Despite Microsoft's efforts to keep Windows 7 information secret and safe within a close circle of partners and testers until its good and ready, another round of screenshots has found its way to the web. Over the weekend, the ThinkNext.net blog posted a variety of screenshots purportedly from the latest batch of beta code, …
I will agree that OSS needs to learn some marketing and make things much easier for newbies. It's very confusing to be told "Oh, you just need to set x,y,x in nautilus and it all works" when you (as a newb) have no idea WTF nautilus is. (I think it's the "File Browser" in Gnome, but am not 100% sure - there is no documentation I can find to tell me). This does not happen in Windows. The Windows docs will explain Explorer, the equivalent on Linux is not always the case.
Each "component" has it's own project name (e.g. Samba for sharing stuff on Windows networks), these may or may not be obvious and may or may not be installed on your Linux distro. They tend to be documented separately and the documentation assumes that you have a high knowledge of Linux (plus networking, computer science etc), understand what all the various components are and how they differ (what is X, how does Gnome differ to KDE, why do they differ etc). This is not always the case.
When you do find docs, they are often years old and do not apply to the version of the distro you are using. This can make things really tough for a newbie. And there seems to be no central hand-holding doc which walks you through the major components in a coherent manner. With even simple config changes often needing the use of the Terminal (or extra components installed), it is vital for news to know what is what.
That's my one biog grips about the Linux world - the docs. Oh, and the need to use the bloody Terminal for everything. Having to do things with "sudo" all the time is an annoyance as well, but at least that is an annoyance which get be logically explained (it's called "security", something Windows could do with).
Most of our clients have decided they will remain with Windows 2000/XP or find alternatives.
Such bollox, I mean ooh a screen saver, really tells me to dash out and reserve a copy now dosnt it? is probably botched up Vista with some more crapware added & an even more fucked up user interface with the same crappy code beneath it.
But when the time comes for its release to the great unwashed at PC Rip of Wurld Ive no doubt it will be the best thing since sliced bread according to the sales people there - requiring a kilowatt or two to run a couple of quad core processors & wont be compatible with any other software at all apart from Malware viruses & trojans...
"You may catch them there before they're gone"
I prefer Wispa.
vista vista vista
stinks of shit, and this story has been totally fabricated to get all you goons to get into an argument.
you all need to get lives.
im already outta here!
Maybe this will help with the masses trying to view the new screenies
"I have never, even when I was 14, "jerked" off at covers of a magazine ... I used to practice on females ;-)."
When you were 14 you jerked off over females (*) ? I trust you had the decency to tell them it was good for their hair before doing the deed.
Paris, cos her hair's seen a fair bit of protein-enhanced conditioner.
(*) What species, out of interest ?
...we would have many more IT companies with us today that weren't destroyed as a result of MS's monopolistic business practices. The result would be much more competition in the marketplace and more technical innovation. Microsoft has probably set the development of IT back 10 or 20 years.
Oh dear, fallen for the "users are capable" dream have we?
Regardless of the OS and regardless of how easy to use an interface it sports, a user is a user.
The software (and/or choice of) doesn't improve them, only heavy objects to the skull.
I know a depressing number of users that struggle with simple mouse use, those who can't store any more than a single password in their brains.
That's not mentioning how the simple concept of file and folder management is totally beyond them.
Users just want you as an IT staff member to do anything that falls out of the "write documents and send emails" bracked cause they can't be arsed to think for themselves.
When I started in IT I foolishly thought I could train them to figure things out for themselves and that it was their fear of breaking the PC that held them back. 9 years has taught me that it's not fear, but abject failure at independent thought.
Windows, OSX, Linux, RISC OS, Amiga OS... doesn't matter what you give them, they're too stupid to use anything more than a pen.
Yes M$ windoze is bloatware+ with each release, and we are all sheep because we don't know any better (I will never buy another windoze machine again)... but you have to hand it to that Gates fella - he's no dumbass, having cornered the market in the way he had done.
started off good...
... but quickly turned into a fanboy flame fest! lol
Personally, I'm hoping they drop drm, speed up the OS - and keep a light implementation of Aero. I hate Vista now, but they had some good ideas, just failed in the execution.
Yes, they steal idea's - but so do Apple and Linux. So come on, there is room enough in the market for all 3.... personally, I hope M$ steal some idea's from the linux group and make Aero more like Beryl and Compiz... that way we will be able to skin our own windows, implement nice new 3d affects, and it runs fast on old hardware too. I had a pc that couldn't run Aero, but was amazing using Beryl, so I ended up running Beryl and switched between cube sides - as one side was XP running in VMware full screen... was nice setup really... but after a few updates it became a little unstable. Now I do the same thing using osx and spaces, with xp running in vmware full screen on a space window
Oh - and I hope they take some idea's from Apple too, like on have cmd+space for opening spotlight, which essentially becomes an application launcher... but they should keep the task bar, I'm not a fan of osx's launcher at the bottom.
Without a doubt, they need to implement stuff that is now standard in both linux and osx - like Spaces (linux did it first I know, but I can't remember the catchy name for it), widgets that hide until you press a function button, and active corners to do stuff like display all windows, switch screen, and other stuff.
I hope they manage to do all that - I would love to go back to windows and not vomit when I have to use visual studio.
Here we go again...
"Keep in mind the code is still deep in beta country"
So, retail release by the end of next month then?
"Apple designed the iPod themselves"
I think creative may have a bone to pick with that statment
I always love it when people speak of beta as some half done code.
Beta is functionally complete and in bug hunt mode iirc - someone please let me know if I'm mistaken in this belief.
Too much gets passed off as beta now adays when they should be at best alpha and at worst concept code.
And for those who missed the pics!
For those who did not see before the were pulled..
What if Win7 also bombs...
I was hoping Win7 would be a return to a decent OS and scrapping most of the Vista crap (aero, DRM, etc). What happens if Win7 is really Vista 2.0??
Will this be the catalyst which drives the industry to a non-Windows OS as the preferred standard? (No, I am not a Linux raver either). Heck, most productivity can be done on-line these days anyway. What is a client OS needed for? Most work can be done via a web browser on a free OS.
alphaxion, sorry dude, I have to disagree with your "all users are morons therefore will never figure out how to use any OS" attitude. Most of my family has switched over to OS X. I used to get loads of "how do I do / fix this" calls but now it's a rare thing when one of them can't work out how to do something. Likewise the company I'm contracting to right now switched all their machines over to Macs a couple of years ago. Instead of running around to one desktop after another fixing problems or showing people how to use the OS the desktop support guys are spending their time optimizing servers. Little details like being able to press cmd+, in any app to get your preferences make a huge amount of difference in terms of making an OS more intuitive. (Note to Microsoft, try a little *consistency* if you want Win7 to be better than previous Windows versions !)
@Law, give Quicksilver a go (http://blacktree.com) It's pure heaven in terms of app launching and does a lot more. I personally only use the dock for stacks now.
If it was left to ibm?
Gates is hailed as the visionary who changed our lives by delivering on the vision of a PC in every home. Certainly, Gates and Microsoft came along at the right time. Ken Olson, former chairman and president of computing pioneer Digital Equipment Corp (DEC), is famed for saying in 1977 he saw no reason why anyone would want a computer in their home. It was also IBM's lack of interest in building software for PCs that gave Microsoft its first break.
Had it been left to companies like DEC and IBM, computing today would likely be a different, analogue, green-screen world.
The challenge of Gates, though, is to put him - and Microsoft - into context. The dictionary defines a visionary as someone “given to fanciful speculations and enthusiasms with little regard for what is actually possible” or “a person with unusual powers of foresight”.
Gates turned computing into a mass market by his focus on “experience” on a low-priced Intel box. He had the “vision” to see what Olson couldn’t when it came to PCs: that given the accessible and affordable tools ordinary people - not just those individuals staffing corporations or the engineering and scientific communities served by IBM and DEC - could do great things with computers. His success, though, turned him into another Olson, a man whose beliefs became contained and defined by the market his company had carved out.
@ David Kelly
Thanks for the tip - looks like a useful tool, will give it a try. It looks like an osx version of the firefox extension Ubiquity which I've been getting used to recently, although much cooler.
Stacks are a very cool feature too, almost like a decent version of toolbars in windows which I use often for quick access to drives under My Computer.
Oh - and to back up your point to alphaxion - I got my father-in-law (nearing 70 years old) a mac mini for his hd-tv, so he had a place for all his photos and music, and could do better slideshows for the family, this was a good few months ago now. First week was a nightmare, with phone calls of how to get to his photos, and how to import them from his camera. Not heard anything from him since, yet he's been using it alot. This week is first time in a long time he's asked for help, he asked where to install the BBC iPlayer to. I told him he just goes to the same site he does on his PC, and it will stream normally... he's now caught up on last weeks tv after his trip to spain... and it was all pain free.
there is a way to fix this
Make windows 7 like Xp on steroids...not like vista on hemorrhoids.
@andrew checkley (Screenshots)
Sure. Kinda what I expected.
But the real question is whether it crashed faster than Vista, or just as slowly.
Paris, because she's not bad looking, is a resource hog, has succeeded solely on marketing, and goes down a lot, too. Dump Jerry, Paris is VistaME/Windows 7's ideal spokesperson!
"Reports indicate that a feedback tool included in Milestone 1 lists some coming features: the ability to store Internet Explorer settings on a Windows Live account, updated versions of Paint and WordPad, and a 10 minute install process. In addition, improved network connection tools might be included." (Stolen from Wikipedia on 9/24/08)
Let me edit out the parts not relevant to my freaking out here. . .
A 10 MINUTE INSTALL PROCESS!!!!!!?????
Ummm why do I have a feeling that the "10 minute" install process will be for the alpha releases and by the time it hits Beta it will be closer to 30-45? Not I dont support M$ because I think they are great and the next best thing since sliced bread but because I game and therefore I am. Anyway that being said Im going to freak out some more.
For those thats are wondering what that means. . .
Oh My Fucking God, Son Of A Bitch A Ten Minute Install From Microsoft, Say It Aint So Is The World Going To End? God Help Me.
/Anon because I dont want Jimbos rabid crowd on me for lifting information they "wrote"
/Black Chopper because I think they know who I am anyway
@law @david kelly
The overwealming number of users I have encountered simply can't cope with anything like that - my own personal experience over 9 years of being a sysadmin.
If you have a bunch of people that have been able to actually use their machines then great.
But from my own experience (I'm not just toeing a well worn tech meme) the majority of the users will struggle with anything you give them. If an application doesn't have an icon on their desktop "it's not installed" instead of having the presense of mind to actually look for it on their systems.
I've had some of them come up to me with their spiffy new macbooks and ask how to use the damn thing. I've had them stumble over and quiz about their mobile phones. Almost all of them can't understand how to swap out a toner or clear a paper jam.
As I said, if you've encountered users that were able then great. But I've encountered a lot more who aren't no matter what device it is.
RE: @law @david kelly
"But from my own experience (I'm not just toeing a well worn tech meme) the majority of the users will struggle with anything you give them. If an application doesn't have an icon on their desktop "it's not installed" instead of having the presense of mind to actually look for it on their systems."
Unless you work where the general IQ is around 50, I am absolutely shocked you have so many comp-u-tards asking for that sort of basic help on a daily basis - they should be sacked if it's a regular thing, as they obviously can't do their jobs properly.
I can understand when users think it's quicker to annoy sys-admin than look themselves, they see it as your job to make sure they know where things are, not theirs. I've worked in those places before, hell, I've been a sys-admin for a smallish company before, and even upgrading their outlook and exchange caused an uproar - but that's work, people leave their brains at the door... I highly doubt they would be like that at home on their pcs! :)
Re: If it was left to ibm?
"Had it been left to companies like DEC and IBM, computing today would likely be a different, analogue, green-screen world."
Improbable, to my mind, but irrelevant since there was always Apple to show what a small machine was capable of and Sun or SGI to show what mid-range hardware was capable of. The market in the early 80s was pregnant with solutions looking for customers. As the price of hardware fell, the customers started buying. That was always going to happen.
Microsoft's contribution was to recognise how hard it was to switch OS and therefore how important it was to make sure it was *your* OS. All those workstations made the "mistake" of using the same basic OS, so customers saw a competitive market. Apple tried to do the same as MS, but controlling the hardware instead of the OS, and they had only limited success because they couldn't compete with Intel.
20:20 hindsight is a wonderful thing. You should try using it.
So far, it looks little more than a minor makeover for a few bits of Vista. It's still got Vista's default Aurora wallpaper and Paint looks just as rubbish as ever from what I can see in the ribbon.
If only the WINE project could get its hands on a few disgruntled former MS coders...
Oh yes, eye candy. Someone mentioned Compiz Fusion earlier. If you haven't discovered it yet, search for it on ewe choob and drool in amazement. And unlike Vista, it doesn't wreck your system performance whilst it draws all those pretty effects.
Meanwhile, somewhere else on Windows 7 News, there's mention of possible tighter integration with Live Services. So probably instead of installing gigabytes of barely functional MS ripoffs of any rival's market leading software, it'll just provide links to MS online versions, which of course will be designed to work so much better with W7 than any other OS. By seemingly only providing URLs to Live Services, they'll probably get around regulatory hurdles - but what they won't reveal is how closely the Live and W7 teams worked, or how much code you'd need to download from Live to get the apps working if you don't have W7 installed...
if(browser != "IE8")
printf("You need to upgrade your browser to IE 8");
if(os != "Windows7")
printf("You need to upgrade to Windows 7 to make use of all the functionality of this website.");
My two pence
Well i guess if all the idiots cant figure out how to use Vista Changing the name to Windows 7 and charging a little more for it is an ingenious money making strategy. If they cant figure out how to do a google search on how to turn off user account control they deserve it. But o dear you shouldn't turn off user account control as you wont be protected from yourself? Well I say if you used XP without it you can use vista without it too. Go get yourself a good firewall. And turn the crap off. You should never run anything Microsoft makes on the internet without a good firewall in my opinion XP 2K or anything. What Microsoft should do is embed a good firewall into the kernel like linux. And people that cant figure it out will just have to hire someone with a brain to set it up for them. There is something to be said for making somthing idiot proof. It is that when you finally do it only an idiot would use it. "User acount control" point in case!
Just my two cents
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