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back to article gOS - a Google good OS for your Mum

What's free, looks like Mac OS X, just works and is actually Linux? The answer is gOS, which recently launched a new beta that builds on the distro's initial success and adds new tools like integrated Google Gadgets for Linux. When it launched onto the scene late last year, gOS (which stands for good OS) made quite a splash for …

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Aware

I am aware of text mode install, but it was not an option on the iso.

The pc would easily run with only 256 mb if configured as a linux network firewall + postfix anti-spam gateway (placed in front of exchange or other), and probably handle rejecting mail for 800 - 1000 users.

gOS just looked simple, and like it might be enough for a 5yr old, while having enough compatibility too. But i am not buying more RAM to run (very basic) 90's era edu games.

For some linux distros: I think it is silly to have high res splash screens before, during or right after setup. Because of this, I prefer the alt install iso or the jeos install.

Marketing tip: GO'S, instead of gOS

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Thumb Down

Jonti - Flash Vs Shockwave

It depends on the games, some use flash, some use shockwave.

eg http://www.flash-game.net/game/41/snowcraft.html

Looks like more games are using flash than they used to, but you can still bet that the ones your kid's mates are all playing is a shockwave one...

Anybody got Windows Live Messenger running on Linux??

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Flame

Why on Earth?

Why on Earth would anyone do a FRESH install of Photoshop CS2 nowadays?

CS3 is a year and a half old already. If I were to buy a new computer with gOS, and then buy a fresh copy of Photoshop (you're not suggesting violating the original licensing by installing copies of Photoshop across multiple computers, are you?), what I'd be buying is CS3.

Under any common circumstance, the proper phrase to use in this review is "Photoshop completely fails to run, or indeed, even install under wine."

Running some arbitrarily old version of Photoshop isn't much of a selling point.

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Yawn

Politics replaces substance these days. Instead of real operating system evolution and innovation, we have an army of true believers convinced that going back to the old UNIX operating system is "elite". The look and feel of Apple and Windows OS, and MS Office suite are mindlessly copied, and we are told that is also innovation. Windows NT features are shoveled into open source kernels...more "innovation". Linux becomes as bloated and badly documented as Windows...immitation is the sincerest form of flattery.

And all the while, the dogmatic mantra...collective action, amateurs are as good as professionals, the intellectual property of inventors and programmers belongs to society, software should be free. It's like reading an Ayn Rand novel. It's like watching the Soviet Union making copies of Pentium chips, with the Intel logo still left in the photoresist.

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Bronze badge

@Gilbert Wham

"Can't get it to play nice with VMWare, and it hangs on the live CD, so there's no chance of it getting put on a HDD of mine yet..."

You're obviously not in the target market so why are you botherinng?Apparently so you can whinge.

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Linux

perhaps

Is there a gcc package for it ? Perhaps I will trade in my fedora for it, while I wait for RH to come clean.

Give me gcc, I can build whatever hackish bits I need to feel at home.

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@ Gareth

Well, no, quite possibly I am not. But if it was nice and fluffy and easy to use, I have lots of friends and family who might rather appreciate it what with their children infecting their windows boxes and them being generally stupid. I'll check back when it's out of beta. If that's alright with you, of course. Does anyone have anythying *helpful* to say?

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Re: Don Mitchell

If you want a principles fight Mr Mitchell, I'm quite willing to give you one.

Watching a market of people constantly manipulated into consuming a single capitalist system busting product should be enough to raise the heckles of any true blood capitalist. How the free hand of the market has been tied down by a lack of market regulation of monopoly power is a travesty worth political introspection. See Adam Smith on monopolies.

The fact that the product in question is an information and production tool involved in business, industry, government and social organisation makes it a social and political problem as much as it is an economic drain.

Now, those who are cheerleaders for the Free Software world are doing so for social and political reasons as much as for technical excellence rationale. Those who are promoting Microsoft and Apple do so because of their emotional attachment to certain brands and products. Very rarely have I ever heard a logical reason for using Windows that wasn't because someone's freedoms were already stolen.

As to your general point about politics replacing substance, well you know I think I read somewhere that practicalism is much like masturbation, some say it causes blindness.

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@Gilbert

I just installed it using vmware server without a problem on my notebook. Of course it didn't perform as well as if I had just installed it on the system directly, but it was usable. Didn't have to do anything special.

I'm not a huge fan of the setup, though. It felt a lot like Mac OS X, but just not as nice. I'm not the target market, though, as I run X just so I can have a ton of shells open, tabbed, with screen running in most of them. Oh, and of late, so I can play World of Warcraft. I'd imagine it'd handle WoW fine, though, as it is based off of Ubuntu. My desktop is running Ubuntu 8.04, with wine installed from the distro, and WoW installed with no issue and runs like a champ (AMD X2 4200, 2 Gigs RAM, GeForce 7800.)

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Gates Halo

The trouble with Linux

The trouble with Linux is that it leaves out the intermediate users. The people you might "power users", they're not satisfied with an "internet appliance" but they don't want to spend hours mucking around in text files either. Admittedly I've had over a decade to learn Windows, so it's not exactly a fair comparison but it's still the best compromise between power and ease of use that I'm aware of.

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IT Angle

@Mad Hacker

What Linspire is nothing like GOS and almost every confusing thing has been removed (Although it has been a while since I have played about with GOS)

For anyone who just wants a pc I think GOS will do, although I havent tested the WINE bits (Didn;t realise it was there)

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Linux

MSN CLient on Linux

I have used Pidgin on my Xandross EEE and apart from lack of the webcam the parties on the other side have not been known if I am using that or Trillian on the Windows machine.

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Wine critics

Wine is unfortunate. It's rather like calling people who would rather we didn't have nuclear weapons ANYWHERE "nuclear critics".

If closed source had not been picked up and gone on so long it became "accepted", Wine would not have been needed. We could have recompiled the code for a new OS.

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user accounts given root permissions

That's why I didn't like Linspire/Lindows and also why I don't like Ubuntu. All you need to hose your system is your ordinary user password.

It makes your "root" account your user account.

It's also difficult when you're digging around because there is no root and so each attempt to see what's going on is preceded with "sudo". A pain in the bum.

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@BatCat

"Issue #1 - there is no Shockwave plugin for Linux."

??? Shockwave not equal "Shockwave Flash"???

"Issue #2 - Linux MSN compatible chat clients are not 100% compatible."

It is when MSN stop fucking about with the protocol. MSN clients are not 100% compatible with AOL servers. AOL not 100% compatible with MSN servers.

"Issue #3 - windows only games

Plenty of windows games, commercial and free downloads, don't work with wine."

And plenty of windows games, commercial and free downloads don't work with Windows. Some were written for Win95/98 and don't work with XP. Some for XP don't work with Vista, any for XP won't work for 95. Dos extender games won't work with XP/Vista.

Plenty will work with Wine. And many of those are the older games. Which don't require more than 256mb of memory.

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Paris Hilton

re: The trouble with Linux

"The people you might "power users", they're not satisfied with an "internet appliance" but they don't want to spend hours mucking around in text files either."

Have a look at what we "guru's" call "a full distribution".

Red Hat.

Suse.

Mandriva.

Debian.

etc.

These have "administration" tasks that are a GUI front end to the text file.

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Nothing special going on here then

gOS is based on Ubuntu, so its no great surprise that it just works then. Ubuntu pretty much just works, the only hardware driver problems are with suppliers who have an anti open source stance, which is becoming less the case.

I've installed Ubuntu for Windows users, and they've been pretty happy with it and the apps from the repositories. Including Skype is a good Idea its the only non standard repository app I've ever been asked to install.

If gOS takes usability a step further for the Linux platform that's good, hopefully the outcome will be more usable apps released to the community from Google.

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Flame

@ Mark

Shockwave.

There isn't a shockwave plugin that works natively on Linux, ie without running a windows version of a browser with wine. Shockwave isn't the same as flash, some games use shockwave, those games won't run on a linux browser. As luck would have it, most of the games my kids want to play are shockwave ones.

MSN

I don't give a monkey's *why* MSN clients on linux don't support the full feature set of the current Windows MSN client, the fact is they don't - the net result being a degraded user experience. No webcam, no audio, no plugin games, limited silly nudge / wink / smiley thingies.

Games

Specifically, the games my kids want to run don't run on Linux with wine, they do run on XP though.

The most important thing to bear in mind with IT solutions are the User Requirements - unfortunately Linux fails to meet the requirements of my users so I can't use it as a solution - regardless of however much I want to. Yes, Linux is adequate for some users (me included) but it's unlikely to ever be the right OS for everyone, or even the majority of users.

The trouble with Linux is that there is no compelling reason to choose it instead of windows. Yes, we techies can all go on about some aspect that *technically* makes it better than windows - but most PC users aren't bothered about stuff like that. Betamax was technically superior to VHS, Philips V2000 was arguably superior to Betamax. VHS won - the history of technology is littered with similar stories...

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@BarCat

"I don't give a monkey's *why* MSN clients on linux don't support the full feature set of the current Windows MSN client, the fact is they don't"

But you can't blame linux for that. Blame MS.

And the linux clients eventually work and keep working until MS change, so the "outage" isn't long.

Please send me a link to the "shockwave that is not shockwave flash" because I don't believe such a beast exists.

"The trouble with Linux is that there is no compelling reason to choose it instead of windows."

And windows vista has no compelling reason to choose it. Which is why MS are determined to ensure you CANNOT CHOOSE.

Which is nice of them.

In fact, XP doesn't have a compelling reason to choose it. It's that your applications you choose are fixed on one OS. That isn't a "why", that's a "must" and you *like* being coerced?

Will your games work on Vista?

"unfortunately Linux fails to meet the requirements of my users"

You mean your kids. Don't go larging yourself. And most of my games don't work on XP. The games I have that DO need XP do work under Wine. So if you want to continue to use that crap reason make it a good reason by putting it in context:

"For some games that my children want, wine won't work" and don't come with the arse-pulled factoid "most games won't work with wine". you don't know that, you just know in the very limited scene you have, wine doesn't manage.

PS: if you don't care about why something doesn't work, how will you know how to fix it? That you don't lends credence to the idea that you are not denying Linux applicability because of your needs but denying it to ensure it fails. Why?

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Boffin

Using gOS right now

Well, I'm just running it off the CD. But gOS seems pretty decent. The strangest thing so far is what it does when you try to open any Windows text file. It gives you a dialog box with the opens [Run in Terminal] [Display] [Cancel] [Run], which is hardly user friendly. And if that takes you more than 5 seconds to figure out, it throws up an additional dialog box (in front of the first) informing you that you can exit the dialog box by clicking cancel.

But that complaint wouldn't apply if you installed gOS from scratch. Honestly I see no reason why it wouldn't meet the needs of an average computer user. I was pleasantly surprised by how well Wine works too, though it's not perfect.

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Linux

@ Don

'Windows NT features are shoveled into open source kernels...more "innovation".'

Er... care to elaborate?

On a more random note... why does everyone seem to want Linux desktop environments to look/feel/behave like Windows/Mac OS/etc.

Also, I can understand why people want open source to be widely used, as this leads to community reviews of code, etc... but why all the zealotry? Surely it doesn't matter what people use, if it's all open source.

@ whoever said vi(m) should DIAF:

Hey, I like vi(m), I find it easier and quicker to use than these silly GUI text editors. Just because you can't get your head round it doesn't mean that everyone should stop using it. (If that logic worked, nobody would be using windows, cause I can't get my head round that... ;) )

Open source user and proud of it. (Linux on all the PCs in this house... gentoo on mine, and openSUSE on the ones the family use. No complaints so far. :D )

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This post has been deleted by a moderator

Linux

Simple to use root instead of sudo

One time sudo

sudo passwd

Then you can log in as root.

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Linux

Device support

I'm sure one can rebuild their own kernel from scratch to get around the limited devices support ;) That, or you just download and build the module separately yourself in the event that the module ships separate from the kernel due to licensing isses.

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Linux

@ Mark - You're missing the point...

1) I'm not putting Vista on my kids PCs, they have XP. When did I ever mention Vista?

2) I've never found a Linux MSN client that supports video & voice. I *know* this is because MS doesn't stick to standards, but that's not the point. The point is, it does not work & probably never will - unless MS adopts some FOS standards, which is highly unlikely.

3) Errrm... yes I do mean my kids (and my wife) are my users in this scenario. It's just an example. Most of the gOS target demographic will be in the same boat. See the title of the article - "gOS - a good OS for your Mum" - well, yes, unless "your mum" wants to use video or voice on MSN, for example. And, like it or not, the vast majority of the people "your mum" will want to chat with will be using MSN on windows.

4) You're right, I've not tested every game on the market. Maybe I'm just unlucky and it's just most of the ones I have that don't work. Still, it doesn't matter, it's *those* games I want to work, not other games. And, yes, those games probably won't work on vista either, but I don't care, they run on XP, which is what is installed on the game players' PCs.

5) Sounds like you don't know what shockwave is.

For example, try loading this game on Linux:

http://www.flash-game.net/game/41/snowcraft.html

More about the shockwave wine workaround can be found here:

https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Shockwave

The point I'm making is that, like it or not, there's still a few reasons why Linux isn't the best desktop OS choice for many PC users. I've been using Linux since Red Hat 5 in the late 90's so I know how much progress has been made to lower the technical barriers that used to rule out mass adoption. The barriers now are not purely technical ones, they are socioeconomic ones. FOS code-monkey propeller-heads never seem to grasp social or economic concepts very well though do they?

The good news for me though, is that the vast majority of server implementations I've worked on over the last 5 years have been on Linux. My commercial users have benefited from the lower TCO that this has delivered - freeing them from expensive proprietary server hardware / OS suppliers. This has been a fantastic outcome driven by Linux and the FOS software community, spurred on by a good dollop of bitter rivalry between some big players in the industry. The same forces are not at play in the domestic (or even the commercial) desktop PC market - PCs with Linux are not significantly cheaper than PCs with Windows and they have no compelling additional end-user features, they don't even look any nicer (ref. apple!). Microsoft has won the battle for the PC desktop, no it wasn't a fair fight, but that's just the way things are. Get over it, and move on.

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Anonymous Coward

@AC Device Support

gOS is primarilly designed for OEM installation on SCCs and the like. Why on earth would an end user need to jump through these hoops?

The odds of a member of the target market installing gOS on their own hardware from a downloaded ISO are almost zero, so this just isn't an issue. The target being the sort of potential computer user with little or no previous experience, do you really think somebody like that is going to buy a computer then browse the internet looking for a better OS to install?

It seems, once more, that here we have a poster who is desperately trying to find reasons to object to gOS with the result that the best reason they can find is one that makes no sense.

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BatCat, you're not making a point

Your only point seems to be "Linux isn't XP" and so what?

This isn't about XP.

Hell, the article isn't about your kids' needs.

I posted that I didn't like Ubuntu because there wasn't a root account so if you knew what you were doing, it was awkward.

On topic.

Someone said that they thought that Linux didn't have admin tools for the advanced windows user (as opposed to advanced computer user, for whom learning a new OS is trivial a problem).

On topic.

You come along and say it isn't good enough for your kids.

Off topic.

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Paris Hilton

re: Please get some clueful writers

Thw writer was a whole lot more clueful than you.

Why does it matter what OS you're using when you're using email (an open specified protocol) to send text (ASCII, an open specified standard) to your family (over the open and specified protocol)? When they look at the internet (an open specified protocol) to view HTML (an open and specified protocol) why do they care what OS they use. All they care about is that their system works.

Do you care that your LCD screen is a panasonic or sony? There *are* technical differences that mean they operate differently. They still show you Buffy episodes on DVD.

Same here.

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Flame

With the Right Support....Anything is Possible

@Antidisestablishmentarianist

I believe his comments covered that point. He was merely mentioning that by the use of that sort of toggle the Linux virgins who wish to learn could in fact have that option. The layman's could even disable or hide that feature. In the grand scheme of things it is not such a bad idea.

In General:

Above there were several comments about setups and drivers etc. That is a pretty big deal and yet another reason why Windows is such a tough OS to de-throne. When my Granny wants to plug in her camera which is tough enough for her she doesn't have time nor the know-how to realize why her camera after she plugs it in doesn't work after putting in her CD/DVD to "INSTALL" it. I strongly believe that if gOS is to ever move forward it is going to need some serious partnerships with companies like HP, Sony, Dell, Samsung, Viewsonic, Apple & Nvidia. Once they gain peripheral driver support this OS will be a force to be reckoned with.

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Dead Vulture

zzzzzzZZZZzzzzz.....

<pfft>

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Happy

@ Mark - gOS - a good OS for your Mum

I was originally commenting on the article.

The article, as indicated by its title, suggests that gOS is a suitable desktop OS for general PC users such as "your mum".The point I'm making is that it depends on what "your mum" wants to do with it. I illustrated this point with examples from my own experience of trying to get general PC users ( my family ) to use Linux instead of XP. I have highlighted some of the problems I had and I'm suggesting that many people, particularly in the gOS target demographic, will also likely face the same or similar problems. Therefore, my original comment is very much on-topic, gOS or any Linux distro for that matter, is not necessarily a good OS for "your mum" or anyone else who may need features that it doesn't support.

If I was just out to criticise Linux, I'd be moaning about the hours I spent getting the wireless adaptors and sound working properly on the kids' laptops. Those problems I could fix, it's the problems that don't have a fix that are the killers.

BTW, on Ubuntu, try

sudo bash

That runs a shell with root privileges so you don't need to sudo any other commands in that shell instance - surely anyone who knows what they're doing can figure that one out. ;o)

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L1feless's granny

Uh, I don't think that these days there is ANY camera that won't work "out the box" with Linux. Windows wants the drivers because it wants "Kodac PictBridge" drivers when "Any frigging PictBridge" drivers will work, but that's a different rant.

Your granny is probably better off on Linux because she won't have to protect herself from drive-by installs or worry about clicking on that banner ad (because it's written for windows to infect). Hell, she doesn't have to care about virus checking and keeping that up to date.

For Barry, to whom computer==windows Linux may be a problem.

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BatCat, where's my PyGame???

Oh, it doesn't work unless you install what someone else has ported to Windows.

Still, I'll blame Windows, not the developers.

How about xpilot? I love that game. Is that available anywhere on Windows?

Look, I don't care WHY they don't work, just that they don't work.

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Thumb Up

Installed gOS

Just thought I'd mention that I installed gOS on my wife's 5-year-old Dell laptop last night (something I'd been preparing for all week so this article was aptly timed). Took about an hour from scratch. Wirless just worked. Graphics just worked. Digital camera just worked. HP printer just worked. Battery monitor just worked. Hibernate just worked. The Laptop now flies along (XP was dying) so the Wife is chuffed to bits.

Thanks to Foxmarks she still has all her bookmarks in Firefox. Just three slight downsides - two nothing to do with the OS.

She was running Outlook in XP. I haven't been able to move her mail archive or address book over yet. I plan synching them to a GMail account (I kept the XP image as a VMWare machine) and then running IMAP from Thunderbird to the GMail - so that's sorted. Not exactly "Your Granny" stuff to sort out though.

MPlayer, the default video and music player, is the worst pile of crap I've ever seen. Still, loads of options there. Shouldn' take more than 10mins to sort out this evening and she doesn't really play much music on the laptop anyway.

All in all though, EVERYTHING worked straight away and the whole experience was actually quite pleasant. I've been setting up machines since the early 80s and have covered DOSs, Windows, Unix, Linux and others. This was the easiest install I've ever done.

I'll stick to a dual-boot of Ubuntu and Vista for the development PC, but for a "kitchen" laptop gOS suits our needs perfectly.

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Anonymous Coward

Admin tools are the problem on windows

Whining that Linux distros lack the easy admin tools of Window is not an argument against Linus, surely it's an argument against Windows.

In common with most people who work in IT I get a lot of requests from friends, relations, colleagues, neighbours and, indeed, complete strangers to look at their PC which isn't working properly. In 99% of cases the reason their Windows are broken is becuase they (or their mate who "knows all about computers") have been messing about with those nice easy to access and use admin tools.

The average home user really doesn't need most of those tools and dicking about with them does not improve the user experience, it destroys them. For some reason people dick about with the settings on their computers in ways that they would never dream of with their TV. You know all that weird stuff that most of us don't understand buried six levels down in your TV's menu. We don't cock it up because it's hard to find and it all looks a bit technical and threatening. However Microsoft have stuck serious stuff where it's easy to find and made it all look soft and fluffy and non threatening.

Confusingly they have no fluffy admin tools for the stuff you really do need to change so you have to delve into that totally ridiculous registry. Or spend ages trawling technet to find that there is a nice pretty admin tool, but for some reason you have to download it because they didn't include it in the OS.

Go figure.

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@James Bassett

"MPlayer, the default video and music player, is the worst pile of crap I've ever seen."

Uh, it's a lot more capable out of the box than Windows Media Player. And you can't get hosed by downloading a "codec" that is really a trojan. At work if something comes in for my neighbour that requires being played, it plays on Linux and not on Windows. Even flash videos (.swf). Nothing needed installing. Windows XP plays naff all "out of the box".

Your abilities seem to be "computers" rather than "Windows" so a learning curve is accepted. Oddly, even though windows users get a learning curve each release, this is accepted and no training needed, whereas Linux "is copying Windows" has a learning curve that is more onerous even when it is less of a barrier.

Heck, if you want something other than Windows try one of:

Xfce

Enlightenment (really nice, fast and plenty of candy)

Windowmaker

they are in all major distributions.

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Happy

@Mark - xpilot / PyGames on windows

Xpilot has been ported to windows. Python and the PyGames libraries are also available for windows. But, I wouldn't ever even suggest you switch to windows - you're happy with Linux as your desktop OS & that's great - for you. However, It doesn't mean Linux is right for everyone else. Not because they're too stupid to use Linux, but because Linux doesn't support the features they want to use.

Want another example? MS Office compatibility. Yes, Open Office does a pretty good job at cross-compatibility - but it's not 100%. When I was running Linux as my primary desktop OS I was always getting formatting problems with MS Word and Power Point documents using Open Office. Not to mention a complete lack of support for Visio and MS Project.

Linux Fanbois never seem willing to accept that there are plenty of real-world issues for users wanting to switch over from Windows. They always try to dismiss them with partial solutions or complex workarounds - I know, I've done it myself. But then I grew up.

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Anonymous Coward

This clearly isnt targeted at the 'Average Joe' user

It's targeted at people who might want an operating system for Average Joe, like an OEM - who would preinstall and configure the appliance, and may also even preapprove accessories - and *nix users who want an OS where their mum can't break anything, but can do everything they want to.

My mum is reasonabley computer literate, I like to think I've tought her well. She can browse teh interweb (and buy stuff, she LOVES the ebay) , write thousands of word documents, copy photos from her phone to her PC no problem. I still get called up, and very often summoned back, if she gets a new gadget, or buys a new printer. She just doesn't want to know about how it works, or how to fix it, and I think IT types forget that regular people don't actually care about this stuff.

I think Linux tries too hard to be a replacement windows, without enough thought into the overall process because of this. Personally, I use FreeBSD, which has a much much lower level of support for hardware than even Linux, however the drivers that are there are coherent and well designed - for example, the wifi drivers in FreeBSD all share a common codebase, abstracting all the 802.11 defined code away into a common interface. Each linux wifi driver family is completely different. On the other hand, theres virtually no TV card support under FreeBSD.

Linux completely understands this desire to 'just work', its how its slapped together. I just think its barking up the wrong tree to try and aim for 'simple, easy to use, Joe Public OS', and just aim at the 'computer literate' crowd instead. If its open, enterprising Joe Publics who think they're computer literate will paint their bikeshed. Firefox turned from being designed as a lightweight browser, into a behometh in no time, because users and devs demanded more and more features. I don't doubt gOS will disappear down the same path. If it doesn't come with a package manager, some enterprising user will add one, nicely packaged in however is most easy for a gOS user to install.

BTW, kudos to the guy who said "all you need is vim + man" (Lennon?) - I'd certainly say that to a colleague, but probably not my dad!

:wq!

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Black Helicopters

MS Office compatability

Well, if you're talking about "page presentation" accuracy, MS Office isn't compatible either. Visio you may be right (but the Linux application Dia was there AGES earlier) and MS Project isn't much of a reason to have an *Office program* chosen. Plenty of other project planners available.

Linux does have a lot of problems. Most of them are from outside (hardware not specced, software kept deliberately obscured, etc). The problems Linux has is mostly the ones a newcomer has to a market.

Problems that are parts of Linux are:

configuration tools are not interchangable between suites. By that I mean the Red Hat GUI tools teach you something that you can't take with you to SuSE.

Root Nazis. Nowadays if you *dare* use root to log in a graphical system, you get red flashing lights, sirens going off and a limited windowmanager. Let me be a fool and log in as root, tell me then get the fuck out of my way.

Abandonment. Mandrake, for example, don't really make it too easy to patch their software because they do a LOT of fiddling with the code (all the big ones do it now, it seems). So when they end support for the older version (understandable insofar as you got it for free) you're left pretty out of it. Autopackage would help, but that doesn't seem to be getting anywhere.

Mono infestation. Novell aren't saying they are going to cover any organisation that uses Mono but make SuSE and Gnome use Mono. Meaning either a rush to move to KDE or taking a risk that MS are estopped by the GPL from asserting any Silverlight patents that Mono is using.

There are others.

So I do realise there are real-world issues.

The ones you seem to make are just as much a problem in Windows. So unless you're going to rag on them for the same problems, leave them out of it. Find ones that are *Linux* issues, not fud-spew.

Then again, MS fanbois are rabid about dissing linux, they're just getting around to the idea that saying "hey, I like and use linux, OK, but...".

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Happy

"The Laptop now flies along"

It would fly along with a fresh installation of XP too, Linux isn't magically boosting the performance of the PC. XP performance does tend to degrade over time, specially if users are installing lots of demo / free software downloads and plugin widgets. My kids' laptops fly along after I've restored a clean XP image onto them. It takes about 15 minutes using acronis true image every few months. They can enjoy all the same user experience as their mates and if they screw up the OS, I just restore it again. Perfect solution.

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@Bat

I tried one. First one worked off the bat. No installation needed.

http://www.flash-games.net/online/3402/mexican-train-dominoes.html

Hmm.

Some work, some don't maybe. Definitely not ALL not working.

Though, to be honest, the games are a bit shite.

They'd be good on a smartphone or whatever, but then again, most of those aren't using the Blessed MS and definitely not using the Imperator Intel. In those cases, something that really IS portable seems to be a good idea. Stops you having to write the Nokia 915 version then the Samsung 2940 version then the Palm Communicator version, then the ....

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Gates Horns

Linux hype

I still don't understand why folks from Linux communities still refuse that Linux is an ancient defunct OS as in x86 intel CPU to Pentium class. No matter how it progress, VIA try hard and Intel try revive it as atom, still an ancient technology.

Linux boot time is slow

Linux is dump as hell when come to drivers, not even universal drivers wold function properly

Linux came in 100's of distro, each has it own half finish project. Together, Linux are almost a little more than half finish project.

User friendly? Not so fast when come to problem, user immediately realise that they stuck if didn't know all the commands. Not simply click here and there true GUI.

Linux almost virus free... hmmm! wait till those kid figure out then all your file will be gone for real because you don't know much about Linux either.

Security issue is not a problem, I've see some geek hacked into Linux in minutes. It not reported to Linux community yet because they've nothing to gain to prove Linux is insecure.

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re: "The Laptop now flies along"

I think it has more to do with two things. One endemic to the Windows Way We Do Things (tm): Poor self organisation. Bits are tucked in odd places, files fragment, cleanup is had because "scary" is hidden.

One is endemic to MS's development of OSes: XP was fast and buggy as hell. So SP1 fixed a few things, missed some good opportunities and slowed things down a bit. SP2 fixed most of what was hugely wrong (apart from the EULA which I won't agree to. If MS wants to install and uninstall stuff without telling me what and why, they can buy my computer off me and let me run it) but XP with SP2 is *significantly* slower than SP1 or vanilla. Probably because MS must continue to entangle bits of code into other unrelated systems so that they can't be told off and forced to unbundle NewGreatMusicServerSystem0.1 like they had to with Win98. So it's easy to miss things and changes repeated means repeated redundant checks.

If MS were a development company, their problems in the output of their coders would be much less, but MS were always a marketing company that produced technical products, so they must do what makes the system marketable and hang the consequences.

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"Each linux wifi driver family is completely different."

Odd. Because the reason why the drivers are all different is because they keep changing the hardware whilst leaving the model number the same. Which is fine for Windows with a driver CD but will bite you if you buy a netgear (X-Bow chipset) 311 wireless card to replace your netgear (Javelin chipset) 311 wireless card and you the old one off with the new driver CD (because they are both the same model number).

Double odd because Windows has two weird effects with respect to drivers:

Plug your USB mouse into another USB slot and it stops the mouse, pops up the "new hardware" installs the USB mouse driver you already had and THEN lets you use the mouse. Move it to another new USB slot and the same happens. Linux? Not even a pause. Linux goes "it's a freaking USB mouse!". Windows: "It's a USB port 4, bus 2 mouse!".

Change your IP address of your box (don't know if this works in XP, does in 98) and it asks for your windows CD so it can install the netbios driver that hasn't changed since you installed it with the old IP address. Uh, why's the driver need reinstalling when you've changed something that has nothing to do with the driver???

Again, problems BOTH systems have, but shaded (lying by omission) to put Linux in a bad light.

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Anonymous Coward

@jeanl

Protips.

Learn to troll.

Learn English.

Come back.

Failing that?

Kill yourself.

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Trying to install for kids machine - part tres

I made a mistake in my earlier post. It is on a 2.26 GHz p4, not a celeron 2.0.

Wifi: It took about 20 minutes to get wifi working, but it would have worked instantly if I had an open network.

Game good: "jump start" "reading for second graders" installed without any problems. On running the game the initial splash screen loads slowly, but then it runs without any problems.

Game bad: When the game is running, the cpu usage is at a steady 100%. The high cpu usage is almost entirely wine + the game executable. It stays at 100%, even if the game is idle, but running.

I am not sure if wine + any win32 exe is this cpu intensive or not. But if it is, then I would say that wine is there for when you NEED to run a win32 exe, and is not suitable for when you WANT to mostly run win32 exe's.

I will be setting up a gos based system for my mom. All she needs is kiosk style web and email access.

But for the kids machine, I will be using xp. I want to be sure that it is compatible with all of the hand-me-down games we already have (only tried one in gos). More important (to me), I don't think my 5yo will be neatly closing applications when he is done playing. So I don't want it to be running at 100% cpu 24 hrs a day, just because a win32 exe is running on the desktop.

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Anonymous Coward

@Mark "Bits tucked in odd places"

Because Linux totally doesn't do anything like that. LOL

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"Linux boot time is slow"

Running Suse 11.0 on a Athlon XP1900+ laptop. Boot 20-26 seconds login 10 seconds. Full 3d wibbly effects.

XP on an Core 2.4 takes 32-40 seconds to boot and 25 or more seconds to log in (finished loading the apps that must load on the taskbar).

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Anonymous Coward

Nope, it doesn't. Well, in a few places, but very few.

configurations in /etc. logs in /var/log. personal configurations in ~/.program.

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@Simpson

At least trying cost you nothing other than time. If you don't like or can't use a closed source OS (Apple or Microsoft), you aren't allowed a refund.

Which is nice.

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