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back to article Road charging, the sequel - Kelly unveils 'wired m-way' plans

UK national road pricing is, for the present, a dead duck. Or - as Transport Secretary Ruth Kelly put it yesterday - "many years away". Instead, new car sharing and toll lanes figured high in Kelly's publicity - but the actual plans are a deal more interesting, effectively proposing a graduated switch to a managed motorway …

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  1. Steve

    @ Tom Kelsall

    "ANPR also isn't a problem to me because I maintain a legal status as a driver and vehicle keeper and can prove it at the roadside."

    So, let me get this straight. You don't fear anything because there is nothing that you feel you need to hide? I think we all know how valid that particular argument is.

    For the hard of thinking; the problem isn't *your* legal status, the problem is when they come to data mine the information and you have to prove that your not a terrorist. Why? Because your regular parking spot happens to be next to a house that was used by an asylum seeker. The dictator he's fleeing from happens to be sat on a shitload of oil so we're rounding up his dissenting citizens as "terrorist suspects".

    Unfortunately, the security machine isn't interested in such subtleties and you have repeatedly been in proximity of a suspect making you suspicious by association. The fact that you've never met him is immaterial because that's just what you'd say if you were a terrorist.

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  2. Anonymous Coward
    Paris Hilton

    @Tom Kelsall

    Rubbish, on an unknown road, without looking at your speedo or GPS, or without active cruise control, I can pretty much guarantee that you cannot stick 100% to 50mph - gradients, winds etc. all change the speed you are doing with the same amount of throttle applied.

    FFS uk.gov, give us more traffpol.

    Paris - because even she could work it out.

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  3. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    @By Me

    I'd agree - far too many cars on the road, and the vast majority having far less qualifications and experience than most truck drivers. It's not the trucks causing accidents - it's the cars. Especially the 70-in-the-middle-lane ones.

    Having said that, your picture does highlight a complete lack of motorbikes on the road.

    That's probably because we've already arrived at where we were going, unencumbered by traffic or average speed cameras. And here in Scotland outside the central belt or M74 you can remove the traffic too.

    Average cameras *do* involve zombie-like speedo watching when your bike has 170bhp - blink and you're doing 70mph not 50. Or god forbid - 40. 40mph is barely on the speedo on a bike that does 100mph in 1st - it's like trying drive a car at less than 15mph in 2nd gear for minutes on end. You M25'ers/Londoners are probably experts, having said that.

    Average cameras are evil - especially 'cos here in East Scotland, I've yet to see what they're actually for, apart from revenue generation (ie no road works in months to protect, no history of jams or accidents, no hazardous road layouts etc).

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  4. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    @ DR

    "just drive say a few miles an hour slower [than the limit], it won't massivly affect your journey time"

    200 miles at 60mph average = 3:20, 200 miles at 90mph average = 2:15 ish, saving more than an hour. Well worth putting your foot down. Cars are very much better than when the 70 mph limit came in - 70 mph in a Morris Minor and 70 mph in a modern car are very different things. Average speed cameras will mean much longer journey times.

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  5. Hugh Fiske
    Paris Hilton

    @ By Name

    "When travelling at a safe speed there is no need to look where you are going....."

    wtf?

    Paris says wtf too but she means where not what...

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  6. Anonymous Coward
    Joke

    Average speeds = more dangerous

    ...but not for the reasons your thinking.

    A normal trip for most of us involves:

    1. Get in car

    2. blat down motorway at 80mph for 2hrs

    3. stop for fuel, calls of nature, a coffee etc etc

    4. Return to step 2 and repeat until destination reached

    An "averaged" trip will involve:

    1. Get in car

    2. chug down motorway at 50mph for what feels like all eternity, slowly losing the will to live 1 mile at a time.

    3. do not pull over or you'll never get there

    4. no, really don't - just keep going; you don't have time now.

    5. stop crossing your legs, stop blinking and stay awake. You don't need anything to drink either

    6. Really, I mean it

    7. What do you mean you fell asleep, crashed and your kidneys have exploded??

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  7. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    @nickj and the AC above

    A modern car can be any car from the last 15 years realistically, and a lot of them do NOT handle well over 70mph. I learned how to drive in a Corsa without power steering and that's only 9 years ago. At 70 the car felt unstable, you could feel everything through the steering wheel (and yes it was roadworthy). You have to apply the law to every possible vehicle on the road, because if you don't, some idiot in a ten year old Corsa is going to spin off because it won't handle 90 well enough.

    The only reason that average speed cameras will mean much longer journey times is because you are breaking the law in the first place. Just because you can get away with it now is absolutely no argument against average speed cameras.

    Of course, you also spectacularly missed the point of what DR was saying anyway. He was referring to people being unable to keep at 50mph, and was, quite obviously, suggesting sticking to something like 45. Even if you go over 45 you've got enough leeway to catch it before you break the limit, and even if you go over for a bit you've got that safety net of doing 5mph under for the longer period of time. Ie you have a 10mph safety net. The journey time is negligible.

    @AC

    Why do you need a 170bhp bike for road use????

    It's not the responsibility of the police to explain to you how to keep within the speed limit, purely to enforce it, and if you decide to get a vehicle that is difficult to keep within the speed limit, it's your fault if you get fined. No-one else's. The only difference is that if you get fined, or you accumulate enough points and lose your license, it should stop you from hurting someone else.

    As far as vehicle tracking goes, from what I've seen ANPR is used enough to track you already.

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  8. Red Bren
    Coat

    @me

    "Let's just ban all cars from motorways and return the UK motorway network to its original intended purpose. The quick and efficient transport of freight."

    Erm, wasn't that the purpose of the railways? Should road freight only be necessary for local distribution?

    <flamebait>

    Ban all vehicles with more than 2 wheels from motorways and return the network to it's original purpose - a racetrack for motorbikes!

    </flamebait>

    Mine's the reinforced kevlar one.

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  9. Andy

    @Mat Stace

    try 'idiot tax'

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  10. Red Bren
    Stop

    @AC - RE: Average speeds = more dangerous

    Your "normal" trip appears a little simplistic and has missed out some fundamental elements -

    1. Pack family into car. Repeat step one while various children remember vital things like shoes or teddy bears and a final toilet stop.

    2. Queue for 40 minutes to get onto the motorway because every man and his wife has decided that a bank holiday weekend is just the time to go for a drive, selfishly depriving you of empty roads for your bank holiday break.

    3. Get in the fast lane and do 90mph or you're never going to get to the ferry terminal in the time you allocated by travelling at 80mph. Maintain for 30 minutes

    4. Crawl along at 5mph for an hour through the contraflow that the Department of Transport have helpfully set up because bank holidays are the best time to do roadworks as it doesn't stop the proles from going to work to earn taxes.

    5. Threaten violence against the creatures you spawned if they don't stop bickering in the back seat.

    6. Get in the fast lane and get the ton-up as you're falling further and further behind an already impossible schedule. Maintain for 10 minutes.

    7. Slow to 40mph because some moron driving a mini while towing a caravan is trying to overtake an articulated 32-wheeler.

    8. The offspring of satan are now demanding a toilet stop at the earliest opportunity, pull into the next service station and threaten that if they're not back in 5 minutes, you're leaving without them.

    9. Get back in the fast lane and push te rev counter right into the red zone. Maintain for 5 minutes.

    10. Slow to 30mph because the moron in the mini/caravan has miraculously got ahead of you while you were at the services and is now trying to overtake another lorry, this time on an uphill.

    11. Exit motorway and join 5 mile queue of traffic through Holyhead

    12. Lose all ability to read road signs. Hurl abuse at your children for being a distraction and your wife for being unable to read a 20 year old AA roadmap that doesn't show the town's new one-way system.

    13. Arrive at the port to watch the ferry's bow doors closing as it departs without you.

    14. Divorce your wife, disown your kids, wait 12 hours to see if there's space on the next ferry.

    That was an extract from "Summer Holiday with the Brens"

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  11. Paul

    My favourite (only) overtaking lorries story

    About 2:30pm on a Friday, A34 just south of Oxford.

    I'm doing 60 with all the good cars haring past in the outside lane, I overtake 2 wagons, the rear one pulling out as I pass him. After about 5 minutes its all gone spookily quiet and I have at least a mile of dual carriageway to my self. Everything in front of me had vanished and I could just see the two wagons still trying to out-drag each other in my mirrors. Oh happy days.

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