back to article Lloyds TSB's online banking system shows no love for Firefox

Many Lloyds TSB business customers who use Firefox as their default browser are currently unable to access their online banking accounts. Several readers have contacted The Register telling us that the service is throwing up an error message when they attempt to logon to the site via the world's second most popular browser. …

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Anonymous Coward

@Firefox will work with IE Tab

Do you know how IE tab works?

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Anonymous Coward

Get rid of Lloyds, not Firefox...

In my direct experience, Lloyds is the worst bank ever .... and in the UK today, that's saying something.

Their online security is marked by far more hype than actual expertise. I wouldn't bank online with them any more with ANY browser.

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Works fine on FF 3.5

Just read your article, opened a new tab and logged on fine to Lloyds Banking using Win XP / FF 3.5....

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FF3.5.3 on XP Pro SP3 fully updated today

Works fine with NoScript active - they don't need script privileges.

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Safari 4.0.3

Didnt like that, so I changed the user agent to IE8 (in develop menu), and it worked.

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@ R Callan

I use ".asp" extensions on a web site I designed. Doesn't mean the server's a Microsoft one, though! It's ordinary Apache 2 on Debian, but with a mod_rewrite rule that changes "foo.asp" transparently to "main.php?content=foo". And "main.php" then does different things depending on $_GET["content"] .

Anyway, what's the point of internet banking? I go to a bank for precisely two reasons; either to pay money in, or to draw it out. TTBOMK neither of those are possible over the Internet.

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DJV

I thought it was just me!

I've got several computers and 2 of them (my main XP PC and Win7) stopped working under Firefox last week (though another older one running XP still worked fine). I tried a system restore to a few days previously but that didn't fix anything.

On the XP machine I then backed up my settings (using MozBackup) and completely uninstalled Firefox including deleting any directories it left behind. Then I did a reinstall of Firefox from scratch and tested LloydsTSB again - no problem. However, I noticed that if I restored all of the backup then the same problem returned but just restoring the essentials (bookmarks and saved passwords) it worked ok. I then manually re-installed all my add-ons and checked the LloydsTSB site after each install but nothing broke it. The Win 7 one (which is actually running under VirtualBox on the main XP PC) is still borked - but as this is an unlicensed, unactivated test I'm not too worried!

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Pint

Kaspersky issue

Firefox 3.5.3 is OK with TSB site, the only issue I have is that the virtual keyboard in Kaspersky has stopped working with Firefox. It still works with IE though. Kaspesky claim to be aware of the problem but aren't doing a fat lot to sort it.

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RE:

Re : David Barrett

"There are a few people above commenting that ...the Decent HBOS systems are being dumped in favour of the ancient LTSB ones... I dont think (from looking at the site) that this is correct."

The few remaining people working in Halifax would tell you otherwise - HBOS kit is being dumped in favour of replacment by Lloyds. Timescale is also ridiculously short (about 2 years, last I heard)

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Go

Lloyds and TSB

I used to work at a Lloyds TSBs call centre a few years ago and it likely boils down to when Lloyds bought the TSB. TSB had a whizzy real-time consumer focused system, whereas Lloyds had an ancient clunky batch-processed system. As a result, when they first got internet banking the LTSB service would shut down between midnight and 4am while the Lloyds bit processed the days' transactions.

Lloyds then migrated all the 'Lloyds Heritage' personal accounts about 6 or so years ago onto the TSB system, but it wasn't able to handle some of the 'business-specific' functionality that the Lloyds system used so they kept it on for business customers.

As far as I am aware the business and consumer units are developed separately, and as a personal customer I haven't had any problems with the LTSB service. Quite the opposite - the system is quick, you can download statements, navigate around it while using the 'back' button (that so annoys me about Smile) and don't need that damn card reader that Barclays and others are so fond of. I've tried Opera, Firefox and Chrome on the personal banking service and it works fine. Viva TSB!

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@AC 10:47

I've no doubt the TSB had some antique equipment, but I don't think it's entirely fair to blame them for the current state of things: as an ex-TSB customer, I noticed the overall quality of service take several steps backwards when Lloyds took over.

As for the current problem, I noticed that I was unable to login until I cleared my cookies & cache, then it was fine. But still unimpressed with the degree of incompetence both in that I had to do that, and that they claim Firefox is unsupported and are encouraging customers to compromise their security by using IE. Then again, I don't think I can really expect too little from a company that thinks that running a financial system on Windows is a good idea.

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not working?

worked for me yesturday... again, previously used IE , chrome , firefox , safari(yeuch) and not had any probs..... just tried again, firefox on mac (3.5.3).. works okay ?

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Mr

Works fine for me too:

Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.9.1.3) Gecko/20090924 Firefox/3.5.3

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The worst thing is...

They will end up modding the site so it works specifically in (say) IE, Firefox and Safari; and when new browsers catch on (Chrome?) it won't work again. If they just kept it simple and built it according to standards, it would work in anything *and* be futureproof. Why does nobody get this? Christ.

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@A J Stiles 13.27

Why on earth would you do that? What is wrong with displaying .php ?

You can use mod_rewrite to get stuff like $_GET vars so if you just want to hide what script language you use why not do what java does and put things like .do and .random etc

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Coat

Those that do not remember history...

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2002/10/23/online_banks_retailers_shut_out/

There Lloyds were described as "penguin huggers" which while not strictly true certainly indicates that they were not dependent upon peculiar Microsoft code then. This still seems to be the case.

As someone that has banked online with them since 1999 with various flavours of SuSE/openSUSE I can tell you the site has only ever got more Linux friendly (now even the instant messaging thingy works on Konqueror whereas I had to use Netscape and then FF for that.) I only used Konqueror out of obduracy, it always worked flawlessly with Firefox.

While I'm no great fan of any help desk, when I was badgering them about the IM thingy I did get a "we do know what you're talking about but we've got no plans" drop dead, as opposed to "use IE" drop dead.

For those of you questioning security, more recently Lloyds survived a Which? examination

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/08/27/online_banking_fraud_survey/

last time I looked they were on NT4 - which if I recall correctly, along with 2000, was a least worse Microsoft option.

I hold no shares in Lloyds, they haven't kidnapped my teddy bear, they have seriously annoyed me in so many ways, but if you are having a problem with their internet banking it seems to me that it's a PEBKAC thing or the more delightfully offensive 1 - D 10-T problem

Mines the one with the horse in the pocket (can we have two logos please? If it were OK for Monty...)

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Ok here

FF3.5.4 on XP, works fine.

(and as it happens I've never had any problems with Lloyds, but then I've never had much money for them to loose)

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Like Many others

Working just fine here for me too. FF 3.5.3, Win 7 RC.

As much as I have reason not to like LTSB, I think this isn't quite as imple as it appears if some FF works and not others. The support people.. who knows. A bunch of tech support lie to me all the time. Which would be less worrying if they werent my employer.

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Anonymous Coward

The usual bo**ocks about IE being insecure...

For all those spewing the same rant about "compromising their security by using IE", educate yourself a bit better. IE8 in secure mode is more secure than your beloved, holier than holy FF.

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@ Andrew K Jones

Thanks for the private browsing mode tip, saves me having to boot a Windows VM to boot IE. ;/

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FAIL

another red fail icon from me

FAIL

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Firefox compatibility

I have had the same problem with an on line stockbroker, which only supports IE. I have made a formal complaint to the EU. There is absolutely no point in forcing Microsoft to unbundle IE from Windows 7, if competitor browsers are not allowed. I suspect that their code is suspect so that it is not robust

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They are still in my good books

for replacing my soggy Communicator 9500 with a nice shiny Blackberry Bold :)

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Broken for me

I'd noticed this a day or two ago with 3.5.3 and Win XP. In my case I enter my username and password, click continue and it returns me to the same username / password prompt screen, sans password with no error message or explanation. If I switch to the IE rendering engine with IE Tab all is fine.

Another reason to leave Lloyds...

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Working fine here

I use FF 3.5.3 on XP SP3 with NoScript running, and have no problems whatsoever, and that is on two desktops and two laptops, all running the same OS with NoScript.

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Bye Bye Competent Banks

Stopped working for me. When I rang the help desk the bloke was surprised that Firefox wasn't working so I suspect it's just IT's complete incompetence - so common sadly today in big organisations.

Don't think this is a one-off. Trying to get to the help desk was an heroic effort, involving getting trapped in loops. Not long ago they announced you couldn't add a new payee without getting a mobile phone confirmation - great idea except a few days later I added one in a few minutes without the promised check. I rang back to say "Thanks for adding that, but you weren't supposed to" but they gave me some bollxx about "Ooo. our mysterious process does work in the background you know." But of course it didn't.

It's very sad. They were a good bank but are being killed by IT - no doubt offshoring or outsourcing; they usually finish off IT departments.

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Grenade

Banking insecurity

FF&LTSB Works for me too. Does it maybe only lock out old firefoxes or FF on Macs?

UK online banking can't compare to European standards anyways. 10 years ago they used transaction numbers (TAN) on the continent. You'd get a sheet of 50. The online banking would ask you for a specific one before any action, and when the sheet was used up you'd get a new sheet. And no one had to be afraid of trojans while banking. Too smart an idea to travel 1hour on a plane in 10 years?

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Anonymous Coward

What really happened...

Here's the low down...

About a year ago LTSB decided to outsource all their internet development and support to Indian consultancies. There is a nominal UK presence of old staff but they are not allowed to develop, are on the whole overworked and demoralised after watching their team-mates being offloaded.

What you're seeing today is the latest cock-up which has occurred since outsourcing happened - DeepThought outlined another classic above which was hailed as a great success by the management - but failed miserably first time and has yet to be rolled out fully months after it was supposed to be. There are many, many more examples but I suspect I've said enough already.

The best bit - all indications are outsourcing is the future for the combined LTSB HBOS so keep looking out for more cock-ups ,a ton more UK cash in offshore consultancy pockets, and what's the odds on some large scale UK IT redundancies next year?

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WTF?

Huh!

What are you people on about, Vista 64, with Firefox 3.5.3, NoScript and Adblock work fine, with the Lloyds site.

JaitcH,

If a site chocks on reserved characters, like '<' and '>' character, in entered text, then their developers should be tarred and feathered for being too lazy, incompetent, and unprofessional, to user/write HTML/Javascript escaping/unescaping code; it isn't hard, done it myself, and not even for a major site!

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W3C

Nobody's mentioned the real problem. These sites aren't W3C compliant. If they were, then any W3C compliant browser would work.

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Bunch of muppets...

I had a text from them (well, presumably them as it said it was from "LLOYDSTSB") yesterday saying: "Identity fraud may be closer than you think. When times are hard, don't make it easier. Visit www.lloydstsb.com/security ".

Amusingly, if you actually follow that link (and please don't think I'm THAT stupid to click on the text messge - I manually typed it in!) you end up on a page with a link to their Online security http://www.lloydstsb.com/security/online_security.asp page where they say:

"At Lloyds TSB we’re committed to making your online experience as safe as possible. So in order to keep yourself secure online it is extremely important that you:

Never take emails or text messages at face value, even if they look like they have come from your bank. Remember – a legitimate Lloyds TSB email/text message will:

– never direct you to a web page that asks you to type in security or log on information,

– always quote the last four digits of your account,

– always greet you personally using your title and surname.

Never click on any links within an email or text message if you are in any doubt about its source."

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Unhappy

LLoyds TSB and Firefox

Unbelievable - maybe this is when I finally move my account from Lloyds !

Polly

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FTW

Lloyds FTW. And it does look like the personal side of Lloyds online banking is being moved to either the HBOS or TSB system - as debits/credits are now appearing in real time rather than being refreshed at 4:00 in the morning.

I have never had a problem with lloyds, they are great. Their security has not been amazing in the past, but with the recent additions of chip + pin machines on the counter I am feeling a lot happier, and their website requires a numeric username that is issued by lloyds, an alphanumerical password and then three charectors from the accounts security phrase. I think personally we need to be issued with USB hardware key's as an additional layer of security.

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Happy

works here

Windows XP Home, SP3, Sunbelt VIPRE, Firefox 3.5.3, with NoScript, Adblock Plus,Ghostery, and RequestPolicy addons. cookie setting disabled by default with Lloyds in the site exceptions list. NO problems at Lloyds TSB site. FF set to clear history etc at closedown. Ghostery set to block Omniture and WebTrends tracking on the Lloyds site (as well as Adsense, Google analytics and Google Adsense here).

Of the banking sites I use, I find Lloyds TSB the easiest and most reliable. Hate Halifax and Alliance and Leicester sites.

Maybe they are detecting old/insecure browsers in which case I take my hat off to them.

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Anonymous Coward

Llyds works OK here....

Firefox 3.5.3 works perfectly OK here with Lloyds TSB.....

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Lloyds TSB

A person complained 'what's the use in internet banking?'.

To those disabled, it's a great resource.

To the not-disabled,

it's the pleasure of not writing checks,

of not having to stamp and mail it.

If I had to write checks out,

it would take away from the rest of life.

I think internet banking is here to stay.

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Works fine from safari on iPhone

But it works fine from my iPhone.

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FAIL

Lloyds went down the crapper...

... when they merged with TSB.

I remember the service I used to get when I was a student and for a few years afterwards. Lloyds were excellent. Then they started consolidation when they merged with TSB and the personal service started to disappear. As an example, I remember an occasion when I arranged for a change in overdraft which they agreed to do, but didn't process it on the computer. When I went over my old overdraft limit they sent my account to another unit which refused to do anything until it was back in order - despite it only being there because of a mistake by LTSB. The branch said they could do nothing, the account was no longer under their control. They then cancelled all my direct debits on me and I ended up getting a total of £1200 of bank charges before I got it all sorted out. It then took me over a year to get that money back. That was a full month's salary for me at the time and money I could ill afford to have had stolen from me. Eventually it took a small claims court action to get a proper refund.

As soon as I got my money back I immediately moved my accounts, and LTSB see nothing of my money...

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