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back to article Europe too cynical for iPhone

iPhone sales around Europe have been disappointing, with the French only pocketing 30,000 in the first five days - though that's three times the number T-Mobile managed to shift in Germany. But that's not stopped Google releasing an optimised version of its mobile application suite specially designed for the finger-driven …

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Stop

Difference != Differential

"The free data and The Cloud access more than make up for the price differential"

Will people PLEASE stop misusing the word differential? Mathematicians doing calculus are allowed to have describe a differential - anyone else using the word to describe the DIFFERENCE between two things is not.

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@ John Bayly

Maybe i can't pick a hole in your stats, but i reckon i could pick a whole in your spelling....

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In reponse to Carniphage..

"And it clearly isn't."

Stock still being on shelves despite extensive hype and advertising suggests otherwise.

"It's obviously outselling the brick-like N95"

The N95, since it's launch earlier this year, has sold over 1 million phones. Based on what I have seen so far, it seems likely that the iPhone will fail to reach that in it's first year.

"It's reportedly out-browsing all the PocketPCs on the planet."

Erm, What exactly do you mean by that? Outbrowsing? Opera on most phones gives you the full web, and Opera Mini has the zoomed browsing. At full 3G speed and/or Wifi depending on the facilities you have available.

"And the fact that it is too expensive for chavs .... well there's another reason to have one."

They'll just mug the poor saps who buy one..

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a lot of folk are halfway through another contract

I'd like an iPhone - but I have 15 months left on my 18 month contract! By the time I have finished the contract, there will no doubt be a better 3g iPhone.

for now then, an iPod touch will do fine.

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Stop

@ Scaling

"How many iPhones were sold in Montana? Or Texas?"

No iPhones were sold in Montana. AT&T doesn't do business in Montana, so there are more than 900,000 folks who can't officially buy an iPhone.

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@Mike Crawshaw

"I get that over in the US, people jumped for joy at this, because of the low-tech cellphones they're used to. But here? In terms of functionality (leaving aside presentation), it's years out of date."

The only reason Americans are using low-tech phones is because they are low-brow. The Americans that bought the iPhone are just low-intelligence.

My HTC phone (Cingular 8125) Has 3x the features of the iPhone, and was half the price TWO years ago. It's a bit slow compared to today's phone, but plenty fast enough that I have no reason to upgrade until the newer HTC's come down in price. (And get rid of the proprietary USB port w/headphone jack garbage)

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Rob
Bronze badge
Go

@Macka

Welcome to the world of technology, it's obvious you have been behind the times for awhile, there have been phones able to all those things you mentioned way before the iPhone was released (at least a good year before).

So I think you have answered one of my questions which is the iPhone is obviously bringing a lot of possibilities to people that didn't think possible with a phone, it's just a shame it's on out of date technology.

But as you say hopefully Apple will update a lot of things, they are new to the phone business, so no doubt it will have been a steep learning curve (espcially the european market).

Just wait till you get GPS, Memory Cards, 3rd party apps and 3G, you'll have the dogs knackers of a phone (and maybe a tad smaller and cheaper and no lock-in would be nice as well... oh and maybe not taking a cut from the tariff as well which results in it being ranked up a few quid).

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'You don't bring coals to Newcastle'

What century do you live in?

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Bronze badge
Happy

I'd Love an iPhone...

...but I'm not shelling out £280 as well as signing up to a £35pcm contract. Great product, poor pricing strategy. Still, makes the iPhone that much more exclusive, I suppose. FWIW, I'm not in the least bit interested in the lack of 3G - 3G is an answer to a question nobody asked.

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Apple, after all...

...is the only company in the history of business to introduce a product so radical that distributors such as T-Mobile and Vodafone would go to court over the right to carry it.

Tim Beyers

The Motley Fool

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It's feature list is precisely correct for what it is:...

A US made phone for the US market.

Americans don't text nearly as much. Most don't see the point. They never had the 50p/min vs 10p/text that we had in the UK in the early 2000s. That drove most teens on tight budgets to texting. Didn't happen in the US.

Americans don't picture message. Only a small percentage of texters are likely to MMS, so it follows.

America does not use 3G. The US has bugger all 3G coverage and will have for the next few years.

Americans do mobile email. Blackberrys are waaay more common in the US, and have been for a long time.

Americans are used to expensive crap-long lock-in contracts. The iPhone deal isn't that bad over here, it's just the initial price which is higher than normal. Only having 2 GSM operators means that there's little competition. Remember what it was like with only Vodafone and Cellnet? Imagine if Orange hadn't come along and undercut them.

Combine that with the 5 month delay for the European release and it's clear that it wasn't really meant for Europeans.

Get a Touch and wait for the 3G version. Trust me, those who are still stuck in version 1 contracts when it comes out will be kicking themselves.

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Hey Stuart Castle....

Without concrete sales data - it's impossible to tell exactly. But it's funny that everyone is lining up in the "it's a flop / it's a runaway-success camps"

http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/07/12/06/report_iphone_outpacing_rivals_in_europe_without_3g.html

Checkout browser usage -

http://marketshare.hitslink.com/report.aspx?qprid=10

It's data of some sort. Decide how to interpret it in a way which best fits your world view.

My last phone had the same features as an iPhone. Email, Opera web browsing.

Trouble was, all these great features, were, y'know "Special Olympics" features.

3G - check

MMS - check

Make every website look like ass - check

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Pirate

Why I would never own an iphone

Jeremy Clarkson and Chris Moyles have both got one

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@ Carniphage

People would take you seriously if you could substantiate any of the crap you're talking. Of course we want it to fail, that's the only proper response to a ludicrously hyped-up load of bollocks that's being sold like it's the second coming. We're all tired of this nauseating hyperbole that simply shines a light on conspicuous consumption. I'd rather be a chav than a yuppie piece of shit.

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Alert

@ the Wikipedia generation

There are other information sources out there, don't you know? If you want reliable country data, I would recommend (and this is the only time I will ever praise the CIA) the CIA World Factbook:

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/index.html

Sheesh. Wikipedia, honestly...

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Hey Smell My Finger.

Sorry money is so tight for you man. Me, I just got me this wicked yuppie razor that costs more than me iPhone!

You'd never credit it, but some people actually spend more on watches than 260 quid! These watches don't have GPS or nuffink! Insane!

Think of all the Burberry you could buy with that! With 260 quid, you could probably afford a new fridge for the front garden.

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Dead Vulture

Dear Dumb

As one person pointed out SMS,MMS etc.. are all methods of communication you can rely on to be accessible from most phones

MMS probably goes back as far as the first phone with a colour screen so it's a very very safe bet (if not guaranteed) for sending pictures etc...

Email support is patchy and consequently rarely used. So yeah, Apple have dropped the ball if half decent support is not there for "established standards".

That aside, your questioning why someone would want to use "send to many" highlights how ridiculous you argument is. I send texts very infrequently but at least twice a year I “send to many”. Christmas and New year. The function makes sense and serves a purpose, even if it's used infrequently. If I sent a Christmas email only my corporate mates with their crackberries and the odd apple fanboi might pick it up.

So, if I might be bold enough to make an adjustment to one of your statements... ...I suggest you stick your head back in so no-one else has to smell your shite.

I guess I should also make a comment specific to the iPhone. statistics are well covered so I won't go there.

Played with one for a few minutes. Got bored. Looks nice but there's a limit to how excited I can about gimmicky apps. There's definitely a limit to how much I would pay for a phone with a fixed battery so I know I will never own one.

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re: Carniphage

um, have you ever thought that the "unlimited" data tarriff is the reason behind why more people are browsing on their iphone than someone on their extortionate vodafone phone?

don't confuse the effect of the device with the effect of the pricing - would you say that the early take up of net access in britain was speeded up by a move to 56k modems or by freeserve introducing a cheaper way of getting on the net?

Also, as others have pointed out the figures for "iphone net use eclipsing all other mobile browsing" includes those who use opera on symbian phones or is that all lumped into one block without making the mobile distinction? stats can be fiddled with especially when it isn't broken down and mined enough.

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WOW, you guys must be really scared of Apple. just wow.

I actually have to laugh when I read most of these posts. If you do not like a product, don't buy it. In fact, I have to wonder if most of these posts are Microsoft shills who get paid to trash Apple.

Apple developed a cell phone. It was different than other phones in that its the best "iPod ever" and it has wi-fi and it also has a cell phone. Period. Its not make to be the cheapest or most-difficult-to-use phone, just an easy to use phone with neat features. And it looks cool too. PERIOD.

It does not:

defy gravity,

change the time space continum,

come free,

Its not a movie cam corder,

Its not a transport device.

and it does not solve all your personal problems for $ 49.99, er $ 29.99, er for free.

Sorry. ITs just a phone,....... that is taking the smart phone world by storm. ONE day sales figures, or even one months figures???? Please, give me a break. Lets look at Blackberry phone sales in the first month that it came out.

This is the first phone ever from Apple. Most phone execs said that it would not even work. Well, I guess that they are wrong. :-) So, I am going to leave most of you to sulk to your hearts content. Just don't be surprised if you see Apple iPhones holding a10% to 25% share of the world smart phone market by the end of next year.

:-)

en

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nos

can you all please remember that the iphone has been selling in the US since July while it has only been selling since Nov in the UK, DE & FR (& France started later). So therefore, please remember that when making absolute comparisons with the US.

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Jobs Horns

@elder norm

Well, first of all people wouldn't be getting so exorcised about the iPhone if it hadn't been hailed as the most revolutionary thing in telecoms since the smoke signal, or if Apple hadn't applied their usual breathtaking arrogance towards non-US markets.

Fact is, its a nice UI in search of a decent phone. A year from now I'm pretty sure it will be on my shopping list, because Apple will have fixed its shortcomings (in order to compete) and it will be offered on competitive contracts. Will it have 10-25% of the World smart phone market in a year? I wouldn't bet against it; but not if they don't meet Europe (and Asia's) higher expectations.

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Hey Alphaaxion

So what you are saying is that perhaps the whole unlimited data thing means that folks are suddenly able to afford to use their mobile for browsing. It's just so darn sneaky of Apple. A cynical combination of a browser that does not suck alongside a feindish price plan where users and not charged by the kilobyte! No wonder people are using it like crazy.

These guys are just not playing by the rules.

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Anonymous Coward

Cool vs anti-cool

In the UK only fanboys, journalists and media studies graduates think that iPhones are anything other than the tech equivalent of a Gucci handbag. Yes, they are well made, yes they look cool... but unless you have money to burn they are very poor value for money because the only things you really need an iPhone for (listening to music, making phone calls, surfing the web) most of us can already do almost as well, if not better, with what we already own. If I had no MP3 player, no mobile phone and no web access an iPhone would be really great... but I do have these things.

The fact is that it is now cooler to hate the iPhone than it is to like the iPhone. Apple is like a boyband - the kids like them and the adult fans will defend them to the death, but the rest of us know that a phone is just a phone, an mp3 player is an mp3 player and a PC is just a PC and anyone who likes one particular brand of technology that much is a bit sad.

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Joke

Why is SMS (and MMS) so much more popular in the UK????

I just don't understand why SMS is so popular over there? My last phone did MMS too, never used it.

Is there some advantage in Europe to SMS and MMS we don't have in the states? Does everyone over there like typing on a tiny keyboard?

Serious, what is the appeal/advantage of SMS, or contrary-wise, why isn't SMS popular in the states? Is it our fat fingers? Our lazy hands? What WHAT?!? I must know!!

When I want to get a hold of someone I call their damn ass!

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Jobs Horns

@Carniphage

'It's obviously outselling the brick-like N95'

Check Nokias quarterly report

http://www.nokia.com/A4162334

Volumes of the high-end Nokia N95 were approximately 1.5 million units during the quarter.

And that is without Nokia tying Carphone Warehouse and O2 into a deal that costs them £10million in advertising which was the deal Apple demanded to get the 'exclusive' iBrick. That's also without the mega hype, free journalism reports, TV ads etc. With Apple, everything is HYPE HYPE HYPE HYPE. If you take that away, you actually see that most of their products are expensive second rate toys fit only for fashion victims.

'some people actually spend more on watches than 260 quid!'

Yes, and those people expect the watch to last years. A mobile phone only lasts 1-2 years before it is upgraded

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Thumb Down

this time next year....

...this time next year Apple may have learnt a very basic lesson and have an offering that meets user expectations. Just look at the ipod and see how far that has come, from a great idea to the omi-present icon of today.

Apple will get it right eventually I'm sure, but this iphone Mk 1 isn't it.

Luckily the rest of the market isn't really able to respond. Their phones are turgid and numbingly dull. Even with this feeble competition this phone can't make a real mark because it's just over priced (to purchase and contract ( the contract is actually laughable)).

So over 10% of the mobile market by this time next year, it could be with realistically priced and capable iphone mk2 or 3, but not with this over priced, fashion accessory.

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J
Coat

eh?

"A US made phone for the US market."

The US makes phones? The wonders never cease indeed. :-)

If other Apple kit is anything to go by, the box probably says "Made in China, designed in California".

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Dead Vulture

@ elder norm

"In fact, I have to wonder if most of these posts are Microsoft shills who get paid to trash Apple."

FFS, I wondered how long it would take for an Apple fanboy to come out with that old chestnut.

What an ass hat.

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looks nice but

A mate of mine who have more money than sense decided to get a Iphone and to be honest it is nice to use, if you are indoors. but the blasted thing is useless in picking up weak signals. I have a Samsung s500I on 02 and it works very well at my mates place, but he had to go and stand by a window to get a signal on the Iphone.

No MMS is a pain and it is not a 3G only service as someone else said, I don't use 3G and yet I can send MMS on my Samsung.

Using the Iphone for internet browsing was extremely slow, without 3G or even Edge, it was painful to use, but the interface is great and I like the way Apple have done the interface, according to my mate even using Edge do not make a lot of difference.

the touch interface for getting your music and video is nice, but I found it difficult to see even in our dull daylight we have at the moment. Mate found it ok to see, but then he have better eyes than me, but he still thought a proper keypad would be better.

Anyway due to the fact that he could not get a very good signal on it even the replacement was not better, 02 decided to give him a refund and agreed to change his contract as he have been with 02 for years.

the Iphone could have been a great phone, but yesterdays technology that is over priced, certainly out of my price range, even if I was after a contract phone.

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Jobs Horns

HTC

HTC Kaiser from T-Mobile

Tariff 22.50GBP 18 month contract Phone is 180GBP.

Retail price of phone is approx 450GBP. Contract wise it's 585GBP over 18 months, so minus the cost price of phone its 135GBP for 18 months, which is 7.50GBP per month for voice, text and data ("unlimited", but in reality 1GB, which should be plenty).

GPS, and the rest of the toys. I tad chunky though.

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Bronze badge

@Anon Coward

I moved to the UK from the States almost three years ago, and I too couldn't see the value in a system that began life as a cut rate version of a voicecall.

Three years later, I am hooked. SMS is a great way to cut out "telephone tag", like an email, but is delivered to a device that almost everyone here has on their person constantly, so you know they will get it quickly - unlike an email.

It also generates a delivery reciept when it is delivered to the recipient's phone, something that rarely works on email.

Lots of times i will send a text to schedule a phone call, just to ensure the person will be free. Some people see that as polite.

And the other major fact about texts are that they are VERY constrained in terms of how much attention you will require from the recipient. They know when they look at a text that it will be brief, and they can do it when they choose. Answering a phone call they have neither of those - they have to answer it then or play phone tag, and they have no idea how long it will go. So in some ways, texts are just more polite, and take less time.

Texts don't replace phone calls - they just give another channel. One that is very different than either emails or voicecalls, and has it's own set of uses.

Robert

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Coat

re: Why is SMS (and MMS) so much more popular in the UK????

@Anonymous Coward

Robert Hill gave a good list of reason, but left out one of the main ones:

SMS are dirt cheap. European TelCos have been racing each other to the bottom to provide cheap SMS as a competetive advantage to gain new customers. Originally, it was mostly aimed at younger people, but since the prices benefitted everyone, it caught on outside that group.

Also, unlike in the US (as I understand), we don't pay to receive messages -- only to send them, which makes it easier to justify sending one. You know that sending a message won't annoy the other party (well, apart from the potentially spammy bit) -- it's all out of your pocket.

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Anonymous Coward

Cautious Europe?

I'm not totally surprised by the slow start to the iphone's career in Europe. When the iphone was first sold in the states, eager hoards bought their hand sets with much excitement. Some months later Apple slashed the cost of the phone by between 30-50% I believe I saw quoted. Apple found themselves having to give refunds or vouchers to the initial wave of top whack payers in order to play fair.

I am a Brit, I am very aware that things rarely get much cheeper round here. I am sure that there is a whole swathe of "knowing' brits sat in arm chairs and around bars in good old blighty happily talking through the top of their hats,

"...well they'll get cheeper after christmas.'

"...'ll be like the yanks, they all got 'arff their money back'

'... once the first lot 'ave paid for the technology the price will drop like a stone'

Rule number one for British retail is realize what you can get for the product. Rule two is once realized, you can clearly get that, so why drop the cost, regardless? Rule three is any alterations to the product mean it must be better, so, it must be worth more!. So for those waiting for a bargain iphone, or refunds, remember if the 3G version is on it's way,......"they gion' get a whole lot more 'spensive'

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Bronze badge
Thumb Down

No MMS in iPhone?

>YC: "Wot, no MMS"

>

>ASS: "No, sonny, that 3g technology, we use EDGE"

What? Is that true? MMS was already introduced with 2G phones. All Nokias sold in the past few years support it. It was supposed to be the anointed successor of SMS, and while not a big advantage unless you want to send pictures, sound or video, it is sometimes quite useful. It is surprising if Apple really tries to sell an "advanced" phone without this feature.

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Dead Vulture

Too cynical?

Most people I know who want an iPhone are just waiting for their current contract to be up. Personally, as long as it's supported fully, I don't really care about how many they sell. We know El Reg wants this phone to fail, even if we don't fully understand the reason for having their prams installed with toy-launching vectors, but it's not performing anywhere nearly as badly as they'd hoped or predicted.

Wait until Christmas is done and dusted and get back to us about those sales figures, eh?

Yes, I have an iPhone and yes, I spend considerably more than £260 on mechanical watches. Some things are worth caring about.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

The usual Apple hating trolls are out, I see.

Fanboi here.

I had an iPod touch and was determined not to get an iPhone. Saw the iPhone ... wanted it. Sold the iPod touch. I am so happy with the iPhone because it does what I want it to do and it does it with panache!

No, it doesn't make tea or make love to me (though I do need to get out more). And no, it's not a pocket PC. When will the naysayers realise that it's not so much about what is does but the way that it does it. Proof of this will be the attempts to copy it by all the big boys. Criticism has been made of the touch keyboard. I actually use it and, despite some podginess of the fingers, it is amazingly accurate and forgiving ... it's at least as good as my typing skills on a normal keyboard.

The americans are (or were, recently) over here to see why the iPhone didn't sell as well as anticipated. The questions could have been answered before launch ... pay for phone AND contract, no 3G etc., er - no! ... but the US knows best (ahem!).

The trolls should understand that Apple are not going to achieve world domination with this or any other product in their current lineup, Bilge Gates and his convicted monopolist outfit has that accolade, but Apple will do what they often do, they'll set the marker for others to try to beat. The trolls will shout "Here's an iPhone killer" just as they continue to shout "Here's an iPod killer". Well, Zunes to you!

For once, be satisfied with the fact that, for some, the iPhone is just what they want. For others it's not the right bit of kit. And most of us will pay (even unfair) amounts of money for what we WANT, rather than less for what we DON'T WANT. Logic be damned!

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Jobs Halo

It's not about the price, or the software...

It's about the marketing. The iPod came out of nowhere. Be honest now, how many folk in the industry actually saw it's popularity coming? The iPod sold because it looked cool, made MP3 players "easy" to use (I know, I know, but The People thought so...), and was gradually endorsed by cool bands and celebs.

The iPhone was built up for months by marketing executives in both the phone industry and Apple before it even existed, not to mention the press coverage of it. How long did we have people punting supposed "this is what it will look like... probably" photochops? Months. Maybe even a year.

Apple missed the buzz. In the US they let the hype reach it's peak and start to fade away before actually releasing the product. By the time they released the damned thing over here people were barely talking about it outside tech circles. Sure folk like ITV did little bolt-on reports on it during the evening news, but no one cared.

Of course, they could've still salvaged a reasonable level of sales revenue had they targeted people like us... but they couldn't because they knew the actual phone was about as technologically advanced as a Siemens A60, save the fancy graphics.

Put simply - they tried too hard.

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Flame

Why is it...

If you disagree with the statement "the iPhone is the greatest technological and marketing acheivement in Mankind's history" you are either

a) A Microsoft shill paid to trash Apple

Or

b) An Apple hating Troll

Why is that?

What's wrong with option c) Someone who doesn't need, has no desire and doesn't terribly like <insert Apple product here>"?

Comparing the iPhone to a watch is without a doubt the most asinine comparison I've seen here yet. Yes, my watch is considerably more than 260 quid, but then I wear it every day, bash it off things left, right and centre, expect it to survive at 40m depths in cold water when diving and generally keep working regardless of the dumbass shit I do to it. I paid for top end hardcore mechanical engineering.

Not for fluff and fanfare for an item of delicate electronics that can't do half of what my SonyEricsson can but looks infinitely prettier.

Let's keep the comparisons pertinent.

Oh, and just to upset the Apple fanbois - I can't stand Microshaft either.

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Alert

Alright already.

I have to wonder why, every time there's an iPhone article the same old hats come out and bash it EVERY time.

We get it! You don't like it! You prefer your WM or S60 device more! You have to send the funny picture of that bloke being sick outside the pub immediately to everyone you know!

DON'T BUY ONE! Just get over it. In the spirit of Christmas, live and let live!!

Admit it though, deep deep down inside, you really, really want one but it just ain't cool to like Apple ;)

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No...

It's a shit phone. People need to get over it

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Stop

Erm...

what's an iPhone? 0_o

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Alien

N95 has already sold 4m units

http://www.gpsbusinessnews.com/index.php?action=article&numero=535

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Really??? :-)

""In fact, I have to wonder if most of these posts are Microsoft shills who get paid to trash Apple."

FFS, I wondered how long it would take for an Apple fanboy to come out with that old chestnut.

What an ass hat."

Speaking to the MS fanboy / linux fanboy that left that message:

Hey, when I read articles that come right out of the "be an Apple hater for fun and profit" handbook, I have to assume the obvious. :-)

Like said above, If you do not like Apple products, fine. Just do not buy them. Apple fans get tired of people that only speak up against Apple products. No positive input, just "it sucks cause........ and its Apple. "

You do not see Apple admirers putting down other products. If you like Microsoft junk or like building your own PC from the ground up, ...... fine. I enjoy Apple products because I have more to do than patch my computer all the time, or spend days trying to get my cell phone to do its "extra things".

Elder Norm

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Anonymous Coward

further to my last post....

People who understand Apple also realize that a phone is a device for making phone calls. Apple have produced an amazing phone for doing just that and have added some features further to that of a standard phone.

If I want to take a picture I use a camera, a video I use a video camera, serious and prolonged web access I use my mac powerbook and so on.

Do the same people dissing the iphone whinge on about their olympus mju being unable to make phone calls?

Frankly its' generally only kids and perverts who use phone cameras and due to the increasing quality of the cameras and ability to send captured images, those two groups of people are getting frighteningly closer all the time.

Well done Apple for making a phone a phone!

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Alert

@Elder Norm

'You do not see Apple admirers putting down other products.'

hahahahahahahahhahahahahahahaha

WTF planet do you live on? All you ever hear is 'problem with MS, buy a Mac', 'Linux to complicated, buy a Mac they are so user friendly', 'Problems? Wouldn't have happened with a Mac'

But they really sulk when the boot is on the other foot

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Jobs Halo

Still waiting for some objectivity .....

... to these comments. All I can read so far is "I hate Apple" or "I love Apple" with a smattering of "I hate you too..." for good measure.

The article was about the Cynical Europeans not buying the iPhone in droves. Fair enough, that does seem to be the case as you can walk into any official outlet and pick one up there and then. But that does not necessarily mean that the Europeans have taken a cynical approach to the new device. There are many factors at work, not the least being the strange paradigm of having to buy a handset in addition to a contract.

In the UK, at least, that is currently an extraordinary situation. We are generally given [even high end] handsets as part and parcel of the contract. Some choose to buy SIM-free at full manufacturer price (£450+ for the classic N95) but the majority of us take it in contract, sometimes for an initial fee. The N95, again, was usually £100 initial fee on a contract although it is now generally free of charge.

I do believe that the Apple iPhone's £267 is a very fair up-front charge for the device. The O2 contract is not all that bad either when taking into consideration the overall product. Most UK operators still charge extraordinary amounts for mobile data (Orange being the current joker in the pack).

That the iPhone is not a world-beating technology marvel is indisputable. It is, overall, rather average in the phone department. But it has its creditable features, not the least being the screen size, the unique UI, the browser even with its limitations and the close coupling with Apple's OS X Tiger and Leopard. The latter may not make much sense to the PC world, but then again WM devices tend not to interface too easily with OS X without some additional expense and effort.

I wonder, objectively, how many other manufacturers of mobile handsets brought out anything close to the iPhone in terms of its very apparent technological milestones and overall build quality. That in a first generation product. I mean, FFS poor old NEC [for example] still cannot get it right even after all the years that it has been manufacturing the devices. LG try, oh they try, but are blighted by quirky OS in their entire range. The actual number of successful and capable mobile manufacturers is quite limited really - although there are many out there. That Apple are held up to Nokia's light I think is an accolade for Apple by the naysayers. Nokia being the undisputed world champions are years ahead of Apple in terms of market share. So a comparison is not only futile but also lacks objectivity, it serves only to obsfucate - perhaps on purpose to try an score points in a pointless game.

In the end Apple will bring out successive generations of iPhone. As it does so the technology will improve and, perhaps, cater for a wider spread of the buying population. Unfortunately, I predict, that in its wake will be the same group of naysaying wolves howling futilely into the cold night air.

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and elder norms last comment

"I enjoy Apple products because I have more to do than patch my computer all the time"

I'm sorry, but apple produce a fair amount of patches to their software too - every time I boot up my gf's 10.3 based mac it has something new to update, and the itunes I run on my pc (I have been a windows ipod user since the very first generation to support windows, I even had to use ephpod because itunes didn't exist for the pc at that time and musicmatch is a blight on computing) is forever telling me there's a new version.

I'm guessing you don't have your automatic updates running then ;P

I grew up with macs and acorns (and it's RISC OS that has my heart when it comes to OS's) and do like a fair amount of their products, but that doesn't mean I have to like or support every apple product regardless, when I see a bad product I will comment on it regardless of who it is from..

It leads me to notice stark similarities in attitudes between the fevered brand fanboy and the nationalist fruitloops! (just swap "unpatriotic" with "m$ shill" and you even get the same mantra!)

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@paid shill

"In fact, I have to wonder if most of these posts are Microsoft shills who get paid to trash Apple."

Really. What does it pay? How often are we paid? Do we have to do an annual appraisal?

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Happy

installer.app

If you've got an iphone, jailbreak it, and put on installer.app - there are absoutely LOADS of third party apps out there, the quality is improving every day, and this neat little program tells you when one of your installed programs has been updated - installs are an absolute breeze.

And as this forum has been mainly about MMS/SMS - there are a whole bunch of the 3rd party apps that cover this off!

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Stop

Ludicrous O2 charges

I have been using my iPhone since early December, accessing email via IMAP. My account just got barred for spending £323 over my monthly line rental this month. My O2 web 'Recent Charges' just shows the initial £36.16 charge, no breakdown of these charges. I am being told to pay £300 to reactivate the phone, with no basis for the claims. There was no call, email or SMS to tell me the phone was barred from further use.

This is hardly 'unlimited' use. I love the iPhone but I'm not impressed with O2.

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