Apple not up to the multitasking?

Now Apple are a phone/pc/laptop/server/Ipod builder, Desktop OS/Phone OS/Server OS creator and all round music peddlar, they're finally biting off more than they can chew.

It just seems like the shotgun approach with the Apple brand (get a glowing apple logo on anything as of yesterday), the iAnything approach if you will, has led to a slight decrease in quality due to the fact that apple staff are most likely hugely over stretched. Apple have 35,000 employees including the staff for their nearly 300 retail locations. This doesn't leave a lot for the product design and support of such a massive range of products anymore.

Supporting this are the recent glitches in the iPhone software update that were widely reported. This problem with Snow Leopard as well as the fact that last year Apple had to tweak Mobile/Desktop OS releases to allow for the programmers to switch from one to the other.

As a non-fanboi, this is a rare thing for me to say, but hopefully Apple sort out any potential for bad products being created as they have an excellent user base who are loyal. However this loyalty will disappear when they all start loosing their documents for random reasons, or even worse when someone writes a serious virus for Mac, then all the users realise maybe Steve wasn't right to say the Mac was built as invincible to threats....

By the way, fully prepared for the fanboi onslaught from this one.....

Fail to prepare? Prepare to fail.....

Call me Mr Paranoid but after watching Windows users lose data time and time again with security breaches, malware and just plain old hardware breakdowns they hardly need the OS to start losing it for them too.

As an "OhsosmugApplefanboi" I backup manually to internal and external drives on a very regular basis. I don't even trust automatic backup systems. 5 HDDs 2 just for backup, now that's really smug.

Leopard worked fine for all the time I used it apart from a nasty Time Machine bug which meant it wouldn't roll back more than about 2 days when I first tried to use it. Never tried again.

I don't trust a Mac OS to safeguard my data more than any other but I use it in preference due to the lack of problems it gives me compared to Windows.

Strangely enough when I migrated to Snow Leopard I kept my original Leopard build on another drive and still do to this day. Early adopters need to be careful whatever your platform.

Stupid is as stupid does.

Why Paris? Even Macs can have a blonde moment......

Fail

With such a small user base and closed beta is it a surprise this stuff gets through.

There's a (Big) LOLcat for that...

I'z in yr diskz nomming yr docz.

Backup so easy....

Anyone losing 250G of data with no backup is an idiot. As many have pointed out a USB connected external drive is very cheap.

Apple even makes it stupidly easy. Plug the just purchased external drive into you Mac and it says "Do you want to use this disk for back up?" If you say yes then that is your job done. Time Machine will do hourly backups for the day, Daily backup for as long as you have disk space. These are incremental backups and you can easily get access to older versions of files through the cheesy but very easy to use Time Machine interface. So "You lost 250G with no back up." What an idiot you are...

Oh and to those saying why have a guest account on your Mac, well there are a couple of good reasons. Firstly the Guest account can be configured to give 'borrowers' no access to your data at all. That is how I have mine setup. If a work colleague needs to borrow my machine then it is fine for them to do so with out them getting access to the rest of my stuff. Another good reason is to let a thief access the computer so that my Mac tracking software can tell the police where my computer is. I use undercover from orbicle for that. So there are good resons to have a guest account...

@JWS

What a self righteous moron you are! Most people know how to switch a computer on and browse the web or send emails. Why, just because you're a geek who reads the register do you think that others have the same interest. What many on here fail to realise is, most people couldn't give a monkeys how their computers work, they just want to use them.

Also, you look down on those that appreciate aesthetics, why? Do we need pretty cars or furniture? No, but many studies have shown that our environment has an effect on us, positively or negatively and this includes computers. Can I build my own computer much more cheaply than I can buy a Mac? Of course, in the same way I can do my own DIY and car maintenance, however, I can't be arsed, I'd much rather be going away for the weekend and enjoying a beautiful place, or spending time with my loved ons doing something fun. Just because you want to install a new graphics card and brag about how many polygons it can draw doesn't mean most people do.

Arrogant tossers like you really P me off as you are unable to relate to NORMAL people who have made different choices to you.

Right, I feel better for that :-)

Another HD is a backup? Against what?

For everyone that says just plug in another HD to backup, that is fine as long as you are backing-up to prevent loss if your mail HD fails.

BUT

If you are backing up to prevent the OS (or a virus etc.) from deleting all your files, I don´t see how that helps because:

1. You are relying on the same OS to faithfully copy all the files to your backup HD - and this is the OS that you don´t trust to look after the files anyway. (The fact that it didn´t also wipe all the data on the TimeMachine backup at the same time was just luck)

2. You are relying on the same OS (or virus etc.) to not delete (or corrupt) all the data on your backup HD when you plug it back in to copy it back to replace the data that just got wiped. Again, this is the same OS that you don´t trust.

I don´t trust backing up to a HD because in an instant any program on your system can render the entire backup almost useless. Unless your backup HD has a hardware write protect, it can go the same way as the original data.

PS. Just because you're not paranoid, doesn't mean that they are not out to get you.

Who really backs up?

I'm with Charles on this one, I deal with home users all the time, few have a decent backup strategy and I'm often left to pick up the pieces. I always promote backup solutions to new customers. Time machine makes the whole process so simple.

Not the only bug

Don't forget to mention that Snow Leopard breaks firewire and spontaneously ejects mounted external drives, often destroying the data.

Could it be...

The BSLfH????

I can hear the distant laughter from the data room as the home dir vanishes....

@Charles Manning

What I was going to say to you when I first read your comment has already been said many times above. So I'll just say what all the above were probably too decent and kind to say to you, and that is:

You're a twat.

Comparisons

All OSes have their good points and bad points.

Trying to dicksize them (especially on a tech site) is about as much use as trying to decide who is the prettiest female russian shot putter.

Finally I can say...

Just use Windows.

Let me get this right...

So only users who both do purposely enable the guest account, actually used it on their OWN machine, and who don't have backups of their systems are effected? This isn't a bug, it's a stupid user detector!

Do NOT use the guest account, MAKE a unique account for guests. This is PC 101 stuff guys. Apple even makes it kind of obscure to turn on that account in the first place, and only people who have half a clue about PCs would even know what a guest account was, and should by entension know NOT to use it.

Also, back up EVERYTHING regularly, and keep at least one of those backups OFF-SITE for your critical data.

Worse, Apple even made backups easy, all one needs is a drive and no manual configuration, or a mobile.me account... Backups are so easy they're practically by accident!

People screaming about this are no different from PC users screaming that they got a virus by connecting a machine directly to the internet with no updates since SP1, no antivirus, and went searching for pics of Jessica Alba nude...

Great, it's a bug! Sound the panic alarms, blame Apple for their crap OS, scream paranoid lines like "how can you trust backups from the same OS that can fail," all Mac users are doomed!!! STFU.

1) explain how to get a backup WITHOUT using the OS to do so...

2) bugs that cause data failure don't also effect the backup data, which is on another drive, in another file format compressed into container files, managed by a seperate application, and not tied to the same code at all.

3) The has never been a single OS X virus in the wild for any version of OS X ever. not one.

4) It took weeks for this bug to come to light, with millions of 10.6 users...

I know I should not laugh...

At this but damm this stich in my side hurts ;)

@Michael C

"The has never been a single OS X virus in the wild for any version of OS X ever. not one." - who needs one with Apple's programmers!!!

You are wrong of course, initial viruses were reported back in 2006.

http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/industry_sectors/technology/article731986.ece

Bit of a flaw

All fanboi-bating and trolling aside, at a more technical level this does seem to be more of a series of design flaws rather than a simple bug.

There should be several layers of code, from the UI to the underlying file system, that would raise an error and prevent the overwrite of a user's home directory. The fact that a single error in the logon code CAN delete a home directory without jumping through several security hoops is more than worrying.

Try to write code in XP or Vista to delete your Documents directory and the OS will immediately and quite rightly tell you to fuck right off.

popcorn at the ready...

The next few weeks will be fun what with the imminent release of 7 and Ubuntu 9.10. Cannot wait to see you retards tearing lumps out of each other over an operating system. It'd be funny if it wasn't so tragic. Anybody else loving the irony that is this lot calling users 'Lusers"?

Defense or criticism?

All these back and forwards "shoulda made a backup" comments. I'm struggling to tell whether they're defending Apple or criticising the user?

Fair enough, no back up is not the smartest move in the world, but a "feature" that willingly eats all your user data is just unacceptable. As for "guest" accounts being bad, why? I often have people at my place and want to use the internet. I leave a guest account. It's not convoluted to set one up, in fact it's on the same page as creating a normal account.

Bear in mind, guest is meant to have no privileges and shouldn't be allowed to even *read* user files, let alone lose them all. And doesn't it make you wonder what else could trigger this magical event?

@Lord Lien

"dime bar"

Ahhh. Memories. Good to see that little gem hasn't been lost to history.

Um ...

I'm an Apple owner, and while I love the things, there's a reason I never get version 1.0 of anything. This goes back to a Buick my parents bought decades ago. (All new features! Great new ways to do everything! And you're paying top dollar to be the guinea pig!)

Also, who the flip does this without backing up first? A 250GB drive is, what, $100 tops, and you get Time Machine with OS X. That's so simple that even a NASCAR fan or an MCSE can figure it out in less than a minute.

That being said, this is one of the strangest darn bugs I've ever heard of. Seriously, has anyone else ever heard of something like this?

@AC 12:21

"You are wrong of course, initial viruses were reported back in 2006."

You do know the difference between a trojan and a virus right? Or do you have the same technical skill as the Times reporter in your linked article?

Ah...

Sounds like a poor ignorant sod who shouldn't really be let loose on anything as complex as a computer. They don't back up their machine before upgrading the OS. Not only that, but the operating system gives them a rather nice automated backup program, and they don't think to use it. But of course, like wearing seat belts, no-one really thinks the crash is ever going to happen to them.

I picked up a 1TB drive at PC World for under 70 quid a couple of weeks back: loads of space for Time Machine backups there. And I do a drive copy every week as well, just in case something horrible happens to the TM disk.

I've had problems with Macs, PCs, Unix boxes, VAXen, the lot... they're all out to get you, and the only thing you can do is to try to keep your data from being eaten as best you can :-(

Time machine!

So they lost data... Even though OSX has Time Machine (Backup utill) built in, and what with it being piss-easy to use, well, they deserve it really...

Egg on the face

"The World's most advanced OS"

You'll forgive me if I "think different" about that then.

Maybe it's Apple's latest feature to protect the users data from malware that acts in a not too dissimilar way to a female cat eating it's kittens if it feels they're in danger.

Shit happens, but it's good to see egg on the face of that smug twat Jobs.

Ha ha ha

Simple solution, bin Mac OSX and install something that works, like Windows. You'll even find a bunch of applications that you couldn't use before that you can use now.

Out of interest though, which retard implemented some code that deletes an entire user profile without asking anyone? Stop the guest account from writing to the main partition; or delete its contents to a recycle bin. But don't just chomp the lot without asking - whichever software retard wrote that code deserves never to work in the industry again.

Combined with the nice iPhone bricking update that recently came out, this isn't Apple's month is it? What do you expect though from a company that puts looking pretty ahead of everything else.

err....

lol?

@Christian Berger

...can you detail exactly how keeping your home directory on a RAID5 volume would prevent the OS bug from deleting its contents?

I love all these smartarse comments - this is an OS bug, not a hardware flaw. All OSs have bugs, this one is particularly painful if it hits you, but is also somewhat avoidable if you methodically duplicate your data. On my home Mac the important home dir folders (pics, music) are merely aliases that point to remote volumes, but I've no idea if this measure would protect them from a poorly understood OS bug.

For gawd's sake.

I knew the fanbois/antifanbois would have "fun" with this one.

Granted, I'd be cheesed off if I did an upgrade and it wiped my data but blimey, it happens. Sometimes it happens even without an upgrade. Even my Granny knows not to attempt upgrades without backing up first.

80 quid for a 1 TB external drive. Fire up TimeMachine, which is backup done so properly that even my Dad can use it (and he does literally struggle to send text messages), and you need never suffer lost data again. It doesn't take any time, it just happens in the background. It's bloody marvellous. Apple give them the tools to help them recover if stuff like this does happen, and then they complain anyway. Windows users have an excuse, they have to pay for backup software or do it manually. Apple users cannot be excused such foolishness.

Not a fanboi by the way, just someone with common sense.

Three fundamental truths

1.) The grim reaper WILL find you one day.

2.) The Tax man WILL find you one day.

3.) All O/S will contain bugs

Finally...

My decision is made...

I'm not buying a mac..

Fanboi's seem to forget to backup...

Didn't they release a new time machine recently? Advertising?!?

Black helicopters incoming!!!

@Sarah Bee:

There's a higher than average incidence of Autism Spectrum Disorders in the ICT field, so the obsessive behaviour seen in IT-related public forums—including El Reg—isn't all that surprising.

@Everyone else:

If you're one of the many who jumped on the guy for not backing up his files, you're part of the problem: It's easy to convince people to change their behaviour *after* they've been shown the error of their ways. A good teacher can convince his pupils of their wisdom *before* the damage occurs.

To the VistaMobile.

Oh snap, take that Ballmer, Jobs is stepping on your bedding plants.

After such a cockup Macs should sell like mad.

Timing

With Microsoft presumably about to make a big push on Windows 7 are we going to see more and more 'Mac's not all that' new stories?

What are the odds on a proper Apple flavoured malware or two making an appearance this month or next?

@Sean Timarco Baggaley

Backing up a mac is not a BEHAVIOR change, it;s simply wether or not you have an external HDD plugged in or not. It's a compelte "set and forget" backup system that litterally takes a single click on time to turn on. There is no behavior other than buying the frelling HDD, which should have been convincingly conveyed by either the sales rep, the OS online help, or prompts from the Mac upon first boot.

This isn't 1990 where people were frigging clueless about anything PC related. People have heard the words "backup" by now, and understand the idea of having data on a machine that requires protection. All it takes is a simple question of "how?" which Apple answered in the most simple possible way by making it a CORE advertised feature of the OS and major selling point. If you bought a Mac without seeing the feature page highlighting this feature, missed the OS prompts, had a clueless sales guy, and never asked the question "how do i back it up" YET STILL KNEW ENOUGH TO TURN ON THE GUEST ACCOUNT AND CONFIGURE MULTIPLE USERS, I call bullshit.

Some superb offerings!

I have to admit, this thread was great. A compilation of the best posts so far!

Need more disc space? #

There an app for that!

By James O'Brien

The World's most advanced OS"

You'll forgive me if I "think different" about that then.

Shit happens, but it's good to see egg on the face of that smug twat Jobs.

If you put a million fanbois in a room each with a keyboard with only two keys, a zero and a one, how long will it take them to reproduce the lost 250GB by repeatedly slamming their heads into the keys?

Thank you very much, chuckled all day, mostly thanks to the first one!

@Christian Berger

"Otherwise Apple would include the option to install 3 or more harddrives in the case so people can run a RAID 5."

...Funny thing that - my Mac has 4 hard drives - in Raid 5 configuration...

@Sean Timarco Baggaley

"If you're one of the many who jumped on the guy for not backing up his files, you're part of the problem: It's easy to convince people to change their behaviour *after* they've been shown the error of their ways."

Eh? We're talking about the tech equivalent of knowing to look both ways before crossing the street. Hands up who has never lost data and doesn't know anyone who ever lost data? Even my 65 year old mother knows she should do backups ...

With all Apple's promotion of Time Machine over the past couple of years you'd have to be a totally ignorant user to *not* know how easy it is to back up your data.

@Will 12

"Can I build my own computer much more cheaply than I can buy a Mac?"

From the sound of it, you can't. No, really.

Cause you spend weekends away and we spend weekends with.

You are only capable of point and click mate.

Right, now I feel much better too :)

@ Sarah Bee

"Take some deep breaths and remember it's only the internet. "

...but but but the internetz is serious business.

@Michael C & Magnetik

You have heard of the Darwin Awards, right? Bugger "Climate Change": wilful ignorance is a far greater threat to humanity than a very slow rise in sea levels.

This is a technology news website. Its readers are, by definition, not representative of the general public, who couldn't give a shit how the magic box works. The only reason the people *you* know might be aware of what the acronym "HDD" even means is precisely *because* YOU know them... and have therefore, presumably, *taught* them.

Are you seriously claiming that everyone on Earth now understands what every IT-related TLA means now?

I handle support for a small computer games developer and am STILL getting requests from people who want to know if their operating system of choice—"Microsoft Word 2003", according to their answer to: "Which operating system are you using?"—will run one of our games. And these are *gamers*, for f*ck's sake!

I'll believe we're all IT-savvy when I see it. I have yet to see any evidence of it in these comment threads, let alone in the real world.

Sean Timarco Baggaley

"Are you seriously claiming that everyone on Earth now understands what every IT-related TLA means now?"

Of course not. Who said they did? Just because WE type HDD doesn't mean the average Joe doesn't understand the words "external hard disk".

Oh dear, you deal with stupid gamers who don't know the name of their OS. How is that representative of how aware Apple users are of Time Machine? Apple have made a big noise about TM since before Leopard was released. Keynotes, big notices on the Apple front page, asking you to pick a backup disk when you install, adding a TM icon to the doc by default, and so forth. So, like I said, you would have to be a completely blind Apple user to not know about backing up with Time Machine.