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back to article LHC pulverises previous record: 2.36 TeV surprise collision!

The Large Hadron Collider (LHC), already the most powerful particle-punisher ever built, smashed the collision record yesterday night as humanity's first 2.36 Tera-electron-volt collisions were recorded. Scientists at the colossal subterranean ATLAS instrument cavern, located on the 27-km underground orbital motorway for hadrons …

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Alert

Nurse! ...

... He's out of bed again.

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Alien

Luis Sancho...

...has definitely just arrived from a parallel dimension

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@luis sancho

Well, if it's going to destroy us all, don't sit around here moaning about it. Go and wave a placard or something. We'll still be here when you get back. Or not, depending on how successful you are.

I don't know about quark cannon destroying the universe, but I do know that oxymoron doesn't mean what you think it means.

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Alien

2.36 TeV !!!!!

No wonder the quarks are restless tonight

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Alien

Lost

When's the next big collision scheduled? I want to go home!

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Re: Luis Sancho

Luis Sancho is the guy who filed a lawsuit in Hawaii to stop the LHC being built, because he thinks it'll create a black hole which destroys us all.

He seems to have switched his line of argument to one against the dastardly military industrial complex.

Either way, he's a worthless crank.

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FAIL

No he isn't.

At least, regarding the bit about starting a lawsuit. That was Walter Wagner, a Hawaii-based botanist. Apart from that, they're both proud bearers of the Tinfoil Badge with the Unicorn Cross and Astral Fringes. Grade A Certified Loonies.

Please don't mix up your nutjobs, lest they attain critical mass. A nutjob chain reaction may well prevent Total Earth Custardificulation, and what would we do with the Rhubarb Crumb in that case?

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Not quite

Courtroom papers reveal the Hawaii lawsuit was filed by both Sancho and Wagner. Sancho didn't sign many of the papers, and Wagner has been scolded by at least one judge for acting improperly as Sancho's lawyer. But it is Sancho's name which is first on the case (dismissed, appeal has been fully briefed but no word on when it will be argued).

Original complaint:

http://dockets.justia.com/docket/court-hidce/case_no-1:2008cv00136/case_id-78717/

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Coffee/keyboard

@ teacake

Seconded.

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Alien

Paging Mr Freeman

"Why didn't they listen? We tried to warn them."

"I never thought I'd see a resonance cascade, let alone

create one."

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Rise and shine, Missster Freeman

That's DOCTOR Freeman to you, sonny jim.

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@ Steve X

Consider me educated. Thanks.

Sancho's still a fruit loop though.

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Ah but!

Try getting the mosquitos to bash into each other, let me know how you get on.

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This post has been deleted by its author

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Coat

I knew it!

I felt a great disturbance in the Force, as if millions of protons suddenly cried out in terror and were suddenly silenced. I fear something terrible has happened.

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Party

Come on you guys at the LHC we want to have an end-of-everything PARTY and want to know when to start

oh wait ...

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Boffin

Custard?

If the earth does disappear in a mass custardisation, would that be known forevermore (at least by civilisations that haven't been annihilated) as the moment the earth was destroyed at the Custard Stroke?

Would that make people who believe in this as a valid theory "custard strokers"?

Just wondering....

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Troll

@BKB, four flying mosquitos

Ever saw flying mosquitos collide? Thought not. My money would be on the LHC, but maybe for some billion Eur. one might come up with a suitable mosquito collider ...

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FAIL

@hahnchen

"Luis Sancho is the guy who filed a lawsuit in Hawaii to stop the LHC being built, because he thinks it'll create a black hole which destroys us all."

Typical yank who seems to think that him filing a lawsuit in A DIFFERENT FARKING COUNTRY can stop something happening in another.

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Typical Euro...

Presuming that a whack-job is a "typical yank".

Indeed, implying that you can even have a "typical" individual in a population on the scale of hundreds of millions seems to indicate an immature understanding of the diversity of the human species.

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Anonymous Coward

Ptchhh...

Typical bloody yank.

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The title is required, and must contain letters and/or digits.

"Typical yank who seems to think that him filing a lawsuit in A DIFFERENT FARKING COUNTRY can stop something happening in another."

That sort of goes towards that whole "nutjob" thing, wouldn't you say? I'd say the typical yank wouldn't know where Switzerland *is* let alone how to interact with their legal system.

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FAIL

Typical Yank

Glossing over the fact that Luis Sancho is considered a typical Yank for being an utter nutjob *and starting a lawsuit* against the target of his nuttiness, not just being an utter nutjob in general.

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Troll

@Steven

"Indeed, implying that you can even have a "typical" individual in a population on the scale of hundreds of millions seems to indicate an immature understanding of the diversity of the human species."

Which isn't as large as some might think.

Most of the diversity is only skin deep and when you have, let's say, 80% of the population fitting into description, you can say quite safely that description describes a "typical individual" (in that sense, of course). Statistical fact, not just an opinion as you seem to suggest.

It's almost funny that someone think that they are unique when there are hundreds of millions of people, isn't it?

And not notice the obvious irony of the idea. (Not that I suggest that some of the writers are slightly irony-impaired or something like that.)

Result of the schooling system of our friends from other side of the pond, is it?

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Typical, indeed

I was born, raised, grew up and currently live here, and I can tell you... that Sancho guy _is_ your typical American. I'm considered _atypical_ around here, i.e. someone who has two brain cells to rub together.

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Alert

Area Effect

Just a little bit of info about cosmic ray collisions. A cosmic ray has been recorded 110 million times more energetic than the billions being collided at CERN. Such high energy collisions light up a patch of sky similar in size to the full moon for a trillionth of a second or two. The speed of the energy flash is why you do not see them but it still means an area effect miles across.

All points on earth can be hit by highly energetic cosmic ray collisions including the beam crossing point and its immediate surrounds which unlike the rest of the planet has an energy density 100,000 time hotter than the core of the sun. New science means new risks. That is not rocket science. What people like Luis Sancho and hopefully myself are doing is asking have enough questions regarding the risk assessment been asked.

Scientists are paid to think of the risks and so have the scientists at CERN thought about a collision event in the beam crossing millions of times more powerful than the little ones they are claiming are safe. People have the right to know if these safety questions have been asked. Or am I to assume people are so stupid that their safety means nothing to them and their children. In the absence or good information I am tending to lean toward people are stupid.

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Headmaster

Your very last statement I agree with

The rest, not so much. If you think Sanchez is asking questions regarding the safety of the LHC experiments, then you clearly wouldn't recognize a loon when you see one, if not that you're one yourself.

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Big Brother

Yes they have thought about it...

...the good news is I'm sure they have thought about it. That's what they do: putting out papers.

...the bad news is that, unless you have the toolset (mathematics of QM and possibly QFT, be at home in the Standard Model, know how to deal with experimental statistics, have a good intuition about what to look for, have colleagues in astrophysics to query about what they see or do not see happing in the universe at large etc.) you do not even have the wherewithal to ask the correct question.

The real world is not like Star Trek where anything can happen and any question that a writer got from the hole in his wall makes sense. Worrying about Stable Black Holes in the LHC is like worrying about mutant ooze coming out of your fridge at night and strangling you. Rather unlikely to happen.

So. Hurry along now.

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FAIL

Nothing to see here

Mr Noonan's first paragraph is correct, but he then loses the plot. High-energy cosmic rays all interact with nuclei high in the atmosphere, producing a shower of secondary and tertiary particles each with far less energy. Even if, magically, a high-energy particle made it to the ground and interacted with a proton in the LHC, the additional energy over a collision with a 'stationary' particle would be a tiny fraction of a percent.

Collisions with energy levels equal to or vastly exceeding those encountered in the LHC occur many times a day in Earth's atmosphere and must have happened billions of times in Earth's history. If they had even a tiny probability of producing a catastrophic result, it would already have happened and we wouldn't be here to argue about it.

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Lies and dogmas of a worldy profession...

- false statements that portrayed the quark cannon as a harmless cosmic ray factory, when it is a fact of science that quarks and cosmic rays are completely different kind of particles. We have in fact excellent cosmic rays observatories and we never found quarks in cosmic rays.

- marketing campaigns affirming that this machine will prove a series of fringe theories, pumped up as the ‘meaning of it all’: The company said that the quark cannon would find 'God' s particle', a hypothesized particle called the Higgs, which acording to the company shall explain the meaning of mass. This again is false. The particle is self-similar to a well known quark, the top quark. It has the same mass and properties, and so it is very likely, since the Universe is efficient and not redundant, that the Higgs, which we haven't found in 30 years do not exist, as we shall explain in detail. Further on, even if it exists it is only useful to explain a reaction, the death of our matter, as neutrons and protons decay into 2 particles called W and Z, which then seem to transform themselves into Higgs=Top quarks (the sum of their masses is that of the Higgs/Top: W+Z=T). So this hypothetical Higgs merely would be the end result of our death as matter. And a factory of Top/Higgs means only a factory that will kill us.

Apart from that, the Higgs does not explain at all the meaning of mass. All that marketing about the Higgs/Tops is ludicrous and it has to do with the confrontation between quantum physicists and Einstein, the scientist who worked out a theory of gravitation and mass, which still stands. In essence, Einstein defined masses as 'whirls of spacetime', attractive tornado-like vortices that followed his principle of equivalence between mass and acceleration. So as a hurricane accelerates towards its center attracting all what surrounds it a mass is an attractive whirl of space-time.

-The second 'job' of this quark cannon, which obviously will provoke an enormous explosion when it creates a quark condensate is, CERN says, to replicate the big-bang ( not of the Earth but of the cosmos). Yet today the cosmic big bang is an increasingly discredited theory, which astrophysicists are substituting by the concept, recently proved by the Hubble, of a ‘fractal Universe’ of infinite hierarchical scales, similar to those fractal drawings that self-repeat their form at different sizes,

Plainly speaking, the ‘Quark Cannon’ is just a relic of the Cold War industry of Nuclear Devices, ‘reconverted’ to spurious civil use; a weapon that menaces for the first time in history the survival of our species and will not bring any remarkable advance for science. Since all the observations that matter to cosmology can be obtained with the use of safe telescopes. The idea that the understanding of the Universe is achieved through the use of Atomic cannons and Nuclear, Quantum Physicists hold the key to the secrets of the universe is a myth, built during the cold war, when this specific branch of science reached its zenith of undisputed military power.

If we were to go deeper in the history of human thought, as the French Philosopher, Paul Virilio, one of the critics of CERN, explained, our western civilization was built based in the power of cannons and weapons, on the search for news speeds of destruction and we have adapted our theories of the physical Universe to that concept. It is the secret history of physics and its ½ reality, its passion for 'entropy=energy' theories that justify the military profession, Since if God created the world with a big explosion and the 'Universe is dying' (Helmolth), then warriors and weapon-makers are the 'chosen'. Ultimaely our civilization hasnt changed. The first Aryans worshipped Shiva, God of Energy, which has a statue at CERN. in the middle ages the popes backed as high priests the king-warriors. Now physicists back, as high priests of science, all violent theories of reality, so the industry of war can go on and we can make quark cannons 'to understand the Universe'. And of course,

we have the Saint Nobel of dynamite (Nobel was the biggest arms dealer of the XIX century) to give the prizes to our best. This biased vision of reality explains why Mr. Wheeler, the maker of the H-bomb, substituted Einstein theory of black holes, he called frozen stars; how Gamow imposed his big bang theory over the peaceful, creative steady state of Fred Hoyle that now has a resurgence in the 'Fractal paradigm'; how Galileo imposed

his studies on cannonballs and the concept of time as only the change in motion of things, over Aristotle classic concept of time=change as a dual process (change in motion/energy AND

formal change, proper of life beings). Not even when Darwin explained time with his theory of evolution, as change in the information=form of beings, physicists understood the limits of their inquire. On the contrary, physicists, as warriors do, imposed their inquisitions of thought and Mr. Nobel, expressely forbade to give his prize to 'evolutionary' models of reality. WHile in any Congress of astrophysics the Big-bang is dogma and no other model is allowed to be discussed.

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Silver badge

Does not really add up

If the cosmic rays (the passing of each is apparently harmless to baryonic matter) are indeed 110x10^6 more energetic than the collider-accelerated particles then even if two accelerated hadrons will collide simultaneously with such cosmic ray particle they should affect its energy about as much as a couple of mosquitos hitting a jumbo jet will affect your flight time to NYC.

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FAIL

@Luis Sancho

You don't have one millionth of the intellectual capabilities to understand what you are worried about, and your capabilities to express your worries in a comprehensible way is equally lacking.

Will you kindly Fornicate Off And Decease?

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Silver badge

LHC Test Run == No Worries?

Then how come I woke up the day after this so-called "harmless" experiment in a world where Apple computers were not the ubiquitous household appliances I grew up with, George W. Bush won the 2000 US Presidential elections and my Lotus/Matra Strato-Cruiser was replaced with a Hyundai Elantra with, of all things, *wheels*?

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Paris Hilton

Ahh, welcome back

You've been in a drug induced schizopphrenic fantasy for the past xx years, Apple computers dominant? Must have been some really bad stuff you were on.

Paris, in my fantasy world......

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Unhappy

All I know is...

The Vogons are going to be pissed when they find their work done for them. Think of all the extra paperwork!

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Grenade

Vogons

Their bloody singlemindedness will compel them to order a new one to demolish. Which would surely keep the amount of extra paperwork well down. It's a bit like Mythbusters too: "never mind that it's broken and falling apart already, we'll build a new one to see what happens when we stuff it with umpteen kilos of high explosives *AND BLOW IT UP* [insert Adam's maniacal laughter here]"

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Happy

As Ford Prefect would say...

Don't Panic!!

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Happy

Downtiming The Night Side

It's just one huge scam to hide the power requirements of a viable time machine.

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Silver badge

Interesting days ahead ....

"I can't decide .... Is luis sancho either :

a) a tinfoil hat wearing loon

b) taking trolling to a whole new level

c) amanfromMars's sister" .... Gordon is not a Moron Posted Wednesday 9th December 2009 12:58 GMT

I can decide c) for you, Gordon is not a Moron, and definitively advise you that I am not her brother.

And "Yet in this case, the negative consequences, the possible extinction of life, far outweigh the benefits for our knowledge of the Universe, and this is the key fact that the Nuclear Company has successfully hidden to the public and governments that founded this absurd quest for reaching the energies of the big-bang that once might have destroyed the Universe and now menace to destroy the planet Earth." .... luis sancho Posted Wednesday 9th December 2009 12:43 GMT .... is the most idiotic of speculative sentences, and some might say that I might know what I'm talking about. :-)

Maybe we should add d) American.

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Headmaster

Interesting indeed

This is the second post from AManFromMars1 in as many weeks that is largely comprehensible even without any cranial gymnastics. If this isn't a sign that the Apocalypse (in the shape of piping hot custard on Rhubarb Crumb) is upon us, I don't know what is.

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Pint

It begins...

I can only point you all to the Sun web site. It is slightly odd this story :

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/2764647/Spiral-UFO-puts-Norway-in-a-spin.html

Just shortly after the fire up the beast to a 'warm' setting, strange sights in the sky above Norway?

As I say, this is just the beginning, wait till they set the LHC to hot, then we will shurely see some fireworks!

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Boffin

Dull but far more plausible suggestion.

Exhaust ejecta from a russian missile test taking place off the coast nearby.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zx8i5EfmYU4

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Flame

LMC

Does anyone else feel the urge to build an over the top mosquito collider?? I think we could make something that would put the LHC to shame with a few McDonalds straws and a hair drier

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Uhhh, and just shortly after...

So much for the boffin Nay Sayers... This does look and act suspiciously like an evaporating black hole, doesn't it???

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/2764647/Spiral-UFO-puts-Norway-in-a-spin.html#mySunComments

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FAIL

In unrelated news, unrelated things continued to happen everywhere on Earth.

Sorry, are you claiming to have ever seen an evaporating black hole or to know what one looks like?

No?

Then you're just making it up, aren't you? You have no idea what one looks like, but you say it looks like this thing. You have no idea how one behaves, but you claim it behaves like this thing. You're full of it. So, according to you, a black hole is something that sits there, frantically spewing *out* *light* and not sucking stuff in at all is it? No, it isn't. This thing behaved and looked nothing like a black hole and you're a hysterical idiot for even suggesting the possibility.

Hint: You try and find any time of day or night that anyone could ever switch anything on anywhere without there being a UFO sighting *somewhere else* within say plus or minus 48 hours. Let us know how that works out for you, won't you.

Hint2: An evaporating micro black hole "looks like" a tiny shower of gamma rays. You'd need a cloud chamber to see it and it's minute.

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Happy

How about

we put the mosquitos in the LHC and see what happens

Then CERN really will have bugs in their machine

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@Boris

Just because you're a cockroach, you want to start executing the the mosquitos! That's not on, dude, even if you are trying to disguise it behind 'research'.

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Terminator

@luis sancho

Hey Luis, get a load of this story on the BBC news:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/8401349.stm

An all new campaign to solve some of the fundamental challenges in Artificial Intelligence! MIT (every right thinking man knows the M stands for Military) are gathering together the 20 best AI scientists in the World.

Just think, in 2020, wars will be fought for us by clever robots packing LHC cannons. It'll be awesome... and all the Rhubarb you can eat!

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No fear but, why bother?

I'm pretty sure the U.S. gov killed a new collider project a while back because it was deemed too expensive and the justification presented wasn't persuasive enough.

No doubt knowledge of physics will be advanced but what else?

Anybody want to speculate on how the LHC will have benefited us 20 years from now?

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