back to article Weight, what? The perfect kilogram is nearly in Planck's grasp

One of the standards world's toughest nuts, how to redefine the kilogram in terms of universal constants, is close to being resolved – unless a Russian experiment in 2017 throws a spanner in the works. That's exciting for standards boffins, since it means anyone can have an accurate kilogram without having to trek to Paris for …

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  1. Kaltern

    Well it's been a long weight, but on balance the results should measure up perfectly.

    1. Primus Secundus Tertius

      That guy sure torques the talk.

  2. Dwarf

    Heavy science

    At least it will be a weight off everyone's mind when they have finished

    1. Tim Jenkins

      Re: Heavy science

      Bah; trivia. What we really need to know is, exactly how thick is a Planck?

      1. hammarbtyp

        Re: Heavy science

        Also what colour should it be...

      2. Mage Silver badge
        Boffin

        Re: Heavy science

        We do know the length of a Planck.

        Could we thus call the Planck Interval, the thickness?

        They do claim: "there is no reason to believe that exactly one unit of Planck time has any special physical significance"

        and

        "There is currently no proven physical significance of the Planck length; it is, however, a topic of theoretical research. Since the Planck length is so many orders of magnitude smaller than any current instrument could possibly measure, there is no way of examining it directly."

        Possibly nothing smaller can be measured, no matter how good instruments get, unless someone invents an Heisenberg Compensator.

        1. Omgwtfbbqtime

          Re: "...unless someone invents an Heisenberg Compensator."

          I'm uncertain whether that is possible.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: "...unless someone invents an Heisenberg Compensator."

            "I'm uncertain whether that is possible."

            Certainly is! I've got one right here in this box...

          2. Electron Shepherd

            Re: "...unless someone invents an Heisenberg Compensator."

            I'm uncertain whether that is possible.

            Right not, I agree with you, or to put it another way:

            "At the moment, that's my position"

            1. Omgwtfbbqtime

              Re: "...unless someone invents an Heisenberg Compensator."

              Are you certain you wouldn't like to put some spin on it?

        2. ian 22
          Pirate

          Re: Heavy science

          Arr, we'll all walk the Planck, and wish it were longer than it be!

        3. John Brown (no body) Silver badge
          Coat

          Re: Heavy science

          They do claim: "there is no reason to believe that exactly one unit of Planck time has any special physical significance"

          Correct. You need two short Plancks for significance.

      3. Scubaman66

        Re: Heavy science

        A standard plank is 6 x 2 x whatever length so depending on the orientation it could be 2 or 6 or an infinitely variable number.

      4. Scubaman66

        Re: Heavy science

        Or alternatively it is 0.25 X the thickness of a climate change expert.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Heavy science

      "At least it will be a weight off everyone's mind when they have finished"

      Lucky my old physics teacher is unlikely to be reading this ... as otherwise he'd be shouting "Unit! Unit! You nit!" at you while probably dispatching a well aimed piece of chalk in your direction. The kilogram measures mass and not weight!

      1. Cynical Observer

        Re: Heavy science

        So physics teachers all over the world would be suffering mass hysteria at such comments?

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Heavy science

        "Lucky my old physics teacher is unlikely to be reading this ... as otherwise he'd be shouting "Unit! Unit! You nit!" at you while probably dispatching a well aimed piece of chalk in your direction. The kilogram measures mass and not weight!"

        ...yet is presently defined by a weight.

        I fancy your old master would thoroughly approve of OP and his chalk would be flying towards gay Paris.

        1. jonathanb Silver badge

          Re: Heavy science

          No the reference kilogramme will weigh a different number of Newtons depending on where you do the measurement, but it will always be 1kg of mass.

        2. Patrick Moody

          Re: Heavy science

          The kilogram(kg) is not a measure of weight. The Newton(N) is.

          "...yet is presently defined by a weight."

          The weight (object) you refer to has a mass of exactly one kilogram, since it is the reference for that. It will still have that same mass, wherever it happens to be.

          On Earth's surface, the weight (force of gravity) of a weight (object) with a mass of 1kg will be approximately 9.81N give-or-take depending where and when you measure it.

  3. mikecoppicegreen

    So - it's about balancing one's spheres on a length of 4 by 2??? Maybe.

  4. Anonymous Coward
    Joke

    Sorry, but Russia is going to define kilogram in reference to Putin mass

    Rumors says that the Russian Academy of Science will soon be asked to redefine all standards in terms of Putin dimensions. Thereby the meter will shrink to ensure Putin is 4.5 metres tall, while the kilogram will be larger to ensure he's light as a butterfly. Time will also be redefines so he's still in his twenties.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Joke

      Re: Sorry, but Russia is going to define kilogram in reference to Putin mass

      > while the kilogram will be larger to ensure he's light as a butterfly

      Ridiculous! The kilogram will be made much smaller so he can bench press 700 kg.

  5. Mike Taylor

    So what if they disagree - a discussion is a good thing in science

    Just don't call it a mass debate.

  6. meanioni

    What does this mean for the "Olympic Swimming Pool/Double Decker bus" standards?

    Does this mean these will be reduced to mathematical equations as well? :-O

    1. Chemist

      Re: What does this mean for the "Olympic Swimming Pool/Double Decker bus" standards?

      "What does this mean for the "Olympic Swimming Pool/"

      As the pool is filled with essentially water it could be defined in moles

      1. Stumpy

        Re: What does this mean for the "Olympic Swimming Pool/Double Decker bus" standards?

        "... it could be defined in moles"

        So, sort of like my garden then?

      2. PNGuinn
        Coat

        Re: What does this mean for the "Olympic Swimming Pool/Double Decker bus" standards?

        "As the pool is filled with essentially water it could be defined in moles"

        As opposed to non essentially water??

        Why moles? are they aquatic?

        How about kippers??

        And BACON.

        Thanks - the one with a map of Friday in the pocket.

        NURSE!

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: What does this mean for the "Olympic Swimming Pool/Double Decker bus" standards?

          moles ARE aquatic, my wife has fished two out of the swimming pool! I was amazed, but they CAN swim.

          For those interested, there are several youtube videos of them swimming quite well.

          1. CrazyOldCatMan Silver badge

            Re: What does this mean for the "Olympic Swimming Pool/Double Decker bus" standards?

            > moles ARE aquatic, my wife has fished two out of the swimming pool! I was amazed,

            > but they CAN swim.

            The ones I generally see can't. Probably because they are missing major body parts (like the body) with delicate cat-gnasher marks on the remains..

            1. Eddy Ito
              Joke

              Re: What does this mean for the "Olympic Swimming Pool/Double Decker bus" standards?

              with delicate cat-gnasher marks on the remains.

              Excellent! You've just proven we can now determine the mass of a cat by counting how many moles are in them.

              1. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

                Re: What does this mean for the "Olympic Swimming Pool/Double Decker bus" standards?

                "Excellent! You've just proven we can now determine the mass of a cat by counting how many moles are in them."

                Furrets Last Theorem depends on modular moles?

        2. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Essentially water

          Well some of it is chlorine. And with use, urea is often added.

          1. Trigonoceps occipitalis

            Re: Essentially water

            "And with use, urea is often added."

            So not like a VW then.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: What does this mean for the "Olympic Swimming Pool/Double Decker bus" standards?

      No relationship as one measurement is volumetric and the other is mass.

  7. This post has been deleted by its author

    1. harmjschoonhoven
      Angel

      Re: Pray all goes well.

      But should we make te sign of the cross in the traditional Russian Orthodox way with two fingers or with three fingers as introduced by Patriach Nikon in the 1650's?

      1. Rich 11

        Re: Pray all goes well.

        When it comes to matters of religion I generally favour a two-finger sign.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          @Rich 11

          Allow me to bless you my son

  8. rhydian

    But what effect will this have on the Jub?

    Will we have to reconvene the Standards Soviet?

    http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/10/28/additional_reg_standards/

    http://www.theregister.co.uk/Design/page/reg-standards-converter.html

  9. Your alien overlord - fear me

    Should the Irish be involved if we want to measure 2 short Planck's?

    1. Sir Runcible Spoon
      Meh

      The 70's called - they want their joke book back

      1. TeeCee Gold badge

        http://xkcd.com/1072/

        1. CrazyOldCatMan Silver badge

          > http://xkcd.com/1072/

          Some people know far too much about xkcd for their own sanity.. (I should know - my nephew is one of them!)

  10. Sir Runcible Spoon
    Paris Hilton

    Sir

    It's all very well working out how to measure the mass of an object, but what about how much it weighs?

    Are they taking gravitational fluctuations into account when creating these spheres?

  11. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    At the end of the day, what's the point?

    1. Cynical Observer
      Coat

      I think you'll find that with spheres - there isn't one.

      1. Trigonoceps occipitalis

        I think you'll find that with spheres - there isn't one.

        Its OK, my dog Arrow has one.

        (One "attaboy" to anyone who knows the cultural reference.)

        1. Mike Moyle

          Re: I think you'll find that with spheres - there isn't one.

          Hey... You don't have to have a point to have a point!

    2. Ugotta B. Kiddingme

      "At the end of the day, what's the point?"

      it's right there, on back of your head.

  12. Yugguy

    Weight a minute!

    Someone needs to tell the purveyor of the shonky unbranded 10kg weight plates I bought that were actually 9Kg.

    Ah well, they was cheep.

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