back to article Son of 419 victim contacts El Reg

It's sad to report that amid all the merriment to be had at the expense of Nigerian 419 fraudsters and their improbable tales of MARIAM ABACHA, Congolese banks stuffed with illicit loot and other entertaining yarns concerning riches beyond the wildest dreams of avarice, there are all too real people ready and willing to believe …

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  1. Steve Martins
    Paris Hilton

    real? you'd have to be very VERY STUPID...

    ... and as Einstein said... "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."

    so yes, quite possibly real!

  2. Joe
    Pirate

    Son of 419

    A 'preacher' with children, eh? Not catholic then. My advice is he should either shave his head and go live as a buddhist monk in some (very) out of the way place, having offered his family and their descendants up for eternal bondage in payment of this debt and gross insult to his friends or do the honourable and more immediately satisfying thing and commit seppuku along with his entire household.so he can rid the world of his protracted stupidity and spare it any further embarrassment for his slur on humankind's claim in being an intelligent species.

  3. J
    Stop

    No sympathy here either

    Sympathy? No way. If this is indeed true...

    First, he is a preacher, therefore he is a scammer himself.

    Second, he is stupid and greedy, so he deserves what he got (that does not excuse the scammers, of course, who should rot in jail). Maybe the friends who lent him the money are too, but who knows what he told them he needed the money for?

    As most pointed out, I also felt like I was reading a 419 attempt and waiting for the punchline (which didn't come), but who knows.

    Remember that former Ronald Reagan's neurosurgeon has been reported to have sent a huge amount of money to such a scam, so those who say "backwater countries and ignorant people" etc. can stop and... Oh, wait... :-D

    And to those who are saying "Darwin Awards": you haven't got a clue yet, have you? He's *already reproduced*, too late!

  4. BitBotherer
    Pirate

    419er

    I think the correct term is 'Reverse Nigerian'

  5. Chris Bradshaw
    Boffin

    Take the clues given

    A preacher? In India. OK, it is possible, but not that likely.

    Post-dated cheques? When I was in India (admittedly a while ago) it was pretty much a cash economy. Any Indian readers out there care to comment??

    Gambia vs. South Africa - that's a pretty big mistake.

    Grammatical mistakes are understandable, nobody is pretending to be a native English speaker here.

    Suicide is (as I understand it) a common option for low-income Indian farmers with high debts. Is it a solution for someone who has Internet access and the possibility to raise $70k? And would it be the whole family, as seems to be the threat here?? Again, a comment from an Indian reader would be welcome.

    My gut feeling (and my hope) is 419+..

  6. Elrond Hubbard

    Mr Anonymous Coward

    >> As far as I know, 419 scammers haven't killed anyone.

    Killed:

    George Makronalli

    Jean Pierre Li Shing Tat

    Kidnapped:

    Danut Mircea Tetrescu

    Josef Raca

    Kensuke Matsumoto

    ...and others.

  7. Jón Frímann Jónsson
    Alert

    A variation of a older type of scam

    This is a variation of an older type of scam.

    See here for greater details.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advance_fee_fraud#Fraud_recovery_scams

  8. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    @ Spleen

    Developing countries ARE more susceptible, because people learn through experience and half these folk have only just got email. Think about it.

    My evidence? Exhibit A, the bankrupting of an entire country (Albania) via a simple pyramid scheme - the kind that hasn't had traction in the west for, oooh, 15 years? To give you some idea of the scale of this one, "the nominal value of the pyramid schemes' liabilities amounted to almost half of the country's GDP".

    http://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/fandd/2000/03/jarvis.htm

  9. Anonymous John

    I'm not convinced it's genuine either.

    The sender referred to it as a 419 scam. So he/she googled the subject and knows their father is stuffed..

    So what does he expect El Reg to suggest?

  10. Anonymous Coward
    Dead Vulture

    Re: @ Spleen

    How about

    http://www.state.gov/www/regions/africa/naffpub.pdf

    (Page 8)

    After all if you can't trust the US gov...

  11. Anonymous Coward
    Stop

    Looks fake - and I'll tell you why

    In India, foreign exchange transactions by individuals, though much easier than they used to be 10 years ago, are still rather heavily regulated. Simply put, individuals in India cannot convert the rupee equivalent of 50K dollars and wire it outside the country without violating FEMA (foreign exchange management act)

    Not that this doesn't happen. In fact, if you get me drunk enough, I can point out a few ways to to do so myself. However, anyone who is smart enough to figure out these loopholes, and well versed in the ways of forex banking, will not fall for a 419.

  12. Alex
    Alert

    Oh my god...

    I just read this article... Now I want to kill myself. Please don't send any money... you couldn't afford it.

  13. Hans Mustermann

    It's a funny world

    Well, it's a funny world. I'd _love_ to think that noone is as stupid as to still fall for a 419, or pyramid schemes, or stock spam, etc. The fact is, people do.

    I personally know someone who nearly fell victim to a pyramid scheme. I mean, you'd think anyone understand exponents and why they don't work, right? And in this case it was a smart person (or someone I had previously considered smart) _and_ who usually was the one convincing gullible people to buy snake oil they don't need. But raise the greed bar high enough, and it basically outright shut down her brains. There was no talking her out of "but I could win millions if I get into it _now_!!!" She understood exponents all right, but essentially greed was enough to make her live in a wishful-thinking reality-distortion bubble in which she can get her share before someone else gets the shaft.

    I personally know two people who got into the dot-com scam very late, in 1999, when the bubble was already deflating fast. Eventually the "but if we just make a useless site and have an IPO, people will give us hundreds of millions for nothing" clouded their judgment, and they made a company with that as their _sole_ business plan. They'll have an IPO and people will give them millions. What next? They didn't know. Unlike the average dot-commer, though, these guys hadn't even figured out the part where they just sell their shares and retire with a ton of unearned money. They dumped so much of their own money into building that scam, that they actually made such a loss that... well, let's say both still take the bus to work because they can't afford a car.

    Or if I'm allowed to use stuff from the news, you only need to look eastwards, towards Eastern Europe. Almost all the countries there were swept by a wave of scams after communism went away. IIRC in the 90's there were some pretty nasty riots in Albania, for example, because a signifficant proportion of the population had impoverished themselves by taking part in some brain-dead pyramid schemes. Apparently with the government's blessing, given enough bribes, which is why the rioting against the government followed.

    Incidentally that also provides IMHO enough of the counter-example to the "but noone in India has that much money" posts. Some people do. Some people (even in the West) went and mortgaged their house, or embezzled money from work, or dealt with some nasty loan sharks to pursue the elusive goal of getting some millions for nothing. I have no trouble believing that the same would happen in India too.

    This guy in India probably went to a dozen different loan sharks (I don't think any bank would ask for 4x the loan as payment, for a short term loan), each thinking that he's the only one lending him money, and thus that he's probably within how much he can pay. (By selling his house, car, etc.) And now he probably can't pay them _all_, and, well, unless he kills himself, any one of them will be perfectly happy to assist him.

    The funny thing is that in the above Eastern European example, I think that the poorest countries got hit the worst. I guess it's easier to shrug off the temptation of a few million, when you're already living a good life as a middle class western guy/gal. But for some of those people, the money can make a difference between complete poverty and (by their standards and perceptions) a life of luxury. They'll get their greed triggered by a lot lesser sums.

    Well, I guess probably the best way to summarise the already huge post is: think Hanlon's Razor. Never attribute to malice, that which is adequately explained by stupidity.

    Some people are genuinely that stupid.

    And no, I don't propose to save them from their own stupidity.

  14. Terry Bernstein
    Paris Hilton

    An IT Rag?

    OMG. I thought El-Reg was a Paris Hilton fan rag!

    Paris, because El-Reg is, well, er i thought.. erm...ah..Oh well.

    Sigh

    BTW I vote scam

  15. Anonymous Coward
    Thumb Down

    It feels fake

    Assuming that when the writer says "dollars" s/he means USD, then 70K USD is about 3 million INR (or 30 lakh to use the Indian way of counting). It would have to on hell of a charasmatic priest who could borrow that sort of money!

    To put it into perspective - for that money you could buy a decent sized house outside the major cities.

    While Indian foreign exchange regulations are much more relaxed than they used to be I suspect this is not the sort of money an individual can simply wire out without having to answer some fairly serious questions from the Income Tax department.

    If it wasn't sent via above the board channels then I expect the 70K USD would have been even more expensive.

  16. Jonathan McCulloch
    Stop

    @Spleen

    You said "That 419s, unlike gambling and self-help books, are not merely a tax on the greedy and stupid. Numerous people have been killed by 419 scammers. Financial losses you can at least recover from, death you can't."

    You reckon "self-help" can't be fatal? I'll raise you one "alternative medicine" and a "faith healer", and throw in a homeopath for good measure.

    People have died earlier than they needed to because they have gone for quack remedies in self-help books. Not every self-help book, guru, programme and seminar is some fairly harmless wanker like the idiots who came out with The Secret.

    -- Jon

  17. heystoopid
    Coat

    Sad or is it just another scam variation?

    Sad , if 0.0015 % truth exists in that particular email , it goes to show that no amount of education will protect them from their own self greed like the woman in the land of the paranoid who shot her sleeping husband in the back with a shotgun at under five feet (nasty big holes they make at that range) , there after told even bigger lies as the dead victims cannot defend themselves in the media or in a court of law from slander and libel and then the suckers fell for that fishy tale , hook line and sinker inclusive !

    If false with the odds running at 99.985% in favour of that option , what can one say other then a fool and his money are soon parted !

    Or perhaps you should alternatively run a back scam like those tricksters do on another 419 web site !

    Choices and options make life interesting to say the least or does one need a flame resistant coat !

  18. Crash Override
    IT Angle

    Darwin Awards

    Just a small point, the Darwin Award is given to someone who removes themselves from the gene pool without having procreated, so the kid's father wouldn't be eligible, however, he may be eligible for an honorable mention.

    Definitely sounds like a scam though.

  19. Hans Mustermann
    Coat

    @Anonymous John

    "So what does he expect El Reg to suggest?"

    Maybe something along the lines of: well, mate, this might be a good time to shake his hand, tell him how much you love him, forgive and forget, etc. That way you won't end up feeling as guilty after he's gone ;)

    Also realize that he _is_ an idiot, he should have known better (including that there's a reason why "greed" made it into the top 7 deadly sins), and that he got shafted by his own greed.

    And _probably_ he had the intention to shaft someone else in their moment of misfortune. How many of those falling for 419 scams actually plan to give the 100 million to the widow/heir of the late Nigerian banker/minister/whatever, once it's transferred "through" their account? I'll take a bet that the reason this scam works is that most people don't think "well, it's only neighbourly and christian to help the widow in her hour of need", but rather the dishonest, "muahaha, if she's so stupid as to transfer that money to me, let's see her try to get even a cent back." That's what gets them so in a hurry to pay any ridiculous fee, get loans they can't pay, etc: the prospect of shafting someone else out of a heck of a lot of money.

    What really damns them, and why I don't have even a tiny iota of compassion for them, isn't their stupidity, but rather their own dishonesty. They're not simply stupid victims, they're stupid crooks. They rank up there with the guys that went and tried to rob a bank with a ransom note written on the back of a check they had signed.

    But anyway, he _is_ an adult, makes his own decisions, and should know that sometimes others _can_ bail you out of anything you blindly run into. If he runs into traffic, he should expect that he might run over. If he plays golf in a thunderstorm, he might find out that Zeus and Thor have a name for that metal club: target. And if he borrows 10 times more money than he can give back, well, he can expect to be screwed. And sometimes neither his friends, nor his family can save him, and we perfect strangers on an IT site will just have a hearty laugh at his expense. That's life. He should have used his head _before_ doing something stupid, really.

    Accept that. He made his decisions, he gets to live or die with the results. If the decision is to commit suicide, well, the same applies.

  20. Jean Stone

    Probable scam

    My inbox has got plenty of mails that don't aim for the Greedy lobe of the brain. In the wake of any disaster that gets major press you can find examples either from an alleged survivor wanting help or from an aid organization whose business plan is to email random strangers and ask them for support. Scammers are willing to abuse the empathy of individuals as well as stupidity. If there isn't an email in my box within the week purporting to be from Burma or China I will be very surprised. Needless to say, I remain extremely suspicious of this email even if it doesn't immediately ask for money.

  21. Jon Tocker

    Definitely got to be a scam variant.

    That's the bait, the hook comes later once correspondence has been entered into. I've encountered a few 419 scams that don't immediately launch into "I've got ONE MILLION US DOLLARS to get rid of" in the first email. They become "penpals" first, establish dialogue, then "confide" in you about their vast piles of cash and their problem of how to get to it....

    This variant is obviously looking for sympathetic types whose willingness to help is evidence by their replying to the letter. Later will come "could you please send me a few thousand dollars to pay this one man who is very angry, I don't want my dad to commit suicide..."

    bobbles31: "Mines the one with "CYNIC" in big white letters on the back."

    Then you must try harder, I don't need anything written on my jacket for people to know I'm a cynic.

    david: Go for it, getting yourself a new motorcycle is a worthy cause.

  22. Aubry Thonon

    Reverse 419?

    Does this make it a 914 scam? (and do I get credited for the term?)

  23. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    @AC

    "I might sounds harsh but... sell your dad Darwin award as he has a very good chance to get it!"

    I might sounds harsh (...?!?) but... if your dad is a dad, he's already ineligible for the Darwin award. Think about it for a minute.

  24. Luke Quarrie
    Thumb Down

    beleiving

    is spelt wrong, lots of gramatical errors. this is a hoax

  25. Anonymous Coward
    Thumb Down

    More scammy than...

    a very scammy scammer.

    [apols to Baldrick]

  26. Anonymous Coward
    Alien

    Reg readership IQs?

    Did the IQ's of the Reg readership suddenly drop? I am truly shocked that people are even consitering the posability of this being a true story. The ranting of amanfromMars would be preferable to debating the facts or even lambasting this fictional father that got suckered in.

    I must admit when I first read the headline I cringed a bit that they would put a story like that in bootnotes. I skimmed past it, read one or two other stories, and when I came to the headline again it dawned on me it was going to be a spin off of a 419. The article and the email bore that out. It is clearly tongue in cheek.

    I don't know, maybe these comments are also being tongue in cheek and I'm the one missing it.

    Paris, because even she ... er ... um ... I mean ...

    ... amanfromMars, because even he would know better.

    P.S. What ever happened to the amanfromMars icon?

  27. Slaine
    Paris Hilton

    @ Steve mostly - but in the best possible taste

    Well Steve - my guess is they don't read the site - otherwise their grammar and spelling would have improved. As for sending to this site - presumably it's one of those "all in my address book" mailings, unless of course some ducky at Vulture Central has been dipping fingers were only pointy sticks should be.

    Did you spot the other 8 errors? One or two is one thing - we all typo from time to time, but when the ratio rises to over one per line ... naaaaaaa.

    Hardcore Lesbian Techo Filth = digital photographs of muddy females in dungarees (so no-one at El Reg then); probably better off searching for "politicians" - better chance of seeing something REALLY kinky.

    ["Heartless Gits" by AC]: yes, and no. I applaud the triumph of hope over reason but if all the signs say "warning", then I would suggest "beware". Shame you posted as Anon though, I've got some wonderful scams (ooops, sorry - "once in a lifetime offers") to be send for your compashonate soul of caring.

    914? cool - and those of us in "the know" can refer to it as "a porsche"

    And the ubiquitous icon of the unassuming Paris, clearly because El Reg is moral vacuum of Techno-Lesbian pr0n filth addicts. "Cover me in ice cream and bite ma bum, I love it"; [Billy Connolly]

  28. Anonymous Coward
    Paris Hilton

    Breathe FM

    Billions of people all around the world listen to Breathe FM; last time it went off of the air millions suffocated.

    BREATH in......BREATH out...... BREATH in.......... BREATH out.........

    Somewhere in the middle of this strenuous, mental activity, they manage to send all their money to Nigeria.

    Paris, who now listens to KEEPYOURCLOTHESONANDTHATCOCKOUTOFYOURMOUTHINESPECIALLYINFRONTOFACAMERA FM on a semi regular basis.

  29. Anonymous Coward
    Coat

    419 and 914 are both...

    Numberwang

  30. Anonymous Coward
    Gates Horns

    Plenty of takers

    Whether or not this guy is genuine - and as one comment says it certainly has the right linguistic ring - there are in my experience plenty of takers in India. The village I lived in for several years was comfortably off in terms of land ownership but generally cash poor. The people were what you would call "canny" with money; not tight, but certainly well versed in and wary of local scams.

    As the internet became more widely available the villages email addresses began to attract the inevitable pleas from the Lads from Lagos, or often as not Jakarta. I was amazed that so many people - often well educated - would start to slaver with avarice as they waved printouts and explained to me how they'd won the lottery or been offered the opportunity of a lifetime that would net enough cash to buy the village next door.

    The most surprising thing was how hard it was to dissuade them - even showing a dozen near identical emails from apparently different people failed to scratch the enthusiasm of one guy, whose money was only saved by the quaint Indian habit of getting his father to approve the sale of land to pay for the advance fee. Pops was thankfully wiser than his offspring.

    One or two others were sufficiently convinced to call the phone numbers given to get further details, but were stymied in their attempts to give their money away by the labyrinthine twists of Indian banking law. If it had happened now, it would probably be far easier.

    The fact is that although most of these people were well off in assets they have a tough life of gruelling physical labour and long hours working those assets to feed the family. The idea of escaping that and a rather touching belief that the scammers "wouldn't be allowed to do that if it wasn't legal" made them suspend the disbelief that would cut in sharply someone had been hawking a more familiar and localised scam.

    In a period of five years at least three people killed themselves over the 'shame' of money problems, leaving their families comprehensively screwed, so the email certainly has the ring of truth.

    Irrespective of whether it's an attempt (a pretty poor one) as a scam, this story will exist for real somewhere in rural India. Those jeering from the sidelines on here while forensically dissecting the story and smugly congratulating themselves on their own cleverness, might reflect (I really doubt) that not everyone has their vast worldy-wise experience to draw on when presented with a scam email - some of those I mention have never been more than 10 miles from their village, and greed and gullibility are hardly unique to India. No one's asking you to fork out, so why not give your well atrophied sense of humanity a rare workout? You would be the same street-smart types, I imagine, who would see the myriad finger-free beggars in Delhi as just another scam whose perpetrators head off to a luxury flat in the Merc after a hard day waving the stumps at passing tourists. You remind me why I gave the UK the big finger.

    @Chris Bradshaw:

    >"A preacher? In India. OK, it is possible, but not that likely."

    Quite possible, especially in Karnatake, Kerala, Calcutta and parts of Tamil Nadu and even tribal Orissa. Apart from a long history of Christian in some places (it arrived in India in AD 70) conversion is a popular way of trying to dodge the caste system for Dalits, although it often doesnt work out. Conversion is banned in some states because it became too popular for some militant Hindus.

    >"Post-dated cheques? When I was in India (admittedly a while ago) it was pretty much a cash economy."

    Plenty of people, including most of the ones I refer to, have bank accounts, although mainly of the passbook variety where the bank has to raise a cheque on their behalf

    >"Is it a solution for someone who has Internet access and the possibility to raise $70k?"

    Again, many of those I mention will have wholly family owned land valued higher than this. Fortunately Father is God in such matters. Internet access is cheap and widely available these days, not just for the well off, and shame based suicide in India doesn't respect (current or recent) net worth.

    Devil Bill, cos scamming the masses isn't reserved for 419ers

  31. michael
    Coat

    @pepol who do not think it is a scam

    are you for real!!

    corse it is a scam it praticley has scam as the header

    it could not be more of a scam if it arived in your inbox dresed in a scam outfix driving a scam singing "scam scam scam"!

    every time I go on line read my mail (both e and snail) or walk down the street I see scams the world is full or them and this is one

    yer it is the one worn by the life long cynic

  32. Dave Driver

    Gullible Reg readers?

    Are the readership of El Reg having a bad day? It seems that a number of commentators believe that the writer has been scammed. This is highly unlikely. It is obviously either another scam, or someone having a laugh.

  33. Spleen

    Re: 17:53

    "Developing countries ARE more susceptible, because people learn through experience and half these folk have only just got email. Think about it."

    Read again. People in developing countries are new to email but are not new to scams. The moment you set up a market you have people selling clapped out livestock as if they were healthy, or fake jewellery, or a piglet in a sack that turns out to be a cat (a popular enough scam that it gave us the phrase 'to let the cat out of the bag'). Anyone should have learnt to recognise a scam by the time they grow up, and "I've got thousands of pounds worth of free money to give you for trivial effort" is a clearly recognisable scam.

  34. Mike Crawshaw
    Black Helicopters

    @ Various Respondents.... Bloody Hell....

    Stewart Rice: nope, probably not sent to just El Reg. But the fact that it was sent to El Reg, which any casual Google-Friend can see is an IT-thing, would make it a less-than-desirable target for this sort of scam, but a reasonable choice for someone wanting advice on an internet-based scam that they've been hit by. As an AC posted shortly after you, who searched details of the message, it indicates that it's not a bulk-mailer, you know how fast they turn up on search engines. Yes, it is possible it's a brand new one, which got bulk-mailed out yesterday, and hasn't made it onto the "scam lists" yet, and they just happened to send to El Reg first, but I doubt it - the odds against make it unlikely.

    Bobbles31: most 419-type scams launch pretty quickly into the "offer". This one doesn't make any attempt to garner cash. Yeah, it might be a targetted attempt to establish rapport prior to asking for money, but usually, especially if a bulk-mailer sent to many addresses, the offer is immediately "on the table", to minimise time wasted. You don't want to establish a rapport with 50 people before finding out that 49 say "F*@K OFF!!" as soon as you mention money, because it's more time-consuming than making the offer to 1000 people, of whom 10 might respond with interest, making them worth spending the time on.

    Spleen: we have a lot of information in mainstream media about scams like this, and people STILL get taken in. Be it 419s, lottery scams, buy-to-let "clubs", timeshare, whatever. TV, radio, effectively unfettered internet, print media etc all flood with information about these all the time. Hell, there was a documentary on about the Buy To Let clubs last night. In India, where this guy is located, that level of media isn't present yet. So, if in this or any other developed country, where people fall for this sort of thing all the time, can we really expect someone else in a country where this isn't the case to be equally informed?

    Robert Cooke: I use the term "IT Rag" in an affectionate way. No other IT publication uses the Eee girl photo quite as much, which means that El Reg has a special place in my heart.

    I'm not saying it's genuine, though I reckon there's a possibility that this is the case, **based on what El Reg published** - if there's a rider at the bottom with details of who to make the cheque payable to, then ok, scam! However, as long as they're not asking for money, I'm content to give the benefit of the doubt. No, I won't be sending El Reg cash to forward on to him...

    People everywhere fall for scams like 419, and some get themselves into a lot of trouble. Same with lottery wins (tbh, I find people falling for that one even more stupid - how the hell did I win the Canadian Lottery when I live in England and never bought a ticket, exactly???), pyramid schemes, blah blah blah. They all offer something substantial for comparatively little, and people delude themselves into thinking that the risk (if they even consider it) is worth the potential gain. Yes, because they're greedy, dishonest idiots, but that's by the by. Enough people fall for these things to make it worthwhile for the scammers to continue. Until that is no longer the case, it will continue.

    It's 920am, and I already need a drink...!! Helicopters, cos it seems like hiding in my bunker might be a good idea...

  35. Sarah Bee (Written by Reg staff)

    Re: Gullible Reg readers?

    Gosh you're a mean-spirited lot of know-alls. You know perfectly well that even if this particular missive isn't kosher (and I love how many 'well OBViously's are being thrown around), there are plenty of real people who *have* been taken in by this and are suffering for it. They may deserve it for their idiocy, yeah, but they may also deserve a shred of pity.

    No? Ah, well, just be grateful you're not that desperate. No? Well... peh.

  36. Matthew

    Sounds like lots of you didn't read the message in full.

    Possibilities:

    1. It's a scam too.

    El Reg seem to be giving the author the benefit of the doubt however. That, to me, adds at least some credibility.

    2. It's genuine.

    The writer of the message clearly states that it was his *father* who was scammed. I think that there should therefore be some leeway granted in the description of amounts and circumstances. If I fell victim to a scam I'd be so embarrassed I wouldn't want to describe the gory details with all of the specifics spelt out. It is also likely that the writer is significantly younger than El Reg's readership and may even still be in school. I made a few spelling and grammatical errors when I was learning...

    We are all mostly world-weary and cynical about these things because we've seen so many scam messages and are generally immune to them. But let me ask the cynics this: if it is a genuine request for help would you *really* gladly let this guy's father top himself for being greedy and/or stupid? Have your parents never made a silly mistake? Would you not do anything you could to try and help them out of the hole they'd dug themselves into?

  37. Hans Mustermann
    Dead Vulture

    @Sarah Bee

    With all due respect, Sarah, as I was saying, these people are usually taken in by their own greed _and_ dishonesty. They're the guys who were planning to get the hundreds of millions transferred into their bank account, and then thumb their nose at the widow or heir of the late Nigerian banker/minister/don. They're not stupid victims, they're stupid would-be crooks.

    I know that these emails aren't real, but they didn't. They genuinely believed that there is a widow or heir or whatever in need of help, and decided to rob them in their hour of need. I can't express in words the kind of contempt that I feel for that kind of scum.

    Do I have even a shred of pity for them? No, not really. I don't feel any pity for the wannabe robber who showed his ID when robbing a liquour store either. Like the robber, they freaking deserve it. If not for being stupid, for trying to be crooks.

    "Ah, well, just be grateful you're not that desperate."

    You mean be grateful that I'm not simultaneously (A) stupid, and (B) a dishonest prick? Well, I guess I'll give my parents thanks for the education, then :P

  38. Tim Nicholls

    Erm...

    "...even if this particular missive isn't kosher..."

    halal?

  39. Walter McCann
    Happy

    Gullible Reg Readers

    Sorry Sarah,

    Greed should never ever deserves pity. (it is one of the seven deadly sins you know!!!!)

    As for the email, it is rather amusing - I loved the bit about being a preacher (they always are - men of God etc). He did forget to mention that his Dad wanted the money to help the little orphans that he feeds every day!!!!!!

    So, you can all send me €10 euros and I will help him out :) - that would be at least €800 already......

    Advice to Scammer:

    1) India is a big place with 1,000,000,000 people - why not move or hide???

    2) Rob a bank

    3) raid the church collection plate?

    4) Declare divine inspiration and tell all parishioners that God is telling them to raise atleast $50,000 "for the poor Orphans" (which would be partially true of his Dad topped himself!!)

    5) Sell the computer he used to send the email to El reg.

    :-) Bank details for all donations to follow....

  40. Stuart Cherrington
    Paris Hilton

    @Slaine Re: Porsche

    That's genius mate, I think you should be entering a new Wikipedia article right now!

    Paris - cause she's got nice bumpers on her porsche.

  41. Spleen

    @Mike

    "Spleen: we have a lot of information in mainstream media about scams like this, and people STILL get taken in. Be it 419s, lottery scams, buy-to-let "clubs", timeshare, whatever. TV, radio, effectively unfettered internet, print media etc all flood with information about these all the time. Hell, there was a documentary on about the Buy To Let clubs last night. In India, where this guy is located, that level of media isn't present yet. So, if in this or any other developed country, where people fall for this sort of thing all the time, can we really expect someone else in a country where this isn't the case to be equally informed?"

    That's pretty much my point. Whether a country has been exposed to 419s or not is more or less irrelevant, scams in general are universal, and so are suckers.

    What this means is that if you fall for a scam, you don't get any sympathy just because you come from a particular country. People from countries new to email don't get sympathy for falling for email scams. Even if they've never read an article specifically about email scams. Someone from the West who travels to China and encounters a wizened old man who tells them about this amazing secret Oriental art that can heal all their woes, doesn't get any sympathy when they fork over several hundred dollars for a bottle of cat urine. Even if they've never read an article about how this particular treatment is bogus.

  42. RMartin

    Experience suggests

    For the record, I run a public consumer advice web site on Internet threats, and every month we receive several hundred emails from potential 419 victims, even though that is not our primary focus. Most of them write to us because they are already suspicious, and in some cases it is quite startling how far along the process they have been led before this happens. In a few cases actual fraud has occured, sometimes on a quite staggering scale, so the email sent to the Reg strikes me as being an all too genuine cry for help.

    I have dealt with cases where victims have been strung along for over a year, with a steady drip-drip of "fees" and "taxes" that can add up to tens of thousands of pounds. There is a clear psychological phenomenon at work here, and once a victim has been persuaded to part with a small amount of money, they become emotionally invested in the scam being the real deal, as to believe otherwise can be painful.

    To write such people off as being simple-minded and greedy is foolish, as the scammers are using very similar techniques to those commonly used by marketing people to convince YOU to buy the latest useless gizmo at outrageous prices. Or aren't you a typical Reg reader?

  43. Anonymous Coward
    Jobs Halo

    That reminds me

    I leant £45,000 to a nun the other day, and she died before she could pay me back.

    Can you each help me out a bit?

    Just send payapl payments to me on 419-Income@airegin.com

    Thanks!

  44. michael

    theres may have been a fraud

    but the NEXT one might be for real

    http://www.irregularwebcomic.net/216.html

  45. Anonymous Coward
    Stop

    @Hans Mustermann et al

    "With all due respect, Sarah, as I was saying, these people are usually taken in by their own greed _and_ dishonesty. They're the guys who were planning to get the hundreds of millions transferred into their bank account, and then thumb their nose at the widow or heir of the late Nigerian banker/minister/don. They're not stupid victims, they're stupid would-be crooks."

    Wait, stop.

    Imagine for a second that you are not some backroom IT geek. Imagine that you are an upstanding member of society, known throughout your region as a pious and trustworthy man. You pride yourself on your integrity. One morning, you sit down at a computer and receive an email starting:

    "I was given your name by an acquaintance as a man of the utmost integrity."

    You think "ah, he really does know me, for I am a man of the utmost integrity". You can see why the sender is worried: anyone else would take the money and run; "but," you think, "this man was wise and sent his message to the most respected man in Chandrapoorabad. I will help this man."

    So not all the people taken in by these scams are necessarily greedy or dishonest. It is possible to be taken in on the grounds of excessive honesty.

  46. Hans Mustermann
    Thumb Down

    @Anonymous Coward

    While that may be a theoretical possibility, I have trouble seeing many people of outstanding honesty and integrity going too far down the path of _that_ particular scam. It almost invariably boils down to details along the lines of "see, if we gave just one more bribe, we could embezzle millions." Even the very starting premise of that scam is that of, basically, "help me bypass the law and launder some money through a foreign account." That's invariably what the starting email asks you to do.

    In this case, well, I don't know the Indian law, but a bunch of other posters have pointed out that he _had_ to break or circumvent Indian laws too, to get that much money transferred abroad. Not entirely "lawful good", if you know what I mean.

    I'm sorry, but anyone taking part in that... I don't know if they pride themselves in their honesty and integrity, but they prove amply that they didn't have either.

  47. Doug Glass

    Sheep

    Concerning something exceedingly stupid a mutual acquaintance once did, a friend commented, "If you're gonna be dumb, you better be tough". Good people have been getting fleeced since time Immemorial because they just don't think straight or they are so emotional about the subject they can't think straight or they're just plain greedy.

    I do feel sorry for those people who get duped, but if it looks to good to be true, it usually is. I got the email and simply deleted it.

    It's a hard lesson to learn, but those who lose in these schemes do so of their own free will. And you can bet the bad guys will always prey on those who are willing to give away their money and possessions.

    Do I believe the bad guys should therefore be allowed to continue just because people are so dumb? Absolutely not. When caught I think they should be castrated to prevent further pollution of the human gene pool.

  48. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    @Hans

    Agree with you Hans, there is no limit to greed, both individual and corporate, The lust for money and power blinds both to reality.

    Oh and I agree with Doug, but not just for 419ers, sterilisation for every crime. If our Liberals don't want to jail them or shoot them then let's cut the criminal gene right out of the pool.

  49. Sarah Bee (Written by Reg staff)

    Re: @Hans

    Hmm, sterilisation for every crime. What could possibly go wrong?

  50. Anonymous Coward
    Thumb Down

    @Hans Mustermann

    Hans, if you get your moral philosophy from books published by Wizards of the Coast, it's hardly worth arguing with you. Real people don't have character sheets.

    (Same AC)

This topic is closed for new posts.