The UK is in dire need of ballet dancers, fish-gutters and sheep shearers - but not, it seems IT staff. The government’s Migration Advisory Committee today published its “list of occupations for which there is a shortage of skilled workers in the UK and Scotland”, which will provide the backbone for a new points-based system for …
"will no doubt stun IT employers, who are seeing their wage bill rise as they compete for competent UK-based techies"
Maybe, but it won't stun those of us who are perfectly compitent but can't get an IT job in this country for love nor money because there are non available.
It got to the stage last year when I just said "enough is enough" and became self employed. Now I earn more than I could have possibly hoped for with *any* IT job working for a UK company by servicing clients mainly in the US, where they /actually do/ have a skills shortage. Best part is I can do it from pretty much anywhere in the world if I want to, all I need is an internet connection of 2.5G-ish phone speeds and a computer. Take *that* HMRC.
Trya self built NASCOM, and a Zenith. (oh and I still have 2 Beeb's here in Aus ;-))
Govt priority makes sense according to other Reg articles
According to the Reg article here http://www.channelregister.co.uk/2008/09/09/it_spending_research/ there is going to be another glut of IT workers soon.
try Annan (Scotland) about 200 fisher cutters out of work.
Jobs taken by Poles and shipping spawns over to Thailand for de-shelling then back again for breading.
And Derek Hellam has it right.
@"how about" AC
"Not accepting anybody, and training up the lazy, unskilled, wastes of space that constitute a large part of the indiginous population sat on their fat ar*es claiming benefits."
Cheeky bar*****. I've been out of work since one of the big Outsourcers decided I was surplus to requirements and dumped me. I've got over 15 years experience in IT (Operations starting when computers really were computers instead of these stupid little cabinets where the normal "fix" is just to switch off and back on again, and Desktop Support for sites with over 1000 users) but I can't get a job as I live on the south coast and it is obviously impossible for me to actually get into London (which is where many of the jobs are) - everything seems fine until they (the HR people and the Management) ask where I live and then it's like "Oh, okay, we'll get back to you."... only they never do.
Given the choice, I'd rather sit on a train for nearly five hours a day and do an honest days' work than sit on my fat ar*e claiming benefits. The few IT jobs that come up down here don't pay enough to live on - especially with the onset of the "credit crunch" - so London is basically the only option for me.
It's more to do with making the Government look like they are Doing Something about preserving British skills and people since they cannot stop the influx of people from within the EU - but given how many people have been laid off by CSC, EDS, Fujitsu, IBM etc over the last few years (all "low-level" technical staff - programmers and network, user and server support types in particular), if HMG tried to let more IT techy-types in, there would be an outrage. Well, a few tears would be shed and there'd be much wailing and nashing of teeth, but it would still be a few more people NOT voting for Labour come the Election.
And as far as I can see, Scotland is trying to secede from the UK. The only reason they haven't cut all ties is because our wonderful Westminster overlords keep sending so much money home^H^H^H north of the border (ever noticed how many Cabinet ministers are Scottish?) - hospital parking near me is £1 for 30 minutes and £1 per additonal hour, I know people who can't get medicines they need as the local NHS Trust cannot afford it and kids round here are paying a fortune in college fees. Perhaps Gordon Broon should pay a few Polish builders to come over and rebuild Hadrian's Wall...
UK and Scotland...
The Americans have been making this mistake for years.. is the author American?
Then again most Americans still use the term England when refering to Britain, which used to be a common term for the British as well in the age of the Empire, but shows their really not in touch with modern Britain or its people, then again geography was never their strong point. *lol* j/k
*\. Mines the one with the Map of the United States of America and Iowa in the pocket.
That's because money coming down from Scotland is so rare no-one's actually seen it.
"Which of these did you own as a kid: ZX Spectrum, Commodore 64, BBC Micro, Amstrad CPC, Sinclair Research 380 or WTF?"
Amstrad CPC 464 ... Still got it somewhere ... That scream of the tape deck as it loads that 5000 line program I copied line by line out of a magazine still haunts me now.
Still wont result anymore computing jobs
The same prob will still apply, recruiters will still attach "5 to 15 years experience" to an entry level position ad. Then they will just bring someone in from Europe and then lobby for more Indian peninsula nationals to "fill the new skills shortage"
Try applying for a job in England when you live in Scotland and mention you would be willing to re-locate (paid for by yourself)...the reply -> "you don't have x skill so we can't interview you" a skill not mentioned in the ad at all "oh well its not so important to have this skill if you live locally" - get lost you jock bast**d
People wonder why a rising number of Scots want independence?
If anyone actually cares about the real reason Scotland has different immigration criteria
We have a declining population and different skill shortages to England. This has the fortunate side effect of reducing the numbers of xenophobic fuckwits whining about overcrowding and so we actually _want_ people to move here.
You could probably say the same about Wales but a couple of years ago people got pissed off that the Westminster government was raiding and deporting people who'd grown up here because immigration rules were being defined by the Daily Mail via the Home Office. Cue large protests and disruption & occupation of Home Office buildings, followed by pressure on the (then) Labour Holyrood government to do something.
No, you probably didn't hear much of it in London. Wouldn't want to give people ideas.
What they (Labour in Scotland) then did was make hollow promises about ending dawn raids on families and win this small concession that Scottish needs should be taken into account when defining these kind of immigration hurdles.
So we have rules that suit our circumstances rather than London's.
Direct Action Gets Satisfaction, once again.
(When will IT people realise that they've got the power to cause enough disruption to bring down governments and all the shitty bosses they've ever had to deal with? Much more satisfying than bitter rants against "fat chav scum" and "social parasites"...)
@AC : Unemployment.
>but I can't get a job as I live on the south coast and it is obviously
>impossible for me to actually get into London
I've moved house for every job I've had, try it, it's not so hard.
Although I appreciate your dilemma, living on the coast would be nice, but they put all the IT jobs in weirdly crap locations like Reading or Slough. Why don't they set up along the coast or in the Lakes where we'd all love to move to?
there are zero reasons to import i.t. people. i work with eastern europeans on a daily basis and have never seen any of them, just like i have never seen the guy who contracts from devon. can't think why we have not exported his job yet .... gives me something to aim for this afternoon i guess.
doctors? there are many without jobs now! lower their salaries like any other occupation with too many bodies being supplied ...
right man for the job
The group I'm with has a fine bunch of play it by the rules Swiss and German IT guys - great for a company in the over-legislated Pharma industry.
But we do have one Russian FixIt, who knows how to crack windows, intranet, file systems, security,... to get a result - Hi Igor.
How does one move to London when the price of one's house anywhere else would buy a cardboard box in Peckham?
pretend IT people - Ageist Pillock!
> Sorry, but there should a certificate that you need to work in IT and in the middle should be the question: Which of these did you own as a kid: ZX Spectrum, Commodore 64, BBC Micro, Amstrad CPC, Sinclair Research 380 or WTF?
Well, I guess that demonstrates that el Reg is not immune to publishing ageist nonsense provided by its readers.
Would the idiot who made that suggestion care tell tell us which of those very recent machines was played with by any of the founders and developers of Information science, computer science, software engineering, or information technology? I mean people like Tom Kilburn, Alan Turing, Freddie Williams, Grace Hopper, Betty Holberton, Maurice Wilkes, John Backus, John McCarthy, Ralph Griswold, Chris Strachey, Ted Codd, Alain Colmeraur, Robin Milner, Chuck Moore, Charles Bachman, Claud Shannon, .Ralph Hartley, .... there are many more who were born too early to be kids when the machines you name were released - and some are still going strong. Indeed, if we take "kid" as meaning under 16, 43 years now (under 16 in 1981) is too old to have had any of those machines as a kid.
Anyway, I'm not ashamed that the first computers I worked with with were FP Orion, IBM1620, Elliot 503, Atlas 1, Deuce , or that I worked with those machines a decade and a half before C.R. Evans wrote "The Mighty Micro" (and he died two years before any machine on your list was released).
Since the ZX Spectrum is on your list, maybe you think Clive Sinclair had a toy computer when he was a kid? If so, I'm glad to disillusion you: he didn't.
Maybe you think the youngsters in the Acorn Proton team played with toy computers when they were kids (for the youngsters on the team like Sophie Wilson and Steve Furber, that would be maybe seven or eight years before the Proton became the BBC Micro)? Well, if so: wrong again!.
So take your crazy idea that no-one born before 1966 could imaginably be qualified to work in IT and stick it somewhere where the rest of us don't have to look at it.
This whole debate is a big red herring. The points-based system does not apply to "intra company tranfers", which is where a company brings an employee from one country to work in another. For IT jobs there is no meaningful control on this, and the numbers of work permits (under the old system) for IT workers have been high and rising.
In practice, this means the big corporations can use cheap labour to depress wages, while the government makes it hard for anyone not employed by such companies to travel here for work. Ordinary punters lose out whether from the UK or abroad.