back to article Lords debate airline liquids ban

Who remembers the deadly liquid bomb airliner plot? Most of you, we're guessing, as there are still a lot of fairly mindless restrictions on taking liquids aboard planes - no matter that the plot was actually rather far-fetched. But fear not, UK readers, as your unelected representatives are alert to your interests. Yesterday …

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  1. TeeCee Gold badge
    Flame

    Self-defeating?

    You have to think that eventually somebody with less patience than most is going to get so pissed off with this suckuritee crap that they're going to completely lose it and blow up American 'planes as a protest at losing their bottle of cola. Now that would be poetic justice.

    Incidently, if he's Baron Swampy of Brighton, WTF has Battersea done to deserve being lumbered with the vacuous pillock?

    Also I wouldn't try paging Spike Milligan. Pagers are a bit "old hat" and the network isn't likely to have expanded enough to reach him. I'd suggest an SMS or maybe a call. Don't use "3" though as I'm pretty sure that Heaven is outside the M25.

  2. Anonymous Coward
    Stop

    The HoL

    has always been useful, there's always going to be idiots, but, as I'd hope most people have noticed, democracy has one nasty flaw - politicians lie! I know it's astounding, but sometimes politicians say they'll do one thing before the election, or disagree profoundly with something before an election, and don't do it or do it afterwards! Some are even dastardly enough to start a war without the public having any say!

    While it doesn't always work, the HoL is a regulator, since they have grown up with some power, even though they aren't powerful enough to mess up our country on their own, their lack of affiliation, or need to please everyone by lying about everything, means they can vote and be pretty good at vetoing the dross the government pushes out from time to time. Maybe they won't get it right all the time, but even if they prevent the government from making one stupid decision they'd be worth it and they do a lot better than that.

    Also, poking fun at different classes is pretty easy, I laughed at the content of what they said, but some of the article is just classism, which is just as bad whichever way it goes. I went to a private school and have had plenty of insults from various people, or sat by while people roll off stereotypes of public school boys. That's the sort of thing I expect from kids, in fact I think mild bullying is all part of growing up, but fostering this sort of thing in adults is just sad.

    And no, I'm not a Tory voter, I always voted Labour, then SSP, but I think it'll be Lib Dem this time round.

    Marmite is quite capable of being used as a weapon, just smear some on a stick and shove it in people's faces, they'll be throwing up in no time. :-)

  3. Acidbass

    the strength of cat-5 (offtopic)

    I just replaced the rear subframe on my car, upon which the petrol tank rests. While I jacked the subframe down I held the (empty) petrol tank in place with cat-5 tied round the shocks.

    I didn't test whether it worked afterwards, because it didn't work beforehand.

    Don't ask me why I keep broken network cables lying around, except that this one was bright green and looked pretty, and I was proved right in that 'it would come in useful one day'. And I did cut the rj45s off it, i'm not a complete noob. I was also tempted to leave it on as a truly unique geek mod - "mugen grille, koni shocks, powerflex bushings, 100Mbit/s petrol tank retainer etc." Anyone know if I can use SATA cable for my HT leads...?

    Also, in this case the IT angle was about pi/4, that being the angle between the network cable and the shocks at the points it was tied off. Paris Hilton made the tea and I found that a stack of iphones and powerbooks was an inferior axle stand when compared to a 4U chassis containing a windows 98 cd. The inference is clear.

    Don't worry about the coat, I just need my rohde and schwarz hat.

  4. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Scanners

    On the way out of Gatwick in January, I had a stainless steel thermos flask in my hand luggage. 1l capacity, stuffed with socks. The scanner operator wasn't concerned with that, but with the clear plastic bag of toiletries that I was supposed to have separated from my luggage.

    I would have thought that a double-walled stainless steel container would show up as pretty suspicious on those "X-ray" machines. Certainly I was asked to open it on the way back from Austria (*and* they made me empty my hipflask about which I had forgotten. Sob.). Can anyone expound on why they could discount the thermos flask as a problem?

  5. Laurent

    100ml is only on this side of the Atlantic

    Americans are much more careful, and unmetric. They allow 3oz, which is about 89ml. So you might be allowed to fly with your 100ml bottle one way, but it'll be confiscated when coming back..

  6. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    The shaolin/ninja/chuck/pirates... angle

    I would think that airport security strip-searching <insert favourite martial arts expert here> pose a bigger risk to public safety & order than any amount of any liquid?

  7. Claus P. Nielsen
    Coat

    The waste of ressources is what really worries me

    Ressources spend on checking harmless liquids must come from somewhere.

    My guess is that they are taken from other areas that actually matter.

    So I feel LESS secure with these restrictions in place than I would feel if the same ressources were used on something else.

    I would specifically love if the money were to be spend on salaries for competent and dedicated security personnel.

  8. Stu
    Pirate

    When does something get classified as a liquid?

    Last Christmas I had the pleasure of staying here in Sweden while my collegues headed back to Blighty for the festive season. In order to make it a little more like home I asked one of the guys to bring me back some Tesco Christmas pudding. Unfortunately, according to the security in Belgium (where he had a stay over) Christmas pudding contains liquid so they had to confiscate it.

    I just know the bastards ate it and the Swedes haven't a fucking clue about proper pudding.

  9. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    The missing ingredient for liquid explosive is duct tape!

    Its well known that anything can be fixed with duct tape, and gatwick security is aware of its danger.

    Admittedly they claimed it was confiscated because it could be used to tigh someone up...

  10. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    They might be unelected...

    ... but they've done more to stand up for the people of this country than the so-called elected MPs in the Commons who like to vote in new laws that radically reduce the freedoms of the people in this country.

  11. Dave

    @breakfast @AcidBase

    @breakfast: apply for a research grant? You are WAY beyond that stage, you plucky inventor, you would appear to have successfully completed the 'Demonstration' phase and you should now receive Main Gate funding to put this wonderful new 'rock' defence system into Full Scale Production. Well done! We should all be encouraged that this selfless act of sheer genius with no thoughts of profit should flourish in a countrry constantly exposed to the horrors of lipstick/hairgel/lemonade trinary weapons.

    @AcidBase: SATA cables are OK for HT leads so long as you have not fitted one of those Bosch oil-filled 'super coils'; the really tricky bit is getting a good crimped connection at the sparking plug end of the lead, tends to fall apart after 50 or so miles in my MkIII Defender.

  12. Anonymous Coward
    Boffin

    Bend and spread 'em

    OK!... What's next, a sigmoidoscopic exam given by some govenment butt pirate prior to boarding? All they will see up me is a picture of Bush and Cheney holding hands!

  13. Anonymous Coward
    Jobs Horns

    Liquid bombs

    I thought you a were morons,and I see I was right, those harmless bombs are made with muriatic acid and aluminum foil. So I guess they're harmless if you don't mind being sprayed with acid. 2 or 3 going off in an airliner cabin would cause some chaos, a good distraction for doing other things, don't you think?

    a Yank

  14. Tony Haines
    Pirate

    Title

    I went to Taiwan earlier in the year, and experienced the ridiculousness of the regulations.

    At the time (and as far as I know, these rules haven't changed) you were allowed to take liquids (and gels etc) in bottles with individual capacity no more than 100ml in a transparent zip-lock bag, with a max capacity of 1 litre. Part-full containers in excess of 100ml are not permitted, which ignores the fact all passengers now have a transparent zip-lock bag with a capacity of 1 l.

    Strictly speaking the rules don't say anything about solids, so technically you should be able to freeze anything you want to take on. But I wouldn't trust them to follow the letter of the law in that case.

    What isn't really considered in all the above about the liquids rules is the many other stupidities of the system. For example, at Birmingham airport we were told you are not allowed knives or imitation weapons, carefully searched and went past a big glass display-case of the penknives and toy guns they've taken off people. Well, OK. I think it has been pointed out before that the snaking back and forth line of people waiting to get through this heightened security makes a new target.

    Then we got to the secure area, where you can buy a meal which is served with a metal knife and fork. You then have a good hour or two to sharpen them before you get on the plane (without any further security checks).

  15. Nev
    Coat

    Feel so safe...

    Well, you can't blame all these security types wanting to make civilian airline passengers safe. I mean, it's not like they'd put us through all these security "measures" and then put us on an aeroplane with a load of unscreened cargo, now is it? Ummmm.... errrr.....

  16. Chris Marlowe

    Marmite....

    I think marmite -is- the result of an explosion in a brewery and should be banned regardless. A watchlist for those nefarious types who would even consider it anything other than a hazardous substance is also called for.

    But different strokes for different strokes. There are things I like that make others cringe, too.

  17. BitTwister

    @Liquid bombs

    > I thought you a were morons,and I see I was right

    Actually, you're wrong on both counts matey.

    > 2 or 3 going off in an airliner cabin would cause some chaos, a good distraction for doing other things

    As would a few people getting up and shouting at each other - so each passenger should have their larynx confiscated? But this is the problem with the unbridled paranoia some are prone to: life itself becomes a horror-show and every perceived 'threat' must be 'handled'.

    A (still-not-in-the-least-worried-by-so-called-turrist-threats) Brit.

  18. Anonymous Coward
    Coat

    The Exploding Shampoo Mystery

    http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/007883.html#139195

    There have already been outbreaks of Goonery

  19. James Pickett

    Loony..

    ..or not, I somehow feel safer when the Lords debate these things than when the Home Office does. At least we get the transcript...

  20. Anonymous Coward
    Jobs Horns

    BitTwister

    Gee matey, coming from a country thats too afraid to have public trash bins since the 70's, and has had men with machine guns walking around your airports for several decades, I think your brave talk is pretty amusing! Don't fly much, do you...? Are you french?

    a Yank

  21. cupperty
    Pirate

    My wife accidentally took a penknife to Morocco

    The fabbo security at Manchester didn't pick it up ...

    but the Moroccans did on the way back :)

  22. cupperty

    Basque EU MP? questioning legality of liquid ban

    This guy was going to drag the UK government through the courts to stop the ban - this was reported on R4 about 2 months ago. WAnyone know what happened to this?

    His arguments were ROTM (right on the mark). Basically that the UK govs assessment was OTT and that they should justify it to the EU. Did they?

  23. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    @a Yank

    The UK stopped putting out rubbish bins because people put REAL bombs in them (you know, that Semtex that was paid for by donations to the IRA by Americans). Since they successfully resolved this terrorist issue bins are back on the streets.

    Yes in UK Airports there are armed guards, f**k me what a surprise, there are armed guards in EVERY airport I've ever visited. What's your point? And why do you not mention that the guy on the sodding immigration counter at a US airport carries a firearm? Hell I wouldn't be surprised to learn that the janitors are armed as well! So if the number of firearms at an airport is an indicator of how "scared" a country is then where does the US rate on your scale.

    Next time before posting, for the love of God, first think "do I want these people to just suspect that I'm an idiot, or should I actually make this post and confirm it?"

  24. Steve

    @ moronic anonymous yank coward

    muriatic acid??

    Christ that sounds fucking deadly. In fact, it sounds more fucking deadly than hydrochloric acid. Go on, own up you were trying to be a clever little yank weren't you? And you thought we wouldn't notice.

    Prat.

  25. Silas
    Boffin

    I was stopped at Stanstead

    On my way to Copenhagen with some Marmite in my carry on luggage.

    The bloke says "that's a liquid and technically you're not allowed to carry it on board", I replied "okay, if it's a liquid, try drinking it then". Bloke looks unimpressed, I then continue with "and technically, isn't it an interstitial solid?"

    At which point, he spots me for being the PITA I am and gives me the Marmite back

  26. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Unelected bodies in power...

    ...like the European Commission. We don't get a say in who goes into the Commission, only the MEPs. They have jobs for life and when the European Parliament tried to sack them some years back, they refused to go. Democracy in Europe.

  27. Tawakalna
    Black Helicopters

    well they didn't mind when I..

    ..boarded the plane with my "Where's Osama?" colouring book, but they did confiscate my Al-Qrayola jumbo crayons, because I might have rubbed them together to melt them and created a possible terrorist weapon of sticky wax on the floor. Well "wax" sounds a bit like "anthrax" doesn't it?

    helicopters? at this hour?

  28. Lukin Brewer

    Nitroglycerine

    ...isn't toxic. It's a transparent, colourless, odourless liquid, viscous, but miscible in all proportions with water. It's a vasodilator used in medicine to treat angina. It reduces blood pressure (but not to a dangerous extent), can cause a morning-after headache, and would probably result in a case of the runs a few hours after being ingested. Mixed with titanium dioxide (or similar), it would look just like baby milk. Filling the top quarter of the bottle with water would make it slosh about properly, and enable one to take a sip under the watchful eye of the security people. A decent impact will set it off. The instructions for preparing it have appeared on "Fight Club" (a little short on the finesses that help prevent it from detonating prematurely, but martyrdom is martyrdom, ain't it?).

    So the question is: why hasn't it happened yet? Anyone?

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