Let's add filtered acces to everyone's home while we're at it...

Perhaps the RIAA thinks they have the right to see how many people are concurrently listening to my tunes. They can add videos and mics to everyone's home just incase one of us dares to host an impromptu party. They'll also want only RFID tagged guests to visit the party just so they can charge their pound of flesh for everyone listening.

If you are walking within hearing distance, you'll automatically get billed too...

BATHTAARDOS!

They do know DRM doesn't work

Because what if we (the nefarious pirate. Yarr!) put DRM on it so the RIAA cannot take a copy and look to see if it's theirs and illegal, they seem to understand that it must be converted to unencrypted and they can take a copy then.

They just need that little but more push to realise that when THEY put DRM on their music, it must be converted to unencrypted and we (the nefarious pirate. Yarr!) can take a copy then.

*nearly* there.

Paris would have gotten it by now.

erm

So to enforce this the modem would somehow detect that the spyware is installed on the machine before it can download?

so would a router connected to the cable need to have this spyware installed to be able to download, or is it every computer attached to the router or every computer attached to every computer attached to the router.

Unless you change the way TCP/IP works this really isn't going to be workable.

(not that i really thought any hot air by the RIAA will ever actually work, just annoy).

The music industry is basically a large distribution network where everyone along the chain takes a cut. Unfortunately the internet has made distribution free. bye bye.

Crackers

This guy clearly doesn't actually understand how a computer or the internet works, let alone specifics of how the many thousands of devices out there work.

So he thinks we can install software on our modems. Good luck with that.

And if that won't work, we install it on individual PCs... Except how does NAT fit in?

And if we choose to run something other than Windows Vista (and perhaps XP)? Is he going to supply the source for this software so that I can run it on Linux or FreeBSD running on a PowerPC or SPARC box?

Overall, it sounds like a badly thought idea from a non-technical person who assumes everyone with a computer is a pirate.

I think that this is a good idea

I think this technology should be spread widely. As soon as possible. With the RIAA logo on it.

Why? Because it's only once this sort of crap ends up on the computers of millions of people, interfering and generally breaking stuff, that the RIAA will finally gets its arse Class Actioned into the Stone Age.

Really, stuff like this is simply the myopic fools digging their own graves. Don't take their spades away! Better to give them a big JCB so they can get the job done quicker!

Stop buying their products now!

And stop this pointless Windows vs. Linux shit...

When the RIAA came for the Windows users,

I remained silent;

I was not a Windows user.

When the RIAA came for the Mac users,

I remained silent;

I was not a Mac user.

When they came for the Linux users,

there was no one left to speak out.

What next?

Western civilization is goint to sh!t. What next? English league football games played in America and Australia? Or religious nut-job laws incorporated into secular society?

Oh... hang on...

That's it. I'm moving to Jupiter.

Recording Industry Ass of America

Firstly anything that RIAA does that affects anyone outside America diserves prosecution anyway.

Secondly, I don't pirate, I buy legit physical CDs and make perfect rips to store on my server and use on MP3 players. End result is much superior quality to the pathetic downloads on offer anyway and less hassle than carrying piles of CDs around.

If their "filters" in any way prevent me from doing that I will get medieval on their asses. I'm not a music thief, and if they infect my PC, they get sued.

Have they not learnt from Sony's rootkit mistake? !

Missing the point

Whilst the RIAA would like to protect content already in the wild, what they are actually trying to do is protect their future, one brick at a time. This is only one of a number of steps which, individually, they could get through, but as a whole will seriously impact how future media is used.

In order to get this through, they would need a digital watermark for the media that says 'this is copyright material'. Once this was in place, and they get agreement with producers of the media players, they could get a 'you must have a license before playing this copyright material'. If you did not have it, you could not play it. So the next step is that instead of a watermark, the copyright material is encrypted, and you need the license to decrypt it.

At this point, the free software movement is screwed. Without access to the decryption method, they suddenly cannot access the media. They will not get access to the licenses, because this will be (is) proprietry information which itself needs licencing, and the license holder can decide to withhold this on cost or any other grounds they want.

Ok , says the free software movement, we'll attack the encryption. Not only is this illegal under DMCA in countries that have that and similar laws (why do you think that the US government tried to persuade other countries to implement similar laws), but is is MUCH more difficult than the pathetic CSS system that was used for DVDs. Current bleading edge asymmetric certificate based encryption is waaaaay beyond the abillity of even the most dedicated hacker. Why do you think that the French government ban it. It is because THEY cannot break it.

Hey, you say. We'll extract the raw audio at the device stream level. No you won't. With TPC or Palladium (or whatever it is called at the moment), the trust extends down to the hardware level, and data passing between media devices is either encrypted with keys securly held in the Fritz chip, or uninterceptable because of hardware design. And the fritz chip will not release the keys to a non-trusted OS! We are now back to analog extraction and re-encoding. And even here, there is possible inaudible watermarking to allow the RIAA to identify the source of the media.

This is the future, one bit-at-a-time. And there is almost nothing anybody induvidually can do about it. Prepare to start paying through the nose for ALL your entertainment. Much of the infrastructure for this is ALREADY in place in Vista and Mac-OS. Please, lobby your MP NOW to educate the people who rule us!

"The guy is a prick "

As is the anonymous coward who shouts his mouth off for no frigging reason.

Have a MS wank on your own time.

Jeez, and here El Reg says "if your comment is acceptable, it'll be posted".

People are uneducated and not disposed to learn.

The vast majority of them will just accept it, because they are told it is necessary by someone in a position of apparant responsibillity. We (the commentors of El. Reg.) do not represent the majority of the uninformed sheep that make up the voting public, and thus are the tail trying to wag the dog, and even we argue about such things!

Paris, because she represents the dumb masses.

To all the Linux haters...

The Linux commentors aren't really starting a "Linux is so much greater" thread for this article, they're simply saying that Linux is about freedom and such a thing as hinted at by the RIAA could never become possible with it, but with MS and Apple it's a real possibility as each is one major company that can be forced into putting stuff in their software.

Remember Windows' back door in the update manager? Most people wouldn't even realize something was installed.

@Crackers

Clearly, the guy is crackers....

>So he thinks we can install software on our modems. Good luck with that.

Historically, by then end of the "modem" era, most modems were either software modems or microcontrollers with flashable firmware.

I would guess that ADSL modems are similar, my router is certainly flashable..

All in all I'd really like to see a significant effort developing this, perhaps the RIAA should commit it's entire budget to what is obviously the ideal solution to the problem. I have no idea how such a system could possibly work, but I do think that's where the pieces of eight should be going... arrrrrr...

All it needs is a name... Wildgoose? RedHerring? "The Turkey"?

Oh god.

It's the TCB all over again.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trusted_computing_base

Didn't they watch 2001 A Space Odyssey?!

Missing the point - we can make money from the RIAA

The RIAA wants to run software on systems I own they are welcome to do so provided they pay me for the cycles that the software uses. My current rate for RIAA is $1,000,000.00 per OP. Installing the software is considered a binding contract for RIAA to pay this fee. If they refuse I will sue them for stealing my processor time. (theft is theft)

I can just hear the RIAA's deny-everything defence...

...but m'lud, it's not a feature, it's a bug!

Linux?

Will Linux play HDCP protected Blu-ray/HD-DVD content on an HD screen?

If it does then you have the same problems as all Windows users and really have nothing to crow about.

If it does not, then what use is Linux when you need a Windows PC to watch your Films?

@"Never gonna happen"

<People are using more and more encryption and soon all P2P traffic will be encrypted making filtering impossible> quote

As far as i'm comcerned, even if they were successful, and all online piracy was wiped out, what's to stop someone sticking around 9000 songs on a blu-ray disc burned under linux down to the pub and sharing it with their mates???

They could use the business since the smoking ban .. (forget wifi, get ethernet)

( What?? Sony makes blu-ray discs??? oh, the irony!!!!!!)

Roll on the floor laughing my bollocks off.....

one thing that is guaranteed to brighten up my day is hearing the desperate protests and screaming of the RIAA/MPAA. The more desperate they get the more outlandish, impractical and entertaining their ideas get. Although personally, I think they peaked when they started suing pensioners and school girls for file sharing this latest bright idea is probably in the top five.

@Linux?

"you need a Windows PC to watch your Films?"

Huh? I watch films on a strange object called a Telly. I plug my DVD player into it to watch DVDs. Bizarro eh?

ObTopical: The RIAA are doing the classic: pitch in with an outrageous opening bid then concede some changes and everyone thinks you're being reasonable - even tho your revised idea is still outrageous.

Contacting Online Store...

If someone could tell me how to get rid of this annoying 5-second splash-screen in Windows Media Player every time I double-click an MP3 file, I'd be greatly obliged. I once made the mistake of buying an album online (I think it might have been Tesco) and now I appear to be locked into always checking online stores for good!

Computer Misuse Act

Unless I'm very much mistaken, installing such malware in the UK would leave them open to prosecution under the Computer Misuse Act (1990), viz (to quote the Act):

A person is guilty of an offence if—

(a) he causes a computer to perform any function with intent to secure access to any program or data held in any computer;

(b) the access he intends to secure is unauthorised; and

(c) he knows at the time when he causes the computer to perform the function that that is the case.

(2) The intent a person has to have to commit an offence under this section need not be directed at—

(a) any particular program or data;

(b) a program or data of any particular kind; or

(c) a program or data held in any particular computer.

(3) A person guilty of an offence under this section shall be liable on summary conviction to imprisonment for a term not exceeding six months or to a fine not exceeding level 5 on the standard scale or to both.

@Ash / AC / Linux v MSFT crew

Ash

"You won't be asked for permission. You won't even notice."

Oh, I'll notice all right. What with things being the way they are, and with a bit of hacker/cracker background in my dim and distant youth, I keep a fairly close eye on what's going in and out of my network and on what's running on my box.

Anything that I don;t recognise or expect gets analysed and traced.

And when that happens, I'll fire up the suite of hard core reverse engineering tools that still live in my taskbar, dust off my rusty1337 h4x0r skillz, and insert a fair sized gobbet of natural justice up the RIAAs digital rectum.

Install stuff on my router ? IDA Pro has a nice ARM disassembly mode.

And I won't be alone. There will be more and far better than me gleefully attaching their JTAG cables to their shiny new kit.

AC :

"And the fritz chip will not release the keys to a non-trusted OS!"

How about to a trusted OS running inside a VM running inside a debugger ?

I haven't tried this, so I couldn't comment.

"there is possible inaudible watermarking"

Inaudible != invisible to analysis though, and lets say they stego a per song key into the LSBs of the stream, fucking with those bits will also change the key. Maybe enough, maybe not.

And that's just off the top of my head. There are plenty of folks who will throw these and other, far more sophisticated ides at the problem until it breaks.

To quote the always interesting Bruce Schneier "if you think technology can solve your security problems, then you don't understand the problems and you don't understand the technology."

As for the DMCA, pshaw. If you think making something illegal is enough to prevent people from doing it, you should definitely get out more.

Linux v MSFT :

<snip stereotyped blah>

Just stop it, really.

@Shakje

And when AO has spoken, no one has the right to reply...

OS wars?

The only clear issue here is that the RI Ass. of A consists of a bunch of idiots bent on legitimising spyware for their own purposes.

As a Windows, Linux, Unix, RISC OS and (very occasionally) RSTS/E user, my beef is with the RI Ass. of A, not with any specific OS. I have enough and completely different cows with the systems.

Hasn't this already been done?

Hasn't this already been done?

And isn't it called Vista?

And isn't that why MS is losing the war?

Isn't that why all the secure hardware initiatives have failed over the years, spyware in hard drive firmware etc?

Wow, check out Cary Sherman over there.. in the 20th century. is he wearing a Frankie Goes to Hollywood shirt?

I have a plan....

....so every time I want to get someone in trouble, I encrypt (or get an encrypted mp3) and send it to an unsuspecting person, who then has the unfortunate luck of unencrypting it.

And due to how instant this software claims to be, there'll be sirens at their door in no time...

Mine's the one with the mp3 playing taser in the pocket...

Oh Heavens above

So in order to check for DRM content you're going to need a) tagged media or an effing huge DB to cross-check and compare the media being tracked.

Do something now, before it's too late.

Try some new music genre, you never know you might get to like something new. I got big into Metal, lots and lots of smaller labels within a niche market. The majors aren't interested unless they can flog 6 million copies of their overatted tat to bored housewives and 9 year-old girls, so don't buy their crap. Buy in the indie niche markets, catering to your favourite genre. Get out to the clubs or get on the websites and give the money direct to the artists who deserve it.

Get on another open O/S Linux, BSD, etc. At least you have control or what, where and how and a fair chance of someone caring enough to break the scheme and get a FOSS option into the market, DVD-John, fair-play, etc

Don't say Intel and AMD won't change the chips, given the fact that the average computer user in this day and age, is a brain-rotting liability to the rest of us, downloading spam, trojans and virus/virii ( never understood which word we're supposed to use ), Intel and AMD will follow the money. The tech-savvy who understand the risks of this stupid idea are in the minority. 20 years ago, no one wanted a computer, these days, who doesn't have one, the casual users are driving the market, it's no longer the techies. The chav-fam down at PC world on a Saturday, are the ones who will let this happen whether techies react or not. Educate people now, before it's too late.

KGB mentality

GOOD GRIEF!! I thought that this kind of mentality was paar for the course in nasty commie or nazi dictatorships not in the *cough* "free" western world. What's next a bunch of thugs showing up at your house at midnight to take you away for "questioning"? My grandparents moved to north america to get away from that cr*p.

Torn between the dead vulture and pirate icons.

@Eddie

'And isn't it called Vista?

And isn't that why MS is losing the war?'

Errr NO! As stated above OSX also has the capabilities built in for this. It is not a MS or OS exclusive issue ffs

@The Other Steve

Fritz knows about VMs, because the VM acts as a corrupting filter between the OS and the hardware. The OS needs the keys from Fritz, and Fritz will not trust the lowest level OS.

And I did not say it was undetectable. And it is possible to add analog wartermarks (low/high frequency signals that can be filtered, low level signals at start or end of tracks, hetrodyned signals on notes added to the music). These can even survive digitisation.

But do you know how much of the media you already have has identifiable marks? Have you looked? Chances are, if you know, you look. If you don't, you won't. Most audio and video tapes have had timing or duplication signals added to the front and back of the tapes (often heard on the audio tracks as a series of static pulses). These often include information about the machine that was used to duplicate the tape. Did you not know? Did you ever investigate?

Also, when the component gets added to your system in a "we need to upgrade the Genuine Windows Advantage", or even "we need to fix a critical flaw in the OS (it does not do what we want it to do)", would you notice?

Do you even do anything other than click "yes" when your firewall claims that some DLL is trying to access the net? If you do, then you have more time than I have!

Root Causes

The usenet newsgroup rec.music.classical.recordings at one time had a regular who insisted that the main interest of the bigwigs in the music industry was keeping the supply of cocaine flowing to their noses.

Insisted repeatedly, ad infinitum nauseamque.

You know what? He was right. The desperation of the RIAA too closely resembles that of addicts overdue for a fix; likewise, the ideas they come up with too closely resemble those of drug users whose thought processes have been addled by overindulgence in recreational pharmaceuticals.

As the communications director at my former employer used to insist, to understand most political posturing, you have to look at (1) vested interests and (2) consequences.

Vested interests: music bigwigs with big cocaine budgets and habits.

Consequences: threatened reductions to both the budget and the supplies underlying said habits.

Makes sense to me.

Paris, because that lovely, virginal young thing has certainly never sullied the purity of her essential bodily fluids with anything as crass as cocaine.

I can just see this happening....

...in China. I'm sure the government there would just love to install these high tech gadgets on all their state-run machines !!

Haven't you heard? AMERICA is the new CHINA!

Hahaha, the 'Land of the Free' could teach us chinese a few things about new-age oppression. The funny thing is that your corrupt politicians and corporations do worse things to their own people than our govournment and still try to take the moral high ground! The US dollar is becoming so worthless that it won't be too long before chinese companies are outsourcing to American sweatshops! You owe us so much money already that we practically own your country anyway!

Bwahahaha, got to love all your western propaganda though that always makes us out to be the evil ones! Watching arrogant America fall is going to be most entertaining!

@AC

"Fritz knows about VMs, because the VM acts as a corrupting filter between the OS and the hardware. The OS needs the keys from Fritz, and Fritz will not trust the lowest level OS."

OK, interesting, thanks. I'll have a read up on that if I remember.

"But do you know how much of the media you already have has identifiable marks?"

To a good approximation, yes, and the answer, of course, is most of it

"Have you looked?"

Oh yes.

"These often include information about the machine that was used to duplicate the tape. Did you not know? Did you ever investigate?"

Yes. That is I did know, and I have indeed investigated.

"Also, when the component gets added to your system in a "we need to upgrade the Genuine Windows Advantage", or even "we need to fix a critical flaw in the OS (it does not do what we want it to do)", would you notice?"

Perhaps not, although I do actually vet the updates and read all the KB articles before even downloading them (where possible obviously, q.v. recent stealth installs). I would, however expect to notice any unusual network activity, as previously stated. My IDS flags anything that I haven't designated as known traffic, and I regularly review the logs and less regularly run eyeball audits on traffic with various monitoring tools to see if I'm missing anything.

"Do you even do anything other than click "yes" when your firewall claims that some DLL is trying to access the net? If you do, then you have more time than I have!"

Erm yes, otherwise what would be the point of having the software at all ? Given that I have a POC around here somewhere from years ago that injects code into running processes, I'd be a fool not to.

And yes, I probably do have more time than you, time enough to have written several experimental compilers, some rather nice spectral analysis software, real time video analysis programs, several protocol fuzzers and a variety of custom network security tools to pick just a few of the less mundane 'hobby' projects from the last 18 months or so.

And I consider myself to be at the low end of the skills range that exists in the general population of coders/hackers/tinkerers/homebrewers or whatever we're calling them this week.

I'll forgive you for assuming that I'm just a mouthy script kiddie though, since there are so many of them, and you don't know me.

Mines the one with volume 1 of Knuth in the left hand pocket, and Applied Cryptography in the other, thanks.

Title? We don't need no stinking title

@AC1 I didn't say MS was exclusive, I only said its already been attempted and refused by consumers, both at the OS level and at the component level in a proposed IDE HD spec. OSX matters forkall in the bigger picture anyhoo.

@AC2: "Do you even do anything other than click "yes" when your firewall claims that some DLL is trying to access the net? If you do, then you have more time than I have!"

You may as well not have a firewall then. The correct answer is to always say no if you don't recognize the source/sender. Only if something you actually want to do fails do you then close the program, do it again, and this time allow it. I'm assuming you know that but claim you don't have the time. Apparently you do have the numerous hours it take to clean your system after the fact though. Just remember the old oz/protection/pound/cure thingy.

How...

Does this guy think that this would be in any way acceptable. Now would be a good time for the drugs squad to raid their offices as they must be smoking some real good stuff.