Gordon Brown is rolling ahead with plans to reclassify cannabis as a class B drug, after opting to follow the common sense advice of his police chiefs rather than the Home Office’s own scientists. Brown had asked The Advisory Council on the Misuse of Drugs, an “independent” body with web and physical addresses at the Home Office …
Mr Brown Stoned?
Not listening to advisors? Is he high?
Don't you see?
By reclassifying cannabis as class b it now becomes a chargeable offence to possess it. Now, any chargeable offence results in your DNA being nicked (er, collected) and added to the governments huuuuge database.
Now that the ID scheme is approaching tatters (if not already there) good old Gordo is creating more ways to make everyone a criminal and grab their most intimate physical info that way.
The Alien because they're Gordos bosses and they WANT that database to engineer a docile, mindless slavehttp://www.theregister.co.uk/Design/graphics/icons/comment/alien_32.png
Alien population for the next generation.
... fellow "Paul" - excellent arguments
me too, I ate one sour one too. or, now over 40 years old, started smoking dope at 14... never arrested, never killed anyone, never needed psychiatric support (well - not till this government took over), never wanted to try smack, or crack (well except perhaps *her's*).
Re: ... fellow "Paul" - excellent arguments
Well, you're obviously not doing it right.
"Never murdered anyone, never robbed anyone, never raped anyone, never beat anyone, never lost a job, a car, a house, a wife or kids - laughed my ass off - went about my day. Sorry."
A heinous fluid, referred to colloquially as "Council_Juice" has been positively identified as the precurser to a wretched despoiling of human lives that has been observed in drug dens up and down the country. In surveys, recently an absolutely staggering 100% of all herion addicts admitted (after having lit matches placed under their toes) that before becoming hooked on smack they had, in fact, drunk water, scientific name "dihydrogen monoxide".
Yet more lies and the slaughtering of science
I have started to get the feeling that whenever the New Labour government commissions a study, we can guarantee that their policies will not reflect their advisors results. We consistently see labour government requesting these reports because they do not believe the general opinions, and then when they see the evidence spelled out by their own (paid by government) advisors, they still do not believe it. The simple answer on this issue is that a down-grading reduced overall usage here, as it did in Amsterdam. The only argument for upgrading this drug would be to reverse the results of the down-grading ... which would mean to increase the illegal usage of this widespread drug.
People do not for the most part do things because the government tells them to, though there is a section of sheep-minded labour supporters who will do so, but rather will continue on the guidance of their own moral compasses. These will vary from individual to individual, but trying to ban low harm behaviour (and by anyone's measure a 1.2% against 1.4% rate of pschosis is a tiny movement, especially when not adjusted for usage rates within potential psychotic cases to prove a "causal" link) will only alienate the intelligent people who do not agree. This is an autocratic approach to government where we are supposed to be a representative democracy. The status-quo, media leverage and fallicious reporting figures help to goad people to vote for a backwards status-quo. The liberal minded people are often intelligent but free-thinkers who realise that we need to respond rationally to what people at large "choose" to do, rather than to instruct every action as if the voters are children until we are all work obsessed sheep with no motivation beyond securing a public-sector, middle management job where we can profit from other's work whilst thinking as little as possible. New labour ignores strong-minded people at their own peril, and I have to hope that the nation will wake up enough to cast them out.
Cooking the figures (such as official violent crim figures, against the official police violent crime figures for example), and supressing the reports you have yourself commissioned ... it does not win respect, if merely insults the thinkers at large in the nation. I consider the government to be a very bad example of what it means to be British, as they smack more of the colonial arrogance than seeming a supporter or their own people.
Think on this when you smoke tobacco...
The smoke that doth so high ascend
Shows that our lives must have an end
The vapor's gone
Man's life is done
Think on this when you smoke tobacco
Old people remember (possibly) the days long before skunk when it was mainly sticky brown stuff from India, Pakistan and Afghanistan. The good stuff was on par with today's skunk, possibly better. Not all skunk is that good either.
Yes, skunk is hell of a lot stronger than the bog-standard 'cooking' hash but due to HM Gov inc. (who outlawed cannabis in turn for goodies from the U.S.) and the War on Drugs tm. it becomes economic sense to the crooks to get rid of the hassle of smugging the stuff in and grow the stuff locally.
If it were legal I'd be happy to have a small plantation indoors but I'm forced to choose between the crooks that run the brewing industry and the crooks that run the weed industry. I can't afford the booze.
What folks are also forgetting is that young people are going out and getting wasted as quick as possible - whether with blow or booze, it doesn't matter - it's what young people do. Not so long ago it was all about young people necking E's and other pills by the dozen
As long as marijuana is illegal to any extent, it will be sold by criminals, who will endanger the lives of police officers and the general public in their efforts to avoid arrest. So, it is highly appropriate, irrespective of the specific dangers of the drug itself, to have severe penalties for its users while it is illegal. Instead, scientific evidence on the dangers of marijuana are relevant to determining if it is not dangerous enough to be illegal, so that it would be sold in licensed outlets like beverage alcohol.
I too have been a smoker for a few years, if anything, starting smoking it almost full time brought me out of the depressive, suicidal few years i'd been having, it lifted my spirits and actually made me enjoy things again, it also made me cut down my alcohol consumption by half, considering that I consume a crate of beer a week now, that obviously cuts down on tax.
I was also on Incapacity benefit, not anymore, I'm actively looking for work now, I want to get back into the swing of things and try to make something of my life.
The problem I have is when the rozzers shut down these factories and local 'dealers' that only deal weed, and then have their own moral code not to sell to X+Y, we end up with sub-standard shit that could potentially kill you (ground glass to up the weight anyone?)
Yes, yes, I know it's illegal and I shouldn't smoke it, but it grows in the ground, mother nature made it and I feel ace when on it. I will not pander to governments will of "NO SMOKING!" nor will I suddenly decide 'I know, I want to get higher than that, where's the heroin?'
For Atuins sake, my life, let me smoke, let me drink, let me eat what I want, I'm here 80 years if I don't get stabbed to death by a hoodie for already looking like a rocker, I'm going to die anyway, let me enjoy my time here you ignorant fascist bastards.
/rant never over on this subject.
and another thing.... :)
another thing that annoys me is the use of the word 'skunk' this is like referring to all cars as a 'focus'
there are thousands of varieties of bud that can be grown - skunk being aruond the middle! at the upper end you have varieties like Northern Lights - which i was smoking 15 years ago! - with thc levels 20+, whereas you can get much lower THC strains such as FLO - whch is about 5/6 - slightly more potent than the old style resin that we all wish would come back!
and all this shit about weed never being that strong in the 60s... bollocks. you get some of the haze varieties now - they have been around for years and are still on the top of the 'get you hammered' list
2 or 3 plants will easily be enough to keep a couple of people going - imagine wiping out 'dealers' and having a law that allowed upto 4 plants per house. i would even be happy for someone to come round and check it for H&S :)
...is partly due it being full of all sorts of other shit, partly, because the source is not trustworthy.
Gin used to have a fair bit of methanol in it at one time.
@Daily Mail Reader
"it will be sold by criminals, who will endanger the lives of police officers and the general public in their efforts to avoid arrest."
Sorry, but that's utter bollocks. Your typical 4AM drug raid poses no danger to the general public, and very little danger to the police in most cases, as you'd well know if you'd ever seen one.
Real life != "The Bill", or whatever arsewash ITV drama you're basing that opinion on.
"So, it is highly appropriate, irrespective of the specific dangers of the drug itself, to have severe penalties for its users while it is illegal."
Oh really ? OK then how about, next time you're flashed by a speed camera, you do five years at Brenda's pleasure. It's illegal to exceed the posted limit, so it 's "highly appropriate .. to have severe penalties", regardless of weather you were doing a ton on an empty stretch of four lane at 2 in the morning or driving at 60 through a busy school crossing area at 3:45 on a Friday afternoon.
UK drug policy formulated by the US state department
When Blindgit reclassified cannabis to class C, Condleeza Rice hopped on a plane, and paid the then home secretary a visit, soon after his political life was ruined and Dumbo Clark took over, and as if by magic, he was violently in favour of reclassification, since then this has simmered away, and not much has been said until now, flying in the face of all the research, (funded by our taxes), our comrade leader sticks his head in the sand,(and offers his/our asses up to Bush and his gang of fools), most if not all of the UK drug laws relate to American government attitudes/opinions. I wonder what lies we'll be force fed next? Paris Hilton is smarter than Stephen Hawking anyone?? Or Dubya knows where Osama really lives??
Who do we vote for now?
Interesting that in Switzerland we had a majority of politicians, police chiefs, doctors asking for cannabis to be decriminalized, the change of law almost happened but is now delayed...
When 500'000 adults over 6 millions admit to smoke couple of times a year, it's annoying to want to put them all 5 years in jail for possession.
Those wanting to put pot smokers in jail are usually the same wanted to put parents in jail too if the state can't force their children on Ritalin, interesting too.
Politic's is easy, follow the money...
The Voice of the People Register No to Reclassification, Ma Broon.
Downing Street Smoke In ......Breathe in the Love. ...... http://jamesstgeorge.proboards32.com/index.cgi?board=UKdomestic&action=display&thread=1207226971&page=2#1207286047
By the way, in the Dutch coffee shop model, cannabis in not legalised, it is only tolerated and peer pressure controlled with Police assistance/oversight/liaison. It is certainly not encouraged and condoned, it is just available for adults with a mind of their own to enjoy a high time.
When are Governments going to learn the Simplest of Lessons ....... they are there, and are paid from Taxation, NOT to Show a Lead of their Own but to Server the needs of the People and Provide them with what they want. If they want to try and Lead, show us something new that they can supply and provide funding for rather than pilfering from the Public Purse to suit/feed/house themselves at everyone else's expense. Wise up to the Future being Different from the Past. Do something Original that doesn't criminalise Society and set them against Public Servants.
You know IT makes Sense.
ole poltician creed
If the facts do not support your position, get rid of the facts.
Re: "The Association of Chief Police Officers has lobbied hard for the drug to be effectively recriminalised."
And I always thought the role of the cops was to simply enforce the law of the land, not to revise, interpret or create it.
If the root problem is a health issue then surely the NHS, BMA, or MRC should be doing the lobbying, not the boys in blue.
It's high time ACPO had a nasty slip on the steps on the way down to the cells...
Religion = bad politics
I think that Gordon Brown considers what God says to be much more important than advice from any scientist. After all, when mere real world observation comes up against spiritual enlightenment there can be only one winner.
Brown is Blair all over again - all that's happened is that a Presbyterian 'child of the manse' has replaced a man for whome the Church of England wasn't religious enough. The Catholic 'we must teach people not to sin' Thought Police attitude of Blair has changed to the 'you're bloody well not sinning on MY watch' authoritarian attitude of Brown, but the basic 'my decisions are 'informed' by my faith' religiosity is the same.
Brown has got to go
There was a time when smoking cannabis made me feel better. When it stopped doing so, I stopped smoking it and moved on. I now choose not to smoke it because I don't want to, not because it's illegal. All the time people want something they will get it. I like my Dutch friend's attitude, "I don't know what all the fuss is about. Cannabis is there and I can get it if I want it, not if I don't." A female French friend said almost an identical thing about pornography. IMHO these attitudes are much more healthy and don't encourage people to try forbidden fruit.
I believe in responsibility. Most people smoke cannabis with tobacco which carries health issues regardless of whether the cannabis does or not. If I light up a spliff I believe I must accept the downsides as well as the upsides. I made an informed decision and whatever the consequences of that are they are my responsibility.
For the good of our country we have to get rid of these arrogant, corrupt parasites. When NuLabour were elected they told us "things will only get better." Well they haven't. We now have a country where there are so many badly-targeted laws that they've got something on everyone in case they want something to use against you if you're doing something legal they don't like. A country where every law with "freedom" in the title is a lie that takes away more of that freedom than it gives. Like the freedom of speech provisions in the Human Rights Act that basically say we are free to say what we like unless the Government thinks it's necessary to restrict it for public order, national security, the prevention of crime or for the economic well-being of the country. Under those definitions they can stop us from saying just about anything.
If I get caught short on the way home and can't find a toilet I get labelled an no different from a kiddie-fiddler for stopping at the woods and taking a piss behind a tree. Welcome to (Not Great Any More) Britain; The country where you just haven't been caught yet. I'm an educated person in a well-paying job. I own my own company. I should be on the side of the Police and feel they are on my side. I'd now be worried about reporting a crime in case the Police find something I've done that I didn't know was illegal and I ended up in more trouble than the criminal.
Almost everything is illegal now and just about anything else can be caught under the "economic well-being" heading. If they chose to enforce it we could now be prevented from talking about file sharing ("harms" companies which "harms" the economy.) It's already almost illegal to organise a protest boycot against a company (Conspiracy to Injure Business.) There was no restriction on free speech until the free speech law came in.
Whatever the Conservatives say about Labour being bad they won't give away any of the power Labour have given them if they get elected. When's the last time you saw a politician say they have too much power and should return some of it?
Oh well at least it will help with the crime figures. "Right sonny, that's a spliff, you're nicked." Crime detected; Crime solved (Tick in the box.) Much easier than catching the real criminal that mugged that old lady or stole the stereo from someone's car. We'd have to work and spend money to find them.
Well I guess we now know who had his hand up Tony Blair's **** operating the controls.
Would that be Frank Skinner then ?
Talk about debasing the English language.
No wonder those poor young kids with really dodgy upbringings are f*cking confused and showing signs of psychic stress after smoking a spliff. Apart from a spliff usually containing the poisonous substance nicotine. I wonder what head state the Afghani and Iraqi kids heads are in ? This sort of mental illness is a product of living in the UK, or trying to.
It isn't double standards. It's just another huge pile of absolute f*cking bollocks cooked up by those skunks who're holding the pan handle. Tax payers money spent on facist propaganda aimed at the youff and being broadcast on public radio and television.
Let's be Frank.
Lets talk to Frank.
Which f*cking Frank are they on about ?
Let's be Shameless then.
Let's be Frank Skinner.
We have accepted that simply reading the Daily Wail, being fat, rich, straight and also being caught lying to the public again and again, is the real crime. We seem to be in a bit of a pickle though. What can we do about it ? Democracy isn't working !
How about this for a solution ?
Next voting day, let's all get so stoned that we can't leave the house/flat/bedsit/cardboard box.
Then we can dick around all day - doing whatever it is that we like. Inventing new Web2 architectures or playing LAN games, whatever, on our personal computing devices of choice. Hanging loose, keeping cool, we could also use that old reprobate of the ether, "file sharing", and caste our own votes in a World Techies Parliament (WTP) aka What The Pot ! (well, OK, UK it is then ! But the anagram looks more homegrown some how. UKTP.)
Maybe UKTHC, like a techno agora.
Let's face it.
If Gordon and his bag full of over paid cronies are looking to public opinion to inform them of which way to jump when the dogs do bark, we can optimise the whole process for them by leaving the buggers out of the loop.
As you do, when considering all important decisions.
And think of the money we'll save on the government IT programmes alone.
Just Do It.
The government will export (oops, I mean transport) them to third world countries where they can get far better quality stuff for pennies !!
While I,m not keen on that stuff, I'm totally against thoughtless legislation that have to be undone when the manure meets the rotating object BIG TIME !!
Rise in psychosis
When did this rise actually occur? Was it over the last 10 years or so? In which case it is more likely attributable to NuLabour than anything else.
More sinister, why is ACPO involved so much in pressing for more illegality? The police are (allegedly) there to uphold the law. So far as I am concerned upholding and making are quite different. ACPO is hardly a representative or trustworthy organisation. The police have shown repeatedly that they cannot be trusted.
I have said many times, the rise of the police state needs to be reversed. Those who think they have nothing to fear, have been hiding for too long! They will find a way to criminalise you too. The sooner people seriously object to the continuing criminalisation of everything in their lives, the sooner we may be able to hold our heads up and feel proud to be British again.
Skunk hysteria and "Common sense".
The hysteria over stronger concentrations of thc in skunk is just palpable nonsense. Ok, it's two and a half times stronger than it used to be? Even a completely wasted caner is capable of figuring out that, oh I dunno, maybe I'll put a bit less in each spliff. Why it's beyond the wit of politicos and tabloid journos to figure out the same solution is beyond me.
And as for "common sense" solutions. Common sense is what tells you the earth is flat. That's why we have things like research and studies, to *test* our common-sense assumptions and validate them against reality, because they can easily be 180 degrees the wrong way round and we really, really, just DO NOT KNOW without checking.
So if the studies say it's not more harmful and more people are NOT, in fact, being harmed, I'd start looking around for a reason why maybe we /assume/ that things have got worse.
And I'd start by looking at the social hysteria being manufactured by aforementioned not-actually-as-bright-as-the-druggies-they're-freaking-out-about politicos and journos. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy: first all the authority figures start insisting that it's making people insane and causing crime, next thing you know any half bright chav who's up before the beak is trying the "It's not my fault, guv, I was stoned on that skunk stuff which as we all KNOW makes you not responsible for your actions". Dumb old-fart judges take these pleas at face value, because /they've/ all been spluttering into their cornflakes over the stories in their morning Telegraph about the terrors of this new killer weed, journos write up about all the drug-crazed hoodie muggers currently going through the courts and how the courts are going too easy on them, politicos point the finger at these reports when trying to stir up a bit of self-publicity by appearing "tough on drugs an crime", and the whole cycle repeats itself, entirely fuelled by mob hysteria and a basis of unchecked assumptions that in fact turn out to have NO basis in reality.
It's a classic witchhunt, a mob-hysteria-led groupthink in which people consider themselves to absolutely certainly "know" many things which are utterly without basis in reality and use those received truths as the basis for punitiive opression against a section of society. It's just like the witch trials, when everyone absolutely KNEW without doubt that there were such things as witches and that the common sense solution was to have more trials and burn more people, and (surprise surprise!) the more trials they had, funnily enough, the more witches they found!
Self-delusion is always self-reinforcing if you try hard enough. That's what we have science, logic and reason to help protect ourselves from. We (as a society) must not be using them as well as we should be.
Can't help thinking
that if the advisory report had agreed with Brown, he'd have been quoting it endlessly...
but it can screw you up
its a fact cannabis in some people can fetch on schizophrenia.
Schizophrenia regardless of what some of the idiots above says is not just mental problems (everybody has them at some time) what it is is a life long debilitating illness
Oh its just 1% to 2 % who are affected,would you walk through a door it there was a one in fifty chance of you being totally fucked up for the rest of your life ?
My answer is no thanks
@but it can screw you up ........ Caveat emptor.
If that is the correct interpretation/consequence in schizophrenia ..."Schizophrenia regardless of what some of the idiots above says is not just mental problems (everybody has them at some time) what it is is a life long debilitating illness" ...... then its inclusion in the cannabis debate may be suspect and only included for maximum sensationalist effect/cynical abuse/spin.
That is not to say that it should not be included though, for such broad spectrum advice/scare-mongering is a quite valid control parameter used in all foodstuffs/additives/medicines/drugs...... but it only has a limited validity, totally shot to pieces, if it is abused/overused.
Abuse and/or overuse of cannabis may present the risk but the advice given with all preparations for human consumption is always never to abuse/overuse/overdose as they all will render self harm.
I don't know if anybody's mentioned this as yet
But I don't think it matters. After the reclassification to class C, the penalties were adjusted so that class C drugs carried the old class B penalties, and class B and A penalties were upped.
All that's going to change is where on the sheet of paper the word Cannabis will appear in the ranking of illegal drugs. What a waste of time and effort. This is why I only vote in order to keep the Conservatives and BNP out - party politics is otherwise a shower of shite.
"We don't make the law"
Just remember, when a policeman next tells you "We don't Make the Law", you can actually correctly inform him that they do.
Grassing up pompous shit stirrers .....but mindful that they may be useful idiots.
"If Gordon and his bag full of over paid cronies are looking to public opinion to inform them of which way to jump when the dogs do bark, we can optimise the whole process for them by leaving the buggers out of the loop.
As you do, when considering all important decisions.
And think of the money we'll save on the government IT programmes alone.
Just Do It.
Alf" .... By Alfazed Posted Sunday 6th April 2008 08:23 GMT
Sound advice, Alf, and more are just doing exactly that and launching much better Beta government IT programmes which do leave them out of the loop.
Of course, you know what will happen whenever they eventually realise that they are considered an ineffectual joke and a liability ......the buggered over-paid cronies will then, if they have any SMARTs at all, step up to the plate with loadsamoney/Flash Gordon Cash to buy into the Programming Project ...... and the Humble Pie will be a lot sweeter and much healthier for them than the present rancid fare they gorge on and disgorge. It is either that or the Headcases are Doomed, Doomed, Darling.
"Skunk hysteria and "Common sense".....By Anonymous Coward Posted Sunday 6th April 2008 13:34 GMT
A very succinct analysis, AC.
The danger of Cannibals
Cannibals ? how can anyone claim that cannibals are not dangerous ? My old Great Uncle Buffy was eaten by cannibals while walking across East Timor in '98.....oh, canabis. Sorry, wrong glasses.
@Brian & @amanfromMars
"but it can screw you up"
Sure it can screw you up. So can working your whole life at a dead-end rat-race job for an uncaring boss in a faceless corporation. So can getting out of bed in the morning, and you might get run over by a bus tomorrow, and even if you stay in bed you've still gotta watch out for the meteorites, and... and ... and. There are potential risks and rewards in any decision in life and it's up to each individual how they draw up their personal cost-benefit assessment.
"Oh its just 1% to 2 % who are affected,would you walk through a door it there was a one in fifty chance of you being totally fucked up for the rest of your life ?"
But that's not what it's like. If you want a fair comparison, you would have to say "Would you walk through a door if there was a one in X chance of you being totally fucked up for the rest of your life, and a one in Y chance of that happening anyway even if you don't walk through the door, and a (X-1) chance in X of you not being totally fucked up if you do walk through the door, /and/ a one out of one chance of a variety of what you may regard as psychological, social, philosophical and hedonistic benefits"
"My answer is no thanks"
Totally respect your decision. Mine is "Yes please". I took the chance and walked through the door. Then I came back. Then I went through it again. Then I jumped about and giggled a lot. Went to a lot of festivals. Learnt to play music. Studied biology, psychology and neurology at university. Went to a lot of raves. Learned a lot about the law and my rights. Became politically active. Developed a career. Went to a lot of places, met a lot of people, learned and experienced a lot that I might never have become curious about if I hadn't taken that risk.
Twenty-something years on I have absolutely no doubt I made the right decision, and if I had to make it again I'd do it the same. And smiling. :-)
High praise indeed. Thanks for your kind words!
Hit them where it hurts
My friend and confirmed pot smoker (who holds down a job Mon to Fri 9 to 5 which is a major responsibility in one of the country's finest institutions) has decided not to drink alcohol as a result of this move by G. Brown. This may actually be the consumer weapon of choice in combating this outrageous political nonsense.
If all the pot smokers stopped buying alcohol the tax implications to the treasury would be devastating. Don't worry, you would only have to do it for one week just to show your own fiscal muscle.
We can all talk on blogs etc., but my friend's idea seems to me to be a bloody good one. "If I can't smoke my spliff then I am not buying their dangerous and tax heavy alcohol"
Our government tried this
In South Australia, our Premier Mike Rann decided last year he was going to recriminalise cannabis (it's only an on-the-spot fine of $70 here in Adelaide right now.) But for him, there was just one small problem: 39 percent of Adelaide's population are pot smokers (all the potheads from interstate moved here because of our lax cannabis law). So when Rann said he intended to recriminalise cannabis (so instead of a $70 fine you'd get up to 5 years) the newspapers and TV stations jumped down his throat. "So, Mr. Rann, you are going to suddenly turn over a third of Adelaide's population into criminals are you? So you're going to spend billions on a bloody great city-sized prison to put all those people in are you?"
Oops. Well, he backed right down after that, the issue was quietly buried, we continued smoking our pot unmolested, and dear Mr Rann forgot about the War on Drugs and went back to removing a few more other civil liberties in the name of the War on Terror instead. Pot will not be recriminalised in Adelaide, no matter who is in office. Which a) makes me love our local media for helping to keep our government's idiocy in check, and b) makes me thankful I live here!
Paris because she's a lot more fun after smoking a fat blunt...
"So, Mr. Rann, you are going to suddenly turn over a third of Adelaide's population into criminals are you? So you're going to spend billions on a bloody great city-sized prison to put all those people in are you?"
isnt that australia anyway :)
i now wish we had let the none crims go to Oz and let the crims stay in miserable old blighty!
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