back to article Cops admit CCTV no use in deterring drunken violence

Forests of CCTV cameras in the UK's town centres have failed to have any impact on anti-social behaviour, an ACPO official told the House of Lords Constitution Committee yesterday. Graeme Gerrard, head of CCTV at the Association of Chief Police Officers (ACPO), said cameras did a good job deterring crimes like theft, for …

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  1. D
    Thumb Up

    @lglethal

    "ship them to some remote uninhabited shetland/orkney island & make them fight it out ala Battle Royale, etc. Last man standing gets to return to the mainland."

    Alpha Chav would then return to his chav estate after seeing off all his local male rivals and would have a clear field to impregnate all the local chavettes. In just three or four generations we would have a new generation of super chav's selectively bred to provide maximum thrills CCTV drunken boxing entertainment on Friday and Saturday nights for the populace.

  2. Robert Harrison

    National service...

    Or some such (not that I'm that old) but something.. anything to teach these Saturday night muppets some respect for community, its people and property.

    Oh wait.. Community no longer exists.

    Not that there is an easy answer but perhaps we need to figure out why it is that our nation seems to have the dirtiest record of drunken violent benders (both at home and abroad) above other nations?

    @Of course if the 'Government' had everything their way...

    @Simon Goodwin re: CCTV in the home

    @Pubs - By Alan

    You three above scare me with the similarity of our trains of thought. You can bet that if some more MPs and their 'old boy' chums were resident anywhere near the bedlam that occurs in town centres, more would be done to resolve/understand the problem. As it is, when you live in a nice reserved large home in a quiet village, the problems of town centre, and surrounding, life seem so far away...

  3. andy gibson

    Maybe it would deter

    if once caught on CCTV and tracked down and arrested and given a substancial prison sentence rather than a caution or fine, they WOULD become a deterrent.

  4. Graham Bartlett

    @AC

    You've not been abroad much, have you? I'm not a massive traveller, but I've been on a fair few holidays abroad, generally avoiding the tourist traps, and spent a bit of time working in the States and Canada too. And I can report that not only do some younger people get just as wasted as over here, they're equally likely to do stupid stuff.

  5. Anonymous Coward
    Paris Hilton

    Throwing in 0.02c

    I agree with part of Adam Foxtons post above, getting rid of things that normal, everyday, non-chavbos might like to partake in, be it alco-pops or whatever, seems to punish the collective for the idiocy of the few.

    I like the idea of punishing the offender rather than the general public but these days, any kind of punishment to the offender themselves is akin to giving them one of those oversized baseball caps with the tags still on embroided with "Im da man!" or some such all over it.

    To that end, why not punish the offender and those closest to him? Maybe dock his parent/s wages or welfare cheques. Hell, why not dock their uncles/aunties wages as well. Cut off the heating in their council flat for a month or impound all their cars for xx months. These sorts of kids usually have fairly scary units for parents and relatives, who better than to dish out some "tough love" than a mum on the poverty border line who has just had her welfare docked thanks to her moron son getting another ASBO?

    Paris cos this is my first time "on camera" so to speak.

  6. Alex

    They may be too drunk to realise the consequences

    So make sure they know the consequences before getting drunk. If they know they are going to be severely punished they won't do the crime. Look how rare heckling at Labour party conferences or upsetting the Welsh on TV is becoming.

    AIUI you are more likely to be locked up for not paying your council tax than beating someone senseless. £150 fine for assualting a Police officer, thats hardly going to deter a drunken reveller make it a month's wages or Benefits.

    If you can't lock them up then get them up at 5 am to clean the puke from the streets or even better pop them in the cells for a night (you have to make sure they don't drown in their own vomit or die from their wounds) and after a cold shower in the morning give them overalls so they can do it with a hangover. They can go home in their disposable overalls so everyone can see they have slept it off in the cells. Obviously charge them for the overalls & accomodation, benefit witholding & credit cards accepted.

    If they don't turn up for cleaning duty pop round and arrest them at work, or stop their benefits.

    Make the Pubs responsible for behaviour and noise, shut a few vertical drinking establishments down to encourage the others, use CCTV evidence to prove drunken louts spent a considerable amount of time in a licensed premises and that they failed to monitor their clientele. Those old enough will remember the litter from fast food joints covering our streets, once the restaurants became liable the problem was severely reduced.

    Revoke approvals for any drinks clearly aimed at youngsters, whilst not every Lager lout is under 25 is a I'm guessing many are.

    Replace the CCTV cameras with high resolution versions, the technology is available to get high quality video down almost any cabled video system and it is relatively cheap. More successful prosecutions will reduce offences and save money. Video & Audio analysis would reduce the need for cameras to be watched, most trouble is normally accompanied by load shouting or laughter and a crowd just watch for peaks of noise. Add feedback to the cameras, e.g. a bright spotlight that shines on the offenders so they disperse, maybe the high frequency dispersal system as well.

    Zero tolerance works, if at the first sign of trouble a van load of cops turn up and make sure the offenders are prosecuted severely then word spreads. Then at least the offenders will take their punch ups & bad behaviour to deserted areas as we did when we were younger, many confrontations will dissipate before the protaganists get to a suitable venue.

  7. toby
    Thumb Down

    My opinion on this

    CCTV is a waste of money and electricity...and nobody likes being watched.

    The root of all evil is NOT alcohol...it is education.

    Even if all drinks were for free, only idiots would drink until they drop....so also cheap drinks are not the problem.

    The problem is the legal age of drinking - it should be lowered to 16 to achieve a responsible drinking behaviour.

    If the legal age is a lot higher then the real age, people learn to drink from youngesters the same age and not from their parents.

    The parents could teach their children how to drink reasonably....in France and Germany, there are not that many problems with alcohol as in the UK, although the legal age is 14 (wine etc in France) and 16 (beer) and there have never been any closing times.

    It is all about educating your children properly. This is the same with violence and aggressive behaviour.

    Instead of watching everyone, what about controlling whats on tv and on the cinemas a bit more? There are so many films and movies involving violence - and children will think it is cool to destroy things .......

  8. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Reality Check

    To all you who want to ban alco-pops.... I'm 38, and pretty much drink alco pops and nothing else. Never really liked the bitter taste of beers or lagers for my sweet tooth.... and, strangely, when passing the chavs in our area it's ALWAYS either cheap wine or cheap lager that they drink. Like any self-respecting hard kid would be seen with a WKD in their paws? Time to ban lager IMO. Although I can see your point. There were NEVER any fights before alcopops came along, and every thug in every bar has given up lager for them. Obviously.

    Oh, and despite there being numerous camera's covering our town, I'll be damned if I'll trust them to make me feel safer.....they don't.

    About time Pubs realised their responsibility in NOT serving someone who is already intoxicated - but that would hurt profits, wouldn't it? Can't be having that........

  9. Sam
    Coat

    Adjust the booze, not the cameras.

    Drunks in town centres will always cause trouble, so stop them getting so drunk.

    Instruct all town centre drinking establishments to water their drinks as the evening goes on.

    Once you get down to 1% alcohol content I defy any moron to get drunk enough to matter.

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