Re: Brent Gardner

Damn man, I was going to take apart this disgusting piece of tripe passing itself off as a review, but you already did it. Probably better than I could have done.

REG: Next time send Brent! Your guy is a complete wanker.

One bit you can't say enough: Windows 7 will be at best an incremental improvement on the "polished turd" of vista because it's the SAME CODE BASE!!! Really people, if you take crap code that was architected by imbeciles to be used by fools.... what do you expect? M$ blamed the device manufacturers. Sorry boys, it's your API. You decided to not support the XP drivers. Just admit it, catastrophic incompetence (and of course DRM) killed vista. It will kill windows 7 too. Of course that's a good thing and a wonderful monument to the free market vs corporate hubris.

Start Button

James, I could be wrong, but I believe the Start button first shipped on OS/2.

It seems universally accepted that DOS was .... ah.... "acquired" NT (generally considered a high point for microsoft) was significantly a rip off of OS/2 So much so that OS/2 programs would run on NT. Although the multiple command stack on NT was a HUGE improvement over OS/2.

Strangely enough Vista may be the first ORIGINAL OS code base Microsoft has EVER created.

Ah, little known trivia......

@James Dunmore

Looks like KDE4? I've used KDE4 (and immediately moved back to KDE3.5, I might add). Actually, the screenshot looked a lot more like RISC OS!

XPS 1339?

Bummer, I've only got the 1330 .... ;-)

Vista is great. Really. But that's on a PC with drivers and it's not an upgrade - and I think that's key.

At work, I've recommended not updating to Vista yet because I don't see any true benefits.

Windows 7 - I think take it or leave it; we had the naysayers about XP many years ago - so what's new?

A title is required

"No, I'm not pro-Microsoft, but I am anti-moron."

You sir, win the interwebs.

@Terry

No, NT was not a rip-off of OS/2, it was a rip-off of VMS. Windows NT (WNT) = VMS in the way that HAL = IBM. It was quite a while before they came up with New Technology as the expansion of NT.

And what's with all these people saying they love Vista? It is horrible. XP wasn't quite bad enough to make me switch to linux, but after 2 months of using Vista I had had enough and installed Ubuntu. Never going back now.

With regard to Vista

OK, we all know that Vista Premium or above works OK when installed from scratch on a contemporary PC. I would hope that if a hardware vendor expecting to sell a system with Vista would spec. the hardware out properly to give a good user experience.

Where I have a problem is them trying very hard to quash support for the perfectly usable 3-4 year old systems that still run XP very well, but do not have the oomph for Vista. Are Microsoft in league with the hardware manufacturers?

I tend to not dump systems that still work, so have three systems running XP on AMD and Intel processors between 1 and 2 GHz and using 256-512MB of memory and modest AGP graphics cards. The kids use them for their homework. So, I buy a new HP printer, and find that I cannot load the drivers on an XP system anymore, even though the printer used to have an XP driver disk (I actually have two of the same printer). The reason? Microsoft have forced other vendors to withdraw drivers that were designed for XP using clauses in their Windows licensing agreement. HP even said as much. They do not carry the drivers on their support website, and provided a helpful sheet of paper with the printer saying that I should keep the XP driver disk safe (the one with my earlier purchase) as HP would not be able to provide the driver after a certain date.

Not sure how the climbdown over XP sales for UMPCs have affected this.

Also, how long are other software vendors going to be able to produce AV, firewall, and other required pieces of software that rely on XP libraries and DLLs. I'm sure that when Microsoft actually decide to kill off XP for good, they will attempt to make all necessary utility software writers to dump XP as well using similar clauses.

I understand that Microsoft may not want to offer full support for older OS releases, as they have a business to run, and providing support forever is just not profitable (but I bet the US military get 10 years support from product withdrawal). But to try to get other businesses to drop support just to make users replace usable computers is just wrong.

Generally, my kids want Windows (one of my sons was very upset the other week because I do not have MS Office to allow him to continue some school work at home), even though I am a committed Linux advocate. Microsoft are just using their dominant position unfairly where ever they can. I know I can get a student edition of Office, but that is still £85 or so. Open Office is free, so why don't schools use it? Because Schools can buy one copy of Office, and then use it on as many systems as they want (and teacher's own PCs as well) without extra payment, effectively free. What chance have other software vendors got?

Anyway, rant off.

so where is the computer

Seems to me that all we do is to look at the tits and the colour of the arse.

The desktops are getting more and more alike, and we tend to forget there is more to it.

Where is the scripting, where is the ability to fight and prevent viruses.

Where did aspects of running programms disappear.

It is like we, - "you" started to look at cars compleatly ignoring the fact that they are supposed to be cars.

Do you like your new car,- yes, certaily it has the superb finnish, and with service pack five I can add wheels.

Perhaps we should accept the fact that computing and the commodity stuff are more and more wildly different things.

There are those who like to say that cellphones are more and more like computers.

Perhaps "computers" are in fact more and more like "cellphones" without the ability to be cellphones.

So where did the computer dissapear.

Perhaps among the 90% in the top500 supercomputers running Linux.

Perhaps where the size of tits and the colour of the arse does not matter.

@Jason Togneri - Start Button

You, sir, have just written the most humorous thing I have ever read on the interweb:

"the whole Start button paradigm which defined a whole generation of operating systems"

Yep, I reckon that puts Bill Gates right up there with Doug Engelbart. A true visionary.

Sarcasm aside, you've obviously never enjoyed the delicious irony of the bit where you're hand-holding a raw computer newbie through their first steps of computer use and they ask you how to switch it off.

"Er ... you press the Start button and then ..."

"The Start button? Really?"

"Yes, really"

Device Stage

"device vendors can customize what happens on connection... links can be advertising for add-ons and supplies...populated via a Windows metadata service, which means it can be updated at any time"

Oh joy. I can no longer decide I want to open up a folder on my camera's memory stick and copy the images off myself, but will be forced to use the camera vendor's crappy software. And they can update it at any time, whether I want them to or not, with even more crappy later versions. I can't wait.

is this really a good idea?

"device vendors can customize what happens on connection"

would you like to borrow my usb stick......

Search

I Swear that those images are just some modded vista install, and also, it has GOT TO be vista, as i can't remember the last time i had to "Search Control Panel"... They're right, i can't read 30-ish icons without getting lost, oh, wait... that's the "Classic View"

I think it's time for Microsoft to splice apart the computing world: there's your school-age chav, and then there's the kid with the thick glasses...

Microsoft needs to add an option for two different styles of chrome...

-The dumbed down version, for people who wonder what C:\Users could be

-An NT-like version, where everything is just in a Hierarchy, and we can find it, on our own, and install things without being asked if we would like a cookie... but with the art museum stuff

Are you on acid?

In what unreality was Vista anything but a step or five BACK from XP?

Bashing vista because it's fashionable?

Sorry but that's bollocks!

I bash vista because I am constantly reminded of it's usefulness by having 4 machines at home, one of which is encumbered by vista, I also have an XP Pro machine, an xp 64 machine and a madriva 2008 machine.

and at work I am a Software Engineer (not the mad eup kind but one with an accredited Engineering degree) and am responsible for design and implementation of ridiculously expensive industry software.

I notice that most (yes I am sure there are exceptions) of the vista lovers seem to be home users with a few network admins thrown in.

Well I am happy for you that your experience has been pleasant, but for me Vista and no doubt Win7, just continue MS journey away from the OS as a platform to run useful applications upon, towards a mobile phone interface with the applications included.

Someone asked why ppl love XP so much? Because finally with modern hardware it actually performs at a speed I want it to. It is only just achieving the sort of response times I am looking for in an OS on a quad core machine.

Vista IS slow, just as with XP, it by default has too many processes running in the background. I personally don't want to upgrade my hardware and software to achieve the same or less performance than I had previously - with the added overhead of a completely re-arranged gui to learn.

I personally find the interface is candy for candy's sake rather than adding much that's actually useful. Unlike say the linux desktop which without compiz is useful and with compiz looks beautiful but is STILL useful - much more useful than Aero

But the thing that really sticks in my throat with MS is their marketing strategy. With the NT4 to win2k switch and the 2k to XP switch they were smart enough to expect a good deal of inertia from the business community (who were by far their biggest customers).

But now there are millions more home users. Then the development of Vista took a lot longer than they expected. Suddenly MS need to accelerate the expected ROI.

MS have been trying to bully us all into the Vista experience through marketing and support (or lack of) strategies.

Businesses aren't particularly keen on having their investments in technology wiped out on the whim of MS. Just because they have a new OS, doesn't mean we should all have to instantly upgrade all our hardware, then re-acquire new versions of all the apps and utilities we use to get work done.

So since we are reluctant to spend literally millions to support MS' new OS we aren't particularly keen on spending money and effort writing software for an OS that we can't afford to switch to, and might not be able to sell due to most of our clients also not having the money or inclination to 'upgrade' all their systems to Vista.

In addition the total lies coming out of the MS marketing machine make me sick "Vista is a a success!" "Millions upgrade to Vista". We all know why they don't publish statistics for how many of those vista licenses have excersised the downgrade to XP option. Or all the pre-installed licenses where home users have wiped the install and popped in their XP disk.

The end result is that any business has to ask itself if it can afford to spend mega bucks on software from a company which completely disregards the capex and opex investments of its customers.

All of this is ignoring Microsofts weasely habit of ignoring all standards and are constantly trying to push proprietary extensions to languages and protocols to ensure a lack of interoperability and vendor lock-in.

MS are the worst kind of business scum and if you can find an alternative you should.

While it is tedious to learn a new gui and find apps and utilities to replace the current set you use (and in turn to learn how to use them). XP users are going to have to do that sooner or later.

Why not spend that time and effort learning something other than microsoft's evilware?

@ Sean Gray

"It'd just be nice if people were slightly more informed about it so that their complaints didn't sound so stupid."

Informed in what way?

Using Vista at work everyday has me cursing everyday. As I've said before, it's the UI that I hate in both it's Aero and Classic incarnations.

Not a fan of the GUI

I use Vista and i'm starting to dislike the Aero interface. Also, i'm not a big fan of the whole Ribbon thing either. I've used Office 07 to get used to it, but I don't know if i'd be willing to put up with it in most applications.

Personally, i'd like to see the return of the Media Centre theme that came with Windows XP: Media Centre Edition. I believe it was called Energy Blue or something?

Paris because she's also easy to use.

@Richard

"I remember having the same conversation with an ipod user when i asked them how to turn it off. "... you press the play button??!?!?!?!" :)"

Erm, there are only five physical buttons on a classic iPod. Which one would you suggest Apple used?

By contrast it would have been dead easy for M$ to put a shutdown icon next to the start button. :-P

Windows 7 short review (and comment)

F*ck me it's ugly, and just like Vista, *I* won't be moving to it.

Lets see a review based on an install as-it-is-now on typical user / business hardware - you could start by using a machine of similar spec to the most common hardware reported by Steam (which in itself is probably skewed towards a higher spec than normal).

Mine's the one with the latest Ubuntu beta in the pocket.

passes vista test

if its better than vista, that cant be saying much then.

Hmmm

I hope it is backward compatible with DOS.

There is no sign of Windows...

... becoming deeply ribbon-driven in this preview.

Thank the gods for that, I bloody hate the damned ribbon, it's made using Office and AutoCAD harder, for existing users, I have more calls from my users about where something is on the ribbon, when it used to be on the Tools menu, for example, than I care for.

The menus worked, give us the option to go back to them for crying out loud.

re liking vista

I loved a lot of feature in Vista, but after struggling with it for 9 months I had to face the harsh reality that it just couldn't meet my needs. (sounds like a bad relationship heh)

The basic stuff worked, beyond that everything was buggy.

I routinely switch from a dual monitor display to one monitor and one HDTV, and 50% of the time attempting this would result in a loss of any usable display and require 30 min to recover.

My eSata enclosure wouldn't hotswap, so I was forced to use USB 2.0.

My sound card never worked 100%. The microphone would never mute, it would always be replayed over the speakers.

Vista would crash whenever I tried to use 2 pass DivX Encoding ......

File transfers would slow for no apparent reason ....

And about a software I absolutely had to use, simply wouldn't run on Vista. I had to run Windows XP in a Virtual Machine ...

The only reason I stuck with Vista for so long was I wanted to be familiar with it so I could repair vista machines. But the only repair people are requesting of me involves a Windows XP install disk.

Symlinks

I heard that the Windows 7 filesystem supports Unix-style symbolic links.

Killer app

Hey, I've seen a major advantage this Windows version has over even XP. Is that a *real* image crop control in Paint? OMFG!

Still, I think I'll stick with Paint.Net.

Ribbons

Thank fekk it ain't all going ribbon-oriented. Those bloody ribbons are a nightmare - each time Microsoft do another of these so-called "improvements" it convinces me more and more to ditch windows completely.

How many comments on here in favour of ribbons? How many against? Nuff said...

<-- that, for the ribbons.

They STILL don't get it....

It's time for MS to draw a line under the client version of windows and start again.

They need to do something revolutionary, not just evolutionary.

What they are telling us we'll get in 2010, is something that's been available on other platforms for 3 to 5 years already. Come on. Stop the progression from one version of windows to another, bring a halt to windows development and start afresh on something brand new.

Don't shout at me about all the legacy stuff that won't work if you do that - it doesn't matter - the developers will bring out new versions of everything for the new platform. The newest PS3s don't play PS2 or PSX games - that doesn't mean the PS3 won;t be a success.

Apple did it with Mac OS X, ford did it when they killed of the Escort and replaced with the Focus.

There comes a time when you just have to stop playing the generation games, and start playing the creation game. That time is now.

better than vista... wow how hard can that be?

As someone who bought a laptop with Vista over a year ago, I I hate it with such a passion - it's such a fecking struggle to use.

File copying is a joke.. startup times a joke... UAC - gah turned that off immediately.

Sidebar.. you're kidding, alkl that memory for...?

I've had to reinstall it twice in 12 months... both times after Windowsupdate! -

Windows 7 has to be better than this... and I'm sure it will be, if my next laptop is a quad core machine with 8Gb of ram and 2 graphics card.

My next pc will run OSX, I'm done with windows!

@Evil Graham Re: Start buttons and Suchlike.

I've heard the old joke about how stupid people arn't able to figure out that the start button also turns the computer off. I always take time out to help out stupid people :o)

now, you might wonder why I think that these people are stupid. It's quite simple:

The start button is the _only_ apparent way of controlling a win 98/98/200x/XP OS when you are a basic user. icons on the desktop look like files, there's a clock in the bottom right corner, and then there is a shiny button in the bottom left corner that seems to make the computer do stuff. make them guess which one turns the computer off (hint, it's not the clock).

For further evidence that people having trouble grasping that one button can both 'start' and 'stop' things, I hereby submit to you a list of things that also use the same function/contraption/button to switch things on and off:

Computers (that physical button on the front... this should be stupid people's first hint), hoovers (vaccumers if you wish to call them that), cars, mixmasters, tv's, tv remote controls, computer screens, cell phones/mobiles (yes, the same button actually turns them off and on.. stupid isn't it?)...

From a design perspective, if a person who did not know that many if not most appliances on earth have the turn on/turn off function on the same button (children under the age of 4 and aliens spring to mind) then yes, they would struggle to turn said device off again after the initial glee of finding out how to turn it on. However, for most of us, the concept of using 1 button to do these 2 tasks are as ingrained into us as which side of the road to travel on (depending on the direction and the country that said travel takes place in obviously).

Wow, look at the time, not even 2 o clock and I've made my first rant of the day :o)

How much Windows Live integration?

Any particular version of Windows is designed not according to what users are asking for, not according to what issues need to be corrected, but by who Microsoft is trying to kill off in the marketplace at the time. Right now Microsoft wants to kill Google. I expect Windows 7 to constantly get in the user's face and try to force-feed various Windows Live components. And for that reason alone, Microsoft deserves to die.