back to article Royal Mail mulls drones for rural deliveries

The Royal Mail's chief exec has envisioned a future with drone deliveries and driverless vans. Jumping enthusiastically onto the airborne parcel bandwagon, Moya Greene told the CBI's annual conference she'd "love to see" UAVs taking on rural delivery services to "more remote places where you don’t have to deliver too much". …

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  1. Martin 47

    ......and just how is the drone or driverless truck going to post a letter through a letterbox?

    1. John Robson Silver badge

      Where we're going, we don't need a letterbox...

      Just drive through the wall...

      1. Dave 126 Silver badge

        >......and just how is the drone or driverless truck going to post a letter through a letterbox?

        See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paperboy_(video_game)

    2. Cuddles

      @Martin 47

      "and just how is the drone or driverless truck going to post a letter through a letterbox?"

      Given that most deliveries apparently consist of throwing a package on the floor, outside, in the rain, in full view of a public footpath, with no attempt to knock on the door or leave any notification that a delivery has been made, I don't see how drones could possibly make things any worse. I guess it could go out of control, smash through my window and set the house on fire, but at least then they'd have actually done their fucking job and delivered the thing.

      1. Horridbloke

        Re: smash through my window and set the house on fire

        I think Citylink already have a patent on that.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: smash through my window and set the house on fire

          You mean CityLink HAD that. I guess will we find out this Christmas who has picks up the prize for worst deliveries this year.

          1. Peter Ford

            Re: smash through my window and set the house on fire

            What's really scary is that ParcelForce (the Post Office parcel people) are the best compared to most of the other courier companies in the UK - I'm looking at you Yodel...

      2. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

        Re: @Martin 47

        "...throwing a package on the floor, outside, in the rain, in full view of a public footpath..."

        You k now, some of you people seem to live in some really shitty places with really shitty delivery services. Maybe I just have exceptional levels of charm which engenders the best in people but I've only had one single problem with a delivery and that was Yodel. They held up a telly for 3 days in a depot on the other side of the UK for some unknown reason despite having been paid for a next day delivery.

        The local posty is very accommodating and knows which neighbours are "safe" to leave parcels with. If we aren't in and no one can take it in or needs signing for we always get a card through the door and pick it next day down at the local office.

        Maybe the problems are caused by living in the big cities where everyone always seems to be in such a hurry all the time and being a postman is seen as a menial short term job instead of job to be done well. Maybe the prime cause is massively expensive housing so the lower paid workers who are needed can't afford to live there and desperately need to move on and up. My little 3 bed house would easily be worth 10x or more in certain parts of London.

        1. Cuddles

          Re: @Martin 47

          "Maybe the problems are caused by living in the big cities where everyone always seems to be in such a hurry all the time and being a postman is seen as a menial short term job instead of job to be done well. Maybe the prime cause is massively expensive housing so the lower paid workers who are needed can't afford to live there and desperately need to move on and up. My little 3 bed house would easily be worth 10x or more in certain parts of London."

          Given that I live in a small rural town, it seems unlikely London is to blame. In fact, when I did live in a big city (Birmingham rather than London), I had far fewer problems with deliveries. Although most likely because anything left outside would be stolen within 30 seconds so even the worst delivery companies weren't stupid enough to try it. As for the "local posty", that's probably a large part of the problem - parcels are generally not delivered by the local posty.

          The other main part of the problem is that none of them give a fuck because as far as they're concerned we're not their customers, the people paying for the delivery are. You can't complain about their service and you can't choose a different provider, all you can do is complain to whoever you ordered something from and hope they bother to pass it on.

    3. Lamont Cranston

      I imagine it will just fly past the front door,

      and drop a "you were out" card on the step.

      1. Trigonoceps occipitalis

        Re: I imagine it will just fly past the front door,

        Scattering elastic bands as it passes along.

    4. macjules
      FAIL

      The Santa option?

      Drops the package/letters down your chimney. No chimney? Never mind - we'll just drop them onto the muddy path like we do at the moment.

    5. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      ......and just how is the drone or driverless truck going to post a letter through a letterbox?

      The US is *way* ahead of you and has been extensively testing in regions that won't get the politicians into trouble when things go wrong (and they do). They simply arm the drones, so they just create a new letterbox that can accommodate even the largest parcel. All Royal Mail has to do to adopt this is learn how to spell "collateral damage"...

      /sarcasm

      Bootnote: the kind of places Royal Mail has trouble delivering to also happen to have the worst possible weather for flying but I guess that's hard to fathom from an air-conditioned office.

      1. smudge

        the kind of places Royal Mail has trouble delivering to also happen to have the worst possible weather for flying ...

        And also the sorts of roads that could be more difficult for "autonomous ground vehicles".

      2. PNGuinn
        Coffee/keyboard

        re: worst possible weather

        Well, I never would have guessed that the edge of east London had the worst possible weather. Learn something new on el reg etc etc.

        Need a <<BIG>> sarchasm icon

    6. PNGuinn
      Go

      Posting thru letterboxes....

      Marvin - who else?

    7. elaar

      Royal Mail knows that the next addition to the snooper's charter will ask all citizens to remove their front doors, so the government can ensure there's no paedophiles or terrorists lurking within.

  2. Dave 126 Silver badge

    This wasn't inspired by the recent news that a Welsh Village is having Royal Mail deliveries suspended, on account of a fierce mastiff dog that got loose and intimidated a postwoman?

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-south-west-wales-34765737

    1. Chemist

      "fierce mastiff dog"

      So the golden eagle going for the drone .....

    2. Synonymous Howard

      To be fair posties do suffer more than most when it comes to dog bites ...

      "Over 2,960 postmen and women were attacked across the UK by dogs from April 2014 to April 2015 some leading to a permanent disabling injury. While the number of attacks has fallen by 10 per cent nationally from the previous year after the change in legislation and greater understanding through our dog awareness campaigns, it still remains unacceptably high and we are committed to driving this down further."

      [ http://www.royalmailgroup.com/customers/customer-commitment/preventing-dog-attacks ]

      1. James Hughes 1

        Re: To be fair posties do suffer more than most when it comes to dog bites ...

        In a previous life, I used to deliver coal. One of the guys I worked with was having problems with a Jack Russell - kept biting him. SO the customer was phoned before deliveries to ask them to keep the dog indoor.

        Of course, they couldn't be arsed, not realising that the coalie has 25kg of rock on his shoulders. Next time the dog bit him on the ankle, he dropped the coal, almost by accident.

        You can fill in the rest.

        Posties, sadly, don't have the nuclear option.

  3. Rafael 1

    Jumping enthusiastically onto the airborne parcel bandwagon..

    ...what could possibly go wrong?

    Just out of curiosity,which is the Brit equivalent of "it was taking a gander at my daughters so I've shoot it?"

    Something with catapults and/or crossbows, I hope.

    1. Bc1609

      Re: Jumping enthusiastically onto the airborne parcel bandwagon..

      Given that she's talking about rural areas, I think "I shot it" will work perfectly well.

      "You do know that there are more guns in the country than there are in the city? Everyone and their mums is packin' round 'ere!"

      "Like who?"

      "Farmers."

      "Who else?"

      "Farmers' mums."

      -Hot Fuzz, 2007.

    2. Prst. V.Jeltz Silver badge

      we shot it

      "Something with catapults and/or crossbows, I hope."

      we really are cavemen.... Those of us without shotguns would be pretty defenceless from drone stalking

    3. PNGuinn
      Joke

      Catapults? Crossbows?

      Pah to your puny furrin weapons.

      The English Longbow, if you please. I can just see the daily practice sessions on the lush village green outside the delivery office.......

      Icon because at least they don't fly over village greens....

      1. TheOtherHobbes

        Re: Catapults? Crossbows?

        This is 2015, not 1415 - so domestic EMP cannon, surely?

        Just think of it as a small and not very loud dog for Post Drone Pat 1.0.

  4. chivo243 Silver badge
    Headmaster

    Driverless truck

    And what happens when there is nobody at home to receive the delivery? Or if it's gramps in a wheelchair and hasn't crossed the front door threshold since his last heart attack?

    I want one of these high paying jobs where you can spout diarrhea out of your mouth and the people below you that want to keep their job eat it up and ask for more!

    1. PNGuinn
      Coat

      @ Driverless truck

      PLEEEZE don't become my next postman....

      Thanks - it's the nice clean white one and I'd like it to stay that way.

    2. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

      Re: Driverless truck

      Considering the postal union I'd expect a driver-less vehicle to have to be fully "supervised" by a fully qualified driver/postie who'll probably get paid extra if s/he has to actually get out of the vehicle to hand over mail or drop "while you were out" cards.

      Meanwhile, the marketing wonks who all have iPhones will be moving towards the abolition of "while you were out" cards and switch to email alerts because "well doesn't everyone have an iPhone?"

  5. M7S
    Coat

    Junk mail

    Or at least, just another kind of flyer courtesy of the post office

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Junk mail

      POST OFFICE != Royal Mail

      1. Martin-73 Silver badge

        Re: Junk mail

        This is the root cause of the problem :D

  6. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Solving the wrong problem

    This is the same post office that seems unable to supply its delivery staff with electric bicycles or tricycles. Other countries seem able to supply postal workers with a range of small delivery vehicles - here we are again with them talking about technology which is currently still a fantasy, while failing to do things which would improve deliveries right now.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Solving the wrong problem

      POST OFFICE != Royal Mail

      Anyway this will never fly (pun intended) and is probably just a way of getting pre-christmas free advertising for Royal Mail.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Solving the wrong problem

        I decline to call it "Royal Mail", as it is not public sector any more. It's just another company.

        1. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

          Re: Solving the wrong problem

          "I decline to call it "Royal Mail", as it is not public sector any more. It's just another company."

          Good point. Do they still have a Royal Charter or should it be a "By Appointment..." arms now?

  7. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Airborne delivery with smart onboard AI

    Skip over the drones and go full circle back to pigeons.

    Or ravens.

    Or swallows, depending on the payload weight.

    1. Jimmy2Cows Silver badge
      Coat

      Re: Swallows...

      That an African or European swallow?

      1. macjules

        Re: Swallows...

        Airspeed can also be predicted using a published formula. By inverting this midpoint Strouhal ratio of 0.3 (fA/U ≈ 0.3), Graham K. Taylor et al. show that as a rule of thumb, the speed of a flying animal is roughly 3 times frequency times amplitude (U ≈ 3fA).5

        We now need only plug in the numbers:

        U ≈ 3fA

        f ≈ 15 (beats per second)

        A ≈ 0.22 (meters per beat)

        U ≈ 3*15*0.22 ≈ 9.9

        ... to estimate that the airspeed velocity of an unladen European Swallow is 10 meters per second.

        (© http://style.org/unladenswallow)

        1. PNGuinn
          Boffin

          Re: Swallows...

          Sod all that complicated maths stuff - why not just use a sheep in a vacuum?

          1. maffski

            Re: Swallows...

            You can fit more in a spherical cow.

          2. Peter Simpson 1
            Happy

            Re: Swallows...

            a sheep in a vacuum?

            I tried. They plug up the hose.

          3. macjules
            Coat

            Re: Swallows...

            Would that be a baa-gless vacuum?

  8. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Given that legally, the drone operator *must* maintain direct unaided visual contact with the drone, the operator might as well just leave the flying toy in the van and deliver the parcel themselves.

    1. AndyS

      "Given that legally... blah blah blah..."

      And given that legally all horseless carriages must have a man walk in front of them with a bell, to inform pedestrians that they are coming, the car will obviously never catch on.

      Because obviously laws never change.

    2. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

      "the drone operator *must* maintain direct unaided visual contact"

      I wonder how the military get around that without getting arrested?

  9. Zog_but_not_the_first
    Black Helicopters

    Postman Pat

    Vs. the Red Baron

    1. Old69

      Re: Postman Pat

      ...and Snoopy?

  10. Pat 11

    Adds a whole new meaning to interception

    Aren't scallies going to pluck these out of the sky with home made net guns?

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Adds a whole new meaning to interception

      And if those fail they'll load up the 10gauge with buckshot and let fly.

      What License?

      That are thousands of unlicensed shoutguns in the hands of country folk. The Police know that and often where they are but leave them alone as long as they are used for a bit of local sport. i.e Kill the fox that tries to ravage their hens and the like.

      These flying things will become a welcome target for the local hotshots is some parts of the country.

      Doome I tell ye, doomed.

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