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dave hands

If Apple charge "cool tax"...

Does that mean that Microsoft provide a "wanker's discount"?

Ad Fundum

What a way with words

"Blogpoodle" is the new "twatdangle". Hurrah for El Reg!

Anonymous Coward

Pointless trolling

Sorry El Reg but you are hitting rock bottom now. This isn't IT news this is pointless trolling. You deserve all the playground fanboi slanging you get with articles like this.

The specs aren't even directly comparable because the DELL has 30% faster RAM for starters. Macs are better than PCs because this mac is cheaper than this better DELL? Please. Perhaps you should have the joke alert icon on the article?

Each to their own & please don't leave the mactards or wintards in charge of the office keyboard again.

Chris

P.S. My orange has far more vitamin C than your apple and it is way cheaper and it is orange!

Gareth Irwin

why so upset

Look at the state of his website. Enough said.

Eddie

My 2p

R. Kay sounds like the sort of bloke you want to punch in the face, 5 minutes after meeting him.

After nigh on 20 years of PC/Microsoft and 2 years of Mac/OSX my analogy would be Windows is like buying a pair of cheap shoes, a size too small you see in a sale - initially nice, followed by years of pain. Mac/OSX is like paying for a pair of handmade Brogues, a little pain in the wallet maybe, but years of walking on air.

MS hardly need to pay Kay for drivel like this, 97% of computer buyers are clueless (the other 1% need DirectX 10 and build their own). The first thing most PC buyers will tell you is how cheap their PC was, followed by some specs - 320gb of memory, dual channel processors, 4meg DVD player, or whatever the PC World salesman told them.

Best 3 thing about my Macs, 1. Silence when on, 2. Hibernate properly, instant on. 3. TimeMachine.

What I hate about my remaining Windows boxes, 1. The fucking racket coming from the fans. 2. Waiting for them to boot. 3. XP throws a wobbly, just as I'm pondering doing a backup.

Bottom line is this: As a professional Web Developer, using Macs/OSX are worth at least £10k a year to me in productivity, MS would have to pay me £20k a year to use their shite, so Kay can put that in his spreadsheet next time and see how the numbers balance.

Life's too short to wear shitty shoes, drink cheap wine or use a crap OS.

The Fuzzy Wotnot

So what? Let 'em behave like a big spolit brat!

Lies, damned lies and statistics. If you bend the truth enough you make it play out any story you like.

MS last release may or may not have been good, I don't know, but the bad PR that was generated was what really counted. Average person who bought a PC a while ago, neither knows nor cares about upgrades if they can email, surf and play the odd game, sync their iPod, that's it, why spend another £150 quid to do the same thing? Crikey, some can't even be bothered to by AV or Anti-Malware protection for £25!

I just find it funny watching MS spending all their time like some playground kid, trying pick fights with everyone. Linux and Apple zealots simply want their system to be the best so they put their energy into trying to improve their systems rather than chucking chairs about!

I use both OSX and Ubuntu so always enjoy what MS has to say. I have played with PCs since owning an Amstrad 1640 in 1987, I have to say that having owned a Mac for only 6 months now, I sincerely wish I had dumped MS years ago. I was always convinced that Apple fanbois were empty vessels making a lot of noise over nothing, but I took the plunge I am now eating humble pie like a 32st shut-in! Both my missus and my old man have now moved to OSX, I even have it on my Acer Aspire One mini, do youself a favour get with Linus or Steve J, you won't regret it!

Anonymous Coward

flamewars to commence

Yup, they've paid a shill to write a piece showing how on average Apple machines are more expensive. You could do an analysis showing this logically but this all seems to be an attempt to reignite the flamewars, back when Apple was badly run.

Oh great. Even the author couldn't help mentioning the user experience.

Seems pointless when the growth area is in netbooks and smartphones.

Peter Labrow

Very good article

A very good article - and it's right to 'out' people that put forward misinformation as research, whoever they are. There's no doubt that, while you can get cheap PCs everywhere, there's no such thing as a cheap Mac. But, when you stack them up against products with similar build quality and spec, they are seldom poor value. I used to be a PC user - a 'power user' with a very hefty Dell workstation. When it came time to upgrade, it happened to be the same time that I needed to move to Adobe CS2. The cost of a Dell Workstation with 5GB of RAM (2 of which, at the time, Windows couldn't use) with upgrade software, compared to a new Apple Mac Pro with ALL NEW software, inc all the other stuff such as Office, was far greater than the cost of the Apple solution. So I swapped. Not for fanboi style, just common sense, less money, more computing power and access to all the RAM I installed. The real eye-opener was putting a new hard disc in compared to Windows. Windows PC: unscrew box, unscrew HD bay, unscrew drive rails, unplug drive, plug in drive, put PC back together, fire up Windows, run Disc Management, create volume, format, 1 hour later I can use it. Mac: open box, no screws, slide in drive (no screws or cables), close box, power back up, Mac OSX use the disc immediately in full Journaled mode. That's what computing should be about! However, following this comment will immediately be followed by lots of flame comments from people who seem to have a passion for knocking a computing platform they have never used, or not used in over a decade.

Darryl Parvin

Cool Tax

Sorry - I'd have to agree with Apple being expensive because of the "cool tax". It's something I assiduously avoid with all products. I don't pay an extra 100 pounds on top to be branded with a Swoosh like a donkey, and I don't hand over an extra 500 pounds for a silhouette of a piece of fruit.

I'm not cool enough for a Mac... and thankful for it.

Anonymous Coward

Wow...

Microsoft's marketing campaign must really strike a nerve for someone to go to all this trouble to try and "prove" that Mac makes a good product. If you remove all the slanderous remarks, the author is pretty much left with comparing two PCs (yes, the Mac is still a personal computer) -- but that's not what Microsoft is selling -- they're selling the idea that you can go an choose whatever hardware configuration you want and can afford -- even if it's a piece of crap.

Apple doesn't give you a choice -- it's their way or the highway... kind of like the parody they did back in 1984 with the hammer throw... who's selling the freedom to choose now? Certainly not Apple...

Alex

Hardware is a non-sequitur

The key component of any computer is the Operating System and everyone knows that that is where Windows wins out. Just look at the market share:

http://marketshare.hitslink.com/operating-system-market-share.aspx?qprid=8

Windows has 88% of the market with OS X trailing far behind at less than 9%.

The key point is that for any job you might want to do there are 100s of options on Windows and just a few, if any, for the OS X. Any software available on OS X is available for Windows whilst the opposite is simply not true.

These are simple facts not fanbois hyperbole.

Windows wins.

Anonymous Coward

Fanboy bashing by another fanboy

Couple of things to note:

First of all yes, I agree with you that MS has been overzealous in this occasion. Now let's examine a few of the points you make:

You have no right to write an article on Apple and mention security. OSX is getting concistently raped in every security conference for quite a while now. In the mean time, not only do they have more known security holes than windows but Apple is much slower to patch them. You are the journalist, you should know better about this.

Second point I would like to make: This is a bloody co.uk domain, care to come over here and price a toy from Apple against a real computer?

I agree with some points in your article but overall it reeks of yankee fanboism. For the record and since in your land English is not seeing great days: it is CAPACITY not CAPACIOUSNESS.

But I am sure the spellcheck on your Mac would have known if you knew how to enable it.

You also failed to explain how it would cost anything to install free antivirus on a PC and why it would cost anything to install a few of the many free applications that do exactly what iLife does without getting involved with the iDeath for that brain that OSX is. As a matter of fact the free apps I find for windows are far better than the iLife equivalents and yes I have tried my best to like iLife.

Now tell me, if your average family did indeed buy the iMac and later on decided they can buy a bigger screen, what will they do? Oops no upgrades there, we gotta bing the whole thing and get a new one. Nice one Apple and you wonder why nobody buys this iCrap. Shall we go into HDD and GPU upgrades? It must be so painful for you that I should leave it out.

Oh does that family have kids? They would love to play a game or two on the Mac. Oh hang on...

Let's discuss freedom a bit shall we? How free are you to do anything you like with a Mac? Is it not true that unless an app is blessed by Jobs, it does not make it to the platform? So that leaves us with a few java or C based apps, no? Tell me how many apps are available for a Mac and how many for a PC? I am sure you will agree that Windows has a much larger number of apps so going by statistics, where am I most likely to find what I want?

What is the market share of Apple in servers and workstations combined and what isthe market share for Linux similarly? You cannot even beat Linux which is aimed exactly at the opposite kind of people that Apple aims. You know, the ones with a brain and those who know how to install an antivirus and set up automatic updates and never worry about it again.

To conclude, you are no better than MS. Do your preaching in America where it works, over here the iJunk is still overpriced and people are still equiped with a functional brain and can sort out minor PC issues without paying Apple premium. Do not even try to discuss stability and security because OSX is just as bad if not worse. If it was not for the gadgets Apple would be long gone now but Jobs fails to mention how craptastic the Mac sales are anywhere outside America. Too bad that good sales within america still only give about 1% market share to Apple.

~Linux/Windows User~

Anonymous Coward

Equally guilty of inaccuracy!

You are guilty of what you accuse the microsoft consultant of being - inaccurate!

The four-core Mac Pro uses the much cheaper 3500 series Xeon processor not the 5500. If you compare like for like (as I've been doing recently as I'm thinking of getting a Mac Pro) the Mac Pro is quite a bit more expensive than the Dell, especially if you need to up the RAM (the Mac Pro has only 4 RAM slots per processor so much more expensive RAM needs to be used).

Anonymous Coward

Microsoft is McDonalds, wants to be Mosimann

So essentially, (apart from the Dell you listed an a few others), Microsoft is McDonalds and has to sell on price, and it wants to be a Mosimans, and sell on quality.

Well it tried to be a Heston Blumenthal when it did a 'we're an innovator' phase and that failed, as it became clear it's innovations weren't its own.

And it tried to be a proper restaurant, with a full menu, but only the Windows quarter pounder, and Office menu sold in big numbers.

And it tried introducing new burgers, the Vista Half Pounder, but it was too big and bloated and people couldn't stomach it and they had to reintroduce the XP Quarter Pounder.

Then there's that strange specialist foods made from Penguins or something, they have to cut prices to compete.

Pity them, they can't make their products better, so they have to pretend their competitors are worse.

Chris C

Color me shocked

Gee, Microsoft is lying in its advertisements? Wow, color me shocked. I never would have imagined that they could possibly stoop to that level. Just as I'm positive that Apple has never done the exact same thing. Of course, Apple goes one step further in their ads by attacking PCs (the hardware) as opposed to Windows, as if a PC running Linux suffers from constant failurs and/or malware attacks. But it's not "cool" to diss Apple, so we won't mention that.

What's the point of this article, really? Is it just a chance to bash Microsoft since that always seems to be "cool"? I got bored halfway through and only skimmed through the rest, but that seems to be the only point. If I were cynical, I might suggest that this was written by an Apple fanboi due to its overly defensive tone. Face it, both Microsoft and Apple are huge corporations that lie, cheat, and steal to get what they want. And yes, a LOT of people DO buy Apple computers because it's the "cool" thing to do.

Oh, and in response to the last paragraph, I've never had the need for a "regular malware-purging system enema", I've never lost time wrestling with an OS, and I don't need Jägermeister to calm any Conficker jitters since I have no such jitters. The same can be said for everyone I know who uses Windows So who's lying now?

I've said it before, and I'll say it again -- damn, I miss Ashlee.

Anonymous Coward

Equally guilty of inaccuracy!

You are equally guilty of inaccuracy as the subject of your article (the Microsoft consultant).

The four core Mac Pro uses the much cheaper Xeon 3500 chip not the 5500 series!

If you compare like for like (as I've been doing recently) you'll find the Dell is cheaper than the Mac, especially if you wish to up the RAM as the Mac only has 4 RAM slots and requires more expensive memory once you get above 8GB (and for 3 channel memory the limit is 6GB before you get onto the super expensive 4GB sticks).

DrXym

Well Apple is more expensive

I really don't see it open to much debate that Macs are more expensive. They are. Asus, Acer, Dell & Lenovo sometimes take a few months to catchup with the equivalent specs (does Intel & Apple have some kind of exclusivity deal?) but when they do, their kit is cheaper. Not by a little bit but by a lot. It also goes through iterations and discounts faster so the Mac sits at its original price point and specs for a year while the competitors have gotten cheaper and / or better specs.

It certainly has nothing to do with the quality of the kit either. Macs have suffered so many well documented faults in the last few years that its tough to remember them all - expanding batteries, overheating, yellowing cases, cracked aluminium, melting power connectors etc. Only the Mac Pro has escaped these issues and its price is in the stratosphere. Even the cost of OS X (helpfully tied to Apple hardware for no good reason) is a consideration since it receives more upgrades (possibly 2 or 3) in the same period as a typical Windows release.

On the other hand Microsoft has a tax too. Why should new PCs have Windows preinstalled? And even if the vendor offers a carefully hidden discount for not installing it, why is that discount so derisory that its not worth bothering with? Why also is that Windows install laden with crap I don't want such as 60 day antivirus trials, evaluation software and other crapware. At least a new Mac boots clean.

In summary yes the Mac is more expensive, and IMO yes a lot of people buy for the brand instead of the quality of the kit. On the other hand style isn't necessarily a bad thing and if Microsoft were so confident of their software they should let people choose it by preference not by obligation.

Anon Regal

Unfairly reviewing an unfair review is unfair

Please take a minute to ensure that you own reviews aren't as biased as the reviews you're commenting about. My primary complaint is your comparison of the Mac Pro and the Dell Portfolio machine. To start off an integrated video card, which if not integrated cost $30 to insert in a machine is equivalent to a Quadro NVS 295, which costs, on average $150.

RAM in the Mac Pro, which runs 1066 MHz, costs an average retail of $45(3x1GB). The 1333MHz RAM used in the Dell cost twice as much.

The mac harddrive(640GB, 7200 rpm) costs a retail average of $70. The Dell uses a 500 GB 10,000 rpm drive, which, unforunately, I was unable to find in retail. A 320 GB 10,000 rpm drive, however retails at $229.

Rob McDougall

errr

Did you mean: recalcitrant

mines the one with the pocket dictionary....

Posted Saturday 11th April 2009 16:12 GMT

Joshua

Gah?

What's this? A somewhat complimentary article disucssing Apple? Has someone at El Reg forgotten that they don't like anything that comes out of Cupertino?

Nice debunking of the myth.

Posted Saturday 11th April 2009 16:12 GMT

Don Mitchell

Advertising

It's called advertising. Look at the "I'm a Mac, I'm a PC" commercials, great stuff, but of course lots of people got upset by them. And at least when Microsoft or Apple put out a commercial, we know their agenda. Their disinformation isn't disguised behind a political mass movement like open source.

Posted Saturday 11th April 2009 16:12 GMT

Christopher Martin

Hardware schmardware

It all runs linux... and it all will blend.

Posted Saturday 11th April 2009 16:52 GMT

Anonymous Coward

Hmmmm 70 posts? On a Saturday?

Looks like el Reg hit an open nerve.

If the marketing strategy did have some serious intent and was reported accurately well, it seems to have misfired or backfired?

I don't mind MS or any other organisation alleging I'm cool for having a Mac.

It seems a very neat compliment and seems to smart of a little pain with a high internal 'ouch' factor that makes the compliment stick.

I think Apple has accepted that 'coolness' is a year-in, year-out contiguously continuous (or was it continuously contiguous?) whereas other organisations seem to adopt a do it cheap, glitz it up, high PR then move on into a never-never land of poor PR.

For me I know I can set tabs/bookmarks/ ... in Safari and know my other Mac will Mobile Me these into quiet, unassuming luxury.

I'd guess that if Apple decided to do GPS (routes, terrain or both) then addresses would be synced on the fly, iPhone would notch with the GPS in an equally quiet and sophisticated way with soothing luxury, contacts would be synced (anyone had to replug contacts into a GPS while knowing that all it is is a manual re-entry of stuff that already exists on another computer?)

Hmmm... maybe Apple should do GPS?

Posted Saturday 11th April 2009 17:02 GMT

N

I dont care

If they cost more, Id pay anything to get rid of the banal crap & the utter junk that Windows has become.

Im fed up with having to install the mindless stream of updates oh & does it say anywhere in the report that every now and again, the updates fail & render the PC un bootable so you have to start again? No, that has a cost in annoyance factor.

I dont think Ive actually owned any PC longer than around 4 years as they seem to become so terminally slow once youve loaded a bit of software, AV & AS also make them run like proverbial slugs, whereas the Macs I use seem just as fast as the day I first started them.

What they also forget to cost is 5 years anti virus, 5 years anti scumware & 5 years anti everything else, malware, firewall etc

Along with Acronis true image so I can recover easily when it fails.

So as far as Im concerned they can shove their bloody useless windows Vista, Windows 7 & Windows everything else some where where the sun dosnt shine!

Posted Saturday 11th April 2009 17:05 GMT

Phil McMillan

Endpoint Technologies Website

Just had a gander at it, and couldn't stop laughing that many of the links point to files on Roger's C: drive! Maybe a Yahoo site builder issue, but surely someone who commentates on the IT industry should at least get a website done correctly!!

Marty

just what we needed....

another dick measuring contest.....

so long as it does the 'effin job you need it to.... who cares....

mines the one with the psion netbook in the pocket !!!

Charles

@tom

But to be fair, tight control of hard is EXACTLY what makes Macs "just work". Since Apple controls the acceptable hardware, they can actually test for every possibility. Not line in the PC world where no one has real control over anything and anyONE can do just about anyTHING. It's the classic tradeoff of the walled garden or the badlands.

James Dee

nope..

Hey Tom, you're not very bright. The same specs apply in Canada, try and compare that Dell box in Canada and Apple is still competitive.

The Fuzzy Wotnot

Anyhoo...

So MS is finally out of ideas eh? They are forced to compare hardware, which they don't make, they only make an O/S and there's can't be that great if they can't compare their primary product with another in the market place.

Sorry MS, this really shows you scrapping the bottom of a very, very empty barrel!

DJ Particle

Re: "Although"

Ugh...I hate this argument of "Apple charges for service packs". Um, no. In order to preserve the "Mac OS X" brand, they use a different version numbering system. Cheetah (10.0) is not the same OS as Snow Leopard (10.6) by any stretch.

If you want to call them the same OS, then fine, but be consistent and say that WinNT 4, Win95, Win98, Win2K, and WinME are just the same OS as well..after all, they all had version number 4.x

Yeah, I know it's silly.....ergo it's just as silly to say that Cheetah and Snow Leopard are the same OS too.

In MacOS version numbers, the "10" is cosmetic to preserve the "X" brand. The second number is the main version number that you have to shell out $125 for, and the third number is the service pack which, not only do they provide as free upgrade, but are released 4 to 5 times every year to reduce bloat from security updates. Compare that to WinXP, which has only been service-packed thrice in the last 7.5 years since it was first released. Oh, and a WinXP Pro or Vista Ultimate purchase (to make it comparable in features to MacOS) will set you back far above $125.

Mad Hacker

Watashi you're a moron

Watashi: The thing with Apple is that they're only good value for money if you actually need the extra oomph....If you don't actually need those things the extra money is a waste. So it is with Apple's computers. If you don't actually need the top-end specs of the Mac Pro (which is the case for 99 out of 100 PC users) the Mac Pro is awful value for money.

Uh, then don't by an 8 core Xeon Mac Pro. The Mac mini is there for users like you. You can't blame Apple if you buy an over-specced machine!

Watashi: Also, what the El Reg 'journalist' fails to mention is the fact that most people know someone who can help with their PC problems, thus overcoming many of the hardware reliability downsides of the PC.

Not really. That's why I make $50 an hour in my off hours fixing people's Windows PCs. When I'm done I always recommend to the users they should buy a Mac and they won't need to call me out anymore.

Paris, because she makes more sense then Watashi.

Anonymous Coward

W@nker Alert

"How free are you to do anything you like with a Mac? Is it not true that unless an app is blessed by Jobs, it does not make it to the platform?"

Wrong. And to top it all, your entire argument fell to pieces with the completely inaccurate statement.

This post has been deleted by a moderator

Mark Jonson

Don't tell me...

you're going to try to defend a $2,800 computer with one year old specs. There IS an Apple tax!

Friend of mine just told me one of his iDrone buddies was going to go out and buy a Time Machine--err, Time Portal-- Time Capsule-- Overpriced Hard Drive in a Box....whatever the stupid thing is called. For $200, he was going to get a 500GB external HD. I can get a 1TB HD (even a Western Digital) for ~$100 just about anywhere from newegg.com to the local Best Buy. So tell me now, how is there not an Apple tax?

Anonymous Coward

Impotent Flames

Apple's "cool" sell was successful with some customers. These newer mac users are not the ones that post on the register. Insulting them without them knowing about it is pretty stupid. The folks that both use macs and read the register just get a good laugh out of this farcical insistence on the part of windows fanatics that MS is better because more people use it. Those of us who find Macs are better for our use simply don't care to be part of the windows herd and are willing to occasionally pay a little more for that. Frankly, the difference in the initial purchase price over the lifetime of the device really is not a significant factor in overall operating cost anyway. For the home user, I think printing supplies are still the biggest cost concern.

James O'Brien

@Author

Ok Rik Im sorry to hear that you like Apple so much but lets compare HIGH end systems price wise. (Keep in mind I built mine from the ground up myself. can't do that with Macs)

This is my systems specs and prices will be next to it then I am going to configure something from Apple like it as best I can and lets see the price then.

Coolermaster Stacker 830 EVO case $249.99

Enermax Galaxy 1000watt Power Supply $349.99

EVGA X58 Motherboard $299.99

Intel i7 Extreme 965 @ 3.2GHz $999.99

4 - WD VelociRaptors 300Gb each $229.99 = $919.96

4 - WD 2Tb Drives $299.99 = $1199.96

2 - EVGA GTX 295 Video Cards $559.99 = $1119.98

12Gb DDR3-1600 RAM $214.99

Pioneer 8xBluRay Burner $245.00

Total = $5599.85

Warranty for all of this didnt close me extra to extend and the overall warranty is alot longer then anything you can get from Apple or and PC manufacture for that matter. Now to see what Apple has to offer along these lines.

OK Mac Pro as close as I can get it to the machine I use at home for gaming:

2 - 2.93 Xeons (chosen because of the HT on the i7 to equal "cores")

12Gb RAM

4 - 1Tb HDDs (biggest they have and at only 7200RPM preformance is no where near the raptors)

4 - GT 120 cards (chosen to get as close [thats a joke] in preformance to the GTX 295s)

1 - "Superdrive" (always hated that term.....expect the drive to have a big read and yellow S on it)

Total = $7649.00

I dont know but I would gladly put my desktop with WINDOWS VISTA on it up against that system from Apple any day of the week for pure preformance. Apple may be the Ferrari but I got the Ford GT-40.

Why dont you go back to gnashing your teeth and foaming at the mouth Rik and retire from writing because every article you have written as of late about anything to do with Apple is so full of it that I'm surprised you even get it published.

@The Editor - Seriously how does this stuff even get published? I love coming here but lately its been going down hill faster and faster.

/Chances are this wont get posted to the comments....oh well said my piece

snafu

Tight control yeah right

Just to remind people that Apple doesn't know the innards of their own products well enough to avoid having them glitch all over the place during their first year and a half of life. Every two laptop and iMac generations we have the ittle dance that usually ends with a Class Action Suit. Ever heard of the "wait for the Rev. 2" mantra among us sadomacs? Also, lately, many of the security updates and such it releases as a torrent upon us have some idiot mistake that forces them to issue a v.2 of these patchs, which is hilarious except that not it isn't.

Anonymous Coward

The only Effin Tax

Is the make fatty Ballmer even fatter tax. Care to try and find a laptop without pre-installed GENUINE Microsoft Manure (Apple make their own laptops so don't count !) is about as easy as trying to locate rocking horse dung. Hardware manufacturers are you listening - I DON'T WANT BLOODY WINDOWS AND I'M NOT PAYING FOR IT. I just want the hardware and leave the software to me because I want MY computer to work the way I want it to, paid for by MY money.

ABMer ?

Yeh, anything but ManureSoft because I like choice !

Steven Knox

A Bit of Advice

If you're going to criticize someone, it's wisest not to make the same type of mistake that they do.

Comparing a GeForce to a Quadro is the graphics equivalent to comparing a Core to a Xeon.

James

Honestly? RWAR?

I can't understand the religious wars people get into over their computers. Its a piece of silicon with some shit stuck to it that makes it do other shit. Really, that's it.

It's your choice if you use windows/mac/linux/BSD and for your own reasons, price might be one, style and functionality might be others.

Have you ever thought that maybe, just maybe, that some product or other (not just a computer) is not aimed at YOU and that you AREN'T the target market?

Clearly there is a (big) market for Apple things or they wouldn't be here. Same for windows. Would each of the OS fanatics above and below prefer that their choice of OS should be the only one available and be forced upon the rest of us?

Summary:

- Not everyone wants to play games or use winamp

- Not everyone can afford to pay £2000 for a computer or use Final Cut Pro 6

- Not everyone wants to mess around with partitions or open sourcey things

- Not all of us want what YOU want.

Anonymous Coward

Oxymoron

"I use to be a PC user, a 'power user' with a very hefty Dell workstation."

That's an oxymoron.

nick

Laptop for £600

Hi,

PC user. IT developer, Multimedia User (video / images /audio) gamer.

Spent £600 on a LAPTOP with enough specs for ALL the above and very well.

May not be as decent as a high end mac. But does all I need and i need a lot!

I'd love to use macs.... but only because i hove low self esteem and want to be cool, but i just can't afford it.

PS - just added more ram..... easy

PPS - may get another graphics card next year.... easy

PPPS - may add more hard drive... easy

PPPPS - may want to download loads of freeware / shareware... easy

PPPPPS - may need some virus protection.... easy (updates each day and free)

PPPPPPS - may buy a cool looking case... but i'm still not as cool as a mac.. i may go and hang myself

PPPPPPPPSSSSSS - sorry, i'm running vista ultimate, have been for 18 months, never crashed, still really quick, umm...... i like it

(so uncool so uncool so uncool)

Mithvetr

Forgive the flames, but...

Gods, what *is* it with people? Some bored Reg hack snaps his fingers and people start performing the same old tricks on demand like a bunch of trained pets. Apple this; "Windoze" that - all the usual desperate point-scoring that gets run through again and again every time someone compares the two.

Nobody wins this. Nobody ever wins this because there's nothing to win. Macs and PCs are two different systems, used in different ways by different people with different requirements. There really is no need for all the manhood-waving. Ultimately, this was a marketing tactic, and since when did marketing people have morals? Are we *really* so shocked about this?

Anonymous Coward

un-blacklisted

Watch out El Reg, you may actually get invited to an Apple Town Hall or product event with a few more, rather level-headed articles like this.

There's WAY too many soft, unquantifiable reasons that a discussion about Mac v. Win v. Linux v. hardware v. app software can't really be explained well.

But for me, anyone that has gotten a virus or a crash or wasted weeks of their life re-formating, waiting for wake-up every morning and evening -- following by a freeze, or finding lost files...on a certain OS from Redmond knows the "real-world" difference. And yet, spending your own hard-earned money is a hugely personal, irrational behavior, anyway...

Having said that, it's interesting to see what millions of dollars of advertising buys you if you're a monopoly company under duress or a minority company that's trying to innovate like crazy to make up for lost time...and how gullible consumers will and do react. (And trust me, we're ALL gullible...otherwise modern market economies that rely on 60% consumerism would collapse.)

@Fuzzy: Very funny...I noticed that too, MS has no inclination to actually show their OS, because it's not actually super-useful, in comparison to Leopard. Just marketing cheap boxes of their own partners. (And showing little kids edit photos, with a heavily-edited video commercial...akin to their edited screenshot movie during the anti-trust trial that the Judge scolded them about...remember?? haha.)

@Doug: You're either a teenager that isn't aware of anything pre-2005 or have no clue about what MS was doing to Apple and the industry in the past. MS "invested" $250M in a dying, badly-run Apple when Steve Jobs returned. This was to keep the Feds from suing MS for billions of dollars of anti-competitive behavior by bundling their OS to OEMs' contracts via threats for pre-instaling Linux or adding Netscape to the desktop.

Also, the mafioso agreement included that MS would not maliciously f-ck Apple over by not offering MS Office that's two releases behind or with denigrated file format support...AND bundle IE for Mac (in 1997).

No company in the history of the Earth (or any other inhabited planet) attained 90% monopoly market share because their product or service is better. They do it by politely assassinating competitors while the anti-trust regulators look the other way for a while...and creating a "moat" to raise the cost of entry.

Anonymous Coward

This is probably the tipping point...

If I step back 2 years, my home was XP, four desktops and two laptops. I was tired of it, tired of spending time trying to understand why things that worked 24 hours ago didn't work now.

I tried four or five different Linux distros and gave them all up in frustration each one missing one piece of the jigsaw. I'd avoided Apple but didn't really know where else to try to get something fit for purpose and fit for use.

So I tried a Macbook, as much out of curiosity than anything.

Two years later I have nothing but OS X in the house. I always assumed that "It just works" was marketing cr@p but it wasn't and isn't. And that's not to say I buy style or coolness, I buy lack of frustration and lack of wife/kids coming to me with problems. I buy utility computing where I can go months without any of my beloveds coming to me with an "It won't...." problem.

Microsoft can commission as many reports as they want but for them the uncomfortable truth seems to be that when people try OS X, perhaps 70-80% express a preference for it.

Perhaps the most telling thing is that a growing number of my friends are (of their own volition) trying OS X and I've yet to see anyone who would revert to Windows. For me that's as concerning for the Open Source community as anyone as switchers really need to be switching to Linux - if it can't compete "for free" it's probably condemned to the Comms Room.