back to article Can you make a swarm of 20+ flying military robots? UK.gov wants you

Defence boffins are running a competition to see who can develop a drone platform capable of running up to 20 UAVs “to achieve military effect across the electro-magnetic spectrum”. The Centre for Defence Enterprise, part of the Ministry of Defence, is running the competition, titled “Many drones make light work”. A public …

  1. wobbly1

    They're having a giraffe.

    Prospective bidders will “need to demonstrate how these platforms can be supplied and operated at a low cost and how they can integrate technologies from other suppliers in a cost-effective way”

    "Hello Thales? I'm thinking of entering this competition can you give me the APIs for your proprietary kit, so I can make my kit integrate with yours? Is that hysterical laughter i can hear?"

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Meh

      Re: They're having a giraffe.

      "Hello Thales? I'm thinking of entering this competition can you give me the APIs for your proprietary kit, so I can make my kit integrate with yours? Is that hysterical laughter i can hear?"

      I think SME is MoDspeak for "wholly owned subsidiary of a huge defence contractor", so your parent company will be able to negotiate this sort of stuff, no problem.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: They're having a giraffe.

        Not quite. There is a very clear definition of what constitutes an "SME", and it excludes companies that are owned or controlled by the big primes (e.g. Thales, Airbus Space & Defence, etc).

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: They're having a giraffe.

      @wobbly1; "Prospective bidders" on a project in the £40,000 to 80,000 range? What's in it for them? That's not even "money down the back of the sofa" in military terms.

      That's more like one of the long-out-of-circulation 1/2 p coins you found under the floorboards a few years back and kept around for curiosity's sake.

      1. pauleverett

        Re: They're having a giraffe.

        That is a pathetic amount of money. I can't imagine any commercial entity having the slightest bit of interest in the project. Why would anyone even bother, if that is all that's on offer? ideas and tech are worth money. What they are offering is nothing short of an insult to any dev, or startup. it's not even a months rent, for some offices I have been in.

  2. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    "In entirely unrelated news, sales went up in Russia of high tensile strength fishing nets. Analysts have not yet found an explanation for this phenomenon, but have observed rising share prices for manufacturers and suppliers of the raw materials involved"

    :)

  3. allthecoolshortnamesweretaken

    Primes? Primes? I'm pretty sure that they can be divided into fractions if necessary.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Joke

      > Primes? Primes? I'm pretty sure that they can be divided into fractions if necessary.

      'Factions' more like.

  4. Voland's right hand Silver badge

    Are you listening, BAE Systems?

    Of course they are. They will after that rebadge it under OEM and put 800% markup for "militarizing it".

    They are probably behind that requirement to ensure the correct juicy margin.

  5. @JagPatel3

    Price-fixing on a Grand Scale

    The clear message behind the Government’s defence procurement policy is that military equipment for the Armed Forces is to be purchased through fair and open competition – the only exception being off-the-shelf purchases and single-source contracts.

    This is to be achieved by selecting the preferred Prime Contractor from a choice of industry teams by running a multiple-phase, winner-takes-all competition on the basis of a level playing field, genuinely open to all-comers including non-domiciled suppliers – to ensure it gets the very best value for money for the taxpayer.

    However, the ‘sudden death’ competition (which reduces the field of Bidders from six to one following a one-off release of the invitation to tender) currently used by MoD has been rendered ineffective by Defence Contractors, who are quoting identical bottom-line Selling Prices against the same Requirement – which amounts to price-fixing on a grand scale, with the active connivance of the Secretary of State for Defence. Worse still, MoD’s Project Team Leader at Abbey Wood, Bristol is being denied the opportunity to choose the single Prime Contractor on the basis of price competitiveness, and therefore value for money.

    This has come about because MoD’s long-standing policy of disclosing the total budgeted expenditure figure or associated year-on-year financial funding profile in the ITT has resulted in Defence Contractors quoting identical bottom-line Selling Prices in their ITT responses – an entirely predictable result!

    It is not for MoD to tell the Private Sector what the price of a new equipment programme should be. Instead, it is very much the business of Defence Contractors to tell MoD how much each new equipment programme will cost, based upon the prevailing value of goods, services, labour and finance in the free market shaped, not by the interfering hand of people in the pay of the State who always get it wrong, but by competitive market forces.

    @JagPatel3 on twitter

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Price-fixing on a Grand Scale

      I used to work with a very clever chap who spent the later half of his career working on an endless stream of small but profitable deliverables such as this. He never lost a tender due to his unique way of working.

      First he would build something radar related useful to the MOD. Then he would write a "request to tender" document that specified exactly what his gadget did and give this document to his friends at the MOD. When the MOD sent him and presumably others the suspiciously familiar "request to tender" his resulting tender always won because it needed no margin for overcoming the unknown and other contingencies. He also had a very good reputation for always delivering a working device to spec and on time. While he was waiting for the MOD to complete the tendering process he would be tinkering and building his next radar gadget, and the cycle would continue.

      In retrospect it was money well spent by the MOD: it allowed a great thinker to deliver value without being constrained by process and politics.

  6. This post has been deleted by its author

  7. Doctor_Wibble
    Angel

    As per that episode of Scorpion

    The drone software must be resistant to having its wifi hacked via the spyware on a pwned smartphone and the drones themselves must be resistant to being shot down by the EMP from a modified toaster with a fishing rod stuck in it.

    There's also the question of whether they can dodge being caught in a net, e.g. as fired from one of Mr Zorg's fine multi-function assault weapons as demonstrated in that other documentary.

    Where's the 'saw it on telly, it must be true' icon?

  8. Mike Shepherd
    Meh

    Trying it on

    So, three hundred years ago, the government offered £20,000 (worth about £3m now) for an accurate clock that would work on a ship, but now they're offering "up to £80k" for this?

    Given the struggle that John Harrison had to prise his reward from the government's reluctant fingers, would anyone waste their time with this latest proposal?

  9. Anonymous Blowhard

    “to achieve military effect across the electro-magnetic spectrum”

    So a bunch of poorly-designed Parrot-clones that interfere with your telly would count?

    1. You aint sin me, roit
      Black Helicopters

      “to achieve military effect across the electro-magnetic spectrum”

      They mean frying your ass with X-Ray lasers...

      While jamming mobile comms so you can't update your Facebook page.

  10. Haku
    Unhappy

    The EASA might have something to say about drone usage.

    It appears they're set to kill the hobby and commercial side of drone usage by introducing new regulations that are absolutely absurd:

    http://droneinsider.org/new-easa-drone-regulations-threaten-kill-uk-european-drone-industry/

    Homebuilt drones only allowed to be up to 250g in weight?! And the height restricted to 50m (down from 121m) along with distance to 100m (down from 500m) here in the uk? Utter madness.

    This doesn't just affect multirotors but the model aircraft flyers who have been happily flying for decades without attracting the sort of scaremongering the introduction of affordable multirotors to the world has caused.

    1. Brenda McViking

      Re: The EASA might have something to say about drone usage.

      Well consider that in the US, thanks to kneejerk FAA regulations, that a drone swarm with 20+ drones would need a human swarm with 20+ operators on the ground keeping line of sight and a killswitch for each drone.

      Drones do need regulating as in the hands of moron consumers, they do pose a real danger to aircraft. Model aircraft in the hands of a moron lasted 1-3 flights, so it was a self-controlling problem, but these multirotors are just too damn easy to get hold of and fly with no skill, no awareness and no clue. I agree that regulations however need to be properly thought out rather than just outlawing perfectly responsible flyers.

      A licence already exists for flying these things, so rather than wasting effort in regulating the industry out of existance, it would be far better to introduce a licencing and qualification system to ensure those people with access to drones which pose a hazard to aircraft are aware of that fact and recieve some semblance of training to ensure that they too become responsible flyers.

      My first port of call would be getting the model aircraft hobbyists onboard - and their clubs & societies could easily become the licensors much in the same way as gun clubs act in the safegaurding of legal firearms, or diving centres qualify divers, or yachting, motorsport - Virtually every hobby with an element of danger to it operates in this way.

  11. tr1ck5t3r

    Yeah the problem with the space based satellites using lidar tracking humans like the reverse of the 1cm+ space debris tracking systems as noted here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_debris#Tracking_and_measurement is they dont work so well when its a bit cloudy.

    Still how hard would it be to fix up a couple of drones carrying small explosives that detonate on impact hanging a net between them so your ICBM flies right into the goal net? Just needs to be deployed from a jet fighter far enough away to not trigger the ICBM avoidance systems but close enough so you dont need massive drones that show up on the ICBM systems. Goal......

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