Snorting cocaine is an environmental crime whatever your views on drug use, scientists declared last week. A panel of scientists meeting at the Natural History Museum in London last week detailed how the production of the drug and its trafficking affect biodiversity and contribute to climate change. The production of a gram of …
Release the inner fascist
There are personal horror stories to be told about all kinds of things - booze and other drugs, cars, bikes, physical volence etc. etc. Shit happens. That's life. It's terminal in case you hadn't heard.
However don't lose sight of the fact that no one has the right to tell anyone else what they can or can't do with own nervous system. It's immoral, indefensible, unenforceable and worst of all, it's the slippery slope which we are already sliding down towards a well-meaning fascist state, where we all spy on each other, you can punished for thinking the wrong thoughts and heaven forbid you choose to have an opinion which doesn't have the Daily Mail's seal of approval.
It's my nervous system - you do not have the right to impose your views of right and wrong over what I choose to do with it. I take responsibility for my actions, you take responsibility for yours. Leave your little inner fascist out of it.
Your argument is based on personal opinion and not fact. You've been unlucky to see such tragedys. Thats all it is though. I've not been lucky, you've been unlucky.
Nicotene is physically addictive as is Heroin. Cocaine isn't and thats fact. You can find yourself mentally dependent on it but it all balls down to your personality on if you fall into a trap or not.
I'm sorry i think you may have my dealer confused with one from a TV show or something because he has no dependents on the or any other drug.
People who ruin their lives blame drugs for doing so. Thats bullshit. No one forces drugs upon you, its a choice you make. If you choose to abuse drugs to an extreme you have emotional problems and should seek help. I guarentee there's just as many people abusing alcohol for that same reason as there is all illegal drugs combined.
illegal/legal won't make a difference
i don't see why legalising concaine would result in the cocaine growers suddenly switching to environmentally friendly methods
you guys are clearly snorting the charlie if you think so
the producers of concaine are in it for the money. if concaine suddenly becomes legal, then these people aren't suddenly going to go legit and pay their taxes. they'll keep producing it illegally because it's cheaper that way. also, they'll cut their costs to remain in the competition and undercut the legal producers (who have to pay taxes and employee healthcare and drug rehab schemes).
and the cheaper methods of production are going to be even more environmentally damaging than their current methods
If it becomes legal, then the reasoning would go that it would be regulated and taxed.
The regulated bit means that standards and such would be applied, and that things would be carefully monitored.
Doesn't mean it would happen, but that is the reasoning.
"Oh wait, you're implying that the only drugs that can destroy families are the ones that our guardians have deemed illegal, "
No. We are talking about the illegal drugs so that is what I commented on. Stay in focus.
"If adults of normal intelligence CHOOSE to take cocaine, and then get addicted, and ruin their lives, I could care less."
No comment required.
"actually gnuber, contrary to what gmtv
seems to have taught you NOT everyone who tries "drugs" instantly becomes hooked and dies, THAT is utter nonsense, why would anyone try it?!?
Yeah kids are so good at making those decisions. From the look of some streets near me I'd must say I'm not optimistic about adult abilities either.
"It takes a bit of effort to develop a dependancy on anything other than the truly addictive (and nasty) stuff like heroin or crack"
Right and Coca fields will still be there, and spreading, to produce crack. Poppy fields for heroin. Drug cartels and distribution networks won't vanish. Carpet bomb'em.
"Hold the phone there sunshine. I'm an avid cocaine user and I'm not a mess."
Wow. Someone who got away without serious consequences (I'm happy to take your word on that. Seriously). So I guess it's ok to legalise so everyone can start 'hoovering it up' without personal or legal consequences. Maybe when they start advertising their products you can start another career as product spokesperson. You know, the cool guy in the ad!
And there was that comment about the environmental impact of the Abrams Tank? Typical & WTF.
Pointless discussion really. Those who have dealt with the consequences will feel one way, those who want to party will go the other way... and never the twain shall meet.
I'm outa here.
Full disclosure sorta
I said I was outa here but one last comment:
I'm an older guy (no surprise there) and it was my generation that made recreational drug use socially acceptable on a broad scale. I was part of that idiocy and said many of the same things that pro-legalisation people are saying here. Now I look around and see the consequences (ignore the criminal and look at the social) and it is one of the big regrets of my life.
The sad thing is that each generation is as stupid and arrogant as the ones preceeding it and thinks that it knows what is going on, what should be done, and what the consequences will be.
Legalise the drug and you create a legitimate market. Believe it or not, people will naturally prefer to buy their drugs with a bit of a quality control guarantee. There may continue to be a smugglers market, but it won't be financed by the producers, it will be at the duty avoidance end as it is with booze and fags or by internet counterfeiters selling crap to gullible idiots. And if you think the coke producers won't go legit, you're mad. Even if they paid taxes, there are still huge fortunes to be made because the market would be larger and their end cost of distribution would drop through the floor, more than offsetting the increased taxes, coupled with a dramtically increased opportunity for them to actually live long enough to enjoy their profits.
This isn't just supposition, we have the real example of the end of prohibition in the US to show us what would happen; no doubt, just like in the US, a lot of rich former drug runners turned legit would turn to politics, just like a certain family from Massachusetts who made their fortune in the bootlegging business.
@ Graham Jordan.
I see those years of drug abuse have totally destroyed your ability to spell. A cracking advert for drug use.
Either you didn't read it properly or chose not to understand.
I never said that your dealer was an addict, I was referring to his/her other customers (does he vet them for suitability) does he do a credit check to see if they can afford his wares? does he care where the money comes from? (the fu*k he does)
Physical or psychological addiction is irrevelant it's a dependance. Just as some people depend on masturbation. Like those rats having their pleasure centres stimulated.
All too often it's the psychological addictions which are the hardest ones to break. Look at anorexia and it's related disorders.
TBH I don't give too much of a shit if people destroy their own lives (though it's sad) but it's their choice. But I do really give a shit when they destroy those around them to get the funds for their selfish pleasures.
Yeah I hate the little shites in hoodies that beat on people to fund their cheap larger & buckfast, just as much, but thats a different topic. As is what I think should be done to drink (or drug drivers) whom I loathe (lost a friend to them too)
I salute your good fortune on more than one level (I actually do). But just becasue it worked OK for you (so far) dosn't mean that the rest of the world is 100% wrong. Even if there are few instant addicts there are still way too many addicts (and I agree that the goverment saying "just don't do it2 simply dosn't work either)
Everybody has their own pet drug (though I notice some drug snobbery). I won't even go into the horror story of the last person I heard coming out with coke is fine but heroin is evil.
As RA Wilson said it's actually a war on SOME drugs. But sometimes you have to decide what is a really bad idea and try to do something about it.
I too am an older person. I too went through the '60s. I didn't 'do' any drugs. As I was in the RN the mind altering substances of choice for matelows were beer & fags. I partook of these in quantity. :)
Now I don't smoke. Anyone else wants to smoke - go ahead, you know the risks & it's your life.
I still drink. You want a drink, find; touch my pint & you suffer :)
People have the right to make their own mistakes, it's called learning. you do not and should not have the right to tell me what I can and cannot do. That is a dictatorship.
The American experiment with prohibition showed the foolishness of trying to ban something that was wanted by a large portion of the population. Similarly, when these 'recreational' drugs are legalised then the situation will improve. It will never be perfect, people aren't perfect. Someone will always screw up and abuse anything that is enjoyed peaceably by millions (just look at Phorm).
With legalisation though the problems will be more exposed. treatments can become easier to obtain as they should be the tax revenue to support them.
A lot of damage to health from drugs is caused by the substances used to cut the original drug, and by the varying quality / strength of the drug itself. having pharmaceutical companies produce these drugs will give a reliable product at a reasonable price. The price hikes will be due to the greedy politicians over taxing them.
All in all there are too many benefits for legalising drugs and not enough for maintaining their illegal status. They will be legalised, it is just a matter of when.
R A Wilson
Robert Anton Wilson is (/was :( ) awesome
I don't think anything should be illegal because someone may get psychologically addicted to it, as someone could get psychologically addicted to ANYTHING, there was a woman who became psychologically addicted to DRINKING WATER! Ban this sick filth now, we must destroy all remaining h2o!! its our only hope..
Decide what is a really bad idea and try to do something about it.
But what if when you decide to do something about it, you actually create a worse problem.
The bomb 'em guy, presumably doesn't also support blowing away the consumers in his own country? Is it just what them foreigners are doing that deserves carpet bombing?
The fact is that even when we put people in an environment as locked down as prison we can't stop them getting drugs.
The crime associated with drugs is largely an artifact of the illegality of drugs, legal drugs would be cheaper and therefore less theft to fund them would occur and help would be available to those who need it (now they worry about getting locked up) there would be no territorial wars between rival drug dealers, while on the downside the health issues would probably be greater.
...what a load of bullshit...so much hypocrisy... look into the amount of land being cleared for Biofuel crops, another fucking pipedream from the wet dream wonderland of modern Covenment. But no, it's cocaine, and don't you know it's bad for you? Like when you smoke cannabis somewhere god kills an Iraqi.. Oh no, hang on, that would be our troops...what a crock of shit. Don't take cocaine because it destroys the rainforest - oh fuck off - they clear rainforests for all sorts of crap far less entertaining than coke, I say that and I don't even buy the shit anymore, since I figured out most of the money was going to government agencies and not `terrorists`...hang on....AAhhh now I see....
Another thing, seeing as they seem to care so much about the environment at present, maybe they should stop spraying paraquat and all manner of other lethal (to everything living) chemicals as part of their `show` they they are really trying to stop this `evil` trade....ah I can't be bothered.... what's the point, we're all doomed with these muppets in charge. 28 Weeks later, Orwell, here we come.
War on Drugs
The War on Drugs is partly maintained because it's a political hot potato - there are still enough tards around who believe the party line that all drug use is automatically bad.
It's also financially and politically profitable. From a US standpoint, it helps to politically destabilise South America. The 'Drug Czar' holds a cabinet-level post in the US government. Untold numbers of jobs are tied into this matter. Finally, can you *imagine* how much profit is made by the parties who prosecute the 'War'?
It might be interesting to follow the money trails from the involved companies back to wherever...
Some chance of the price going down, it will be taxed to buggery and back again. More likely the price will go up
Right heres my plan
1) Legalise it
2) Apply Fair Trade product Standards
3) Go Organic for the premium stuff
4) Tax the crap out of it
5) Use the profits to build myself a new Prime Ministers Palace and finance a few wars to pass the time
6) Save the planet.
I imagine only a couple of them are practical.
Paris - She would be a good spoke woman whose knowledge and experience of the product you could trust - allegedly
AJ Styles and many others, I sure agree with what you said. Being illegal makes a bigger mess, etc..
But I'd like to point out that going legal would most probably NOT help the environmental causes, logical thinking notwithstanding.
You see, that is South America. Regulations exist to be ignored, specially the ones dealing with environmental issues. (big capital loves to look "social" in such cases: "we should not care about monkeys when children are starving!!!") I am from Brazil, but I'm pretty sure Colombia is in the same situation. Do you think the LEGAL activities do not destroy our part of the Amazon forest at an amazing pace? Do you think our legal and "regulated" industries refrain from dumping chemicals wherever they want? You should see out rivers in São Paulo. No need to see, just smell it...
For example, the diesel we use there has concentrations of sulfur hundreds of times higher than what's considered adequate in "developed" countries. Great stuff for your lungs, asthmatics love it (not). And that's the legal situation. Imagine when things are done ignoring the law.
"Have you never seen the destruction of a friend or family member or whoever by drug use? Maybe you should get out into the real world."
As some others said, there are some legal ones that kill: Alcohol and tobacco come into mind. If you agree to keep the ban on coke/marijuana/whatever, then you should agree to ban tobacco. Why?
- That crap sticks in your lungs FOREVER.
- Second-hand smoke will affect everyone NEARBY, unlike coke snorters where they waste only themselves.
Legalize marijuana, coke; ban tobacco!!! ;)
the war, on drugs
ImaGnuber, just stop, please just shut up and keep your nanny-fannying for those nearest and weirdest to you. The "I've lived through the 60's" rubbish doesn't give you any better or worse perspective than anyone else. I lived through punk and rave ... can I lecture you on the evils of whizz and discos ? Of course I can but I'm not, please also try not to be an arse.
The two basic problems you haven't addressed with pro-prohibition are the institutional insubordination inherent after personally experiencing a pleasant drug experience following years of government anti-drug propoganda, and the shattering of millions of lives as a result of getting mixed up in the perfectly understandable, excusable human desire to get high - so becoming a criminal, getting caught and being locked up and being really unable to hold a job down and being a real drain on society and fulfilling all of the fears you attribute to drugs and their over-hyped addictive quality.
Very few illegal drugs can cause physical dependency quickly, many are capable of inducing an extremely pleasant feeling that leaves a strong mental desire to take a drug again, or over and over - eventually creating physical dependency of a sort, but the big problem is the human brain and its poorly constructed reward mechanism which cannot discriminate between genuine and fake induced emotion. The ego also adapts too quickly to a new experience or situation and sets up a mental tolerance far quicker than any physical immunity. Why do we have such mental shortcomings ? Because unfortunately a benevolent creator did not build us out of handy lego bricks instead we are a semi-random collection of mutated fleshy bits that worked well enough to get sex and reproduce (and die by 30) on the plains of Africa but have no facilities specifically to function beyond.
In short criminalisation, like imasaddeludedgruber, is wrong. VERY WRONG.
Whilst it's true to say...
... that the majority of problems caused by drugs are as a result of prohibition rather than the direct effects of the drugs, legalisation would not make all the problems go away and drugs do have a negative effect on personality and behaviour no matter what spin and propaganda the pro-drugs (read people who profit from the sale of drugs (and drug users)) will tell you.
And whilst it's true that many people take drugs purely because they are illegal and people want to rebel against authority, if drugs were legal, more people would take drugs with the excuse of "it's legal, so why shouldn't I?"
Whether you take cocaine or not, whether you support legalisation of cocaine or not, it's hard to deny that schoolchildren carrying and using cocaine routinely, being sold it from cars outside the school gates, is an extremely bad state of affairs.
lots of comments you junkie bastards!
is better - wooo