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back to article Kingston SSD Now V 40GB boot drive

We are deeply impressed by solid-state drive technology and would love to recommend that you ditch your hard drive immediately. However, there are a few obstacles. You can buy a 2TB hard drive for £135 but have to fork out £195 for an 80GB Intel SSD, up to £300 for a 128GB SSD and £500 for a 256GB SSD. Kingston SSD Now V 40GB …

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FAIL

Drive letters?!

I see reference to drive letters as used in DOS.

Is Windows *still* treating separate physical drives as logically separate?

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@A J Stiles

"Is Windows *still* treating separate physical drives as logically separate?"

Big fucking deal, so what. Now go read up on NTFS mount points and stop being a trolling retard:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volume_Mount_Point

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Boffin

Moving docs & settings / users

If you really want to properly move Documents and Settings to another drive you need to do it at install time (at least with win2k/xp/2k3).

Look up unattended answer files - one of the things you can set there is where to put Documents and Settings. I did this for our Citrix server - didn't want user profiles eating into the system drive.

Citrix also likes you to rename drive letters so that it can map client C: drives to C: on the server. Ours have the system drive as R: and the documents & settings drive as S:, for example.

NTFS junction points have their uses, but if Win7 supports proper symlinks (I think NTFS has always supported them, just that there was never a tool to create them?) then they are likely to be much more flexible.

Junction points would work well if (and I don't know much about these) Windows Dynamic Disks work just as well as LVM on Linux. Otherwise, symbolic links will allow you to get much higher space utilisation (who would want to waste space on their SSD?!).

For me, when my laptop HD was dying, I plumped for an OCZ Vortex 30GB and it's been enough. Then again, I'm running Debian which doesn't need 20GB to install unless you feel like installing the whole package archive!

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Anonymous Coward

@Jamie Kitson

They're not the same chipset, they're nasty jmicron ones.

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if ur pc takes 5 minutes to boot

then ur doin smt wrong tbh. imo ssd's just dont have the lifespan yet.

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@Steven Jones

My Acer 17" laptop came with two 2.5" drive bays *and* a DVD ReWriter drive, so you don't need to lose the optical drive if you don't want to (obviously it's bulkier than a 15" but then I like having the bigger screen!). It's not even high up the model series.

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@ Anonymous Hero

Ooooh! So Windows is actually starting to look a little bit like a real operating system now, then! Only a few years after everyone else had it, too.

Has it got privilege separation as well? It might even be ready for connecting to a network, a few versions down the line.

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Boffin

Redirection

So can anyone confirm if it's easier to transparently redirect C:\Users\ under windows 7 than it is under Vista? The only way I could get it going like that on vista was to to manually junction c:\users\<myusername> but it was kinda fiddly to get working and didn'tt feel like a clean solution. This is because my current C drive is a 32GB SLC SSD but I don't think that capacity has a chance of cutting it on Win7, even with redirected c:\users

The only clean solution involved editing installation scripts, which was a tad overkill

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@Oninoshiko

But there was some sort of licensing problem that caused Apple to abandon ZFS for OS X. Any idea about that?

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Anonymous Coward

@Jason D

Paging, what's that? Get enough RAM and you probably won't need paging ever again... I've had mine turned off for years (even in w2k).

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This could potentially work..

I didn't think 40 GB would be enough until I fired up control panel and released that despite having 128 installs there's still only 30 GB of stuff on there and 20 GB of that is games.

Everything else is pretty small, with the utorrent install winning the prize at 264 KB

This drive is no good for gamers who should probably plump for 80 GB, but for everyone else the space seems about right.

I'll consider it... to back it up, I might even be able to clone the boot disk onto a 32 GB SD card to have a completely internal backup solution.

I wish they'd start embedding this stuff into high-end motherboards.

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@thomh

The licensing problem was down to wanting support from Sun/Oracle, not a clash of incompatible license types (which I understand is the trouble with using ZFS with Linux).

This is as close to the real info as exists in public:

http://mail.opensolaris.org/pipermail/zfs-discuss/2009-October/033125.html

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Go

Already doing this

I have a 64Gb SSD for the OS and a spinning hdd for user data. Granted, I use Linux which makes all this easy. Windows users will still have to contend with the aforementioned "Documents and Settings" problems, not to mention everything wanting to install to "C:\Program Files".

And no, futzing about with unattended answer files during install is not the answer.

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FAIL

Most important info MISSING,...

is it me, have i just misread this (and many other) reviews. Why is there no mention of random-writes in Mb/sec - probably as it's just slows to a halt. The 2Gb music file transfer is about the same as a good sata which is way cheaper Gb/£.

I really want to like this drive,.. I really want to buy an ssd that isn't over-priced and has a good rand-writ, but there just isn't one anywhere. No-one (please correct me if i'm wrong) makes a decent ssd at a good price.

For years I've kept my C drive at 30Gb for Windows and swap, Progs on D, and important data on a seperate drive. having a small C means if it blows i can be back up and running inside an hour. So I'm just gagging for a 30Gb ssd. Oh well, maybe next year!

FAIL because it got my hopes up but is far to slow to be of real use as a Windows boot drive!!

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Happy

Would suit me

I always install Windows XP with an answer file on floppy disk - it provides a few neat advantages, chiefly one I love: You can choose where My Documents lives - I stick it on the D: drive (having partitioned and formatted it first, with a Windows PE CD), and I never worry about filling up my system drive with documents. Ever.

It's easy enough to do, doesn't require faffing around with slipstreamed drivers, answer files on a new CD, etc - just put the required files on a floppy disk and stick it in the drive when you boot from the Windows XP installation CD. If your system doesn't have a floppy drive, it is possible to use an external USB floppy drive at boot time (as long as your BIOS recognises it, you're golden) - since the answer file is read before the Windows kernel is booted.

FWIW, I never understood why Microsoft didn't provide an installation option that allowed the user to specify where they wanted the "My Documents" folder to live. Maybe it didn't fit in with the our-users-are-idiots-and-love-Teletubbies thinking that seems to be par for the course at MSFT?

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Joke

@ThomH

"But there was some sort of licensing problem that caused Apple to abandon ZFS for OS X. Any idea about that?"

Probably because it was a feature that would have required more than one mouse button. ;)

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@Sarah Davis

I'm not sure what level you set "cheap" at. Tom's Hardware do write-access latency tests (although not on this drive). SSDs like my Crucial 256Gb get down below 0.5ms. From the number of write IOPs you can expect on a 64GB Kingston drive (which I suspect replaces this one_) it looks like it will be about 11-12ms. That's slower than 2.5" HDDs where you might expect 7-9ms for random writes. However, in practice, for a system disk the SDD will still beat the hell out of an HDD overall due to the random read latency which will be about 30 times lower on the SSDs.

You would not, of course, use one of these drives for something which is dominated by random writes or large sequential access, but for a system disk it should be vastly better performance than an HDD, assuming that the firmware is up to scratch.

Of course there's little point in buying these things for sequential throughput. A couple of HDDs in RAID-0 format would beat one of these things.

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What about compiling?

What are these drives like for compiling? I sit and wait for a very large java project to build under Ubuntu and I'd be interested in how these drives stack up compared to sata.

Moving from XP to Ubuntu has already reduced build times by 40%

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WTF?

dual discs in a laptop

My acer 6930 has a space for a second hdd under a cover at the front, unfortunately some retard in the styling department got carried away and the plastic cover won't fit once you put a disc inside. I have seen piccies of an acer with a different bit of bulgy plastic there, but I don't know what the model is though.

"now boots in under a minute", ;) glad I've moved all my machines to Ubuntu over the last few months, even with database services and other stuff they boot faster than that on old whirly whirly discs.

hmm Maybe NTFS and NTSC are related???? Never Twice F***ing Same

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Alert

ZFS with Linux

You *can* use ZFS with Linux, *as long as* you compile it all yourself from Source Code. Compiling Source Code you rightfully acquired is covered under fair dealing / fair use -- otherwise the code would not be not fit for its rightful purpose.

What you aren't allowed to do, is pass on the compiled kernel to any third party.

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V+?

I now notice there is a V (or V-) and a V+ version of the 64gig drives, the + version being an extra £70. Anyone know the differnce?

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Contrary Speeds

From Kingston's own site:

V

64GB, 128GB – Up to 100MB/sec. read; 70MB/sec. write

40GB – Up to 170MB/sec. read; 40MB/sec. write

V+

Sequential Read Throughput – 64GB, 128GB, and 256GB - 220MB/s

Sequential Write Throughput – 64GB - 140MB/s, 128GB - 170MB/s, 256GB - 180MB/s

and benchmarkreviews.com reckons that even 150 MB/s write is slow.

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@By Simon10, re Paging.

"Paging, what's that? Get enough RAM and you probably won't need paging ever again... I've had mine turned off for years (even in w2k)."

Then you need to read up a little on paging since you know nothing about it...

And you're still paging even without a page file...

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Dead Vulture

Regsters

This is a crap drive, win uses writings for any program , Intel SLC drives are so expensive, I'd love the IOPS from Intel MLC but they're shit.

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@Steven Jones

thanks, just ordered the 64Gb for £100 (£1.56/Gb so more economical), will split it 50/50 for C (boot) and D (progs), not-so-important apps will go on another partition which i'll mount as a folder on D. Hopefully getting W7 next week, so antisipate a swifter system by the following week.

Thanks for your input

:-)

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Boffin

@thomh, @A J Stiles

@thomh

Apple was (and is) free to use it under the terms of the CDDL, as is anyone. I can only guess that they wanted different terms, probibly a patent indemnification, which sun would not give them. Of course this is all speculation, I was not party to these discussions, if they occered.

@A J Stiles

It is true that you could build your own kernel with it. The conflicting clauses only come into force when you try to redistribute.

You could also use a GPL "shim" like nvidia does (although I have heard questions about if this really gets you around the redistribution requirements of the GPL).

There is also the possiblity of a clean-room implementation. Get just the on-disk format and independently write code to handle the format.

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Pirate

2 drives in a laptop...

i have an acer 5230E here, and it contains two SATA ports, one for the HDD and one for the DVDRW drive.

Should be possible to reroute the wiring internally and mount a second SATA drive elsewhere in the case at the cost of the DVD (no biggie, use an external)

:)

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Happy

Get the 64GB version

Get the 64GB version (Kingston SSDNow V-Series 64GB Solid State Drive (SSD). It costs £100 (ie £25 extra than the 40GB version) and its write speed is 80GB/sec (ie twice as fast). It costs a little extra but it solves all the shortcomings of the 40GB version.http://www.reghardware.co.uk/Design/graphics/icons/comment/thumb_down_32.png

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Get the 64GB V+ version

Get the 64GB V+ version (Kingston SNV225-S2/64GB). It costs £109 (just £9 more than the normal 64GB version). Its write speed is 140GB/sec and its read speed is 220MB/s - much faster!

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