back to article Manhunt 2 banned

Rockstar Games' Manhunt 2 has been to all intents and purposes banned in the UK after the British Board of Film Classification (BBFC) refused to certify the PS2 and Wii title. Without a BBFC certificate, the game can't legally be sold here. The BBFC's verdict of the game is damning: "Manhunt 2 is distinguishable from recent …

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Anyone else here played the first Manhunt?

I have.

All of this reminds me of a funny scene that took place when GTA San Andreas came out. I was in line to buy a copy of Xenogears (fifth freakin' copy I've owned of the game), and ahead of me was a woman with her son, who looked perhaps 11 years old, and his friend.

His hands were clenched around a copy of GTA SA, and he was talking eagerly with his friend about it. "Anything you find is a vehicle you can use! You can even pedal a bicycle around! And there are tons of weapons, too!"

The mother reached back and plucked the game from her son's hands, but he continued talking. "Yeah, guns, knives, baseball bats, your bare fists..."

Just as she was reaching for the money to pay for it, the kid made the fatal mistake of adding, "You can even find a double-headed dildo and beat people to death with it!"

At that point, she shoved the game at the store clerk, gathered up her money, and dragged her protesting son from the store. My eyes met the clerk's, and it was all we could do to keep from laughing until they'd fully departed the store.

Funny story? Yes. But it highlights an important point - that parents are, more often than not, idiots. Would it have been so hard (so GODDAMNED hard) for that woman to do even a little bit of research, maybe asked the clerk, "Do you think this game is appropriate?" And why was the mention of a sex toy just too much for her delicate sensibilities?

But because she, and so many like her, can't be bothered to do even the slightest bit of questioning, the rest of us have to pay for it.

Now, me, I didn't mind the first Manhunt. It was packed with the blackest of dark humour. I got bored with it about 3/4ths of the way through (there are only so many times that the director pants in your ear, "Oooh, you really got me off with that last one" before the humour starts to fade) and I certainly wouldn't let a kid play it.

Still, though, as long as there are parents like the ones in my story, there will always be an outcry for someone to do the parenting that they can't.

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Anonymous Coward

Excellent Decision by the UK Censors

Well done for once to the UK sensors for banning this game it is truly an awful game in both respects game play / ridiculous unnecessary amounts of inhuman violence. Now don’t get me wrong I do like a game with some violence in myself at times but this is completely over the top and deeply offensive to people who suffer from mental illnesses that would make them have these kinds of thoughts.

Games are meant to be about fun and yes I will admit that sometimes an acceptable amount of violence can be fun but there is no excuse for realising such a game where the object of the player is to be a murder that has to kill innocent people; this is only one victory against the sick minded mentality of the media these days but an important one non-the-less.

Bravo the censors!

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Weird

"I'm sure somebody will correct me if I'm wrong but surely it's only an offence for someone in the UK to sell a banned title. What can the British Government do if somebody in France buys a load of copies and sells them over the net? (other than try to seize them in the mail) Can they really get a European arrest warrant for that?"

Free trade within the EU, people in Europe would be breaking their own countries laws by importing into the UK something which was illegal here. Like Holland, cannabis is legal, but if you tried to import that into the UK your a drug smuggler and will be arrested in Holland. If you tried to send Nazi flags to Germany, you'd be arrested here.

The BBFC is always going to take stick over anything it bans, we believe in civil liberties, we believe that we have a god given right to watch whatever we want on our TV's and if RockStar bring out a game where the "star" is a child molester and the aim of the game is to abuse children, it better get an 18 certificate because we have a god given right!! Except we don't, there are boundries on taste, thats why there is still a 9pm watershed, Manhunt 2 goes beyond what could be classified as entertainment and into the realms of sadistic, brutal, where you get to remove someones head and use it for a weapon - with much detail.

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and yet

1)so who sold the young Stefan Pakeerah the game were they ever prosecuted ?

2)So some violence and death is ok then, i guess games where you play the representatives of the all loving state engaged in killing nasty terrorists is ok ...i because they certainly seems to have had a positive influence on the masses judging by the lack opposition by BBC for one , to the current hostilities maybe if Rockstar re do it so it is set in Iraq it will only get a 12 certficate

3) violence obviously works just try not paying your TV licence.......Ian your rant about the BBC wasnt out of place

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Wierd

> "I'm sure somebody will correct me if I'm wrong but surely it's only an offence for someone in the UK to sell a banned title. What can the British Government do if somebody in France buys a load of copies and sells them over the net?"

What can they do? Damn all, that's what!

It's illegal to sell R18 material in the UK without a sex shop licence, but you can quite legitimately buy it from abroad and have it posted to you in the UK.

All this does is hamstring British businesses whilst doing nothing to affect the trade.

Still, as long as our Government can say that they're trying to "protect" us...

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Censorship?

Why do other people insist on telling me what I can or cannot see? If they don't want to see it, fine, don't watch/see/play. I am a father of two and my wife and I decide what my children watch/see/play and damn the stupid so called moral majority/fundamentist christians/concerned viewers or whatever they want to call themselves.

Censorship is Big Brother (the Orwellian variety, not C4) gone madder. I don't need anyone else to protect me from this stuff, I am perfectlly capable of deciding for myself and my family.

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Anonymous Coward

That thin line...

If only more governments had the balls to take a stand against things worth taking a stand on...

The important thing to know is that many adults are just plain old ignorant idiots - idiots who do not need a license to have children, idiots who think violence is fine, that toy guns are great entertainment and torturing animals can be amusing.

Those idiot parents are out there buying shite like this macabre saistic torture game for their kids - and their kids are the ones which are rather impressionable. When your kids have been beaten up or had some other crime inflicted upon them I am sure your perspectives about proving the impact of sustained exposure to extreme violence will change somewhat.

...last time I checked I didn't live in a bubble (no offence to anyone actually living in a bubble - I am envious)... a government has to think about the impact to the collective as well as an individuals freedoms - otherwise cannibalism would be acceptable.

Furthermore, even if you as an individual think you have the ability to make moral judgement; what say you when your 10 year old is sneaking a go of that hyper-violent computer game or your anal donkey sex porn collection? That impact can not be overlooked.

Where do you want to draw the line? Yes its a bloody fine line because that line of censorship can easily be manipulated by interested corporate or government parties to affect public sentiment on certain issues. THAT fine line is a long way away from ManHunt 2.

If you bemaon your loss of freedom to exercise the joys of murder and/or chicken sodomy please realize that you cohabitate with several million other people and move to an aforementioned bubble.

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So this thing called BitTorrent right...

"There is sustained and cumulative casual sadism in the way in which these killings are committed, and encouraged, in the game,"

Yeah, that'll be the fun bit, the escapsim?! Nanny state supposedly protecting the normal people from the nutters who can't tell fiction from reality! Films like Hostel and SAW can get a license!

This was a corker:

"In short, the BBFC believes it's not worth risking the game falling into the hands of kids," Hmm, so this thing called BitTorrent right…which the BBFC believe is obviously beyond the average 10 year old's ability to operate…

As usual, stir up a fuss and the chattering classes all want to know what the fuss is about! No such thing as bad publicity!

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Silver badge

Desensitisation

"Mark: I am not saying that violent games are responsible for anything in society; but pilots learn to fight using simulators because that makes them more comfortable when facing the real thing."

Really? It helps them fly the plane and know the moves they can make and how to get in the best kill positions etc. However, when facing combat for the first time, it doesn't stop the pilot realising he won't simply restart in the event of a cockup and doesn't stop him realising that by pulling the trigger he is killing someone. The only way in which he becomes more comfortable is in knowing he is better skilled and therefore (hopefully) less likely to get killed. Unless someone is a psycopath, it doesn't make them more comfortable about killing people or being killed.

Given the kind of sadistic torture scenes that are present in some films, how they can bad this I don't know. If you watched Casino Royale in a cinema, you would have seen a large portion of the audience wince during the Bond/chair/knotted rope scene. Obviously, this is only for a scene and not throughout, but even so.

It's also interesting that the people sitting and watching these movies/games obviously consider themselves to be unaffected by their content, whereas lesser mortals like us would obviously instantly turn into homicidal maniacs.

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Movies

Personally, I wouldn't have given the Saw movies and Hostel a certificate either.

However, I accept that some people might have found them entertaining.

Just goes to show how hard it must be for the BBFC to please everyone.

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Good decision

I've played just about all the violent games over the last ten years at some point, including the original Manhunt. Even with those experiences behind me I still felt a bit off using the Wiimote and Nunchuk to strangle people in the Godfather game the first time I played it. I can understand how a game like Manhunt could have horrible repercussions on a person's psyche, and while I think the nanny state has gone crazy in some respects, the BBFC is perfectly justified to ban the occasional game, seeing as that's why they're there in the first place. Considering the games I've seen come through (all the way back to Wolf3d) I have confidence that they'd only do something like this if the game was really bad.

Saying that parents should be more responsible is perfectly valid, I agree with the point, but they're not, and until they are (and until shops are) there's really no way to police the market, and it's simply unfair to the children to blame the parents but leave the problem.

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Rediculous...

This is just infuriating. Like many people have commented upon, Movies that show torture, mutilation, drug abuse, mental and physical abuse all get licences. Yet a game doesn’t?

My parents when I was young taught me right from wrong. I was given martial arts lessons, learnt how to shoot a torrent of firearms, frequently watched horror movies and played violent WW2 games and other FPS games. I haven’t gone out a shot anyone, robbed anyone or raped anyone.

If this is the case, why wasn’t ‘The Punisher’ banned (torturing "enemies" for the hell of it)? or Counterstrike, Call of duty, Company of heroes, medal of honour, battlefield, and the worst of all, a book that documented killings of entire nations, the bible?? Is it because these don’t have a previous history of negative press from people? While we are at it, can we ban any news broadcasts from showing any wars or tragedies, or anything that can provoke an emotive reaction.

It just seems that when there is no motive for something evil that happens in the world, the media decides to blame something of fiction, where nearly every man, woman and child can turn on to BBC1, watch the news, and watch grown men with fully automatic weapons, RPG and tanks roll through an encampment and kill indiscriminately. Where is the censorship for that?

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Fair decision

I think the BBFC have over the years shown themselves to be progressive and wise, especially given their remit, which is to ban stuff like sex and violence, that I quite like.

I heard the original Manhunt was quite good and all that, but the tone is very very disturbing. Not one person who has posted here has suggested that this is suitable for children. It clearly isnt. And I think the BBFC, had they known that this title would not make its way into the hands of tens of thousands of children, through lax parenting, wouldn't have banned it. So I think that while their banning of the title is legally very dubious from a libertarian perspective, they have absolutely nailed it morally. My only concern is that this probably won't hurt Rockstar much, as sales in other countries will be boosted by the controversy

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not really a big deal is it.

i'm all for choosing what i want to play, but my understanding of banning the game was that you just cant sell it here.

so surely that doesnt make the game an 'illegal substance', it just means you have to go out of your way to get a copy. the cops arent gonna bust into my house if they see me playing it through the living room window surely?

if this stops the above mentioned scene where a mother only realises a game in not suitable seconds before she buys it, then i'm all for it being banned for sale in shops. Thats the sort of suitation that explains the problem all too well. (message to mothers, and fathers i guess, you should be more ashamed of people being mashed with a chainsaw, than bonked wherever with a dildo)

if i wanted to play it, i'd find a way to get it, if my child wanted it, it'd be much more difficult for him to obtain it, but it stops casual buying.

therefore if my understanding of this is right, then i'm happy its been 'banned', its the right desicision. aside from the torrent people which cant be controlled, the only people playing this game legitimately now will be people who are probably old enough to get a hold of a copy anyway.

funny tho, the law only 'protects' or serves those who obide by it....but that's for another comment.

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Anonymous Coward

Unrepentant underage gamer

Carmageddon was band because in the original version of the game you have to run down zombies that looked like real people with red blood, to get round the ban they changed them to less recognizable people and changed the blood to green.

I got the game on the day it came out when I was around 14 years old at the time and to this day I haven't ran anyone down in my car.

I'm sure Rockstar will appeal and make changes so that it is released, without taking too much away from the uncensored version.

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Escapism!

I live a stressful life, and need way to relax and unwind... I cant drive my car fast, i cant smoke, i cant drink in public... there needs to be ways of venting pent up emotion or else there will be more real life disasters!

I often want to beat my work colleauges in the head... but i resist knowing that i can shoot/stab/batter them when i get home... all from thew comfort of my sofa! that that basic human right away (and its always been there... voodoo dolls, photos pinned to dartboards, etc...) and im likely to actuly lamp one of the buggers for real!! :)

:) like many i now feel the need to experience this game!

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Anonymous Coward

Just two things

1) Who the **** do these people think they are, telling an adult what they can and can't watch/play? (especially when these hypocrites DO get to watch/play them!)

2) They are worried about them falling into the hands of children. Presumably this means that the BBFC believe that THEIR classification system doesn't work.

If this is the case, they are a waste of space, and if it isn't, they should give it an 18 certificate and shut up.

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How stupid do you need to be...

In order to need to play a game or watch a film in order to work out how to kill someone. Like there's all these people sat around thinking, "God, I wish I knew how to murderise people." until they play Manhunt 2.. "Of course! You wrap the lead pipe around their head! And there was me trying to kill people by hugging and kissing them."

To my mind playing violent games and watching violent films is escapism. It may allow people with problems with violence to sate their blood lust temporarily. There's a certain amount of evidence that pedophiles and rapists are more likely to commit real offences when sources of pornography are removed from them, and I don't see that violence should be any different.

And yeah, this is ridicualously good advertisment. I played the first game and didn't really enjoy it that much.. Too much sneaking around, too dark (lighting not theme) and too dull. Having heard this I really want to find a copy of Manhunt 2, just to see how bad it is, which I probably wouldn't have done otherwise.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Bravo the Censors

I find your comment sickening. I do not need, and certainly do not want, anybody telling me what I can and cannot read/watch/play. Where does their mandate come from? Not from me, that's for sure.

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So films like Hostel and Reservoir Dogs are Ok?

Riiiight, I fail to see why a game that is made out of pixels, bits and bytes should be banned when I'd say films like Hostel and Reservoir Dogs are worse in terms of mindless killing and more graphical.

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How stupid do you need to be...

I just re-read my last post, and realised it sounded a bit dodgy. I'm not condoning child porn or rape, I just meant normal, common or garden pornography.

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Well Said Finnbar

I'm old enough to decide if the game or film is for me. If I buy/rent something and it's not I can turn it off.

I think it is high time for the parents responsible for allowing the impressionable people the BBFC are attempting to protect to see the media are clamped down on.

On a side note, the child licencing idea gets my full support as this would go much further to protecting society than tarring all adults with the same brush. Most of us can tell the difference between games and reality.

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manhunt 2

Gutted! with the playstation 3 cost out of reach, i was finally looking forward to a decent release from the boys at rockstar..... what's going on with this country? As a responsible adult, why should i be deprived of having this game because of parents who aren't responsible & the small minority of maniacs who will be influenced by anything? shocking! If you are offended, don't buy it!! that's consumer choice - so are we reduced to buying awful memory games (DS - you suck!!!) or the latest SIMS release.............? What the hell!!!!!

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Poor Game, but Poor Decision

I find it hard to believe that this game was banned for any other reason than the pressure put on the BBFC by Leicester (my city) MP & the family of the child who was killed a couple of years ago. Of course this was a tragic incident. But the Police themselves said that Manhunt was not the motive.

I've played (and enjoyed) Silent Hill 4, The Suffering, Clock Tower 3, Fahrenheit, San Andreas, etc. etc. All very violent games. Silent Hill 4 with it's people being burnt & murdered, Fahrenheit with it's graphic opening scene of a guy being stabbed, The Suffering is nothing but brutal and graphic all the way through, and can be disturbing with it's realism in relation to prisoner treatment, Clock Tower shocked and upset me tremendously with it's horrific depiction of an elderly lady and and man being put & locked into acid vats by a psychopathic killer, and a young girl having her heard caved in by a sledge-hammer wielding maniac, and of course we all know the cotroversies of San Andreas. And yet theses were all released, with no cuts. Bloody Clock Tower was only rated 15!!! And yet Manhunt 2 is banned... Hmmm, doesn't quite add up to me..

I really don't care about the game itself; Manhunt 1 was utter tosh in my opinion, and have little reason to believe that Manhunt 2 is / will / would be, but I am just very opposed to the BBFC's lack of honesty in banning it. Go on guys. Just say it's coz of the murder last year. If not, you may as well take all the other games that I've mentioned off the shelves too. And while your at it, why not ban Wolf Creek, Hostel, Saw, and 28 Weeks Later (children being eaten alive anyone?).

The thing that gets me most is that I don't wanna see fantastic future titles like Silent Hill 5, Res 5 and GTA 4 come to the same fate.

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Dumb...

I wasn't bothered about this game. Hadn't even heard of it, in fact.

But now, of course, I HAVE to get a copy.

Man it would be ironic if it actually ended up turning me into a mad killer. Or if kids started beating up and robbing other kids to steal their copy of it.

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(Written by Reg staff)

Certifying/banning movies, games, the news, etc

It's worth considering what the sales ban is all about before asking why other, equally violent media are allowed on our screens.

Cinema's generally don't allow kids in to see films like Hostel, Saw etc, so here you have a way of imposing the certificate in order to protect youngsters, as we should.

DVDs are trickier and, like games, can easily be purchased by an 'adult' who then passes them on to kids. Balancing the right of an adult, who can be supposed to be able to make a rational decision about what he or she watches, with the need to protect kids is incredibly hard, and debate on video has been raging since the early 1980s and still hasn't been resolved. Nor will it ever, I think.

Generally, the BBFC is tougher with video certification than movie certification - demanding more cuts, for instance - because it knows how easy it is for 18-certificate videos to fall into the hands of children.

So why not let Manunt 2 out with an 18 certificate? Two reasons. First, as the BBFC said, the game simply can't be cut to make it certifiable. Many, many movies and videos are not given even 18 certificates until cuts have been made. The studios make those cuts, and onto the shelves go the videos.

But there's something more important here than mere cuts: games are not videos. Watching a movie is, largely, a passive process. Playing a game is an active one. Watching someone die horribly with spiky things in their heads is not the same things as putting the spikes in yourself, albeit virtually. In one you're a voyeur, in the other you're a participant.

Now, what about gunninng down people in a first-person shoot-'em-up? Surely that's no different than Manhunt 2, and that's allowed? No, because the context and setting is very different.

You aren't going to meet Nazi stormtroopers, aliens, monsters, zombies etc in real life, so there's no assocation between the game and the real world. Manhunt 2's problem is that you prey on people who are very difficult, visually, to distiguish between folk in the real world. We grown-ups can appreciate the difference, but it's not at all clear young kids can.

My four-year-old thinks Doctor Who is real. In a few years he won't but he probably won't necessarily make the same distinction with a 'realistic' show like EastEnders. Or Manhunt 2.

As for the news, again its about context, and there are plenty of things broadcasters are not permitted to show, and why we have the 9pm watershed. Like DVDs, it's impossible to be sure kids aren't seeing inapproprite material, but crucially not of it is interactive in the true sense.

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Anonymous Coward

Re: Bravo the Censors | Reply To Comment on my Comment

I am not saying that you should be restricted I don’t actually find the fact that people want to play a game where you are a stalker / murderer offensive at all that’s there own decision which I have no say in, I only objected to the atmosphere of the game and advertising in publications such as Playstation Official Magazine UK along the lines such as “get ready to go insane with Manhunt 2 & the PS2” and “in the mind of a murderer”.

This is all very offensive to mentality ill people which is no great surprise is it really as it’s still deemed as acceptable to use diagrammatize terms such as “nutcase”, “mad” and “maniac” in society these days to describe people who suffer from mental illnesses, imagine if these we're racist, sexist or homophobic terms you’d be stopped almost immediately.

At the end of the day if someone wants to play such a game I'll turn a blind eye to it but I will NOT to such marketing campaigns used to promote such a game, that is why I'm happy to see Manhunt 2 banned!

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Bravo BBFC

Congratulations to the BBFC on attracting many potential underage and overage customers who may never have previously considered buying this game. In an era where online purchases are fast catching up with retail, these games can be bought online for delivery within days, thus making their whole system useless. If I really did want this game, I will simply buy another european version as almost all games now come automatically with language selection on set up.

By banning this game, all the BBFC have done is highlight the game and make it all the more attractive. And once again with online purchase, they may as well be saying "Now children you can't play this game - but I will just leave it on the table!". We may be able to stop a 12 year old from going to the cinema to see an 18s movie but we really have no very little control from stopping him from seeing it on DVD when released. Perhaps we should be looking at some movies like SAW 1, 2 & 3 and Hostel being released only in the cinema and not being given a certificate for DVD release if this is how they plan on dealing with overly violent media. At 18 we are adults and should be able to make up our own mind if we want to buy something or not. They would be better off giving every "overly violent" game an 18s rating and staying quiet than making a big ruckus which only fuels its popularity. As an example, when Manhunt was linked to the murder of Stefan Pakeerah and publicised internationally, our local game stores here in Ireland, in my home town of Cork were all sold out in two days. And this was a game that previously people did not pick up on. I wonder do Rockstar pay the BBFC to ban these games so as to publicise them and bring them to the public's attention - this is better than any advertisement campaign on magazines or TV!

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Rob

Just goes to show...

... I think the posts on this story highlight just how many responsible adults we really have in this country (not enough, hardly any) and how many selfish people we have with a complete lack of respect for the other human beings that live in the society they share. We have complacent parents because they live in a culture where we cotton wrap our kids because we have killers/rapists/peedo's about. Now the real question is are they prominient now because we are more liberal with our media (films/news/games/TV) or is it because we try and shut these sort of things down that they turn to the real thing.

Lets face it, if someone is that way inclined, then the material that will give them cheap thrills will only satisfy them for a short while before the tension has built up so much that they need it for real.

Because we are so liberal and blase about things nowadays help's to create certain stereotypes (ie, CHAV - Council House And Violent, in case anyone didn't know what it stood for).

And WooHoo, I'm not the only person who thinks you should need a license to have a child, just a shame that it's covered by human rights.

Reality of the situation is... No people can't be trusted to think for themselves, because generally all they think of, is themselves, human nature unfortunately.

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Slightly missing the point

To whoever wrote: Excellent Decision by the UK Censors

The sheer fact you are missing is that everything you wrote is about how YOU FEEL about the choices made by the censor, your writings are your own opinion. You even seem to have an opinion on just how bad the game is clearly without having any exposure to it what so ever.

So you like a game with a little bit of violence, you dont mind telling everyone else exactly how you feel about the game and in this case that happens to fall in line with what the BBFC tell everyone is acceptable to be exposed to. However, a lot of other people may not be overly bothered by the level of violence in Manhunt 2 but are not free to voice their opinions to any forum of influenced and power that will listen and are denied their right of choice to this game.

And yes, it is a game, anyone who decides to re-enact their gaming experience through real life endevours clearly has a problem in the first instance, and if the game didn't trigger the reaction, something else on the market of equal disturbing value certainly would have.

The main gripe here is clearly towards the BBFC removing choice from responsible adults because of having to cater for the lowest common demoninator, shite parents. Its about unknown people who are put in a tremendously hard position making choices for an entire nation. I personally fall in line with the people who are seemingly outraged that the punishment for lacking parental skills and responsibility now affects (effects?) me as an adult. I probably would have bought Manhunt 2 if only because there isnt anything else on the Wii worth buying at the moment but the sheer fact that I am unable to now because a bunch of people decided I'm not allowed to is angering to say the least.

The new Rambo film that now has a trailor out looks more brutal than anything I've seen in ages, and hell I feel sorry for all the 16 and 17 year olds out there who have started a family but aren't actually allowed to purchase explicit sexual content on any sort of available media. I think something needs to be done to actively encourage people taking more responsibility for their kids and a review to make these censorship rules actually make some sort of sense.

I personally wouldn't go out of my way to mod-chip my machine to play this game on import (which seems less likely now its banned in the states too) but what this will have certainly done is put the game on all underaged kids wish list. Forbidden fruit.

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ignorance

I'm all for restricted access to things inappropriate for children.

BUT.

"Games are meant to be about fun and yes I will admit that sometimes an acceptable amount of violence can be fun but there is no excuse for realizing such a game where the object of the player is to be a murder that has to kill innocent people; this is only one victory against the sick minded mentality of the media these days but an important one non-the-less."

I haven’t paid much attention to Manhunt 2, but having played Manhunt 1 (and finished it). In light of the content of Manhunt 1 I would like to comment.

For starters you are an anti-hero.

The games story has you as a death row inmate who is being executed (because your character did murder someone, there is no dispute). The execution is faked and you are smuggled out of the prison and taken to some rich (I think politician) mans private estate. He gets his jollies by taking hardened criminals and dropping them in his custom little playground. He has invited various groups of thugs and killers to hunt you (hence the title of the game Manhunt).

None of the people trying to kill you are ever depicted as anything better or more human then your character (in fact they are often worse). Even the level with the police it turns out they are all on the take from this guy and just as bad as all the other killers in the game.

You are not killing "innocent people". When you are faced with innocents you must protect them.

There are at least 3 points in the game where you have to save people. In the first instance there is a homeless guy you are told you need to get from point A to point B alive and intact through these groups of murderers. In the second you have to save some of your family members (they are not murderers or anything, just normal people) that the rich guy has kidnapped and placed in danger (if you do manage to save them, the rich man has them killed anyway later in the game and you are shown this via some TV sets in the mall level). In the third instance I can think of there is a reporter you have to keep safe (as I remember dirty cops are out to kill her) so she can expose the whole thing that is going down.

Is it a game of huggy-kissy full or moral actions and good? No, it is not. But neither are many entertainment products available to adults with no more control then a rating notice.

Just because you can kill someone graphically in the game does not mean that you have to use those methods. Yes the rich man likes it when you are brutal and if content (art and such as I remember) are a goal they give you more "points", but you have free will.

AFAIK no one has made a game that matches your made up reality of what the content in Manhunt 1 is and after checking the web for info about 2 it seems to be not what you describe either, looks more like a V for Vendetta type situation (but localized to the people who were doing the research).

How about people stop attacking imaginary demons and go deal with some of the things that exist in the real world?

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