back to article Critics split over DDoS attacks on Scientology

Websites associated with the Church of Scientology are intermittently unavailable today after an internet activists group calling itself Anonymous declared war on the controversial organisation. In a statement posted via video on YouTube and through various internet sites, Anonymous claimed its actions were designed to …

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  1. Rob
    Paris Hilton

    B rate sci-fi author

    LRH may have been a bit B rate, but he was still pretty good on occasion, and I seem to recall reading somewhere that he not only had a good sense of humour, but originally set up CoS as a bit of a joke.

    With a sci-fi writers long term vision, i was thinking how much more interesting it would be if he did it all deliberately to destroy organised religion, as other posters have pointed out, the difference between one fictional entity and another may be hard to define, so if he made CoS obnoxious enough to to come to official attention, under the right circumstances it just might be enough to bring it all down..

    unlikely i know, but it's friday afternoon and i like to day dream the world isn't all bad.

    I choose Paris, because she'd never get the joke

  2. tom
    Alien

    church, cult, whatever.

    a) Church? Cult? In the case of Scient*l*gy, it's moot. Pretty much no government will recognize them as a religion of any kind.

    b) Obviously, it would be the Church of the Cult of Scientology. Duh.

    c) Because all the world's ills are caused by alien ghosts, it is appropriate to use the alien icon in any comment related to CoCoS.

  3. Anonymous Coward
    Alien

    Freedom of Speech will die

    ...with the actions of the 4Chans and 7Chans. My Freedom of Speech will be gone and yours as well because a sick group of brainless idiots thought it is a good idea to censor the web. Anons, you suck

  4. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    @Sean Ellis

    That's why newfags are deployed.

  5. Andy Barber
    Happy

    Jonior School

    When I was FIVE years old, (living in East Grinstead, Sussex, UK; the home of Scientology in the UK,) I was told by a class mate that L R Hubbard WAS a GOD! Thankfully that idiot has prevented me becoming religious since then!

  6. Anonymous Coward
    Flame

    GOOD FOR THEM

    scientology is a crock 'o shite [did i spell that right?]

    see xenu.net for the real story about scientology.

    it ain't called operation clambake for nothing.

    gee did i click that anonymous box?

  7. Anonymous Coward
    Coat

    Re Rules 1 & 2

    Rule #1: Spammers lie.

    Rule #2: If a spammer seems to be telling the truth, see Rule #1.

    I'm sorry, I just don't see the relevance.

    ;-)

    Ah, my coat. Yes, it's that one over there, the one I don't talk about.

  8. Anonymous Coward
    Alien

    Ron Hubbard = alt.schmuck.follower.dead.bad.sci-fi.writer

    historically . . . . . .

  9. Lu
    Thumb Down

    You bought their propaganda

    The attack was called out even before the Tom Cruise clip was even posted on the net. So the whole justification rah-rah of those "Anonymous"

  10. Mike Morgan
    Happy

    You forgot

    Anonymous Coward you forgot to add to your statment " Considering the church was created by a B grade Sci-Fi author" you forgot looking for a tax dodge.

  11. Anonymous Coward
    Paris Hilton

    I am anonymous too!

    You know the odds are that anonymous is just a 15 year old pimply hacker.

    Or Andrew Morton.

    I have to agree with Andreas though about taking the Voltarian stance on this.

    It is something that americans arent familiar with because we censor debates on topics.

    There is no discussion about gays because you are not allowing debating. You have to accept and if you dont: you are labeled a homophobe.

    Same thing with Israel, there is never any debate. Just the idea of debating is cause to be called an anti-semite (never mind that the term is idiotic to anyone who knows what a semite is)

    I have to pimp Andreas though (www.xenu.net), his work is tremendous and he does this under duress. The cult is vindictive, dangerous and extremely abusive and are masters of harrasment, intimidation and psychological warfare (just look at the BBC reporter who lost it when confronted by the cult members).

    Utmost respect for the work he does and for his principles.

    anonymous

  12. Terryeo

    Large Internet, small theater

    The internet is large, that is to say, the theater is not crowded. You would have to actually GO TO an internet site to read Scientology. You would have to actually WALK INTO a Church of Scientology to take a course. You would have to actually PICK UP a Scientology book (among 1000s of books) at a public library. The argument that other people's opinions should not be expressed because you disagree with them, stinks. My take off on this issue? Beatty has joined with selected psychiatrists, psychiatry is defending itself in the only way it has ever had real effect. Behind the scenes, underhanded, utilizing the knife, long held behind the back.

  13. J
    Alien

    Because?

    "Why the CoS hasn't been branded as a "terror group" or simply outlawed as a crime syndicate by now is beyond me."

    Simple: because it's called a religion and people stupidly think that "religions ought to be respected". So politicians don't want to be seen disrespecting anything remotely associated with religions, cults, whatever.

    Give Scientology another, say, 100 years or so and they will be something like the Mormons. Who knows, Cruise's great-great-grandson (or daughter) might even be running for President of the USA by then...

  14. Anonymous Coward
    Alien

    It's all about the lulz

    Anonymous pick their targets at random, this was just something that was in the news and was decided that it would make a good hate campaign.

    True anons don't care that L Ron Hubbard was the world's biggest troll, they don't care about all the people who have had their lives ruined or ended, they don't care about the attacks on freedom of speech or Scientology's lawyers suppressing the internet.

    Hal turner thought it was about race, Scientology think its about religion, The RIAA think its about piracy.

    They are all wrong. It's only about the lulz

  15. Jesse
    Alert

    @ Teecee

    There's only one problem with that:

    "Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups."

    http://despair.com/idiocy.html

  16. Jesse
    Joke

    Re: If you live by the sword

    Don't run with it. That's dangerous.

  17. Anonymous Coward
    Paris Hilton

    Lizard Lulz

    BTW Is paris a scientologist? cuz she looks a bit like a lizard.

  18. GrahamT
    Coat

    @Because?

    "...people stupidly think that "religions ought to be respected". So politicians don't want to be seen disrespecting anything remotely associated with religions, cults, whatever."

    And how does that work with with Islam? A large, ancient, organised religion that has its branches growing from the same roots as Judaism and Christianity.

    Oh.. you mean *American* religions!

  19. Nexox Enigma

    What I love about Scientologists...

    ...is that they essentially take everything and anything that Hubbard ever said or wrote and merge that into their system of beliefs. He once got sidetracked during a lecture or speech or something of that type, and he managed to get onto the topic of Calculus.

    He doesn't like calculus, apparently because he opened a book and didn't immediately understand what dx and the big S (integral sign, I'd imagine) meant, so the whole concept must be worthless. He went on to describe what we need, which is apparently a simple math of rates (That would be impossible, Calculus is complex because it has to be...)

    So those 'Scientologists' now do not believe in calculus. I don't know how far through a given day you can get without running into something with calculus involved. More or less anything that's been engineered since forever ago probably had some calc in it's design somewhere. Or was made with tools that were designed with calc.

    Maybe they just don't believe in actually doing calc themselves. I just don't get how someone might manage to avoid believing in a human-invented system of math. Its like not being too sure that hexadecimal exists.

    Note: This is according to a pamplet that they gave me (While I was asleep... who comes to the door early on a weekend?) and backed up by various Internet 'information.' So it could be totally wrong. But it seems right enough.

  20. Anonymous Coward
    Stop

    "religions ought to be respected"

    No, not really, they are all cults. If you are going to fall for one, then that is your own dumb fault. If you pick one that you have to sign your house over to, then you are really dumb, but still probably not as dumb as if you join one where you have to have cosmetic surgery on your penis.

  21. This post has been deleted by its author

  22. Anonymous Coward
    Black Helicopters

    for great justice

    my previous comment didn't make it through moderation (due to being long and drawn out, I expect), and the related link (originally presented by El Reg) appears to have been taken off the web...

    Rather than try to reiterate what I previously tried to post I'd just like to say: @MichaelG... It may have happened already; check the Swedish site....

  23. Anonymous Coward
    Alert

    a pay as you go religion is not a religion.

    @MichaelG - "Granted the 'legion' may not actually be able to do much because they are only attacking on online presence with a DoS attack, and not for example, hacking in and spreading about all of their secret information all over social sites and the rest of the internet."

    Apparently at least one of them has done just that (hacking some secret info)

    Not posting any links obviously but it was accessible from digging around at (at least one of) the links provided by El Reg. Apparently torrents are available, documents that the Cult of Scientology usually sell for hundreds of dollars

    I was on the verge of agreeing with the good Mr Heldal-Lund, I have much respect for the man, and then I saw this:

    http://youtube.com/watch?v=pPol_m8wm8Y

    which is pretty tame, but reminded me how this dangerous cult messes with people's minds.

    After John Sweeney's unfortunate outburst (Panorama - Scientology and Me), postings appeared on the web alleging that these people have a big book of scripts which are designed to get journalists/critics to respond with irrationality or worse.

    Apparently their goading of him was "textbook".

    To those wondering what the fuss is about C.o.S., I have to say: is that what you want your religions to be doing?

    Also a google search for "Ken Ogger" pulls up some pretty disturbing results.

    "Black Dianetics, Black Scientology, reverse processing, or whatever one chooses to call it is essentially psychological warfare. Typical to Hubbard's style, GO and OSA used, and OSA continues to use, psyops designed to destroy their perceived opponents. "

    I have no sympathy for these people, and I've decided I concur with "anonymous"

    Any. Means. Necessary.

    (for great justice)

    oh and Terryeo, it's not the disagreement of opinions that's the problem, it's the manipulation of other people. If you've been misled into the opinions that you hold, that doesn't give you the right to mislead others.

    Hypnotism and cod NLP.

    L. Ron Hubbard.

    Look into it.

  24. Anonymous Coward
    Boffin

    All this $cientology talk reminds me...

    Most of you have probably never heard of the chaser here in Oz, but they were actively recruiting for the cult in a segment. I cannot help but share...

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eVx5pIi00Mo

    I agree with some previous posters, any rational person surely can see this mob for what they are! denial of service attacks means that people cannot view what they have to say and go.....HUH?

  25. Brett Leach

    @Rob Stupidity knows no boundaries.

    IIRC LRH originally created Scientology for the explicitly expressed purpose of transferring money from the pockets of credulous idiots to his own.

    Credulous idiots clambered over the top of each other to throw their money his way.

    @some others.

    The cult is highly adept at misusing the law to stifle free speech which is critical of them. As far as they are concerned there is not such animal of "Fair Use" when it comes to quoting their material, or even hotlinking to material they themselves publish. And so far they have generally managed to get the courts to agree. Thus they make it very difficult to put forward a rebuttal to their words/teachings that can be followed by Joe Pubic.

    I had one once try to play silly buggers (perception games) with me, with a kiwi fruit. Pity he only got damp trousers for his troubles. I was hoping for screams of agony.

  26. heystoopid
    Paris Hilton

    Hmmm

    Hmmm , does this explain the German Governments current refusal to let them register as a church and the heavy whack a mole style attitude coming from the US State Department to push for recognition regardless of the fact that it is an evil cult of cash sucking vampires as the Germans see it from afar !

    Should we not be more supportive of the German peoples representatives and thus start a precedent for the rest of the world one country a time to have them re classified as a non religious kooky fantasy cult !

    Minus any tax breaks the drain of normal business taxes will empty their coffers and war chests in double quick time thus starting the process of self implosion as the members drift away first in small numbers then an ever increasing tidal wave that will deplete their ranks !

    As with all kooky religious nuts and fruit loop fringe groups one can only eliminate all but the hard core minority 0.1% anyway for that is the nature of the beast total suppression will merely force it underground to fester and suppurate like incurable gangrene!

    As for religions being used for the justification of any war it is more likely the wowsers who stole raped and pillaged like a bunch of no good evil parasitical pirates seeking the local treasures , land and anything else they could steal or whatever their hearts desired at the time in later life seeking to atone for their evil bad deeds of infamy and wholesale murder , part with two centavos in the peso stolen to buy off the local church to become a saint to hide their sinning evil past from judgement day that comes to us all in the end or so we are brainwashed to think for as with all churches it is about worldly goods for they have to live too and life is not free as someone always has to pay for them !

    So instead of denial of service no matter how well intentioned it is one should seek alternative creative ways to expose these parasitic religious kook charlatans leaders for what they really are in real life although even when caught with the pants down and face in the feeding trough judging by the gullible wankers in many US Bible belt states they prey upon the people's mindset to seek forgiveness which unfortunately many do grant for they need a tiny sliver of something inconsequential and surreal to cling too as they have no other life outside the small communities they live in!

    So thus the tammy fae's and the jimmy swaggart 's conduct business as usual with their slick lies and extorting ways to empty their wallets and purses of everything so they can maintain their rank evil parasitic lifestyle like a bunch of evil vampires bleeding these communities dry in the very name of religion and false salvation !

    Truly they are worse then evil parasites indeed for they build cynical false mausoleums of hope filled with false images and gods and then prey upon the peoples need to belong as a community in a rapidly changing world and landscape that we live in !

  27. Anonymous Coward
    Flame

    objective achieved ? (Scientology under the microscope)

    Dunno.

    All religeon is evil anyway.

    Belief is no replacement for logic - the stronger the "belief" the more dangerous the crackpot.

  28. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    finally

    i'm all for this

    about time someone did something about these scientology ****s

    where do i sign up to join the Anonymous collective? can i donate to help the cause?

    will their DDoS software run under vista or do i need to wait for SP1?

    (there seem to be a lot more anonymous coward posts on this story than usual - are all worried there might be retribution from the scientologist to anyone who posts their approval? that said, they'll probably just subpoena El Reg's databases so they can work out the account of each posting)

  29. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Rew: Freedom of speach will die

    > ...with the actions of the 4Chans and 7Chans. My Freedom of Speech will be gone

    > and yours as well because a sick group of brainless idiots thought it is a good idea

    > to censor the web. Anons, you suck

    That's going to happen anyway in fact it already is. No matter what happens an excuse will be found to justify it. Once the infrastructure to "protect the children from pedophiles" is in place it will be turned and used against us all.

    Look at Every law in the UK with "Freedom" in it. They all take away more than they give. The Freedom of Information Act allows us access to minor stuff but creates watertight exceptions for things we need to know about. The Freedom of Speech provisions in the Human Rights Act basically say we can say or write what we want as long as the Government doesn't think it needs to be prevented for "public order" or "the prevention of crime." In other words we have the freedom to say whatever the Government thinks we should.

    Mr Brown, I want freedom, the most precious freedom to live my private life as I see fit without you meddling in it as long as I don't hurt anyone else.

  30. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    heh

    Honestly - it's best to just sit back, watch the comedy and prepare to view the epic newfag failure that will occur.

  31. Anonymous Coward
    Boffin

    @Terryeo

    You appear to be implying that because the internet is much bigger than the collection of libraries/websites/lectures/churches/pamphlets etc then people are more or less free to choose Scientology or keep away from it.

    You also appear to be saying that psychiatrists have an ulterior motive in their actions and that these may somehow be negative, possibly with connotations of violence.

    The thing is, few websites on the net have as much money pumped into their propaganda as a religious organisation with hundreds of millions of dollars of disposable income from the donations they receive.

    Even fewer of those religions actively seek out anybody or any site which derides them or counters them and then spits forth the amount of bile, venom and lawsuits or repetition of dogma that the few do.

    Even fewer of those religions actively purchase land all over the world and then try to push thier dogma on citizens walking down the street, even fewer than that have the money and the lawyers to oppress or get at people or even to influence governments.

    I disagree with all of these religions because (whilst I still have freedom of thought and movement to a large degree, subject to my own morals and so forth) - they are attempting to limit that freedom; no matter what their intentions behind that limiting of freedom might be.

    Lastly, to address your concerns re the psychiatrists.

    My own opinions are that psychiatrists are merely people who we pay to ask us questions in an orderly fashion so that we get the answer to the question we really wanted to ask ourselves and find out what our problem is.

    I have read somewhere that that is what Scientologists claim dianetics is.

    So how could that be bad?

  32. Anonymous Coward
    Boffin

    @Robert Belcher

    In short the answers to your questions are; allegedly yes (although not on the streets), allegedly yes (figuratively), not that I've heard of.

    Ok?

  33. Oliver Brown

    sage

    is it can be meme tiem nao ;_;

  34. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Re. a pay as you go religion is not a religion

    Too true, AC. I already have a free religion I don't use (CoE), why would I want to pay for one?

    Posted anonymously in case the Archbish of Canterbury reads El Reg.

  35. Anonymous Coward
    Thumb Up

    A worthwhile endeavour

    This is mostly "for the lulz", anyone expecting this powerful and wealthy cult to be taken down by Anonymous having a laugh in their spare time is (sadly) delusional. By the same token those claiming this is somehow depriving Co$, with their multi-million dollar propaganda machine and huge number of front organisations, of their free speech are simply wrong. However it *is* achieving a few worthy things :

    - Ensuring that the video of Cruise spouting batshit insane nonsense that Co$ tried to suppress is getting played again and again on mainstream news.

    - Spreading further the hilarious UFO-cult story of Xenu that Co$ would rather you didn't hear till you were sufficiently indoctrinated to believe it.

    - Making Co$ look very silly and pissing them off. They claim to have 8 million members, many of them with awesome mind powers over the very fabric of space and time, yet they can't keep some websites up against a rather amateurish DDoS? Lulz.

  36. Anonymous Coward
    Thumb Down

    To the people vaguely wondering why everyone thinks Scientology are dangerous...

    Just visit http://www.whyaretheydead.net/

    Also, @heystoopid, The CoS also tried to get tax-exempt charity status in the UK, but were rejected by the Charities Commission on the grounds that "they didn't benefit anyone in any way" (my wording, can't remember exactly)

    They are also responsible for apparently the largest infiltration of the US Government in history when they went to get tax-exempt in the US...

    http://www.clambake.org/archive/go/ops/go732/go732.htm

    They need taking down, you can't fault Anon for taking up a worthy target every now & then...

  37. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Anonymous, you have stolen my heart

    It started as a little infatuation. Then the Fox 11 video came out, and I developed a full-on crush.

    This, however? This is love.

    I love you, Anonymous. All of you faceless bastards.

  38. Anonymous Coward
    Coat

    Church of L. Ron

    I occurs to me that the Scientologists are pretty much everything their detractors say they are and just like every other established religion. Xenu, Jehovah, Ahura Mazda are all pretty much the same delusion aren't they.

    I'll get me coat.

  39. Anonymous Coward
    Alert

    Why are the

    "What the hell is it about Scientology that gets up everybody's nose? Are these fringers murdering people in the streets; stealing babies; putting saltpeter in our drinking water? Why do an equally silly bunch of fringers think they are a threat?

    I want answers now!" -Robert Belcher

    Ahh well now. It is my understanding that the cult (and I will call them a cult), use group pathology.

    Trying to convince sombody of somthing is very hard one on one. A group telling them its true is much more effective.

    Being part of a group or peers, and all coming to the same conclusion is even more powerful. In this way you can be manipulated, even normal sane people. Infact its your sanity that works against you.

    It is aledged that the aformentioned cult use this group theropy (the exact wording escapes me at the moment) to create a very strong opinion in the subjects. This is the same phonomonen that happended in the london bommings (all be it for a diffrent cult).

    How you do it?

    Get a group of people, let them all get to know each other, and start 'radicalising them'. The cult does this in a number of ways. Basicly you want the people to bond with each other as this increases the effect, and you want them to see each other as separate from 'everybody else'. This causes bonding, not unlike you see in solders, miners and other groups. It is this bond that is then welded like a weapon. The most effective way I belive is by using 'plants' in the group, preferabley persuavie and ' genuine'. Then of course you need somthing to keep your group togeather, so you now give them a common cause, and at the begining of course its simple things like coming to meetings, helping each other out and slowly you twist there views and change what is normal and true.

    By causing them to disaccosiate with there normal pals and famely there bond to the group becomes stronger. As you sever one connection the others become stronger untill the only connections the people have left are to the cult.

    Needless to say that is a rather rough way of saying it, however it is the most powerful force in phsycology, group therepy. And when used for good, for healing and other proccess (to deal with alchohulisim, drug addiction ect) it is a very positive force.

    I am going to stop now because its far to early in the morning, my spelling and english have suffered. I have been at group things before and at the time did some reading on it. However in my 5 second internet search I could not russle somthing up for you to read, so go find it your selfs.

    On a side note, the Ano thing, well I would not say its my chosen format of attack I would rather they were just outlawed.

    It does however at least more or less leave the poor smucks at the bottome of the cults heape out of the frakis more than more physical vandalisim and violence might of.

    Anyway I am off to read a link or two posted by ano cowerd above.

  40. Geert Jacob

    Church?????

    Church of Scientology???

    Never has the term church been more abused.

    Maybe next time the neighborhood brothel will call itself the 'church of sexual desire'.

    It's on the same level as the church once founded by Homer Simpson.

    G.

  41. Oldfogey

    Origin of Scientology

    Many years ago, before he died, (obviously), I was acquainted with James (Jim) Blish, a moderately well known SF author.

    When he was young, he lived in New York and mixed with a group of other SF writers - all of them broke, of course.

    One of these was L Ron Hubbard, who was thoroughly fed up with being broke, and took seriously one of those late-night-after-a-few-beers conversations, in which it was suggested, by Fred Pohl, if I remember correctly, that the best way to get rich quick was to found a religion.

    A lot of silly ideas were then thown around, as you do, and in due course Hubbard set up the miracle of double-talk and flim-flam that is Scientology.

    It's not even a cult, it's just a snake oil scam.

    Oh, and I have also heard that he did not actually write those Battlefield Earth books himself either.

  42. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    First FOX now el Reg?

    Hey look, 4chan made the news again.

    Wankers like the guy who posted the youtube video do NOT represent 4chan, or anonymous. They kinda ruin the whole point of being anonymous, putting a name and "cause" to it all. 4chan just likes causing trouble, there's no motives, and scientology is just another one of it's common victims.

    Hilarious that the media keeps up the drama though.

  43. Alex Witherspoon
    Coat

    OOOHHHHH......

    Anon, I wish to join you. HAIL ZENU. *sign of the cross*

    I'll get my cashmere sweater. The blue one.

  44. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    kewl

    What a really kewl video.. the synthetic voice (was that Microsoft Bob or Mike?)... the images.. the speech..

    Frankly, if I was in SEAORG, I would find this very scary...

    WE ARE ANONYMOUS

    WE ARE LEGION

    So kewl.. take the battle to those Scientology cooks! Awesome!!! I wanna join! I want to be legion! Where do I sign u... OE! A PORN LINK!

    <HTTP 404 - user not found>

  45. M Neligan

    @oldfogey

    I used to read - and enjoy - SF by James Blish and Frd Pohl. Not L. Ron's rubbish, though.

  46. Andy Worth

    C U * T.......

    No not that word you dirty boy, but the "cult" word. I'm about to don my flame retardent suit as I don't see it as any more of a cult than Christianity or Islam (plus others). Its most "dedicated" members will go to almost any length to stand up for their beliefs (which holy wars, terrorists and the like prove regularly about the mainstream religions). Its members "donate" money, which makes the church rich (back a few centuries ago, the church was the richest organisation in England).

    I don't actually think religion is a bad thing, for those who like to follow it, but religions and religious people in general are among those least able to accept criticism of their beliefs, and tend to unfortunately attract a lot of people who just need a justification for their violence.

    Personally I find the attraction of the Pastafarians much greater than that of Scientology.

    www.venganza.org

  47. heystoopid
    Alien

    Apparently in 1991

    Apparently in 1991 Time Magazine ran a feature story on this lunatic fringe cult and then spent the next ten years and a small fortune in legal fees fighting their frivolous legal actions in court before winning !

    This was lifted from a digg user submitted article link= http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,972865,00.html

    The cult was pure snake oil then and like the many headed hydra has gotten far worse as time goes on and has shifted a gear into one that is a pure bloodsucking parasitic vampires that will stop at nothing to relieve all worldly goods and assets it can get from the suckers dupes or any other victim they can snare and will resort to every known dirty trick in the book and then some to get their way in life !

    I'll let you decide as that is what true democracy is all about !

  48. Karl Lattimer

    Where do I sign up?

    I hear all the rhetoric about free speech and all, but seriously there is a limit, this is a money grabbing cult and I want to sign up to this campaign of destroying them

    /me tottles off to a payphone to harass scientologists.

  49. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Ah screw it...

    No one else is standing up to those nutters - chan folks might as well.

  50. MikeC
    Paris Hilton

    Newsgroup

    Sorry, i got stuck on the entire newsgroup for Usenet bit. Put it as an acronym and you get arse. Just what people make of themselves when joining. I remember when they had a bit tent up in Birmingham - you couldnt see in to see what they were doing in there, and everyone who came out looked a little groggy ;)

    Reason for Paris should be obvious!

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