back to article Pro-Heathrow demo challenges Carbon Cult killjoys

As eco warriors descend on Parliament this afternoon to protest against the expansion of Heathrow, an obscure counter demonstration will be taking place. It's quite unusual: Modern Movement will be demonstrating in favour of something, not against it: cheap travel. "What we want to counter is the small number of green …

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  1. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    @AC

    I never realised the environment was so simple, can you let me know where you got your PhD in environmental sciences, I'd like to get a copy your Doctoral thesis as you are obviously very well read.

    You should probably also get in touch with the Stern review people and IPCC to let them know that they are mislead.

  2. Anonymous Coward
    Happy

    Uncomfortable truth

    Greenhouse gases raise Earth's surface Temp by between 20 and 30 °C, Royal Society figures

    Some Green and other sources say greenhouse effect raises planet's temperature by 33°C

    CO2 accounts for 3% of the Greenhouse effect, the major greenhouse gas is water vapour (95% of the effect)

    Some Green sources say CO2 = 20% of greenhouse effect, water 60% (IPCC 1990 said 60-90%), other gases 20%

    Anthropogenic CO2 is approximately 3% of the CO2 emitted annually, the rest is from natural sources

    UK is responsible for 3% of World anthropogenic CO2 emissions

    Air travel is 3%-6% of UK anthropogenic CO2 emmissions

    So

    Using non-Green data

    25 °C Global warming effect of greenhouse gases

    x 3% = 0.75000 °C Global warming effect of CO2

    x 3% = 0.02250 °C Global warming effect of Anthropogenic CO2 emissions

    x 3% = 0.00068 °C Global warming effect due to UK's Anthropogenic CO2 emissions

    x 3% = 0.00002 °C Global warming effect due to UK's Air travel

    Using Green biased data

    33 °C Global warming effect of greenhouse gases

    x 20% = 6.60000 °C Global warming effect of CO2

    x 3% = 0.19800 °C Global warming effect of Anthropogenic CO2 emissions

    x 3% = 0.00594 °C Global warming effect due to UK's Anthropogenic CO2 emissions

    x 6% = 0.00036 °C Global warming effect due to UK's Air travel.

    Can someone check the maths? I'm too busy looking for a cheap flight to somewhere with a sunny beach.

    PS, it would still be a good thing if regional airports got more of the pie though, nobody wants to spend the best part of a day traveling down from Newcastle because all the international flights are from London.

  3. Anonymous Coward
    Linux

    Eco mentalists..pah!

    I think you have all missed the point. Our betters, MP's Mininsters Royalty etc can travel by private jet simply everywhere even to the bog and back. That causes no pollution whatsoever.

    It's only when oiks like yourself travel that suddenly it become a bad thing. Geddit?

    IMO we need lots more runways but not at Heathrow. I support Boris Island myself -- build a dozen runways there and high speed rail links and huge motorways too.

    Eat the rich!

  4. Danny

    Cut the fat

    The trouble with eating the rich is there are so few of them to go around we'd soon run out and be relying on veganism. You'd need to keep some rich people as breeding stock, and that is expensive. Unless you intend just eating people who are richer than you which would certainly lower wage demands.

    There is a Californian plastic surgeon who runs two cars using the body fat of his patients as fuel. The UK is not short of it's own obese resources. We could forcably suck the fat out of fatties and use that for fuel. That would cut CO2 as lighter people would be travelling, it would slash the health budget plus it would just be easy on the eyes.

  5. Anonymous Coward
    Alert

    Sick of people accusing planes of being inefficient

    The Boeing 747-400 in an all-economy configuration (engine type makes a diference too) is using 1.9 litres of fuel per passenger 100km. That is while it is cruising at 900km/h.

    I really think those that believe TGV or Maglev are more efficient should look again at their figures.

    Airbus *claims* higher efficiency for the A380, however it has not been in service with enough carriers yet over a long-engough period of time to get *real* industry figures back.

    Even the venerable concorde used 17 litres per passenger 100km. (but a rotton taxiway consumption :-) )

  6. Anonymous Coward
    Thumb Down

    how awfully nice of you...

    ...to stand up for those poor working class persons. How very altruistic.

    The biggest polluters are not people taking an annual summer holiday, but middle class people, who are able to afford to jet off on multiple 'weekend breaks' a year.

    The opinion piece's, and some comments, sweeping stereotypes of the 'green movement' are ridiculous. On what evidence do you base your opinions - have you ever even met any climate activists? The people most concerned about the environment, are not the middle classes, looking down on the 'plebs'.

    Quite the reverse. We're for travel equality, would be delighted with high speed trains cutting down on internal flights, and are desperate for more investment and development of alternative power generation.

    But how does simply allowing an airport to expand with existing technology create any market impetus for these?

    It is YOUR snobbery of those with social conscience, which really shines through. This is simply a way of creating an excuse so you don't have to feel bad about polluting. Not any 'sympathy' with the masses.

  7. Dr Stephen Jones

    @Fraser

    "I never realised the environment was so simple, can you let me know where you got your PhD ... You should probably also get in touch with the Stern review people and IPCC to let them know that they are mislead."

    Stern is not a scientist, he's an economist.

    As for the IPCC, the lead author William Schlesinger admitted that only "something on the order of 20 per cent have had some dealing with climate".

    Your willingness to believe non-scientists is reflected in your careless use of English.

  8. Roger Heathcote
    Flame

    @Paul

    You come across as an utter c---rag although I must agree that the world would be a far richer place without "High Wycombe".

  9. Alexander
    Stop

    science from a crystal ball

    mm bit of a problem here , the warmest 2 days on record in the USA was the two days directly after 9/11 when all aircraft where grounded, studies done to follow up this found aircraft actually contribute more to an effect called global dimming, which cools the earth and not the other way about.

    Agian it seems the vast majority of the green brigade pulling hairs out their arses and call it fact , but even the langauge has changed in mainstream media from global warmming to climate change, and climate change is something that has been happening since a cloud of dust and gas mereged to create this planet over 4 billion years ago.

    Ice ages come and go now every 50 000 odd years because south america crashed into north america and split the worlds oceans in half cupple that with the intermittent failure of the atlantic convyeur and we have an ice age , so should blow up panama and mexico to stop this ............

    The green brigade dont like change..well tuff shit beacuse it is here to stay .

    Here in scotland i once heard two rather foolish greenies on telly go on about how the beauty of the highlands would be spoiled by global warming, both where siblings and the children of a lord like the story above, what amazed me is the highlands today are a waste land created by greedy lairds and landowners during the 18th and 19th centruies that stripped the land of it's people and wildlife so more proiftable sheep could graze, 100 yrs of sheep have devastated the highlands and left the majority a bleak shadow of a once alive part of britain much like the welsh valleys.

    the greenies want us to save the picture postcard view of the world and lock us uncooth and stupid masses into a reguritated victorian ideology , i am pro nuclear ,pro transport and pro people ...the planet can look after itself and any time humans intervene it usually is pointless.

    The planet will survive us , but we wont survive it.

  10. Tim Shears
    IT Angle

    I always wanted to visit

    I understand the world is a large place full of wonder if we think about it a 100 years ago, flight across the oceans were just a dream, instead they used tons and tons of coal to get across. Still less then 50 years ago it was still cheaper to go by boat across the pond but by now they were more modern burning oil not fit for any other consumption. About 30 years ago or the wild and wacky 70's the 747 was born and flights across the Atlantic were affordable. More people in the last 30 years have been to places our grandparents only thought of.

    As far as classes, they have the concorde...oops that is right that haughty piece was rightly retired.

    I sure wish that information was put in the hands of people that understood what it means. Instead we have the very "knowledgeable" Al Gore flying all over the world in a Big jet to talk to the masses that we are into global warming. The real truth is that it is a way to get rich and stay rich by keeping the working class scared. I would love to know how much carbon old Al put into the air.

    Today though the most important thing is that we have a way to get the information to the masses that not one generation has Facebook...no the internet. I sure wish some of those great inventions of WWII which has stayed buried within GM for fuel economy was allowed to see the light of day. I have heard rumors of gas and water mix that works wonders but of course they have yet to go belly up.

    Maybe one day I will make a trip to europe and see the world. but I am sure Al will see to it that it will be on a rubber band powered airplane....

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