have the will power to continue smoking so all my calculations are back of the envelope these days.

      Flames because just every now and then I could spark up...

  15. markp 1
    Unhappy

    So that makes it... how much per person?

    Dunno if someone's done this and I've missed it, but...

    £500,000 publicity...

    1,300 takeup...

    that's, what, £385 spent per take-up? not to mention all the other unlisted costs such as wages and production. Even if it had been 10x more successful that's still a fair whack and shows where the money charged to the applicant goes - not towards anything worthwhile that's for certain.

    What a bloody waste.

  16. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    @Paul 25 Verification of the ID card

    You raise an interesting point. Surely the whole point of this ID card nonsense is that the card is verified by having a reader and an online check with the ID card database?

    If that's done, then the ID card doesn't need the the personal information held on the front of it.

    There's a design flaw anyway, because the card has information on the front, which overtime will become out of date and require the re-issue of the card just for that, whereas all that should be on the card is a unique ID number and perhaps possibly the person's name.

    So by stupid design of the card itself, the government has created a system which will definitely require the card be replaced periodically and all the expense and bureaucracy that goes with it.

  17. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Desperation

    It's patently obvious why people aren't adopting the card.

    1) They don't see how spending the money on a card benefits them

    2)They don't want the card because of civil liberty issues.

    It's a sign of desperation when they advertising is based on a complete lie that it helps prevent ID theft. The card is completely passive, ID theft is coming from people's online habbits using the computer, from their private documents containing information being left out in rubbish sacks and how they use their credit/debit cards in restaurants/petrol stations etc.

    The ID card doesn't influence any of that.

    As for benefits, can be used for international travel? My passport does that. Why should I spend a significant amount of money on something which simply duplicates something I already have?

    If that's their unique selling point, if this is all they can come up with, then no f**ng wonder the cards not taking off.

    The only way they're going to get people to part with their hard earned cash is:

    1) Demonstrate there is some tangible benefit to owning the card

    2) Compel people to have one by introducing a law which forces people to present one when buying a product or service, such as buying alcohol, a flight ticket or a government department's service such as benefits.

    The whole thing shows you just how naeve and stupid the government is when it comes to marketing.

    As a public, we can make this card fail.

  18. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Nothing to hide

    I've stopped reading the nothing to hide, nothing to fear posts. Anyone with a brain cell knows that a completely useless argument and people writing such drivel deserve my contempt.

    To those, I say, go and get an education, open your eyes and look around at the news media and see what's been going on.

    Only yesterday it's came out that the American FBI were creating false terrorist security alerts as a excuse to gather information and telephone records.

  19. Rob Foster 1
    Grenade

    Send it Back

    The day one of these things plops through my letterbox will be the day I post it off to Number 10 (recorded delivery of course) with a polite note explaining that I didn't request one.. I would suggest that if everyone who objects did this, Downing Street would soon disappear under a mountain of plastic. Then maybe they'd get the message.

  20. Anonymous Coward
    Stop

    Advertising this s*** everywhere

    Has anyone else noticed the amount of flash advertising they are inserting into webpages (online newspapers and others) to get people to sign up for this?

    I hope nobody in frustration with being bombarded with this propaganda (that we are paying for) fills in the application forms with bogus details and addresses them to No.10 / Labour HQ etc....

    1. Maverick
      Happy

      Flash adverts? er no

      FF + Adblock Plus .+ NoScript

      . . now all we need is an add-on to auto filter pre-election news, I'd install that in a blink

  21. Paul 176
    Coat

    Manchester's New Order

    You could say she's lost control.

    Sorry, it's tearing me apart that no one's seen fit to comment on the Joy Division references.

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