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back to article You're barcoded: The sneaky under-25 route to compulsory ID

There has been much tabloid fury about recent reports that two Royal Marines, just back from the front line in Afghanistan, were refused entry to a pub because they only had military ID. Is this just a storm in a pint glass, or evidence of yet more subtle pressure by Government to persuade all of us that ID cards would be a good …

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(Written by Reg staff)

Re: Sigh....

You lot have been HYS for techies for ages now.

But I resemble that other remark. The Mail? Good god.

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@Tim

That's nothing - I've had two seperate supermarkets refuse to sell me alcohol because I had the audacity to take my 19 year old son along to help with the weekly shop !

It wouldn't have been so bad but the ID he had on him was 'the wrong type' !!!

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Anonymous Coward

@Richard

I hear (or read!) what your saying , but wasn't the Age Discrimination Act passed a couple of years ago? Surely that covers this?

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@ sarah bee

"You lot have been HYS for techies for ages now."

hay I resemble that remark!!

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Anonymous Coward

@Can't blame the shops

"The challenges made by shops are not surprising given the fines levied on any caught selling to under-age people"

Yes you can. Sooner or later someone has to stand up to this hateful bitch and just because companies have nothing to gain, simply means you boycott them till they decide that yes, it is actually in their interests to resists stuff like this.

She's made it so you can have booze, only if you are prepared to carry ID, otherwise not. Today it's booze, tomorrow it will be something else you'll need a permit to buy/use. I bet Sunbeds are next, they changed the law so that sunbeds can't be used by under 18s, I bet they add a penalty and make it a crime if you let an under 18 use a sunbed, so going to a solarium will require an ID.... and since gyms have solariums, going to the gym will require and id check.

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Tim
Flame

Tentative pedantry @Sarah Bee

*Cough* respectfully, Miss Moderatrix, I wonder if you perhaps might have meant that you 'resent' that other remark, rather than resemble it.

Andrew Oakley: are you from Utah? This is Britain. I'm not even sure what "light beer" means.

Flames for the fire I'm playing with.

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(Written by Reg staff)

Re: Tentative pedantry @Sarah Bee

You may well cower. It's the Three Stooges, donchaknow.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=I%20Resemble%20That%20Remark%20

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Anonymous Coward

Ausweis bitte!

In some ways the 'ausweis bitte!' culture makes things worse, not better.

I started drinking in pubs when I was 13, I think. My mates and I thought we'd managed to pass for 18 - until the landlord of our local disabused us of that notion not long after we'd actually turned 18. A very 'old school' landlord of the 'pub is a part of the community' variety, he told us he'd rather we were drinking somewhere he could keep an eye on us rather than having us out terrorising the locals. We'd drink, the logic went, whether he or our parents permitted it.

By hammering away at 'yoof' today, the nannying finger waggers are unnecessarily exacerbating the problem by pushing the little oiks into drinking whatever psycho lager the Tesco marketing department is pimping to them this week, and forcing them to drink it in places where the only post-fuelling up entertainment is kicking the crapout of/stabbing/shooting people and things. The lack of respect accorded to the young makes it little surprise they show none in return.

Can we have a jackboot icon please.

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want to go to jail?

I work in retail (joy of living in the boondocks)

If you card someone and they complain you get grief about "upsetting the customers" (store lower management tend to be crooked and have their eyes on the bosses job)

If you sell age restricted products to someone underage (knives, booze, cigarettes) you get a) fired, b) probably jailed, c) fined about 3 times what you earn in a year

damned if you do, damned if you dont

Simple solution, carry ID, most people have their driving licence on them at all times, so pull it out, show it to me, and you get what you want. Refuse to show it to me, means I refuse the sale, have to record it in the refusal to sell book, and get a big headache from idiots in lower management with chavvy children who cry to mummy that I upset their friends and I'm harrasing them for implementing the law.

entitlement fuckers piss me off. For the record its an "invitation" to purchase, not an "obligation to sell" which means any store can refuse to sell you anything. Shame most managers dont have the spine to enforce the rules and kick out abusive customers (verbal, physical and armed)

I dont make the rules I just have to enforce them or I land in the nick.

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Coat

@Martin

ODFO.

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Linux

The wrinkliest teenager in town

My age has been queried more times in the past year than it ever was when I drank underage many many years ago. In fact drinking and purchasing booze in the UK is becoming similar to the situation in the US. No ID card, no purchase, even if you're 80.

Happened in Tesco's recently. I gave such an astonished "but I'm THIRTY FOUR" response they served me. It was a £10 bottle of wine and I was wearing a suit. Hardly trying to hide the £2.99 Buckfast in my hoodie.

In Waitrose before Christmas my parter, who is thirty five but grey haired, had to buy the wine as they wouldn't let me. Judging from some of the other comments here, I ought to be glad they actually served him and didn't accuse him of being some sort of nonce who wanted to get me drunk and have his wicked way with me.

I don't look 18. I don't even look 25. My moisturiser ain't that good. This is about softening people up for carrying ID.

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Black Helicopters

A taste from abroad

Near my house there is a coffee shop (a Dutch one, so it sells marijuana) where they have a sign on the wall:

"If you don't carry ID, you are not 18"

And indeed, people over 40 have to show their ID cards. But it's all academic, as ID cards are compulsory in the Netherlands and walking outside without one is a punishable crime.

Maybe off topic, but this is what happens: A guy was in the train sitting with his feet on the opposite bench. This is not permitted. The conductor asked to see his ID card. He didn't have it with him, so the police got involved. This guy got arrested, so they could verify his identity. He spend two nights in jail while they where 'verifying'. And no, in the Netherlands, you don't have the right to make a phone call. You are just 'gone'.

Imagine that, in jail for two nights for sitting with your feet on a bench. Are we scared yet? We should be.

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Anonymous Coward

id types

I seem to recall a report about the number of people taking their driving test dropping, mainly among teenagers due to the cost of learning to drive and then the cost of insurance.

On that basis drivers license is going to become a lot less widely used form of ID and while the rate for passports are high it's not a document many people would think of carrying with them constantly.

So it's only a step to a 'why don't you have this nice handy 'entitlement' card'

This government is obsessed with mission creep and using stealth, they have massively decreased the power of parliment and the accountability of ministers. On that basis my first thought with them is to always suspect an ulterior motive.

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Stupid useless shop people...

Once I was buying alcohol and an 18-rated DVD. They scanned the alcohol through without asking for ID then refused to sell me the DVD as I didn't have any ID, so I just took the alcohol... muppets!

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Anonymous Coward

Well I'm Buggered

Well thats me taken up the rear then, I have neither passport nor driving licence (as I have never learnt to drive even at 39) and never been abroad.

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Unhappy

adultism - not limited to alcohol imbibers

I have been teetotal all my life and never found cause to carry ID around with me all the time as I don't have a car.

A few years ago, when I was 21ish, I accompanied some friends into a bar. I was told they would not allow me to stay unless I provided ID to prove I was over 18, despite me stating that I did not want any alcohol. Not knowing enough to kick up a fuss, we went to another bar.

Had that happened now I would be demanding to see the manager and at the least issuing a complaint with whatever standards body applied and potentially taking them to court. Unfortunately I do not know what the outcome would be as the law on discrimination has gaping holes in it.

This may change with a new bill which can be read about here: http://www.advicenow.org.uk/is-that-discrimination/is-that-fair/whats-not-covered,10072,FP.html

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This post has been deleted by its author

Boffin

German Id cards

Someone asked about the German ID cards.

1) They are not in any centralized database. Our Minister of the Interior wants to change that though, but he makes Wacky Jackie look positively sane, anyway. The man was attacked by a loony (or maybe a visitor from the future) resulting in paralysis from the waist down and obviously suffers from paranoid delusions.

2) The cards are considered pretty hard to fake. Of course a proper org can fake them but it's expensive and takes time. ID theft by ID card is not much of a problem. In dealing with banks or police, the cards are considered authoritative and valid prove of identity. I never had mine actually scrutinized.

3) We are obliged by law to have on by the age of 18 but not to carry it around at any time. Germany has some odd laws about having to be registered at the place of residence that Bismarck enacted in the 1880s. The (local) authority responsible for this register also issues the id cards.

4) To get your first ID you need a certificate of birth. If your parents followed the registering law the document or a copy is already at the local registration authority, anyway. To renew the ID after 10 years, the old ID usually suffices. Parents with ID can ID their kids at the office (a.k.a. web of trust - here I am, here is my kid and here's the document to prove I have a kid, now give my kid an ID, too).

5) We don't need them much except to open a bank account or to Id ourselves when signing a notarized contract. Sometimes we use them to prove our age when buying booze (never needed to do that) or other things 18+ only. I last used mine when proving my ID before donating blood as I have not yet put a photo in my donor's pass.

Basically - the cards are widely accepted, have their uses, are considered fake-safe for everyday use and no use in tracking anyone. My details are on record with the local registering authority only and can only be shared under very strict rules. My card hardly ever leaves the wallet. I could use other photo id instead, it's just handy to use.

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How to beat the "credit crunch"

1. Nip over the Channel.

2. Buy large quantities of booze.

3. Sell to anyone who doesn't have "proper" ID / Benjamin Button / etc.

4. Profit!!!

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@AC re: USA

I remember one trip to Florida, when I was younger, where my dad (grey hair, glasses etc... he was 65 at the time I think) was asked for ID at a liquor store and they would only accept his passport not drivers licence as proof.

Oh how me and my brother laughed over that one :) My poor dad though just couldn't understand it!

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Re; Military ID

Does a Military ID show date of birth? If it doesn't, and people can join the military under 18, then it's not actually valid ID for buying alcohol.

My brother is in his late twenties and was a shift manager for one of the largest pubs in town. He was asked for ID in the supermarket and the only thing he had was his personal alcohol license and they wouldn't accept it. They also wouldn't accept his explanation that underage drinkers don't buy the expensive 12yr old single malt of which the shop only stocks about half a dozen bottles.

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More than a happy coincidence, I think

Compliant retail outlets like Tesco and Sainsbury are increasingly becoming a branch of government, or at least tools of the pressure groups (it's hard to tell which, since the government normally does whatever the pressure groups tell them anyway).

We've had supermarkets push endless political issues at us in recent years: fat and salt content in food, animal welfare, alcohol consumption, plastic bags & low energy light bulbs are just the ones I happen to remember. In each case, the stores have taken a clear lead in pushing government policy - and in not a few cases have later been forced to tone down their position when customers pushed back.

Successful businesses with customers who are reluctant to move elsewhere (and this would include outlets like night-clubs, not just the large supermarkets) are obvious targets for political pressure. That they are a tool in implementing the anti-alcohol agenda isn't really a surprise. Customers need to make it clear to these businesses if they don't like it. At the end of the day, the customer's money is what really talks.

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Linux

Interesting behaviour

I am sure that in England and Wales people from 5 to 17 years can drink in private with no problem. To drink on licensed premises you have to be 18 or over. There is an exception, at 16 and 17 you can drink beer wine and cider in a pub or restaurant if an adult orders it with a table meal.

There is no problem with an adult going and buying booze, taking it home and allowing his/her 6 year old kid to drink it. There is, however a problem, if the 6 year old pays the parent for it.

Given the above, it really does not make sense to refuse to sell to someone who has a kid with them. But, most of the people at checkouts don't make most of the time.

The penguin because booze gives you happy feet.

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I got asked

Last friday night I was on my way to a friend's house for drinks when I thought a bottle of wine would be a nice gift. I popped into Asda and grabbed a cheap bottle of red and when I got to the counter I realised from the look on the till girls face that she was going to ask me for ID. Being a 34 year old with two kids I was quite chuffed and luckily had my drivers licence on me which confirmed it.

This never happened when I was 14 and buying cans of Lindener Lager in Spar before going to the park with me mates to get pissed under the slide.

Keep it up I say.

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Unhappy

WTF?

Stuff the pubs, next time I come over from OZ, I'll bring my own booze.

"The idea that a 30-year-old woman may be refused a purchase because she appears underage is considered a positive thing." Are you kidding? If somebody asked me that, the only thing I'd be positive about is that they were mentally deficient, but then I'm neither female nor 30.

On a serious note, reading stories like this about a country that has been so widely respected for its democracy and sense of the rights of the individual is very disappointing.

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Silver badge

I need some new vices

I don't smoke, drink or frequent night clubs and I don't buy many DVDs, so I miss out on all the fun.

I also only have one piece of photo-ID, which is my passport. I still have an old-style driver's licence which is still good enough and doesn't need to be updated every ten years.

I do like the idea of everyone refusing to provide ID though, good practice in case NuLab manage to win the next election and try to foist their Big Brother crap on us for real.

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@ Old people are just nasty

What a lot of crap in your post.

The older generation do NOT subscribe to all this control freakery and abuse of personal freedoms and choices. Nor the assumption of guilt, etc. etc.

Most of us grew up in the aftermath of the Second World War and heartily regret the way things are turning out now, in defiance of that for which our parents and grand parents fought and sacrificed.

Notwithstanding that, we are not impressed with values and behaviour exhibited by many of the younger generation these days. Perhaps they bring it on themselves whilst seeking false freedoms without the corresponding responsibities. After all, we do live in a me first, me centric materialistic society now - quite alien to us in the older generation.

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Happy

my solution..

Tried buying a crate of Tuborg at ASDA,, these were £10 exactly before the VAT dropped

I was asked for ID and didn't have any, (im 26), i just left the £10 on the till, picked up the crate and walked out.

No laws broken, I paid, I'm over 18 so they can't be fined. what can they do?

Stupid fuckers!

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Pirate

Welcome to socialist Britain

It's no different from Communist Russia, or Nazi Germany - and it's deadly dangerous.

I left ten years ago when the right to silence was trashed. The Magna Carta followed soon after.

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Unhappy

@dave

I do like the idea of everyone refusing to provide ID though, good practice in case NuLab manage to win the next election and try to foist their Big Brother crap on us for real.

Yeah, that would be great if they didn't demand your ID for you to vote the numpties out of office.

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Bronze badge
Stop

Florida nightclub

A bouncer at a Florida nightclub refused to accept my Hong Kong ID card as proof of age, and asked if I had a driving license. I showed my HK driving license, and even pointed out where it had my ID card number (but no photo or age) on it.

Fortunately, her manager was able to figure it out, and let me in. Mickey Mouse outfit.

Anyway, it is an oxymoron to ask you to prove you can drive before allowing you to drink yourself into no fit state to do the same... unless, of course, they forcibly search for and confiscate the car keys of anyone presenting a driving license. That would make the roads safer.

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Re; Military ID by Steve

Does a Military ID show date of birth?..........Yes

....And has your picture

.....And has your blood group

......And has your signature

....and is only issued against proof of age, proof of address, parents addresses, and after a security check

Is it good enough to be used a ID now?

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errrm

what's the big deal? The only people seriously worried should be the underage or heavy drinkers surely? Also, ID to open bank accounts? Been doing that for years, same with any form of credit agreement.....

I'm not sure how much this whole anti-id-for-anything attitude reflects the same as the Daily Fail crowd but to me it's no biggie really is it?

I mean, if you want to be paranoid about Big Brother consider; there are CCTV cameras pretty much everywhere so if Large Male Sibling wishes to know what you are doing then then Senior Male Fellow Offspring already knows........there've been ID cards in Spain for years

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re Richard @Mac Phreak

BUt age discrimantion is now law, as of October 07 I believe, it now shares the same legal footing as the others you stated at least in employment law

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@Sabine

'My details are on record with the local registering authority only and can only be shared under very strict rules.'

and that is, for me, the nub of the matter.

UK has plans for a VAST centralised database which will record every aspect of your life (oh yes it will - look at the current and future proposals, THEN tell me i'm wrong) and the government intends to sell a portion of that data to private companies for profit, after compelling you to give the information.

No strict rules. No government accountability. No recourse to parliament to increase the scope.

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The problem isn't the ID cards

It's the fact that

a) The government keep lying about why they want you to have them. "It'll prevent terrorism/ID theft/drunken hooligans/global warming"*

b) They want to put all of that information onto a nice big database so they can track you till you die. Let's face it, this government has the worst record in the world when it comes to data security. Add to that if there's an error in the database because some numpty can't type it's too late, officially you are no longer who you say you are.

c) And to top it all off once they have your data and you have your card they'll then sell that data to the highest bidder (read anyone who wishes to purchase access to the database, which will pretty much be EVERY business in the UK that needs to verify your ID). What's the betting the contract for the hardware and software required will go to a business with a history of making large political donations to NuLab?

This is not about verifying who we are, it's just another way for this government to generate taxes.

* Delete where applicable

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Happy

@ errrm

To be honest, I have few issues with anything this government proposes, per se. That may surprise some readers.

But the point is HOW something is used. I have also done a lot of consultancy work in my time, and the trick almost always is to cut through the rhetoric to understand what is happening - not what the management SAY is happening.

There are two or three issues with id, all illustrated in comments here. One is the way it can be used by police: essentially a means to justify you being you at any moment of day or night. Such a power, used sensibly and sparingly could work well. But do I believe - having seen what the UK Police have done with, say, SOCPA - that such laws will be used sensibly and sparingly?

Nope.

Second, there are the penalties for failing to justify yourself: if you can spend time locked up just for not carrying a piece of paper or plastic, in my world view, that is simply wrong.

Last - and separate from the above - is the concept of some sort of centralised database which the carding system supports. Again: no probs with such used sensibly. But I have my doubts.

Maybe the issue is that these are quite bis powers that the UK government is asking for and they are powers that should really only be entrusted to governments you trust. I suspect you can close that syllogism yourself.

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Pirate

@AC 13:27

Nice thinking, old lad - but basically bollocks.

As a baby boomer myself (January 1950 vintage) with a son born Feb 1986 - who was, and still is, one of my best friends, I have noted that complaisance AND complacence are more prevalent amongst the young than amongst us wrinklies.

Having a lot of friends in the age group 18-65, I can confirm that the abhorrence of, and mistrust of NuLab and especially Whacky Jacqui appears to be in direct proportion to one's age.

I assume that you are a comparitive youngster.

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G4Z
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@ AC 01:12 - about old people and stuff

"What a lot of crap in your post.

The older generation do NOT subscribe to all this control freakery and abuse of personal freedoms and choices. Nor the assumption of guilt, etc. etc.

Most of us grew up in the aftermath of the Second World War and heartily regret the way things are turning out now, in defiance of that for which our parents and grand parents fought and sacrificed."

I am pleased to hear that you are against this kind of abuse of civil liberties, however you do realise that if we are going to make generalisation about age groups that your age group the baby boomers is responsible for all of this shit we find outselves mired in, don't you?

"Notwithstanding that, we are not impressed with values and behaviour exhibited by many of the younger generation these days. Perhaps they bring it on themselves whilst seeking false freedoms without the corresponding responsibities. After all, we do live in a me first, me centric materialistic society now - quite alien to us in the older generation."

Fantastic generalisation, neatly avoiding the fact that recent generations are a product of your generation, its parenting and social policy. I were you I would be a bit concerned about what might happen when the demographics mean 90% of the population is old and incapacitated, do you think these younger generations will want to support you guys after the rampant greed you have shown? A huge generalisation I know, which is why they are dangerous and you should refrain from making. Tthat scenario is not unimagineable when you look at the way the younger generation are marginalised and deamonised now, yet they are the ones who will be expected to pay for your pension and your nursing home.

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Kids nowadays

Kids nowadays are as wet as the pavement slush they're frightened to walk on.

They're getting the respect they deserve because they're too passive to cast a vote!

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Response from AC

@AC 13:27 By Ted Treen

Hear Hear.

@ AC 01:12 - about old people and stuff By G4Z

It is, in general, the generation behind me that has embraced this culture that I detest, current NULab for instance.

However, that is not to absolve the previous Conservative governments who initially embraced unfettered capitalism with inappropriate enthusiasm.

Other factors are the influence of the EU, in which our membership is founded on lies; and the influence of advancing technology - not in itself evil but subject to serious misuse. Of course, the destruction of the family unit and Christian values as pillars of our society has also a significant part to play.

I personally regret the world (and the debt) that the younger generation are inheriting from us.

@ Sarah Bee (elsewhere)

Posted anonymously so that I don't get 'labeled' by other contributers when I post on other subjects under my alias

My coat is ready in case I need it!

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G4Z

@ AC 16:05

Christian values, sorry i can't let that one go.

Are you kidding me? Christian values? so, values like 'genocide being ok if inflicted another religion' or 'you should feel guilty about sex' or 'abortion and contraception is a sin' we should embrace should we?

No thanks mate, I think we would all be better off if those values went the way of the dinosaurs and we simply go with some values based on the golden rule. Also, I would say the EU is a pretty liberal influence on our society overall, though I can't deny that our membership is based on lies.

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G4Z
IT Angle

Also @ AC

I was trying to work out how old you are..

"Most of us grew up in the aftermath of the Second World War"

If you grew up in the aftermath of WW2, that makes you a baby boomer. if you are not a baby boomer then you grew up in as much of an aftermath as I did being born in 1981 you can't have it both ways.

I don't like generalising about whole generations as i mentioned, but I have to say if there is one generation that as a whole has been a huge massive dissapointment it is those of the baby boomer and 60's generations. All that talk of free love world peace and look what you left for us to inherit, a big steaming pile of shit. ( don't mean you personally of course, but you get what I mean)

That is probably a bit unfair, I hate capatalism and all the greed but then its only the micarcle of capitalism that means I have all my own teeth will probably live beyond 40 and don't have to shit in a field.

Is it any wonder the young are apathetic, what the fuck are you supposed to make of all this. In the end no matter how much you think about it the final conclusion just has to be... well.. fuck it.

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big deal?

its about time age limits were taken seriously - there should be at least an under age challenge policy like in the U.S. I'd rather that than we take the far more draconian step of increasing the age you can drink from 18 to 21. 18 is fine - ask for evidence - sorted.

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@G4Z

cristian values as in "christ like" I.E the life guidelines give to us by chrst ( the main one being "do on to others" NOT the rules of a church that was Servley croupted in the middle ages will not go into detials now just thought I woud make e distention

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Anonymous Coward

Next they will be doing it to OAP

O wait a minute they have already been doing that http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/merseyside/7003325.stm.

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Black Helicopters

@Can't blame the shops

It's Fascist!

There is so much wrong with your comment that it's almost text book example of how this stuff works.

The government has got the shop assistants enforcing this indirectly via the employers. I was asked my age when buying superglue at BnQ. I was 43 and she was in her 50's. I said are you seriously expecting me to answer that? I never actually told her my age. We both knew it was stupid but that's not how it works.

They are only doing their jobs. They are following orders. You can't go wrong if you do as you are told. You can only be a bad person if you break the rules. In fact that's the definition of a bad person, someone who breaks the rules.

The fact that this is such a mundane activity, popping to the shops to buy some beer. It's just to stop underage people getting drunk and knifing people. Who could be against that?

We are seeing incremental change.

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Stop

View Points from a shop worker

I've worked selling alcohol for last 3-4 years and I can assure you that its a bigger headache to the staff than it is to you. There are posters in the store that I work (reasonable large frozen food company) telling the staff if you serve under 18s its a £10,000 fine, which you will be expected to pay. Hell I earn £6 an hour, if you want your booze and don't look old then no booze for you, pretty simple.

With military ID i'd be likely to accept it (because the cops can't pull fake ID), and treating one of "our boys" in such a manner is disgraceful. Oh and if your challenged for ID and you don't have it, then you can't buy the alcohol without the shop/cashier committing an offence.

Under 18's need authorisation from 18+ y/o staff to serve alcohol.

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Next they will be doing it to OAP

The news item you have referenced is a very good example as to why we should resist the current march (dash) into a mis-micro managed society in which we will all be the losers. Might as well be Cyborgs or Robots.

The next step is presumed guilt and the thought police - but we're already going that way, inexorably, unless we can do something about it. We need a strong politician, possibly like Obama who has stated he will roll back state intervention.

I would like to quote Benjamin Franklin, again, with this very apt statement. "Those Who Sacrifice Liberty For Security Deserve Neither"

And which has been paraphrased many ways as below:-

He who sacrifices freedom for security deserves neither.

People willing to trade their freedom for security deserve neither and will lose both.

If we restrict liberty to attain security we will lose them both.

Any society that would give up liberty to gain security will deserve neither and lose both.

He who gives up freedom for safety deserves neither.

Those who give up their liberty for more security neither deserve liberty nor security.

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Anonymous Coward

customer is often wrong

lets face it - in this country when it comes to banning things the customer is often wrong - my local Sainbury's insisted that I couldn't buy 2 packets of ibuprofen together with two packets of paracetamol because they have a two painkiller packet policy - when I tried to explain to the manager that it's perfectly safe to take ibuprofen at the same as paracetamol and that you'd need a lot more ibuprofen to do any harm they weren't having it and insisted on sticking by the subordinates initial decision - never mind the facts/science/medicine/the law - I even wrote to their HQ (nothing than like gross stupidity to annoy me) and they insisted they did the right thing.

it's their shop and they can sell whatever they want to whoever they want but I doubt whether retailers are the right people to be policing who buys what and in what quantity.

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