Mozilla’s open-source Firefox browser accounts for 20 per cent of the worldwide browser market. So there’s no doubt Reg readers are outside the norm. In the first ten days of November, more than 47 per cent all of Reg traffic came from browsers using Gecko — the rendering engine at the heart of Firefox. The new Firefox 3 alone …
The reason there will be quite a few with IE 6 is that in some places like libraries, they have a fixed set of software installed and in my local library, they use IE6, Adobe Acrobat Reader 5 and most have Office 2000. So places like libraries where they do not want to update software are stuck in a time warp.
The reason that I have IE6 installed (although unused) is that I need the WGA in order to upgrade from IE6 to IE7.
Much like anonymous from Mars I also browse from work where I am forced to suffer the iniquities of IE6.
At home it is anyone of FF3, Opera 9.5 or Chrome depending on my mood.
You forgot 8
You also forgot IE 8, even compatability mode sucks. Microshaft should stop with the browser idea and concentrate on making an operating system that doesnt plain suck.
I hear winblows 7 might be better than the last attempt but im sceptical.
LONG LIVE FIREFOX!
Opera and me
I'd dearly love to use Operra, but they seem unable to make cookie-handling simple -- so I don't. There are a few interface things that always annoy me too -- but I could probably get used to them.
Until then -- Firefox all the way.
Perhaps most, if not all, of the people using IE5 and such are really using Opera and changing the user string? Would make more sense on a techy site than them being hold-outs.
I use Firefox 2 at work as not all the plugins I need work on Firefox 3. I use a mixture at home depending on what I'm working on at the time; Firefox 3 on openSUSE or WXP, NetSurf or Oregano 1 if I'm on RISC OS.
Yeah, I still have IE6 but it's only there to do things that lazy coders or greedy corporates with sponsorships to consider refuse to code up properly (hello, Juniper!)
@Fail and you
Err, I've never seen this site show any rendering issues with Firefox on linux?
Unless you call those annoying Flash adverts rendering issues ...
Need to use FF to turn off ads!
Using Mac Os, I tend to use Safari out of inertia, but if visit the Reg using Safari, CPU usage goes up to 100% instantly. I have to use FF with NoScript to save the battery and my legs. I seem to remember I saw the same with IE, but I now use FF exclusively on Windows.
Too much Flash may be bad for your click-through rates.
So who is using IE5 ? Me sometimes, my iPaq runs WM2003 and I'm pretty sure the mobile IE is based on IE 5, are all IE5 hits WinMo devices ?
Also to everyone complaining about Firefox 3 crashing, did you uninstall 2 reboot then install 3 ?
It can make a big difference.
"Really trying to think why people use firefox, beyond some intrinsic and unsubstantiatable point that 'open source is better' for some reason i've yet to work out, despite working on it for 3 years."
What utter nonsense. NEway, the main reason is extension support, notably Adblock. It is possible to block ads in Opera but it's very messy and doesn't update automatically. Opera is a decent browser, and the Wand feature is great, but I've given it a serious try several times over the years and I always end up back with Firefox - whether it was Ctrl-Enter on addresses not working (now fixed), websites not working properly, the annoying download manager... there was always something that annoyed me.
I'm more interested in Chrome, which is already very promising. With extension support (currently being worked on) and more features, particularly regarding privacy (I don't want it remembering my visited websites but I don't want to use the Incognito mode all the time), I can see it going places. The interface is superior. The features are great. It's based on webkit, which is more standards compatible and updated constantly (unlike Firefox, which takes aeons to make very little progress). I use Firefox 3 at the moment... it's far from perfect but it's currently the best out there.
Sounds about right, looking at my web stats: http://www.paullee.com/computers/index.php
@Francis Boyle & Cameron Colley
Problems posting comments with Opera? No problem with it here on Linux or XP (home or work). So it sure ain't Opera that's the problem.
Likewise cookie handling. It's simple and straight forward.
Firefox? Baaaaah. Baaaaaah. Baaaaaaah.
I'm often using GNU Emacs/W3M, personally, so that will be part of the 5% or so at the bottom of the list (I'm using it to post this comment).
If not, I'll probably be on Konqueror because my Desktop GUI is KDE.
I'm also another one hoping for the day when IE6 dies (please!!!).
Meanwhile on the other side of the internet
On my site, which admittedly a travel site rather than a technical one, the bias is very different. On there IE users outnumber FF 10:1.
Almost every visitor is running Windows (XP or Vista), but what's interesting is the XP:Vista ratio: XP now outnumbers Vista by just 2:1.
Windows overall outnumbers OSX by more than 100:1, and the Linux share is effectively non-existent. I have more search engine indexing visits than Linux visitors ;)
Oh, and for those in favour of making any site say "get a browser that works"; you're the main reason the general population dislikes Firefox. They don't care what they browse with, but they *do* care when someone prevents them from doing what they want to do. Putting the shoe on the other foot, how would you feel if someone set their website up to force you to "upgrade" from FF to IE? No, didn't think you'd be so keen on that ;)
If you try these browsers on an ASUS EEE PC, with a slow CPU and a flash drive, you'll see how much faster than IE Opera really is.
The interesting thing to me is not that Microsoft has been passed up by Opera and Firefox. It's that the gap is increasing. Microsoft has many brilliant people but is today a huge multi-headed bureaucracy.
It's Adblock Plus, silly...
Mayeb the higher than average Firefox counts are down to the availability of ABP + Filterset.G. Much as I love you, my dear El Reg, you are going a bit Ryanair lately, what with the bloody flash everywhere.
Tell them to bugger off
As soon as IE traffic drops below 25%, I'm guessing you can just put up a page saying "sorry, your browser is shite, get a better one" to any IE user. Just like so many websites did for so many years with regards to using Microsoft IE, where I got really tired of seeing the equivalent of "fuck off you non-Microsoft using pirate, we can't be bothered to create standards compliant websites and we're only coding for IE".
Turnabout would be SO sweet.
If those at work cannot install software, consider portableapps.com for your needs.
Hopefully your nasty admins are not blocking your useragent at your outbound gateway.... ;)
don't forget me, I'm at least 50% of that Opera Mini traffic
No problems posting from Opera.
I use Chrome at the moment. It's not quite ideal, but I was getting a bit fed up with FF refusal to implement some kind of multi-threaded / process model. For some reason, at the time I was first trying out Chrome, something made my FF installation highly unreliable, so I've stuck with it.
I had FF tweaked very much how I like it. But it seemed to start a) crashing quite a bit on my system and b) saying stuff along the lines of 'oh hai, I've upgraded myself to version n+1e-6, and that means TabMixPlus won't work any more. kthxbye'. Chasing around fixing stuff like that is *dull* in the extreme.
Actually, Chrome has also had it's odd funny moment, with the interface not responding or the browser crashing.
Opera's a good browser. Maybe I should use that more. I used to be put off by not being able to replicate my FF setup, but I've trained myself to be less fussy now...
close tabs (numpties)
Control F4 will also close a tab...because...wait for it!
it's a "document" within an "application" window!
btw, i can second that last comment about "coding for IE6". i do basic web dev and i write to FF and fix to IE...and it's usually quite a bit of fixing.
if i didn't have to do this browser compatibilty dance each time i got a bit of work, i could possibly shave 5-10% off the workload! (ahem, but obviously would still charge the same!).
i would also like to point out that the "first 10 days in november" thing, is not so exclusive. these sorts of 40+% figures for FF are echoed at w3schools.com:
..which i also like because you can look back over the progression/regression of FF and various other browsers, including the steady decline of IE, which is always nice to see! ;)
p.s. stuff and nonsense: http://www.eupeople.net/forum
We're all using Opera in "Pretend you're something else" mode
I've been using SeaMonkey for about a year now. It's basically a continuation of NetScape. Works fine for me, has only crashed once.
SeaMonkey 1.1.11 on Suse 10.3
got to love browser wars II
If most people are using firefox, and if all of those use adblock plus then really why would el reg bother to put ads on the site? I use Ubunbtu + firefox3 + adblock plus. Out of interest, who else uses adblock or similar?
I too would welcome the death of IE6.
Dumb and Dumber.
FF has had me worried ever since Mozilla decided that when I type w into the address bar on my laptop it should:
I also now use -f switched shutdown after a beautiful example of taking time off work / coming back to find FF3 asking: 'Are you sure? Wouldn't you like your browser to keep you logged in to Windows and your encrypted volume of security systems, banking and accounting details?' Aye, I was sure.
But I'll put up with anything rather than go back to flash overlays covering what I'm reading like some insane clown and monkeys asking to be punched.
@ David Ackrill re: Firefox upgrade.
Like you I found the transition from 2 to 3 to be a bit of a culture shock, what with the truly awful 'Awesome' bar and the childish 'Most Visited' features indicating that there is too much Google cash swilling around Mozilla at the moment. Bling and Web 2ness are the playthings of the marketing boys and they seem to be running the show now.
Fortunately the original developers of Firefox made it highly configurable and extensible so that it is relatively easy to get rid of the crap and still enjoy the security benefits of an upgraded browser. Go for it.
If you can't do decent markup...
It shouldn't matter what browser you use to surf the web, within reason. The issue at stake here is lazy and ineffective web developers.
Internet Explorer 6 - yes, it's a pain, but if you can't code your way around it's problems, then your pretty dumb.
Compared with 5.5, it's a godsend.
As for Internet Explorer 7, no problems. If you know what your doing, you can use the same markup for ie7 as you do for Gecko based browsers.
Version 5 was the final Internet Explorer for Mac OS, Mac OS X, Windows 3.1, Windows 95, Solaris and HP-UX. Maybe the aggregate of those users contributes something towards its surprisingly strong showing?
Indeed it would be nice to tell IE users to get lost. The most annoying example of "IE-only" sites I came across was when Royal Bank of Scotland introduced internet banking. I went to have a look at it in Opera, only to be told "For security reasons, the only supported browser is Internet Explorer". After laughing for about half an hour, I started looking for a new bank. For a banking site to say you must use the least secure web browser on the market was a bit scary, really.
One of the 3.6% Opera users here, though I do use Firefox occasionally for the sake of a couple of plugins. As for IE 7, I only ever use it for a single solitary website whose Shockwave content just won't play nice with either Opera or Firefox.
The Reg stats made me take a look at the stats for a little website I run that averages around 12,000 unique visitors a month, and I found we'd had 53.3% Firefox, 31.5% IE, and 5.3% Safari (what?)...
I use both firefox and Opera about evenly. The issue with firefox, where scrolling pages with fixed backgrounds is sooooo sloooow annoys me to hell - how come Opera can do it? Opera has annoying features too, eg why can't you right-click in the bookmarks menu and open a bookmark in a new tab/window like in Firefox? Horses for courses, I suppose.
Coding for IE6 is a chore
Umm, shouldn't you be coding for a web standard (WC3 etc) instead of for a brand of browser?
Methinks your IT department needs a review of WBP (World's Best Practice) for web development...
What about IE4?
Seriously though, what with all this talk of ABP, all I can say is that I disable it when perusing El Reg - this journalism lark doesn't pay for itself you know?
And, before anyone says it, don't fucking tell me about the wonderful world of volunteer citizen journalism - I don't want to get my news from an ill-informed 14 year old with too much time on their hands because they got bored of wanking, I already get my encyclopaedia from them after all.
Paris because she could make use of Cock Block Plus but has instead chosen to disable it entirely.
I don't what brand of browser people use, the differance between IE7 and Firefox is negligable to Joe Sixpack who only wants to check their hotmail/ebay/facebook.
I do wish people would upgrade from IE6, its a buggy backwards browser and makes the jobs of web-developers like myself miserable as we have to hack away at perfectly valid HTML/CSS to get it to work in a depreciated browser that AFAIK hasn't had an update in naerly 5 years.
Sadly, if we're asked to accommodate the Mac users in the 1-2% range then it will be a long time before the IE6 mob still in the 20%+ range gets phased out.
Try the middle button. It works everywhere, including the bookmarks menu.
Yep, Opera here.
Oh yes it does!
Might as well hide 'em, cos I sure as hell ain't gonna click 'em, sorry.
Companies (inc El Reg) know that a certain proportion of the readers will have ad blocking software and that some people just won't click obnoxious in your face ads, visible or not. They factor that into the positioning and amount of advertising to maximise the impact on the people left (a small percentage, I'd guess) that are likely to click.
Put simply, those of us who block ads ain't gonna bankrupt El Reg, so quit worrying.
Whilst you're analysing the logs, how about an OS breakdown while you're there? I'm sure I'm not the only one who would love to know what percentage of the site's visitors are running Vista / XP /OSX / linux ....
IE6 hanging around for a loooooong time yet...
The company where I work (~15,000 desktops) is only just starting to pilot IE7. On ~150 desktops. I think IE6 is going to be around for a veeeery long time yet.
Where I work
Firefox is the officially supported / recommended browser for my employer (IBM) and most of use update often. Also at least 30% of my office colleagues are using Linux as their main desktop Operating system (despite the fact that we do a fair amount of windows development - but thats what VM's are for).
Coding for IE / Opera / etc
Hmm having tried to code a page so it displayed correctly in IE / Opera 6( it was a long time ago) and netscape...
I can confirm coding for IE was and still is a PITA, God bless the "CSS hacks" that get around the major bugs in the rendering of items... Still using FF2 as well some of the addons I love using don't work in FF3 and well it basically fell over when i tried to install it seperatly - I think they need to seperate out the "plugins" folder...
I love browser wars, I need a laugh sometimes..
All your browsers are belong to me!
I don't use a browser. I just think it and it appears on el reg.
posted using FF3 FTW
@IE installed at work crowd
As Lee said in another post, look into FireFox Portable. As IT people, I'm sure you knew about this already, I'm sure it just slipped your mind.
@ Fail and you
Considering that this page passes W3C validation (4 warnings), any rendering problems you might be having with it is the fault of a shoddy browser. I'll admit I haven't checked EVERY page, on el Reg. Also I have flash, JS, and java disabled (which is always the case unless I have a need for them (when I do Tim Berners-Lee smashes an open standard on the pavement, with a sledge-hammer... all Gallager-like))
Yes, mines the one running Opera for Solaris, thanks.
What about me?
Where's my support for IE 4.0?
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