back to article UK.gov plans 'consensus' on PAYG phone registry

The Home Office insisted today it had taken no decision on whether to force Britons to present photo ID when they buy a pay-as-you-go (PAYG) mobile phone. However, it confirmed it does plan to "consult" on the issue in the hope of forcing building a "consensus", despite immediate opposition to the plan from the world's biggest …

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  1. Dan S
    Unhappy

    Panopticon

    We aren't a police state and saying that we are seriously underestimates what real oppression is. HOWEVER, there is something incredibly wrong with a supposedly liberal democracy introducing such sweeping powers of surveillance. Furthermore the government has profoundly misunderstood its relationship with the people - we control them, not the other way around. If there is probable cause to suspect a serious crime then, yes, by all means bring out the wiretaps and MI5 - but leave everyone else the hell alone.

    I used to believe in the New Labour project. There was a point in time where, in contrast with Thatcherism, it seemed possible for a government to give a shit about people (e.g. minimum wage, equality legislation, civil partnerships, more money for NHS...). But it is hard to remember the good stuff compared with the avalanche of execrable bat shit crazy control freak reactionary bollocks. It's like someone read Foucault and decided to have a real panopticon, not just in a prison but actually out there monitoring all of us. Gah... I need a drink!

  2. ben
    Go

    Well...

    It's not the govt., it's the spooks that want this. Most politicians barely know (or care) what a sim card is.

    I can think of 2 reasons why mobile phones are impt. to terrorists - communication and bomb fuses

    Yes, this measure won't defeat the most determined terrorists, but it will make raise the barrier to entry for "muppets", like the one who turned up at a restaurant in wales last year and tried to blow himself up, or the pair who drove into Glasgow airport. Or Richard Reid. Remember - it might not stop them from carrying out an attack, but the registration of the sim will be valuable during the subsequent investigation helping the spooks prevent future attacks.

    I used to think that these seemingly superficial measures were pointless, but having done some research into terrorist incidents over the past 30 years, a surprising number were carried out by what I would call "muppets" - i.e. careless amateurs, so I think simple steps like this may actually be of some use.

    And lets face it, that fits with intuition - are you more likely to have a high or a low IQ if you decide to blow youself and innocent civilians up?

  3. Frumious Bandersnatch
    Black Helicopters

    @Jim Booth

    > What's next? have to show ID to do your grocery shopping? after all, I am sure you can buy all you need to make a bomb at your local Tesco's?

    Yeah. I thought of that too, weirdo as I am. Except instead of bringing the ingredients home, I wondered "what would happen if I assembled all the components in my shopping basket?" I suspect nobody would even attempt it, but I also suspect my fellow shoppers and/or security guards would pay little to no attention to what I was doing until it was too late. MWUHAHAHAHA.

    Er, excuse me. Back to normal now. Anyway, the ID card (or lack thereof) would make absolutely no difference in this case, as you'd have your bomb made before even approaching the ID checkpoint, er, I mean checkout. Point being ID cards do jack shit to prevent terrorism, no matter how intrusive you make 'em.

  4. Chris G

    Thank you JonP

    I have to confess to knowing bugger all about the civil war other than it's date and the fact that one or two of my ancestors in the Shrewsbury area wore big floppy hats with feathers in them and lacy shirts and they kicked a lot of parliamentarian butt.

  5. Dave
    Black Helicopters

    Pay and go?

    Jackie. If we pay you enough, will you just go and fuck off to another country and not come back

  6. ElFatbob

    @Jim Booth

    >>'What's next? have to show ID to do your grocery shopping? after all, I am sure you can buy all you need to make a bomb at your local Tesco's? They even <god forbid> sell sharp pointy things too!'

    That's exactly what's on the cards - not for the sharp pointy things, but because they intend to compell us to give all this information at various transaction points, so they can sell it to direct marketing companies. It's in the ID act...

    Oh, that and because of the rampant immigration that they can't control (because its inter-EU), they have realised they don't actually know who is in this country and that scares them.

    And to top it off we have the NuSpin Doctors trying to make Gordo some kind of superhero as a result of this financial crisis. That's got to be like Hitler saying to the Germans "It's a terrible war, but i'll get us through it"

    Scum.

  7. Richard Neill

    Good possible PR for a phone company

    If, say, Vodafone were to come out and say that it would seek to maximally frustrate compliance with any such schemes, and provide minimal co-operation with data-retention requests, I, for one, would consider switching back to them.

  8. The Fuzzy Wotnot
    Thumb Up

    Load of old tosh!

    So there's Abdul Ben-Psycho al-NutJob, down at the local Phones4U shop.

    "So Mr Nutjob, got your passport, photo's a little old not really like you, but nevermind, not my place to say anything. Just need a few details for the paperwork. Occupation?"

    "International arms dealer and radical terrorist sympathiser. Fighting a holy cause in the land of infidels."

    "Hmm, can't see a box for that one sir. Tell you what, I'll just put 'between jobs' eh?"

    "Right. Address?"

    "I have no permanent address. I am free spirit, righteous in my cause and with God on my side!"

    "Okay...I'll just put no fixed abode. How will you pay for this?"

    "American Express?"

    "That'll do nicely sir!"

  9. Richard Cartledge
    Stop

    Nu Labour ZOG

    Fascism as represented by Hitler's Germany, Mussolini's Italy and the Vichy France collaborationists most certainly contained right wing elements, but had at least as many leftist factions. Mussolini was a socialist (he was the editor of the Italian Socialist Party's newspaper). Hitler joined the German Labour Party and just as Tony Blair rid Britain in the 1990's of its nationalisation policies so did Hitler in pre war Germany.

    Whereas the much vilified Le Pen joined the Resistance against Fascism, former French President Francois Mitterand, later the leader of the French Socialist Party was a hero of the Fascist Vichy regime. The wartime leader of British Fascism, Oswald Mosley was a Labour minister and became the leader of the British Union of Fascists. His wife Lady Diana Mosley (91) recently declared in a BBC interview her opposition to Le Pen and her support for the European Union!

  10. Charles Smith
    Black Helicopters

    Pinocchio Government

    Buying a second hand mobile on Ebay are you sir? Don't forget to fill in your V5 Phone registration disposal document Sir. It is your job to check the passport of the buyer Sir, and to retain a colour Photocopy for 15 years Sir.

    As usual this UK Government is lying through its teeth. There is no real justification for demanding Id for the purchase of mobile phones, other than they want to control the innocent citizens. Next they will be demanding that the Crims register their machine-pistols.

  11. kain preacher

    @ ElFatbob

    I'm sure its the same in the UK, but here in the US you can go just about any were thats sells food, gas electronics and buy pre paid minutes cards. Just give them cash, call the carier up and read of the serial number on the back and you are good to go. Of course they can always tell which store you bought the pre paid card from, but not much else.

  12. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    already implemented

    Try buying a phone without giving a name and address of someone on the electoral roll.

  13. Pete Silver badge

    @Richard Neill

    Little to no chance of that I'm afraid. They've already caved in Spain. I've been told I have until sometime next year to go to a Vodafone shop with my passport to get my spanish PAYG (that I bought in the UK) registered. If I don't, the number will just be cancelled.

  14. Anonymous Coward
    Alert

    wot no mention of tracking?

    The main use of mobile phones for the state is to track everyone's movements. The uberdatabase will create the mother of all networks showing when people meet, who they meet, where they meet and how often - their local network. Phone calls simply show their remote networks.

    The weak link is to ensure everyone's registered so that all unregistered phones get greater scrutiny as is almost certainly the case now - burn down the haystack and search what's left for needles.

    The surprising thing is that the government doesn't give away the phones.

    Technology has outpacing the capability of society to come to terms with it

  15. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    @ Let me peer into my crystal ball By Anonymous Coward

    You're right! I'm off to Iran it's less oppressive.

  16. Beachhutman
    Thumb Down

    silly Billies

    This really does top the Prattery of the year poll for the prattyest suggestion since prat was a word. There are already 3 billion mobes in the world, including my 10 year old Nokia, and it is quite feasible to build your own out of assorted chipsets and sticky back plastic.

  17. Anonymous Coward
    Linux

    Prise my ID card from my cold dead hands....

    Thats just about it. My alter ego Mr Rusty Shackleford is now going to do all my interacting with Joky Spliff and the rest of these b'tards in power.

  18. Andrew Meredith
    Go

    For the Facebookers amongst us

    http://apps.facebook.com/causes/132426

    This is a Facebook "Cause" to promote the number10.gov petition to stop the "Communications Data Bill"

    Join it and push it out to all your Facebook friends.

  19. David
    Go

    Will she also ban international pre-pay roaming?

    So, basically for the average joe soap this is going to be another pain in the ass bit of bureaucracy. It's going to cost UK telcos money to do and generally be annoying.

    But, for the determined terrorist / criminal or whoever wants to actually bypass it. They just go on line / hop over to the nearest country which hasn't been silly enough to elect a dictatorship and buy a prepay sim without ID and use it in the UK while roaming.

    I mean, you can do this in the Republic of Ireland, France, Spain, The Netherlands, Most of Eastern Europe, the USA, etc

    Even if she managed to convince her EU counterparts to implement similar rules, I can't see many Eastern European and other countries all universally following.

    So, she'd have no option but to bar international roaming. Since this is generally reciprocal, it would mean

    a) Loss of revenue (big revenue) to UK operators for roaming calls in the UK

    b) UK prepay customers being barred from using overseas networks as UK companies would lose roaming agreements.

    So, it's clearly a win-win situation for the British public! Back to using payphones while you're in Spain on your holidays then!

  20. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Jaqui, the suicide bomber.

    So the Home Office will be seeking a "political consensus" in response to a public outcry demanding more intrusive spying? Well, bring it on, sweetheart, it's called a general election.

    I rejoice every time this woman or one of her conveniently anonymous clones (see, it works okay for them) open their gobs. Another nail in Nulabour's coffin. Roll on the funeral so that we can bury them once and for all.

    The stench from this totalitarian cesspit is so bad that I might just hold my nose and vote Tory for the first time in my life.

  21. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    @ Jim Booth

    Actually, when I recently attempted to return a faulty electrical product to Tesco the day after purchase, they refused to replace it unless I gave them my full name and address.

    Small claims court, here we come.........

  22. This post has been deleted by its author

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