back to article Windows 10 is due in one month: Will it be ready?

The release of Windows 10 is set for 29 July, just one month from now. It will be a significant moment, marking the first Windows 10 release in a wave that will eventually include Windows Mobile and Xbox, and is critically important to Microsoft following the poor reception for Windows 8. This time, Microsoft is not following …

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  1. depicus
    Black Helicopters

    No, it's nowhere near ready but like most software nowadays it's release and patch.

    1. Bob Vistakin
      Facepalm

      Correct. Automatically pushing this beta to end users with no way back is stupid beyond belief. With the loathsome Windows 8.x, it needed someone with at least some tech knowledge to manage the "upgrade". The support problems on even the slightest failure will make the Win8/Vista problems seem like a summer picnic. Think of the skill level of ordinary home users, not Reg readers. Most would be pushed to even tell you what version of Windows they are running.

      1. Archaon
        Coat

        huh?

        Automatically pushed? It's an opt-in system where users choose whether to install it. Also the 8.1 upgrade was as easy as installing an app from the store (albeit a very large app). Unless something went wrong (just like any other upgrade/patch process can go wrong) the 8.1 pack needed precisely bugger all technical knowledge to install.

        Admittedly I would prefer a little more caution on Microsoft's part with this release. But the level of most users that you mention is why they're doing it - so that they actually get people onto the platform. A window that says "Look! New shinies for free!" has a good chance of getting your average home user to upgrade. An advert for a £150 retail disc or a slightly faster or slimmer new PC won't.

        Getting my coat so that I can go and hide in the downvote-bomb-proof bunker -->

        1. Rdad

          Re: huh?

          +1 for the excellent "precisely bugger all technical knowledge to install"

          1. Death Boffin
            Coat

            Re: huh?

            I thought "bugger all" was one of the install options...

        2. jelabarre59

          Re: huh?

          > Also the 8.1 upgrade was as easy as installing an app from the store (albeit a very large app).

          Yeah, well I don't so much care for the monolithic upgrade path MSWin provides. On Linux Mint it's a lot more modular, and you can continue using your system while dist-upgrade proceeds in the background. And far easier to recover and pick up the upgrade when you encounter problems.

          1. Cynic_999

            Re: huh?

            "

            On Linux Mint it's a lot more modular, and you can continue using your system while dist-upgrade proceeds in the background. And far easier to recover and pick up the upgrade when you encounter problems.

            "

            I suggest that the average home user would not know what modules to upgrade, and if the system borks after an upgrade would not have a clue how to recover. I'm reasonably computer-literate, but when a Linux machine refused to complete a boot following the installation of a graphics driver update, I gave up after spending 2 hours trying to revert it back to a working system.

          2. hoverboy

            Re: huh?

            Except that dist-upgrade is just like regular windows updates. W8 to W8.1 is more like 'do-release-upgrade', which even on Ubuntu is hit and miss at best. I always save myself the heartache and do a clean install every two years at LTS.

        3. Richard Lloyd

          Re: huh?

          "Also the 8.1 upgrade was as easy as installing an app from the store (albeit a very large app)."

          8.1 was really a service pack for 8, so it was very mystifying why it never appeared in Windows Update, which is surely where it belonged? I ran Classic Shell on 8 (which anyone with any sanity would do on a desktop), so never even had a store icon in the first place (trying to find the store in that scenario was "fun"). When I went to the store on the release day of 8.1 (and it had been definitely launched, including in the UK) and searched for "Windows 8.1", it found nothing!

          Instead, I Googled around (ever tried a search on the MS site...you'll know why Google is your friend) and eventually found the *5* large separate KB downloads (nope, I've no idea why MS didn't have a single offline installer for the 8.1 update..another stupid decision). Got those installed and - voila - 8.1 finally turned up. Not as easy as it sounds then!

        4. Bob Dole (tm)

          Re: huh?

          >> Also the 8.1 upgrade was as easy as installing an app from the store (albeit a very large app).

          You mean that upgrade which MS told a large number of people that they had to download the 8.1 update, do a safe boot then manually run the update? Sure...

          http://www.networkworld.com/article/2226753/microsoft-subnet/how-users-are-fixing-windows-8-1-update-install-problems.html

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Think of the budget level of ordinary home users

        The big unknown:

        Faced with a failed upgrade and a borked machine how many home users will opt for a new tablet (or phone) instead of paying the ransom to get their old technology PC fixed (only to discover that Redmond has borked their trusty Win 7 operating system).

        1. Archaon

          Re: Think of the budget level of ordinary home users

          I would say that the big unknown is actually statistics on how many of these upgrades actually fail. I suspect that in reality it's a very low number.

          I'd also be interested to see that failure as a percentage relative to the number of users and compared to similar failures on other operating systems.

          1. a_yank_lurker

            Re: Think of the budget level of ordinary home users

            I think the bigger issue is when enough people have borked systems, say ~1% it will a PR disaster. Most people will end up spending a lot of money and someone's time and effort to fix the mess. A complete W7 install with software, maybe 2 hrs minimum and possibly much worse.

            1. Ian Yates

              Re: Think of the budget level of ordinary home users

              I would imagine ~1% of failures would be considered a success, albeit one with a fair amount of noise.

              If you think of the user-base numbers involved, ~1% is damnably good. I would expect closer to 5%. Although, enough safeguards in the installer should reduce "borked" installs to just "failed" (no effect), which will probably make that figure even higher.

      3. Al Black

        I like Win 8

        I actually liked Win 8.0, and was disappointed at the back-down in 8.1. Even without a touch screen it was good after the first 15 minutes of floundering around the new OS and working things out. I don't know why most people hated it. It was the best OS ever.

    2. Ged T

      Infrastructure readiness?

      Is the, particularly UK, broadband infrastructure going to have the capacity to upgrade all the qualifying Win 7 and the relatively few Win 8.1 machines to Windows 10?

      1. TheVogon

        Re: Infrastructure readiness?

        "Is the, particularly UK, broadband infrastructure going to have the capacity to upgrade all the qualifying Win 7 and the relatively few Win 8.1 machines to Windows 10?"

        Probably. Microsoft has some neat peer to peer technology in that space:

        http://www.forbes.com/sites/antonyleather/2015/03/16/windows-10-to-use-bittorrent-style-p2p-to-deliver-updates/

        Presumably they have learnt something from the speed at which their latest ISOs are pirated....

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      "Windows 10 is due in one month: Will it be ready?"

      I am running build 10149 on a couple of laptops and it's pretty much RTM ready now. From here on in it's just about polishing it up as much as they can before release.

      Windows Mobile 10 is a bit behind - but that is not being released until later in the year. The current "fast" preview is now quite usable though (10136 I think). This is the first phone build that I would say is suitable for widespread beta testing.

      1. hoverboy

        This, exactly. On the desktop it's already perfectly useable; it's only the TOS (keylogging) that prevent me from using it for real, paying, work. Even the mobile is useable at the latest build, although I've only got it on my spare phone (925) not _quite_ ready to put it on the daily 930. The rate of improvement has been huge though over the last couple of builds.

      2. Asok Asus

        Sample Size of One

        Well, now that we know Windows 10 works for you, it's totally obvious it's going to work flawlessly on all other PCs, everyone of which has a different hardware and software configuration that's different from yours and from each others.

      3. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Working for the dark side

        is no way to go through life.

    4. Skippy12

      Release and patch...

      Actually, the original article had it wrong. You don't wait for the first service pack. With Microsoft OS, you wait for the next version to be released, then the previous one is probably OK and has the ^&*( patched out of it.

    5. Software-corps lying often about readiness of their software/s

      Is there not a consumer-protection-law, protecting consumers against i.e. unfinished, broken, faulty/buggy software?

      As far as I can see, those software-corp/s are getting their software tested by their customers and those corp/s getting practically paid in advance + free-of-charge testing through customers.

      Those software-corp/s should have to provide proof that their software/s is/are ready for release.

      Everything else is/are lies, which should also be criminalised under the law.

    6. Anonymous Coward
      Mushroom

      Re: No, it's nowhere near ready

      100% agreed here. I've been diligently installing Windows 10 every single time a new ISO build is released and it's buggy beyond belief. Two months ago I've already been telling my contacts that I absolutely do not see how Microsoft is going to be able to release Windows 10 as a stable OS by their targeted launch date. And now with only a month to go my worries and concerns are amplified.

      Even as of the latest build the Start Menu seemingly goes AWOL every single time our planets aren't aligned to its liking and issuing a reboot does not actually resolve the problem most of the time.

      I've also been running into a problem whereby opening a new Explorer window would spawn 2-4 instances and I eventually narrowed it down to the "Launch folder windows in a separate process" feature in Windows 10 being bugged. Out of habit I've always checked this option since as long as I can remember it being around as it used to help keep other windows open shall one crash.

      Then comes the Start Menu itself. If and when it does decide to work I still feel that it's too damned clunky for its own good. The "All Programs" menu in Windows 7 is compact and worked well in displaying dozens of applications without much scrolling. The "All Apps" menu in Windows 10 with its huge font and crevices between objects requires scrolling after merely ten apps.

      Now I get Microsoft is trying to force users to use its bloody search feature to navigate the operating system but the problem with that is that you cannot always remember what it is you are looking for.

      My biggest beef however is the whole concept of "apps." Namely "universal apps." Microsoft has been touting this "apps" crap since Windows 8 and with Windows 10 the idea is to write one app which works on your desktop, tablet and phone. Sounds good in theory if you ignore the fact that each device has vastly different user interface requirements.

      The net problem is that many developers (including Microsoft themselves) write their apps to be compliant with the lowest common denominator (read: phone) and we end up with a fucking oversized Fisher Price interface when used on a desktop with font sizes varying from 24-48 and the need to scroll in every imaginable direction to get the most minute of tasks accomplished.

      Another beef I have is that these apps are forced down your throat when you install Windows 10 whether you like it or not. I hate this. Does it really take much effort to add a "Customize Installation" button in the Windows installer? I don't have a problem with Windows being so easy to install that spamming "Next" is all you need to do. But does some level of pre-installation customization hurt?

      Sure I can issue a single Powershell command to deal with these apps. But is that really necessary?

      I've sincerely been trying to love Windows 10 because I do believe in the architectural benefits Windows 10 has to offer. Not easy. Not in its current state. I see what Microsoft is trying to do by "standardizing" the Windows experience with "apps." By trying to accomplish a unified look and feel between Windows and third party "apps." This however assumes that the basic interface is kosher.

      And it is not.

  2. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Hard to say

    There's a lot in build 10130 that still needs fixing and until the majority of the testing serfs (Insiders) get to properly play with an updated build we won't know for sure if they're anything like on target.

    1. illiad

      Re: Hard to say

      and build 10130 it a month or TWO old!!! 10147 can be d/led from many NON-MS sites, it looks far better...

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Hard to say

        I know 10130 is an old build now and that there are others that can be obtained by non-official routes, but that means that the majority of Insiders still won't have seen the latest - even if you and others think it's better.

        The problem is the clear difference in opinion that has been evident all along - what does 'better' mean?

  3. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Not every "home" user is a "consumer" user only.

    Someone at Microsoft, starting from Nadella, is utterly unable to understand the whole "IT world". Driven by fashion only, reading too much press without a clue for IT, that dictates now IT is "consumer driven" because of the large number of smartphones in the hands of true lusers (including most of those journalists without a clue about IT...), do they now want to force every user outside a corporate LAN into a "consumer" OS? There are not a few people for whom their "home" PCs are still working tools, and need to be stable as much as their "work" counterparts. They may not like to become forced beta testers. I'm afraid Nadella took the idea of the caste system of his native country, and it's trying to apply it to Windows users... and well, I don't like it at all...

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Not every "home" user is a "consumer" user only.

      "There are not a few people for whom their "home" PCs are still working tools, and need to be stable as much as their "work" counterparts"

      In net terms my home IT (W8.1 Update + Classic Shell) is substantially faster, more stable and more useable than my enterprise IT (W7). Admittedly there's only a minor stability difference between the clients (which in my experience favours 8.1 Update), but when you throw in all the rest of the joys and benefits that "professional support" in enterprise has, any intelligent home user probably doesn't know how lucky they are.

      The interface of 8 and offspring is still a mess. But as an OS, in all round terms it's the best that Microsoft have ever offered. I was going to say "but that's not saying much", and then thought that the fractalised Linux distros are hardly something to write home about, and there's a long list of known issues within the kernel. Likewise Apple OS - an impressive marketing achievement rather than a technical one.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Not every "home" user is a "consumer" user only.

        The issue is not the OS kernel or the UI - it's being forced to accept each and every update MS decides it needs to test. It would be an issue for 7 or 8.x as well.

        I've some expensive hardware connected to my home PC, and even before moving to 10 I need to ensure it works, or I may not upgrade as long as 7 is supported, and the hardware still works and doesn't need replacement. And if it works, the last thing I want is some update making it stop working.

        1. conan

          Re: Not every "home" user is a "consumer" user only.

          "if it works, the last thing I want is some update making it stop working"

          This is why botnets exist, which cost the world an awful lot of money. It's important to keep up to date with security fixes. I agree they should be separated where possible, but sometimes a piece of code just has to be refactored to fix flaws in it, and you need an update to a component.

          The best way to do this is as fast as possible, keeping the updates as small as possible.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        @Ledswinger - Re: Not every "home" user is a "consumer" user only.

        You (nah, not you personally) actively chose Linux or Mac while Windows is being shoved down your throat. Did you notice there isn't nay "Thanks, but no thanks!" button on the Windows 10 nagging "reserve your copy of Win10" screen ? Each time a "superior" product is being shoved like this to me it brings me memories on how the ancient communist system was working long time ago in a far, far away country.

        Oh, and if Linux diversity overwhelms you, then I pity you for each time you have to buy shoes, clothing, a car and anything that requires some choice. I'm sure a large uniform mass of people all dressed up in blue buttoned-up working clothes riding bicycles and living in identical houses would make you feel at ease.

        1. Terry 6 Silver badge

          Re: @Ledswinger - Not every "home" user is a "consumer" user only.

          AC

          Rubbish.

          shoes/clothing, even to some degree cars are on display before you buy, have a standard interface, and a small number of standard components.

          Choices are limited and simple.

          Shoes: Laces/slip-on (with Velcro for the Linux users).

          Shirts; Long sleeve/short sleeve (With a double cuff for the Linux users)

          Cars Petrol/diesel (With LPG for the Linux users)

          And so on.

    2. Michael Habel

      Re: Not every "home" user is a "consumer" user only.

      1. The removal of Patch Tuesdays so whoops OUR BAD! If something breaks... At least we'll have it fixed before we ship it to Enterprise!

      2. Windows as a Service... Perhaps the BIGGEST SERVICE ON THE WEB.... Yeah.. No! See Point 1.

      3. Please try out our new App Store where you can buy your W2k Theme(s), for only $19.95(USD), AMEX, and Visa accepted! This is where MicroSoft really want to herd us down into, and I for One won't stand for it!

      Is there even just One really tangible thing about Windows OSX that redeems the rest?! Besides the imminent threat that Security Updates for Windows 7 might get pushed up from its 01.14.20 expiry date?! Just One... And Windows 8.x'ers need not mention the return of the Start Menu (Button).... It never left me long enough to crave something as awful as WinOSX.

      Which is actually starting to sound a bit like where they were with XP the whole time, But with a (hopefully to them), money spinning crApp Store inside of it.

  4. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    "for the supported lifetime of the device"

    So now, Windows analyses what type of device it is installed on, and stops installing updates once it detects that the device is no longer supported - perhaps depending on the contract it had with the OEM?

    Previously, at least everyone on Windows 7 had the same end-of-support date.

    With Windows 10, will you even know at purchase time how long your device is supported for?

    1. dogged

      Re: "for the supported lifetime of the device"

      > So now, Windows analyses what type of device it is installed on, and stops installing updates once it detects that the device is no longer supported - perhaps depending on the contract it had with the OEM?

      Oh look, FUD.

      No. It just means you can't buy a £50 7" tablet and then transfer the license to your desktop.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: "for the supported lifetime of the device"

        You could never do that - OEM licenses are always tied to the device they're installed to - but I bought a full retail copy of Windows 7 Ultimate which I can actually move from an old PC from a new one. I bought a more expensive retail copy exactly for that reason, because I need to upgrade only when I'm sure everything I need to use works without issues - and be able to transfer the license from one PC to another if I need.

      2. Paul Shirley

        Re: "for the supported lifetime of the device"

        @dogged: completely ignoring the observation that they remembered to add 'supported' this time. Not 'lifetime' but 'supported lifetime' - they don't have the same meaning.

        More honest but most of us assumed they had no intention of Win10 actually having perpetual support on anything or even guaranteed support for the actual life of your OEM licensed device.

        Still nothing there guaranteeing all support will be covered by my prepaid licence, not hidden in the store as a paid option.

      3. illiad

        Re: "for the supported lifetime of the device" £50 tablet?

        What do you *think* when you are a cheapskate???

        DO watch out for "windows with bing" - it is a cheap version that is NOT upgradeable!!

        1. Youngdog

          "windows with bing" - it is a cheap version that is NOT upgradeable!!

          Really? I know people have seen some technical issues when trying because of OS Loader/Storage problems but I'm pretty sure you will qualify for a licence if you can get it working

        2. Boothy

          Re: "for the supported lifetime of the device" £50 tablet?

          @ illiad

          Quote: "DO watch out for "windows with bing" - it is a cheap version that is NOT upgradeable!!"

          You'd best tell MS then, as according to MS it is upgradable :

          ---snip---

          From Edition : Windows 8.14

          To Edition : Windows 10 Home

          4Also applies to Windows 8.1 country specific editions, Windows 8.1 Single Language, Windows 8.1 with Bing.

          ---snip---

          Taken from https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/windows-10-specifications

          1. Paul Shirley

            Re: "for the supported lifetime of the device" £50 tablet?

            The network PVR I built last week on top of Win8.1 with Bing seems to think it's authorised for the upgrade... it's also imaged so I can revert if it all goes horribly wrong ;)

        3. Bluto Nash
          Thumb Down

          Re: "for the supported lifetime of the device" £50 tablet?

          Strange, then, that my recently purchased Zotac box with "Win 8.1 with Bing" is advertising my ability to reserve a copy of Win 10 via the systray icon?

      4. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: "for the supported lifetime of the device"

        If Windows 10 is going to be a rolling-updates OS, does this mean there will never be Windows 11?

        If so, it's clear they can't support all hardware forever; the question then is how long they will support any particular device, and they could drop it at any time.

        If not, and you bought your machine with Windows 10, then it would be expected that you may or may not be able to run Windows 11 on it. But then, that's pretty much the same as today.

      5. jelabarre59

        Re: "for the supported lifetime of the device"

        > Oh look, FUD. No. It just means you can't buy a £50 7" tablet and then transfer the license to your desktop.

        I think AC was suggesting that MS and a lot of the manufacturers would *really* like it if they could move past "planned obsolescence" and move straight on to "forced obsolescence".

      6. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        @dogged - Re: "for the supported lifetime of the device"

        How about a retail copy that I install in a virtual machine ? Can you ask you Microsoft masters how long will they support it ?

  5. JDX Gold badge

    How much control/flexibility over the free W10 download?

    I'm up for a free OS but not for auto-updating my PC and not having a way to re-install if things go bad.

    I know I get some choice when the W10 installation is performed but does anyone know if the 3Gb download can be saved to a DVD/USB stick as a backup in case things go wrong? Historically, you could often do a clean install even with upgrade-only media IIRC.

    1. Andy Non Silver badge

      Re: How much control/flexibility over the free W10 download?

      I don't know but I hope so. Windows 8.1 update stopped working on one of my laptops last year, and now it just gives a useless error number, so if Win 10 isn't available as an installable download that computer is well and truly stuffed.

      1. jelabarre59

        Re: How much control/flexibility over the free W10 download?

        > Win 10 isn't available as an installable download that computer is well and truly stuffed

        No, you can just download a repair/recovery disk from here..... http://www.linuxmint.com/download.php <G>

    2. WonkoTheSane
      Headmaster

      Re: How much control/flexibility over the free W10 download?

      "Does anyone know if the 3Gb download can be saved to a DVD/USB stick as a backup in case things go wrong?"

      Looks like it.

      "With Windows 10, you can create your own recovery media and back up the pristine state of the operating system and preinstalled software. If things go wrong and you are unable to refresh or reset your device successfully, you can boot the device using recovery media and reset to the prior pristine state."

      Source:-

      http://blogs.windows.com/bloggingwindows/2015/03/16/how-windows-10-achieves-its-compact-footprint/

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