Anyone putting off purchasing a netbook until the next-generation Atom processor, the N450, arrives in October, should expect to pay a premium thanks to the extra cost of Windows 7. Netbook makers are currently lobbying Microsoft to reduce the price of its upcoming operating system revision, which, DigiTimes reports, is …
They are bumping up the price of netbooks. Microsoft wants netbooks to be as close to the price of a laptop as they can get for the EXACT reason being that Joe/ann public will say " For that price I might as well get a laptop".
And so the next (more profitable) version of Windows gains acceptance.
Microsoft wanted XP retired. Netbooks gave it a fresh lease of life for a pittance. In fact I dare say Netbooks probably COST Microsoft money.
Asus wasn't stupid, they knew exactly what to do to gain leverage with MS.
Roll on the release of ARM netbooks.
I just wish AmigaOS 4 > would work on them !!
I, too, dumped Xandros on my EeePC 701, but this was because I wanted a full Linux, and although you could enable kickstart and a KDE desktop, it was sufficiently different (did anybody else try to work out how it started with you logged in).
I suspect that people who actually used the 701 as it was intended (the easy desktop) would be happy, but this was not me. Unfortunately, it was mostly people like me who saw the benefit.
What do you think is difficult with Ubuntu? If you just want mail, word processing, spreadsheet and browsing, Ubuntu is no more difficult than Windows. You do not need the command line, the update manager just works (click on Update, and off it goes) and you do not need a degree in Computer Science to use it. Evolution, Open Office and Firefox provide the basics that home users need, and they are installed by default during a standard install.
Of course, if you want Outlook, Word, Excel and Internet Explorer, then I'm afraid that Linux is probably not for you, and you have been suckered in to the Microsoft way.
I've just put Jaunty on the IBM Thinkpad T20 (700Mhz Pentium 3, 256MB memory, 20MB hard disk) that I am typing on (it was mine some time back and I am re-cycling it for one of my kids), and everything, and I mean everything, just worked from the install disk including the Belkin wireless card, identified and installed during the normal graphical install process. This is a dual boot system, and even knowing the Lenovo/IBM website, I have been unable to identify all of the correct screen and graphic drivers for Windows. And there are no applications installed. Sure seems to me like Ubuntu is easier. And for such an underpowered system (even by netbook standards), it is surprisingly usable. I can imagine that Jaunty (or an easy peasy derrivitive) is very suitable for netbooks.
I did not have to resort to the command line, or edit a configuration file once. I would have no hesitation in giving such a system to my father, who is 80. I'm sure that he would keep it up to date better than the Windows box he currently uses.
So stop spreading FUD. Ubuntu is a viable alternative already. The only thing that may stop it is a lack of technical support in the suppliers and maintainers, and this is only because there is not enough market penetration to make it viable for them to skill up. It's really a chicken-and-egg situation, which is being made more complex by the anti-competitive practices that Microsoft engage in.
Got any proof to back that up? Or are you only going by public webservers rather than servers as a whole?
Every company I've every worked for has had 90% or more of their servers running some form of Windows. The only Linux boxes I've ever seen in a bog standard SME in the UK are webservers. In fact even at large companies like Thomas Cook it was a few Solaris boxes for the main travel application, but again everything else was Windows. (Fileserver, directory services, DNS, proxy servers, mail filters etc.)
And everyone - get a grip. It's $40 from a big company! Taking inflation into account it's hardly a lot when you think XP is half that yet was developed nearly 10 years ago!!!
worked for a while
Peter Gathercole - the Xandros 'easy desktop' was never going to fly because no one really wants a frozen, nonupdateable snapshot of a system.
I'd only had the machine a few weeks when Firefox 3 came along. The experience I had with that - trying to install it, get it to work, uninstall 2.x and reclaim the (much needed) disc space afterwards, get a desktop icon connected to it - convinced me that Linux is a great system for fiddling with Linux, and if you're not in to that, forget about it.
Look I hate MS as much as anyone. So I'm begging the Linux community - get it together and produce a Linux for people who absolutely don't care about Linux. One GUI to rule them all.
I'm not arguing any different about Xandros, but if vendors shipped with Ubuntu, you would have had a different experience.
The space issue, which is a feature of the way UnionFS was used, is one of the primary problems for the EeePC. It's good for a device that will rarely change, but not for a dynamic OS. This is one reason that Asus's implementation of Xandros was just no good for those who know, but very good for those who use the device as an appliance.
I think that your comment about 'no one really wants a frozen, nonupdatable snapshot of a system' is not actually true. In know a large number of people who once a system is as they want it, will never touch the configuration again. It's just that they are not in the technical community. Many people want to use a computer as a tool, not just as a means to itself. My father is still using IE 5.5 on Windows 95 OSR2, and he has no desire to update it. It does what he wants, and I'm sure that he is not atypical of a large part of the potential netbook market. (Please note I am not suggesting Win95 on todays netbooks, just illustrating a point!)
If you doubt this, just look at the stats. on the number of un-patched Windows systems out there, and patches are easy to apply.
But this market is not even getting the opportunity to buy into netbooks, because Microsoft's behavior, and negative comments are frightening people away from Linux.
I just wish that a netbook supplier would ship a good, major Linux distribution. Then we would see whether MS have really managed to capture this market. This has to be done before the Windows 7 tax appears, as afterwards will be too late.
Why are Windows users so angry?
It's strange. Windows users seem to angry that the nasty, buggy crap they are expected to pay for again every couple of years is losing out to something quite competent that they could use for free, if only they weren't so scared of the very gentle learning curve.
Ah well. I suppose some people will go to great lengths not to have to learn something.
OSX is the way forward!
Ok, not really, but the idea is there.
Make your netbook linux distro look quite different from windows, but reduce the options to make it easy.
Of course, if the netbook manufacturer has to do their own ARM linux distro work, they may find that the windows license isn't that much more expensive and a whole lot less trouble.
Geoff Mackenzie: Actually, I'm a software developer so maybe "scared" isn't quite the word.
Regarding the desire to update our systems - I admit I wasn't thinking of your Dad. What I should have said was - people buying new computers don't want frozen, non-updateable software.
"Gentle learning cuve" - LOL LOL LOL. I started out being really pumped about the idea of cutting the cord to MS. I spent many, many hours fiddling with Xandros, reading forum posts, Linux "primers", etc. I used VI (or maybe it was one of the 5 or 6 other weird Linux text editors). I found components and open source applications. I upacked .tar files. I edited config files I installed a remote desktop server so I could work with all this junk on a full size screen.
In the end, I don't thnk I ever got Firefox 3 to work. Or maybe I just passed out from exhaustion.
You've made my point for me, nail on head - people promoting Linux tend to be unrealistic about what it takes for a new user to get up to speed. Even a technically knowledgeable user like myself.
Did my own searching since no-one else looked.
Re: cheapest netbook for kids
How much is $99 in pounds again?
Wake up !
The world has changed. The days of m$ won't allow it are nearing an end.
OK now you will argue patent laws, and that m$ own IP rights to various GNU/Linux concepts and code, and other stuff. I ask you just how it will be enforced when you consider that pretty much everyone has access to the GNU/Linux experience, and also to contribute ? How can you destroy Open Source when it is totally open, and worldwide ?
I think as others have said, buy the machine and put what you want on it. That way you pay for what you get, and you have a choice. I am sick of some m$tard dictating what I get, and bullying OEMs to that end. GNU/Linux does not aim to oust m$. The guys that write code for this get a buzz knowing that someone else likes it, or benefits from it. To use it is a choice, but at least you have one ! I have to use m$ at work, but my choice is GNU/Linux, and my home machines reflect this. For some stuff though, m$ is the only platform. For most people, Open Ofiice/Firefox/Opera does the job and runs on anything.
Please pull your head out of your a$$ and look at something different. Maybe you'll like it !?!???
Enough said !
No Geoff - they're angry at all the abuse from the Linux gimps and it tends to make people resist what you're saying. Look at your own patronising sentence at the end of your comment. After all this time i think people associate using Linux with being an arrogant arsehole. Let's face it, most people get into Linux because they hate MS and want people to think they're clever. Oh, and another reason that I remember one person admitting. "I make a good living supporting Linux". Hmm - tell people how gentle the learning curve is, so when they install it and get stuck the chances are they'll turn to you for help rather than - well, just about anyone, eh? Good for the ego and wallet. Very noble of you. I'm sure they'll be mentioning you alongside Mother Theresa in future. Perhaps even instead of her.
Please don't take Asus's implementation of Xandros as a typical Linux. It's not, and I have already said so. Try Ubuntu Jaunty Jacalope. I think you will see that it is a world apart from Xandros, and I believe, easier to install (and use, IMHO) than Windows.
Your comment about a 'new user' has two possible meanings. A new to Linux but previous Windows user will see anything that is not Windows as different and possibly difficult. A new to computing user is unlikely to see any real difference in ease of use between recent Windows or Linux.
You just have preconceptions as a Windows user. I am a long term Unix user (since before Windows, and in fact PC-Dos), and I find Windows infuriating. But I am not so blinded that I cannot see the merit in what Microsoft and their numerous partners have achieved in usability. But just because Windows is dominant in the non-server market does not make it automatically best.
Many of the core 'features' of Windows (such as drag-and-drop) were actually developed by others, and some appeared on Unix and other OS's before Windows (look at Looking Glass on Unix) You might be surprised at what the Torch Triple-X could do back in 1985, and of course Sun, and Apollo in the workstation market.
I appreciate you making the effort with Xandros. Unfortunately, it was almost certainly the wrong Linux distribution for what you wanted (as would any of the niche distributions, or in fact, the Linux in a Tivo or any embedded system). You might draw an analog between EeePC Xandros and Windows Mobile Edition. I don't think you would enjoy getting that to run Firefox 3 either.
Xandros != Linux
You're right - Xandros is particularly poor if you want/need to update your system. However, that experience is far from representative of all desktop Linux, and is most definitely different from Ubuntu, which is beautifully updatable.
I replaced the custom Xandros install on our eeePC901 with Ubuntu Jaunty (took about an hour, but mostly it was doing its thing without needing intervention, so might have been half that as I wasn't watching it at all times), and now we have an up to date, updating Firefox. No text editors, no .tar files, no config files, no command line required.
Even the WiFi connection that was a bit flaky under Xandros is solid and reconnects perfectly and automatically after sleep on Ubuntu. The only thing I'm disappointed about is that the eeePC's video hardware is too weedy to run the nice Compiz effects.
(Note: Ubuntu *Hardy* is a different kettle of fish - nothing like as polished or robust. The problems I had with our Toshiba NB100 which had Hardy pre-installed, and was laughingly marked as Ubuntu Certified drove me up the wall. All fixed with Jaunty. If your netbook comes with Hardy, do yourself a favour and replace with Jaunty)
@scared ? by jim 45
Just how knowledgeable are you ? You claim to be proficient, and yet you haven't got a clue about the difference between vi & other editors ! Clue : vi has a **VERY** different interface to everything else. :-)
Persevere with non-m$. You will be rewarded, but it may take some time. But when you get there you will be 10x more technically competent and vastly more knowledgeable & computer literate ! The automotive equivalent is that you go from saying 'would you like fries with that ?' to being able to fix most problems at the roadside.
I'm not sure why you're referring to Xandros when everyone else is referring to Ubuntu.
Xandros on eee isn't designed to be modified as many have said. So, it's going to be difficult to modify it.
Most Linux-on-netbook users will use Ubuntu or a variant, which is shockingly easy, and gives you the "gentle learning curve". Comparing ease of tinkering with Xandros to Ubuntu is like comparing ease of configuration with Windows 3.11 and XP.
A friend bought a Lenovo netbook recently. I suggested she try Easy Peasy. She's not a Linux person at all and doesn't like to tinker. We installed Easy Peasy on a flash drive as a demo and she loved it, so much that she blew off the XP she paid for. It can be very, very easy!
Do not make excuse, bundle them with Linux
I don't really care how much the OS cost as long as the product price doesn't increase much, I will still purchase it. If they feel like the OS affects the final product pricing, then they should start to think to bundle their product with Linux and make Microsoft OS as optional. I don't like to see those companies makes an excuse to increase their product price by blaming Microsoft.
" if you cannot install an OS you cannot use a computer that seems fair."
Tw@... how about if you can't rebuild an engine you can't drive a car, err no you would probably PAY (freetard) someone else to do it. That's what people do.
Oh and the reason netbooks will still be popular.... SIZE YOU CHIMPS IT'S OBVIOUSE that's why people don't buy a low end notebook with a thirsty processor and short battery life.
I'm currently dual booting between 7 and UNR and windows 7 is way better than XP i'm genuinely impressed for the first time since 2000 Pro, I can't see why it would not be worth £40 if you wan't it it's really not allot of money BUT I don't want to be forced to pay it that is my only problem.
Also on the subject of windows command line look up Powershell, every version of windows post XP (so since 2001 that's 8 years) can be fully managed from the command line, every feature of Vista and 2008 server can be managed from the command line. Get your facts right before evangelising.