Early adopters bloodied by Ubuntu's Karmic Koala
Ubuntu 9.10 is causing outrage and frustration, with early adopters wishing they'd stuck with previous versions of the Linux distro. Blank and flickering screens, failure to recognize hard drives, defaulting to the old 2.6.28 Linux kernel, and failure to get encryption running are taking their toll, as early adopters turn to the …
Installed 9.04 netbook edition about 5 months ago on my Mini9. Did the upgrade via the update manager at the weekend, took about 4 hours all in (not the best internet connection at home) and working flawlessly.
Man if this was a Windows 7 upgrade fuckup there'd be 2000 comments here all howling and whining about how shit MS are and why the fuck you'd ever consider anything other than XP.
Linux ready for the desktop....I don't think so.....ever....
Upgraded a Mythbox (Ubuntu 9.04 running Mythtv) from package manager and went perfectly. Did clean install of Karmic on a Dell Latitude laptop that dual boots XP and Win 7 and have only two issues:
1. Constant notifications that hard drive is about to fail
2. Constant notification that terminal server applet is faulty
Pretty happy overall
A poll on a forum where people normally visit to get answers to problems might just possibly be giving a skewed result... maybe ?
Gone from 9.0.4 to 9.10 on an old piece of crap Acer laptop. Went perfectly.
The problems I encountered, upgrading and then clean installing, onto a netbook seem to stem from adding KDE to the system. On all occasions, upgrade and install, full ubuntu and NBR, the installation (and re-boots into) Gnome are all fine and dandy. It is only when I convert the system to KDE and then reboot do I get a black screen and hang on boot. And to make matters worse, with Grub2, I now have no access to a recovery menu, with the grub menu hidden by default, and you have to access the system to enable it - whoever thought of that needs a slap!
I've got 9.10 and win 7 installed in dual boot mode on my dell laptop, no problems with the 9.10, win 7 gave me some headaches hunting down drivers for the newer hardware...
but installing any OS is not something for people to take lightly, and should not be done by the man in the street, IMHO.
I did a clean install and now the box flies. It is much faster than 9.04 - the lag gas gone and the wireless network connection is instant - before it would take upto a minute before connecting.
My install was flawless and I'm loving my netbook again.
"Still, that proves that Ubuntu has a long road to haul before installing even this popular Linux distro is the no-brainer that helps makes Windows the success it is among regular PC users."
Yes, ease of install is EXACTLY what makes Windows popular.
Ubuntu isn't a bad distro - and they're certainly good at marketing themselves - but whenever I've played with it (admittedly not since 7.10) I wasn't impressed and also ran into problems (X, wifi etc), and generally I found it less usable than SLES or Mandriva/PCLOS. Definitely not the distribution I would recommend to new users.
Upgraded two systems last weekend. One went smooth, no issues. The other gave me a blank screen. Turned out to be an issue with the AMD/ATI catalyst drivers. Went back to a clean X conf file, and when that gave me back my gui, I re-installed catalyst. Worked fine.
So a minor (but for inexperienced users FATAL) hiccup
I have to say that some of the features in 9.10 feel less than properly tested.
Updated from 9.04 to 9.10 last night (well tried to), but now just after I log in, the whirly wheel under UBUNTU stops, the machine freezes and the machine's dead.
If I'd seen this article 24 hours ago I wouldn't have bothered doing the update. What a difference a day makes!
One machine upgraded flawlessly the other two one a laptop, the other 2 year old hardware snapped. I am not too hurt by this as we had some cracking OSX borks on upgrading. Generally it is better to go from a clean install I think as less chaff gets brought foward froim the earlier incarnation. As AC05:41 kernel is 2.6.31-14 so maybe the author's machine has borked. Happy days.
Installed Karmic on my main machine and an old Thinkpad. Each worked flawlessly. It looks lovely, it's responsive, and it supported all my hardware straight away without me having to do a single thing! What sort of fool upgrades anyway? Just do a clean install. Worried about data? All my stuff's on external drives or living in the cloud somewhere... Uuurgh, can't believe I used the C word! ;)
I even installed Wine from the repositories and Office 2003 installed as if it was a regular Windows machine. No messing about required - no command line stuff, no scripts, no obscure packages required. Very impressed. And before anyone points it out - I know there's OpenOffice, I just like trying shit out to see what happens! :)
The only minor niggle I have is with the new version of Grub. The configuration works slightly differently to the old version, which really threw me at first but a quick search of the Ubuntu forums soon found an answer. Also for some reason my big box hangs on boot and says 'Loading Grub' for about 15 seconds - and then proceeds to the boot menu... Odd...
I have to take my hat off to Canonical and the rest of the Ubuntu community. It's not perfect by any means, but they've come closest to creating a Linux desktop that my nan could use. Quite frankly, there's some fucking awful distros out there, but this one has got it bang on. I know they've been criticised in the past for not giving much back to the Kernel, but that misses the point. The contribution they've made to the whole desktop experience is outstanding.
I love Ubuntu once it's installed and working.
However. Their QA for new releases is and almost always has been shockingly bad. I'm pretty sure they can't possibly have 20 or 30 machines in a variety of configurations around to test releases on or they would simply see how buggy they are. That or the obsession with time based releases trumps releasing a solid system.
I think I've had one Ubuntu release upgrade flawlessly, and I normally install each release on 3 machines, pretty much every time one or two of them have serious upgrade failures that I wouldn't be able to fix if I hadn't been working with Linux for as long as I have. This time it's the nvidia kernel module failing to compile for the release kernel.
Wish I had waited now the most annoying problem is wireless support. If your SSID is hidden forget connecting wirelessly...
I had a 9.04 system running perfectly, decided to wipe clean and install 9.10. Took me 6 hours to get my Wifi working (that worked flawlessly in 9.04). That 6 hours involved about 16 reboots back to a working WIndows 7 installation to get online and get support.
This is very typical of Linux in general.
My 2p. Downloaded and updated while still watching telly on mythtv then surfing the web.
One reboot and up and running with no problems. Work colleague also upgraded no hassles.
Only problem I had upgrading from 9.04 to 9.10 was the disappearance of audio from all media players - I was not using the preferred pulse audio output (most of it wasn't even installed) and when i set up everything worked just fine. I've had far worse experiences in the past (upgrading to 8.10 practically destroyed two out of 4 machines at home).
I am NOT, anyway, going to upgrade my wife's computer until she goes somewhere for a week...
Admittedly on a fresh install on a new machine. Downloaded in around 40 minutes and installed and logged in in under 20 minutes. The only depressing thing was the time to transfer my old virtual machines to the new machine.
Firstly, which techhies do an upgrade? I consider myself a tech, but always do a clean install of ANY new OS. Upgrading is just asking for trouble! I wouldn't even dream of 'upgrading' from the Beta to the RC, or from the RC to the final version. Stoopid, Stoopid, Stoopid. These guys deserve what they got.
Secondly, I've been onto Launchpad (the Ubuntu reporting site) reporting issues with my graphics drivers. In my case, on a Matrox G450MMS, it's Xorg that has changed significantly, not Ubuntu. Matrox are being complete arses with their drivers. They are the new ATI I think, but I can't blame Ubuntu for this.
What is possible is to put the Repos back in for an older version, which you know works. Then you can roll back Xorg to a version you are comfortable with, and lock it. Any Linux 'guru' should know how to do this, and if not, it's documented to hell on the net. Just do a Google. It's how I learned.
I totally agree, this might block newbies from learning Linux, but much of the Xorg arch has changed and manufacturers are not really keeping up. They've been busy priming for Windows 7. Where are their priorities going to lay?
I think this article is right in some ways, and wrong in others. I agree totally that some users not so experienced with Linux in general will find this a nightmare upgrade. The faults are in manufacturers and Xorg however, not with Ubuntu. The same fiasco happened when Vista was released, remember? Many manufacturers had not re-designed drivers to the new Windows model, so hardware went dead. Now 7 is out, most have had time to change or have been forced to. However Windows has a HUGE following. Ubuntu's only problem is that the new release uses new architecture in the Kernel and Xorg, and many manufacturers have not caught up to this yet.
Any competent IT techie would have installed 9.10 in a spare partition to test it first, and then moved to that as a working OS if they were happy. Then your 9.04 partition becomes the partition ready for 10.04. So I do disagree with this article, in saying it's Linux tech's that are having problems. Those that are having problems are the ones that "Think" they know what they are doing. Those that "Think" they are cool running Linux, but really don't have an f'ing clue. Any tech knows those sort of people, and the BOFH knows exactly how to deal with them. Drop 'em down a lift shaft!
I have had no experience of any of this. Flawless is how I would describe it. Then again I'm using the x64 version AND have significant skills in computing, so it might just me. :)
Don't beleive the Internet - Windows 7 sucks and LINUX and Apples Macs are brilliant and much much better at everything in world EVER !!!
Did an online upgrade of my 9.04 system, didn't hit any snags at all. Got a fairly standard dell box, just whacked the "upgrade" button on update manager and went for lunch. MY favorite shiny new thing so far? Palimpsest.
Not a single problem here.. Dell D830 works like a treat and its much better. HD access quicker and streaming video to another is machine very smooth (which it wasn't with Jaunty). For me its fixed a lot of the niggles that I had with Jaunty.
As for the install process. I clicked the network upgrade option and came back 30 minutes later, all done!
I wouldn't put it past MS to post a extra problems to make Ubuntu look bad.
I've upgraded my laptop and desktop both without a hitch. I was especially pleased when the upgrade _fixed_ my X startup problems on the laptop!
Downers so far are the new login screen, and I can't seem to find the battery monitor any more - neither of which are a big deal.
Upgraded using package manager on 4 machines, from a 400Mhz Celeron with 128MB up to the 3.3GHz Core2 4GB with each having different chipsets (AMD, Intel, nvidia) , graphics (ATI/AMD, nvidia, intel, neomagic) and RAID (none, RAID0, RAID5) configurations. 2xXubuntu, 2xUbuntu and not a single problem on any of them unless you count the addition of a couple of packages and services that I didn't want.
That was not the case with 9.04 or any previous version so it gets a big thumbs up from me!
Hardy Heron 8.04 is still the current long term support (LTS) version. For production machines and corporate use, or if you don't want to fool around, then the LTS is what you should be using. It offers 3 years on the desktop and 5 years on the server edition.
If you are risk averse wait until 9.10.1 at least. D'oh!
I don't even go looking until the RC is out but the installation was smooth and quick.
Clean Install, but keeping /Home, is the way to go IMHO
==========================================
I do a clean install but reuse my /home drive leaving all the .files in place.
If I have any problems I can just reinstall 9.04 again.
Oh and, of course, back up home and etc to an external USB drive.
I have separate partitions for "/" (root) 10GiB; /home 100GiB; swap 8GiB; /windows; /backup.
Set your partitions up from a LiveCD with Gparted then go the manual route in the installer options. You may want to have a run through using a virtual machine first ;)
Small issues I have had:
1. Flash is not recognizing mouse clicks in multiple situations:
Fix: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/flashplugin-nonfree/+bug/410407/comments/143
2. Video is tinted blue after update
Fix: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gstreamer0.10/+bug/409640/comments/16
3. Karmic tries to load rt2870sta AND rt2800usb. Results in no WiFi
Fix: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/460323
Yes there are some bugs but as its FOSS you can fix them in double quick time yourself or just wait for the fix to be pushed by Ubuntu.
I've upgraded two machines, one was flawless and one had the kernel issue you mentioned, which is actually a minor bug, apparently actually caused by grub1/2 issues, fixed by reinstalling grub2:
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/grub2/+bug/449679
if you want a professionally written system, install WIndows 7.
What's the next Ubuntu going to be called ? Bovine exctrement ?
Mine's the one with a bulletproof Windows 7 DVD in it
i uograded form 9.04 on my T42, Advent 4213 netbook and my hp workstation - dx 2250
the only majpor problem i have had is with firefox and that got fixed within hours by an update.
overall it is *much* easier than installing windows and making it usable. i didnt have to go off hunting for drivers manually, i did not have reboot several times during the install etc....
my main gripe is that the update manager should support bit torrent since i have a crappy internet connection and so do ubuntu (their servers were slow slow slow)
you can get the distro by bittorrent but no the individual updates. shame but not a massive problem.
this article seems a little unbalanced to me. anyone that has early adopted a windows distro can attest to the same problems, remember xp before sp1?
Upgraded seamlessly on my 8-year old Compaq Deskpro ES - 700meg/512M ram machine. Works fine. Lan, GSM/WCDMA modem, peripherals - no problem.
Trying the same on my dual-boot IBM T30 laptop - bollox! It's got the minimum specified RAM - 256Meg, so I think that would explain why it's too busy thrashing the disk to let me actually use it. Once I could actually get in, everything worked, albeit slowly. Having said that, Windows-XP aint so pretty in that respect, either. Jaunty (9.04) works well on it, so I'll wait for the next dole cheque to get more RAM before I try to upgrade again. OK, it was upgraded about a week before the offical release date, but...I still went back to Jaunty.
(Fortunately, it's my "occasional" machine that I only use when rare websites absolutely require - and can't be fooled - using Windows)
My Asus 701 4G loves Karmic, too. Wifi? No sweat.
I wonder others are experiencing a problem with either encryption, or the new Ext4 filesystem - which I elected not to use...I'd have used ReiserFS, but as the maintainer can only be contacted by snail-mail (PC's not usually permitted in jail) I gave that a miss, too.
I, for one, welcome our new marsupial overlord.
No problems for me installing KK. Although it was a clean install, which might help. Comparing to Win7, from what I've seen, that appears to need a clean install too to save hairpulling and general early greying.
So much of a muchness?
It is a pity that we focus on the negative in this country. What we need to remember here is that we get Ubuntu for free - yes that's correct FREE. Perhaps we should look at what has been achieved with Ubuntu since the earliest version. Windows - easy - don't make me laugh. I am a Systems Admin with a mixed environment and Windows is not without it's problems - the big difference is that we pay a lot of money for those problems. Interestingly enough, the faults are usually solved through various helpful forums which Microsoft has little if any input into. So, perhaps a little perspective would be good. Ubuntu is a fantastic offering which does pretty much what it says on the tin.
It's not surprising less than 10% of people who posted to forums had successful installs... I had successful upgrades on 2 machines and just got on with it, didn't even think about posting anything anywhere until i read this story, and this is a news site rather than a support forum - people visiting support forums usually only do so when they need support.
I didn't have all the problems people have had, but it was still a huge dissappointment.
After trying win and mac offerings recently to boot into X and find that my nvidia graphics are not drivered correctly and that the graphics are far from crisp clean and inviting. Extra cr*p like empathy and evolution (can i choose not to have them?).
.... and its still BROWN!!!!!
I have tried most linuxs but stuck with debian then ubuntu for a while now, but too many times have the frequent release cycle of ubuntu produced something that is little better than last time and not addressing big issues like AUDIO and GRAPHICS.... basic stuff in desktop computing!
I've done three clean installs and one upgrade. The upgrade and one of the clean installs were flawless but the two cleans onto Intel 845-based systems have blank screen start up problems and random display freezes. When they do run, video performance is terrible. Something has gone severely wrong here - not enough testing.
Well apart from the Parallels Tools not being compatible.
I installed it to see if the hype was justified. Unfortunately it isn't. Linux is still only for techies with time on their hands. For Joe Public; stick with Windoze or OS-X
I did a clean install of 9.10 onto a Samsung NC10 which already had Windows XP. I did a repartition of the hard drive and have Kuddly Koala and XP happily dual booting.
Can't see what all the fuss is about.
Isn't Ubuntu just supposed to work? Oh, sorry ... that's Glock.
There's a good reason why many ( most ? ) people buy their PC's with OS pre-installed, unfortunately Linux doesn't have the advantage MS does.
Ubuntu Jaunty (9.04) was the first which installed flawlessly and worked out the box for me. I was starting to shift in my negative opinion of Linux but it appears I may have been premature.
What the Linux community frequently seems to forget is that even experienced techies aren't necessarily experienced Linux users and are quickly out of their depth. Fixing Windows issues may be second nature after years of doing that but Linux is a whole new ball game.
Maybe everything will be sorted by the time we get to Pouting Paris.
Good to see The Reg showing they are not biassed to Linux (gives alot more cred to the good stuff).
On the other hand my Kubuntu upgrade 9.04 to 9.10 was flawless.
Your milage may vary of course, depending on how fancy your setup (encypted hard discs, 64bit systems etc).
Mind you, comments about waiting for a month are pretty useless as the downloadable image will be the same as it is now so if you cant get an initial boot from which to update, you will still be stuck. A clean install is probably the way to go if you are having problems. Just copy all your files to an external disc and copy them back afterwards. It's really not that hard.
On the other hand you could wait for Linux Mint 8, which will be based on Ubuntu 9.10, due in November. Perhaps they will have smoothed things a little, plus you will get the benefits of preinstalled codecs, flash, thunderbird email and a really nice non-brown look.
To @ Cosmin Roman - you know what? I have to agree that it's all got a bit too easy recently - I learnt alot more when it was more difficult!
Did an upgrade from 9.04 (Jaunty) to 9.10 (Karmic) without any major problems whatsoever. In fact I doubted if it had actually worked. My GNOME desktop looked the same as it did, as did everything else. There were a few minor niggles that confirmed the upgrade had indeed worked and I was running 9.10 with minor teething problems but everything I normally run on a day-to-day routine worked as they did with no show-stoppers.
All I can say to everyone is that make sure you have your system fully updated by manually running the Update Manager and dong a Check. Apply all updates before attempting the upgrade to 9.10.
One 32-bit upgrade, one 64-bit upgrade. Both needed new Nvidia drivers, apart from that just fine... The kernels are both 2.6.31-14.
ps - not a linux fanboi - this is podsted from my XP laptop
Not had any major issues when installing on my Acer Aspire 2920. I was running 9.04 and upgraded to 9.10 Alpha and then through the Alphas to the Beta and RC, not had any problems.
I did however backup and do a complete reinstall of 9.10 when the full version was released (mainly so I could start fresh without Vista dual booting). It's working fine here, Intel graphics performance is MUCH better. Compiz is useable (although I tend to disable it, eye candy is nice to show off but I'm not fussed about wobbly windows).
My Vodafone mobile broadband USB stick also works better now too, the MicroSD card is detected (in 9.04 it wasn't picked up).
The only issue I've had so far is with Ubuntu 9.10 on an older Athlon XP PC with NVidia MCP2 and onboard Geforce 2 MX graphics. The NVidia driver was unstable and the default free driver limitied the display to 800x600. I've read up that there are similar problems on other distros too. In the end I fitted a GeForce FX5200 which works fine (and frees up some more memory).
As a big fan of Ubuntu I think it's a much better release, but I am also of the mindset that they could do with a bit more testing, I've had major problems with other releases of Ubuntu (usually fixable, but sometimes show stoppers) and I think maybe even another month of testing the RC might make a difference.
Rob
Biggest complaint is that it is not easy to find the 64bit desktop variant on the website.
Installed it on my test rig -AM2 4200, no problems whatever.
C'mon Gavin - we know you're only a hack but you're a hack on El Reg: engage brain before uttering such nonsense! Anyone who has *worked* in a production environment and is responsible for maintaining the delivery of a service for more then five minutes knows that the last thing you do is download and install the latest version of anything as soon as it's released - except in a *test* environment.
Yes it appears that there are a few issues with Karmic and those that have been burned are those "must have" jockeys whose jaw drops at the paint job rather than kicking the tyres and looking under the hood. The "most technical of the technical" know that when the soft and smelly hits the rotating and blowy on a live system one's time appreciating one's favourite hop-flavoured beverage at the local hostelry can be severely curtailed.
<smug>
I'm certainly not the most technical but I only moved from 8.04/SuSE 10.1 to 9.04 Desktop & Server a couple of weeks ago. When the dust settles on Krazy Koala in a month or so I might stick it on a test box to see if the tyres squeal and the suspension is improved when I take it for a spin. Or I might be in the pub entirely undisturbed by anxieties about long evenings at the CLI resuscitating X.
</smug>
Happy Tuxing!
Have upgraded one desktop and one server. One issue I've encountered was the version of Tomcat I'd been using was no longer in their repository. No issues at all with the desktop even with Nvidia drivers.
Just ran the upgrade last night when pushing up the Zs and it worked a treat on a Toshiba Tecra M9 - even managed not to clobber the other OSs on the laptop - OpenSolaris and SXCE - which is more than Windows managed.
and I'm with AC @05:41 GMT - Linux **** 2.6.31-14-generic #48-Ubuntu SMP Fri Oct 16 14:05:01 UTC 2009 x86_64 GNU/Linux
Perhaps the early adopters who reported the kernel version issues didn't to let debconf deal with their GRUB config files or elected to do it themselves and forgot?
