Nokia has confirmed that it’s developing a touchscreen-equipped handset to take on the Apple iPhone, and has shown off pictures of the upcoming phone to drooling onlookers. The Finnish giant’s handset is codenamed 'Tube', and Tom Libretto, VP of Forum Nokia, said the device will be the company’s “first touch device”. Libretto …
@ perhaps its me
Well said sir !
My sediments exactly. - I have visted many phone shops looking for a mobile phone that just makes calls and sends texts and a calendar - no camera, no games, no silly ringtones and was laughed at by the sales people...
I used my nokia 5110 for 5 years, and would probably still be using it but I was forced to give it up when I moved to the bush (needed cdma) and now that I have moved back to the big smoke now use a samsung Esomething (as cdma reception here is awful) .
I suspect many reg readers are bowerbirds (ohhhh shiny must have)
Running the slowest S60 phone...
The S60V3 interface is okay, and running a N75 in my pocket is a great experience, can watch YouTube videos via MobiTubia, can play 3D Games, etc. on the slowest, least-featured, POS S60V3 device Nokia has put on the market, yet it has a great picture editor, a fantastic camera with video support, and is not as slow as people say... yet the other day I installed an unsigned app that was a virus but a flash later my N75 is running quick and smooth and is a pleasure to have.
Mobile phones nowadays aren't "just Phones" anymore, you use them as MP3 player, video player, camera/video, game players, map devices, alarm clock, notepad, Office document editor, MMS/SMS paging, audio recorder, picture gallery, they are a great convergence device including internet access, sky-is-the-limit-while-you-have-battery...
As for the Nokia iPhone, I'm still wanting a N81 with 8 GB or a N96 as my next phone :)
@ Chris Gibson
Calm down dear, it's only a telephone.
Bjarne Stroustrup on telephone UI
"I have always wished for my computer to be as easy to use as my telephone; my wish has come true because I can no longer figure out how to use my telephone."
Until this is no longer funny, the iPhone will have a market.
So hands up who read the story....
All of the people slating Nokia for referring to their phone as an iPhone killer.....read again and this time do it with your eyes open. The author of the story was the only one referring to it in that way, although it does seem pretty obvious that it is aiming at the iPhone directly.
Now I'm not a fan of Apple because of their exorbitant prices (rather than disliking the technology itself), and I really don't get on well with the Nokia phone UI's in general. However, I'll still be interested to see what they come up with, purely from a technogeek perspective.
Ranting and raving about phones
I have silently read all these comments in perpetuum; I can take it no more.
Surely the idea of having a phone or any mobile device is to use it for purpose.
It is not a fashion accessory, it is not what type it is or how much it cost but to be used to contact friends, work etc.
You people seem to be obsessed with how you will look with your toys and who might see you with it,
Shallow shameful individuals.
How are the youth of today expected to have any sense of a moralistic life when so many morons are impressed by the type of phone you own and, more importantly, how much it costs.
It would be so much easier for everyone to buy and own the same type of phone, to be purchased from one company, on one type of contract, all the same, for ever, the end.
This would then force the other companies to sit up and take note, forcing them to re consider the pricing and style of devices being offered.
If we all had the same items, on the same contracts then the kids would not be arguing about who has the best and who cannot afford this and that, there would not be any in fighting in classrooms and homes. Families would be able to return to old fashioned, clean living morals and begin to live a life without thinking about how they look and how much everything costs.
It is so easy, just get on with your own lives and stop worrying about other people.
Get a dining table and sit round it as a family and talk without using a computer or a bloody mobile phone !
It's the interface, stupid!
Ape the form factor all you want, Nokia, but if you think that's the driving force behind the iPod Touch/iPhone's desirability you're crazy. It's the OS and interface that make it work so well.
I've had an Nokie S60 3rd phone for a year and it's a hateful, slow piece of sh*t. Since I've bought an iPod touch, I have stopped using my phone for anything except texting and phonecalls - the Apple interface and apps are utterly beautiful to use.
I'm going to be downgrading my phone to a simple handset until such times as I get a 3G iPhone now, or someone brings out a competing devide with an equally effective front end. I find it impossible to believe that an S60 or WM based device can truely become an iPhone killer in the near future.
a long road...
the iPhone is only limited by the sim/provider locking. however, with ziphone there is a true 1-click way around that, it just unlocks any iphone out of the box in about 5 minutes. recently tried. 5 minutes later you have an iphone you can use on any network. and install some really cool apps on it to boot.
if there is S60 on this supposed iPhone killer i wish Nokia good luck. I don't think that S60 is up to the task, or can be improved to a point where it can compete with the iPhone's OS.
Nokia did know how to make good phones once, but that was before it ventured into smart-phone territory. It's been downhill ever since. The 6600 was still acceptable, the N73 already garbage, as was the first rev of the N95, the latter having been revved to an acceptable performance level by now.
Nokia is still unrivaled in the low cost phone market of course. These are incredible in terms of value, battery life, build quality.
I am hoping the iPhone was the much needed kick in the proverbial to get Nokia innovating again.. because as much as i love my iPhone, competition is good.
One thing, however, I venture to predict right now: The "tube" is not an iPhone killer. It will not work well and Nokia will have to go back to the drawing board with touch controls and kinda be reminded of the reason they didn't do it a long time ago: Because it's HARD.
progress = good
I dislike Apple as much as the next person. But all that said, they do have a great habit of kicking lazy companies up the rear and getting them to actually do something new. How many more years would we have seen the same old phones year after year with slightly more memory/megapixels each time if it were not for the iphone.
Now all the new stuff is starting to filter through. Yes it will be poor and won’t work to begin with. But at least we are moving forward again.
Maybe I will even think about upgrading my t39m in the next couple of years.
@"avoid the Tube becoming a Hole"
>I hope Nokia equip the Tube with a decent enough processor (600mhz plus)
Why should they sacrifice battery power or build costs because of bloaty code? Only OS providers from desktopland care about more MHz, using it as a crutch to support their poor software engineering practices.
>But you cannot deny that the Iphone is an evolutional leap from previous phones...
Care to elaborate? the iPhone does nothing substantially different or better than the 5 year old SEMC P800, which even had MMS and Handwriting!!!ZOMG!!!1! Nothing better, except perhaps making fanbois soil themselves.
>To keep customers purchasing new phones each year...[snip]
Wow. What a really profound insight you have on the industry, you must be a big player.
>Though I can't figure out why they'd want to use Symbian when they already have a great Linux based platform with the N800/N810
Two words. Real Time. Don't get me wrong, I love the Maemo devices, and you're right, when coupled with a nice, small, elegant 3G handset (you got that Steve?) they're great. But the platform isn't upto the job of running a handset. Yet.
>I could have sworn nokia once called touch a gimmick.
I think they said the same thing about clamshells ;-)
>so would i be wrong in expect all those same people to level the same criticism at the Nokia Tube?
You could expect them to criticise it, but then Nokia do dozens of form factors, so if you wanted Tube + keyboard, chances are you could just get that model instead. Completely different proposition to Apple's 'Model T' design philosophy. When Apple have a range of iPhones in different form factors, then Nokia might just begin to worry.
@AC "iPhone killer"
>Apple spent the time and money to come up with a beautiful design, slick UI and a pretty decent handset on their first go. That took a lot of guts if you ask me.
Not really. it was something they had to do, and had to do very well first time. Mobile phones are eating into the iPod market, it was a simple case of adapt or die. No guts required.
What should have Apple worried about this, is that this will appeal to the iPhone market, yet will come at a much better deal for the consumer (it'll be free with an 18month contract within 6 months of launch, if the N95 is anything to go by). Jobs better have something much more than bringing the iPhone up to 3G spec up his sleeve, if he wants to meet those targets.
"Wasn't Zune the I-pod "Killer" and I'm sure we've have other iphone "killer" statements on here in the past.. its all getting rather tedious."
There's a difference... Microsoft weren't an mp3 player manufacturer.
Nokia *ARE* a phone manufacturer.
So they know a thing or two about the global communications game.
In contrast Apple were a computer/mp3 player manufacturer who tried to make a phone, and although they made a lovely user interface (which they know all about), they kinda missed the target on the phone side of things (especially compared to what non-US customers are used to). Price too steap, Camera too cheap, MMS functionality missing etc etc. You only have to look at the sales figures to see that.
why oh why
why do people always compare new phones to the iphone, oh yes, because its simply a better handset, people moan about 3g when most people dont even know what 3g is,
countless people I know go and upgrade to a 2.5g phone, why? they ycudnt give a f**k about 3g.
what happens if the next iphone has hsdpa up to 7mbps, all the pathetic apple bashers will still find fault with it.
"well its only got a 16bit screen" my nokia has 70 billion (get a grip)
the fact all the new handsets are called iphone killers leads me to believe that they percieve the handset to be superior.
nokia isnt showing one ounce of innovation here because this type of handset is already out there. They are copying the design because the iphone is a highly desirable peice of electronics.
@you anti-nokia wise guys out there; greetings from finland
A month's salary for an iPhone? Cripes, wages in Finland a bit low?
I'm not bothered about the whole debate myself, but as a mobile developer I can say that I wouldn't take home an S60 device through choice (and we have nearly every handset for the picking and choosing).
Touch screens are still a gimmick for the kind of idiotic person who would buy an iphone based on the fact it has a picture of an apple on it, ignoring cheaper, better phones.
the truth is, touch screens will never work as long as they are still unreliable, inaccurate, expensive and easily broken.
I don't care who releases what so long as they shoot anyone in marketing who dares to suggest prefixing it with an "i" or an "e".
Perhaps Nokia can upset a certain website by calling it the uTube?
The bike jacket and my lid & gloves please.
I totally agree, any one who thinks £700 costs in the first year before any call or texts is a good deal, must be a tube.
Tube, as david says, is a derogatory term in scotland, meaning the same as Ya Dick.
As for the nokia, shouldn't it be called the 'Nokia ME2' ?
I thought mobile phones didn't generally work that well on the tube?
Mine's the one with the buttons, not a zip.
Does anyone know?
I can waggle my ears?
S60, so the browser will be pants then
for a bunch of people who hate the iphone, people on here read a damn lot of stories and spend an awful lot of time posting about the thing. I hate the sugababes but I don't go to pop music websites and post comments on every article regarding aforementioned tripe expressing my disdain for how many little kids buy their nonsense,
I have an iphone because I like being able to have a quick look at the net on the train and buses etc and when doing so I like being able to see the pages how they're meant to be, and not the sluggish mess that any other phone i've had would somehow spew out in response to the pages I pointed it at.
I don't use mms as emails are free, higher res and less hassle the other end as whoever receives it doesn't have to bother moving it onto a pc just so they can see it properly. Yeah no 3g but as I said before I prefer having everything displayed properly and **I** am prepared to pay a time premium of a few seconds for that, ever so sorry, but if you dont want to, dont buy an iphone, if you buy one and you dont like, then you can moan about it, but I read very very few negative comments from people who actually have any experience of actually USING the thing, or who disregard every aspect of its clearly awesome design simply because theres no 3g, they OBVIOUSLY have never used an iphone for anything other than a quick fiddle about in a shop or they would be aware of how much 3g would suck the battery, it'd run out in less than a day easily, as has previously been said, over and over again because at the time it was made 3g chips were a lot less efficient than they are now, and you have a big display and load of other stuff running, the difference seems to be the phone companies continue to make phones with other bits shoddily stuck on, whereas the iphone seems to be more of a little computer designed around its central functions, one of which happens to be taking and making telephone calls
"the iPhone does nothing substantially different or better than the 5 year old SEMC P800, which even had MMS and Handwriting!!!ZOMG!!!1! "
This is so laughable I don't even know where to begin.
I upgrade my phones reasonably frequently and over the last 5 years probably had at least 3 phones all of which supposedly "supported" MMS, email and web browsing. In all that entire time I sent precisely one MMS message, received two, visited one web site, and sent and received not a single email! (Not counting the half dozen or so times I visited my operator's home page trying to sell me games and ringtones I didn't want and lumbering me with data charges because I accidentally hit the one touch internet button they oh so helpfully insist on adding to the keypad). Handwriting recognition is even more of a joke. It's years since I last had a device with a stylus and that claimed to do handwriting. I've had a few of those in my time too, sounds like a great idea in theory but completely pointless in practice. If I used the device at all I usually lost the stylus, but that's ok 'cos it didn't work even when I had it.
By contrast, I use email and web on my iPhone *constantly*, because it actually works and is usable, and is useful to me. What do I care if other devices have had superficially the same features on paper years before if they don't bloody work??
And have you noticed that when the iPhone commercials are on TV, all they do is show you the device actually being used? The user interface really does speak for itself. Can you imagine any other consumer electronics device doing that, never mind any other mobile phone?
"I totally agree, any one who thinks £700 costs in the first year before any call or texts is a good deal, must be a tube."
I agree, who on earth would sign any contract which doesnt include minutes or texts, the iphone contract is actually fairly reasonable, in fact, spread over the full term, the price of the handset with the monthly bills is cheaper than my old phone was,
@ Rob & Rolf, the iFans
@ Rob "I agree, who on earth would sign any contract which doesnt include minutes or texts, the iphone contract is actually fairly reasonable, in fact, spread over the full term, the price of the handset with the monthly bills is cheaper than my old phone was,"
What? Did your old phone come with a steam driven charger that you had to run by burning £5 notes?
@ Rolf "And have you noticed that when the iPhone commercials are on TV, all they do is show you the device actually being used? The user interface really does speak for itself. Can you imagine any other consumer electronics device doing that, never mind any other mobile phone?"
Well, duhhh! What else are they gonna do with something that's 'all fur coat and no knickers'? They certainly can't market the iPhone on it's advanced capabilities...
Nokia is Totally Screwed --------------------
Hate to let everyone know, but Nokia simply doesn't have the resources to go up against Apple in the handset market. As most know, the Cell Industry is hugely uncompetitive, practically no innovation has occurred there in 15 years and Steve Jobs sees this quite clearly.
The iPhone is by far the most advanced, easiest to use phone on the market, and sure it's still kinda expensive but so was the iPod way back in 2001. Now the iPod has roughly 70% of the market and it's easy to see Apple's iPhone will have a similar amount of the handset market in 7 years.
Nokia is running very scared now... they simply don't have the computer skills to build products as robust as the iPhone. Sure, they can build a touch screen, but they can't build a "multitouch" screen like the iPhone has. Nokia has no experience with Graphics, Gestures or high resolution screens. So when you use a Nokia it's like going back in time compared to where the iPhone is at on their very first "try". Apple has far more experience in building popular consumer products and the iPhone has been a huge success even surprising Apple by hitting their sales goals nearly 6 months early. Nokia is totally screwed, you read it first here.
The iPhone has 60% of internet web traffic already, where is Nokia? less than 8%. The reason Nokia is so worried is that Apple now controls the entire high end of the Cell Market. Apple always does this, then releases smaller, cheaper, less feature rich products to take away the rest of the market. An iPhone nano? Nokia would go bankrupt if that were to happen!
The solution? - Nokia has to give up on Symbian and get over to Unix based phones in a hurry. They need to learn about computer development, high res graphics, they need to get a PC OS up and running before they stand a chance against Apple. The iPhone SDK comes out in June and has $100 million of "iFund" backing. That's 4 times more money than what Google took to create! Nokia simply doesn't have that kind of computing interest. They still see it as a "phone", when Apple has changed all the rules and now it's a full blown "computer" you carry around in your pocket.
Those are the facts and so I feel sorry for Nokia going forward. Steve Jobs is going to steamroll them, they are way out of their element now that phones are becoming "internet communicators"... and there isn't much Nokia can do about it.
my old phone
was an n93, what a load of crap it was too, I certainly wouldn't subject myself to S60, not even for free, hence why I ended up just buying an iphone since I knew it would do what it says it does, and not claim every feature under the sun and deliver barely any of them
>supposedly "supported" MMS, email and web browsing.
Well, you must have picked the duffers. I've had working email on all my phones for the past 8 years, similar for Web, and MMS for the last 5. OK, so sometimes the configuration was a bit of a dark art, but that has certainly improved over the years. But it worked.
Most new phones come with the correct settings for most of the big operators. Getting the configuration right is trivial if you are targeting just one operator every couple of months. Trying to get it correct for 50, in 20 different countries, first time. That's a challenge.
>In all that entire time I sent precisely one MMS message, received two, visited one web site, and sent and received not a single email!
And? All previous phones were rubbish because you never used the features they had?
>(Not counting the half dozen or so times I visited my operator's home page trying to sell me games and ringtones I didn't want and lumbering me with data charges because I accidentally hit the one touch internet button they oh so helpfully insist on adding to the keypad)
So... Nokia sux because your operator is rubbish? Here's a hint; change operator. Better still, buy unsubsidised handsets that don't have any operator config added on. Better still, buy a handset that allows you to tailor the entire SW stack to suit your needs.
>And have you noticed that when the iPhone commercials are on TV, all they do is show you the device actually being used? The user interface really does speak for itself.
Hmm, that's because it's looks are it's only selling point. It's a shiny video iPod, that does some stuff phones have been doing for years. Meh.
>Handwriting recognition is even more of a joke. It's years since I last had a device with a stylus and that claimed to do handwriting. I've had a few of those in my time too, sounds like a great idea in theory but completely pointless in practice. If I used the device at all I usually lost the stylus, but that's ok 'cos it didn't work even when I had it.
Well, I found that the handwriting on the SEMC P series was pretty good, it took a while to learn the correct glyphs, but with a bit of practice soon became second nature. They used to say the same thing about Palm's handwriting.
As for handwriting being pointless, it was certainly much quicker and more comfortable to write emails with handwriting than with either T9, multi-tap, virtual keyboard, or those cramped little keyboards on the crackberries and clones. Of course, Jobs will be able to invent something revolutionary, perhaps a slide-out keyboard?
iPhone has not sold any better than other hi-end mobiles
>Apple now controls the entire high end of the Cell Market.
That is bollocks. I don't know where people get the idea that iPhone dominates the market. It's just peanuts compared to many other hi-end mobiles, and yes I do mean individual product sales. Maybe people in the US just look at their market and not the global figures.
iPhone is second largest Hi-End Phone
Only Blackberry had more marketshare in Q3 of 2007, now the iPhone is number one of all Hi-End Phones.
That's pretty impressive considering it had 0% share this time last year, now it has 27% of the High-End market. It's the biggest peanut because it sells the best and has the most functionality.
You'll get one soon, don't worry!
The iPhone has Broke all Sales Records...
Anonymous Coward, you are neglecting the fact that the iPhone has become the most popular Smartphone of all time, garnering over 18% of the entire Smartphone market in less than 9 months.
When you get your first iPhone you'll understand why everyone is so excited, but until then, please learn about the cell phone market.