Shelby Super Cars has announced details of the Ultimate Aero EV, the 'leccy brother to its $620,000, 1287bhp, 257mph production car world speed record holder. SSC reckons the Aero EV will be the fastest electric car ever when it hits the road later this year. The Aero will be driven by SSC's electric powertrain package called …
wait wait I got it
the car does 257 miles an hour, right?
So it doesnt need to run for 300 minutes to cover 200 miles. It needs to run for -handwave- under an hour.
there. I solved it. I cn haz cupcake?
I cant help but feel this is deeply hacked PR gibberish. somewhere at the other end of the stream of clear BS is an engineer who said guardedly "you could top it off, to run again, in ten minutes, under the right conditions, from a domestic 220 outlet." or that ten minutes a day was the expected charge time for most commuters, or something.
the right conditions meaning the battery is still holding say 80% charge, the AESC uses charge-whilst-braking technology, etc, etc....
I cant even do the math (cant haz enuff fingurz) and this is so clearly unfeasible. the first thought that sprung to my mind was that a 10 minute charge is totally possible, provided you isolate and connect each individual cell to its own outlet; then you're only pulling;
(13a/220-240v domestic) x (cells) x ten minutes = 4 and a half billion power cords.*
*+/- 5%. I strive for accuracy.
Core-shell silicon nanowire anodes?
Maybe they've somehow out-distanced the researchers at Stanford and already produced some Silicon anode lithium-ion cells?
According to the researchers:
"And the wires have a high charge-storage capacity—about three times that of carbon—and retain the capacity at the 90% level over 100 charge-discharge cycles. The core-shell nanowire design enables a very fast cycle, about seven minutes, and can provide a very large amount of power."
This is what they are talking about
They have managed to demonstrate a battery pack that will run a vehicle at 60mph for 2 hours on a 10 min charge.
It is a 35kWh pack that is charged wiith a 250kW charger.
Capacitors - Not batteries
The technology exists to store energy in capacitors rather than the standard types of batteries that everyone seems to be assuming will be used in this vehicle.
These types of products are already on the market, power tools that can be fully charged in less than 60 seconds and last almost as long as the old types of batteries... But even if they don't last as long, a 60s charge time instead of several hours... Will win every time.
So it is entirely plausible that this type of technology could be scaled up for vehicles.
Perhaps you missed the bit where it said "The Aero will be driven by SSC's electric powertrain package called AESP - All-Electric Scalable Powertrain ..."
So it's ALL-ELECTRIC. Not hybrid, not some magic solution requiring a 10 minute charge as a 'catalyst'. BeSides, how do you imagine some 'super-battery' could hold a lifetime's power and then release it steadily.
"..This means that in a typical eight-hour day, the car using this technology could go 200 miles, charge for ten minutes - the time it typically takes to fill up a tank of gas - then drive 200 more miles, charge for ten minutes and continue on.”
So they're talking about the 10 minute charges replacing your current trips to the petrol/gas station.
As other people have pointed out, the filling hoze on your car is perhaps 50 times the cross-rection of the fuel line to get fuel into the tank at a far faster rate than you can empty it, the same thing applies with electricity. This kind of power is not possible to deliver from a 220V outlet (here I believe we are talking about a 30A 220V 4 pin outlet user in Canada&US for dryers).
There's only one way this could work
220V vs 110V does not fix the problem. If you're trying to jump the Grand Canyon then jumping 220ft vs 110 ft still doesn't qiuite make it.
There is only one way this can work: they don't charge the vehicle directly. Instead you keep a mother of all battery banks in your garage and "trickle charge" it **only** 15A. When you get home you hook up your car to the battery bank and it charges the car from the battery bank in 10 minutes using whatever number of kA required to make the sums work.
One big problem with any major switch to leccy is being able to upgrade both the grid and generation to supply peak charging demand as everyone comes home from work and plugs in. Putting a leccy car in the driveway will probably double, or thereabouts, the average household electrical usage. The leccy chargers will not be able to all run at once but will need to be centrally scheduled (like electrical hot water heating). Plug in your leccy and that 2-4 hour charge might happen immediately or it might happen later in the night. If you need to leave for work at 4am you might have a duff battery.
"Electricity could be the secondary source of power. The car would potentially be using very little of electricity for driving purposes, maybe only for headlights and for controlling the primary source of power which could be a new invention. Then it wouldn't be classified as an electric car I guess, so this option is unlikely."
I love the idea that the most likely reason this isn't powered by some new unknown-to-automotive-engineering power source is that "it wouldn't be classified as an electric" rather than the frankly incredible notion that some small specialist
I've no idea what item (2) is trying to say at all. A 10 minute top up charge with a standard domestic output might be fine if you want to do it every mile or two.
There is "thinking out of the box" and there is fantasising. There's a simple answer to this conundrum. The press release is either full of bovine excement or it has been misreported in some way. The alternative is a fantastical technical breakthrough that fundamentally breaks the laws of physics.
Re: The update and "standards".
Now it's a standard 220V socket. Good luck with finding one of those at the side of the road then. It's a bit like saying for a conventionally fuelled car, "fuelled via a standard F1 filler hose / socket". i.e. outside certain specialist locations you might just as well have gone with a proprietary fitting (probably better suited to the task being designed for it) for all the good it does.
Anyhow, even doubling the voltage, we're still in a world of pain trying to stuff enough watt-hours down the pipe in ten minutes to run two 500bhp motors for any appreciable length of time.
The interim solutions concept
is interesting: charge up a series of seriously big capacitors that can then dump the required power to the car in 10 minutes.
Will be very popular until the first 'merkin pet/toddler/mother-in-law gets vaporised because they accidentally shorted the contacts...
"A bit of napkin math quickly proves this claim bogus."
F*** the napkin !
Headstone, in danger of being trampled by midgets.
I will say it! even if Reg wont.
a standard 110v @32 amp or a 220V@16 Amp
220*16 = 3.52 KW
For Ten Minutes:
3520*60*10 = 2.112 MegaJoules
Divide 2.1MJ by 321.87 KM (200 Miles)
= 6.561 Newtons Force Per meter..
At 100% efficiency!
This is equivilent to a weight of 666grams pushing the car for 200 miles
SO I call Bull-Shit!
There is no way an average force of 6.5N will accelerate a car and overcome air resistance for 200Miles! unless its down hill all the way. Especially when you account for inefficinecies involved in battery charging and motor driving etc.
Does the. . .
delux edition run on 1.21GW, have a top speed of over 88mph and have its own Mr Fusion garbage powered nuclear reactor?
For $620 000 I'd hope so.
If this is using the honking-great-battery-in-the-garage method of recharge, it'd a) see a lot of worried firefighters b) massively increase the cost of the thing (though if you're buying a Shelby I don't think that'd be too much of a worry) and c) please wind-power advocates.
If everyone has one of these things (bear with me...) with a bit of electronics enabling power to flow back onto the grid, they could be used instead of pumped-water storage. Assume 53KWhr packs (quoted above for the Tesla's pack) per house, 25 million houses in the UK, we have 1,325 GWhr of energy storage, which is more electricity than we currently use per day (around 1050GWhr (based on 382TWhr generated in 2004). Even with the growth you'd expect from everyone driving electric cars, thats a handy reserve. Even if it isn't enough to buffer wind generation, it'd stop the use of inefficient gas turbines for unexpected demand.
Of course they could just be talking utter rubbish, which is far more likely.
it's so obvious people!
The experiments with the large halidron collider will allow mini black holes to be placed at charging centres, thus bending space-time and allowing a full 24 hours charging to occur in 10 minutes in normal space time...
Enhancement of the AeroVironment Phoenix SUT Technology
As Stewart Hayward points out, it sounds very like SSC has adopted an advanced form of the system demonstrated by AeroVironment in 2007 with their Phoenix SUT (Sport Utility Truck). "The milestone demonstration by AeroVironment saw the 35kWh (kilowatt-hour) battery pack developed for use with the Phoenix fully-charged in less than ten minutes - enough to power the five-seat utility for 100 miles."
and the links in the right side-bar, in particular:
Could they have ment
Change the Battery rather then Charge the battery?
Who remembers the Gravia lamp?
This must be from the same people who gave us the Gravia lamp:
"To light Gravia, the user places a mass [50 lbs] approximately 48" above the ground, that, in falling, powers a mechanism, generating electricity. Gravia harnesses the potential energy imparted by the user, rather than relying on any existing electrical infrastructure.
The design goal of Gravia is to provide light in a room (600-800 lumens roughly equal to one 40 watt incandescent lightbulb), over a period of 4 hours, using people to generate power."
The really scary thing is that this shite won 2nd place in the "Greener Gadgets Design Comp 2008"
Paris must have been judging!
"Maybe a 10 HOUR charge ?"
Some quick maths:
10h x 60 x 60 x 240 x 13 = 112MJ
200 miles @ 30mph = 6.7 hours
112MJ over 6.7 hours = 4.6kW = 6bhp. That feels about right for a constant 30mph.
Interestingly, that charge will last 150 seconds at 1000bhp, that's a powered range of about 10 miles (and perhaps 5 more for coasting down).
I've not heard anything about the battery life of Lithium batteries on these cars.
Lithium ion batteries last maybe 3 years tops and as the battery on one of these cars is probably 50% of the cost of the car, I can't see many people buying one when every 3 years you need to spend another $10,000 to keep it on the road.
That'll be one hell of a service bill!
Your electric Cooker in the home runs off 30A @ 220V, so that's probably the maximum rating for a domestic charger, not 13A @ 220V. :-)
I imagine in the USA, their electric cookers run off a higher current to compensate for the lower voltage.
Ye canny change the laws of Physics
Similar impossible claims are made by the British Lightening Car Company who use a NanoSafe (!) battery.
A 10 minute charge for supercar performance ?????????
I reckon it's a case of the 220 V supplying a big station at home over time and then dumping it in to the battery really quickly via huuuuuge cables.
It has to be a three phase supply.
Also there are original Prius batteries from 2001 still working after 350,000miles and a complete replacement set is $3,000.
A lot of "experts" on here need to do a bit more research...
Does anyone know the amp levels on a 220v power supply - NOT a 110v domestic socket but the type that powers electric ovens etc? As this is the type of line that will power charger, not the same as the one running your laptop, plus some clever electronics that nobody on here would stand a chance of understanding. FYI - some electric water heaters run 220v 120 amps, so where does 16 amp max at 220v come from?
Also, has anyone bothered to read up on "Nanotechnology Rechargeable Lithium Batterys" - these don't use the carbon based micro strings that current Li-on barreries use, instead they use silicon ones that are much more reliable, lasts longer, and should charge much-much faster than carbon based ones.
Also, with 100% torque @ 0 rpm (e.g. 100% efficiency - not something the US may understand when it comes to engines - "What, it does more than 3 miles to the gallon?" or "We took that 7 litre 400hp engine boss, here's our new sports car - it will do 0-60 in 8 seconds - WOW!!!") in theory this may be more possible than you think. But hey, 640k of memory was enough for everyone - right?
Glenn needs to do some maths…
220v * 120A * 60sec * 10min = 15.84MJ
200miles @ 30mph = 6.7 hours
15.84MJ / (6.7 * 60 * 60) = 657W = 0.88BHP.
30mph in a car at less than 1BHP? The other one has bells on!
My power shower is 8.5kW, and when I turn it on my lights dim (the 220V is no longer 220V)!
"Also, with 100% torque @ 0 rpm (e.g. 100% efficiency ..."
100% torque != 100% efficiency, even electric motors are inefficient at full torque when at low revs. 100% torque doesn't equate to full power output either!